Davy Crockett vs Welfare

[S.J.]

This should be required reading in our public schools.

Davy Crockett vs. Welfare

 

[Dutch]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

 

[S.J.]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

Well, take another 5 minutes and check again because Crockett was elected in 1826, not 1827. You haven't debunked a fucking thing. Besides that, you missed the entire point, whether the story is completely true or not.

 

[Dutch]

So you can make up a quote and attribute it to any historical figure that fits your agenda and that's okay?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Davy Crockett supported amnesty and gay marriage. Rachel Maddow told me.

 

[DiamondDave]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

Uhhh.. actually not debunked at all... it is questioned by a biographer in modern times.... it is a contradicting OPINION as to whether the speech was given

But nice try

 

[S.J.]

Liberals trying to rewrite history again.

 

[Dutch]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

Uhhh.. actually not debunked at all... it is questioned by a biographer in modern times.... it is a contradicting OPINION as to whether the speech was given

But nice try

I think I'll take the word of the executive director of the Tennessee historical society over a chain email and the author who specialized in dime novels.

 

[JoeB131]

This should be required reading in our public schools.

Davy Crockett vs. Welfare

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

 

[JoeB131]

So you can make up a quote and attribute it to any historical figure that fits your agenda and that's okay?

"90% of quotes on the Internet are made up."- Abraham Lincoln.

 

[there4eyeM]

And Benjamin Franklin said Jews should be expelled from the US!

I saw the letter on 'Stormfront'!

 

[rightwinger]

Why would we want the advice of an 19th century frontiersman on 21st century social issues?

 

[FA_Q2]

So the quote is a false one.

Refute the reasoning in it. The premise is strong even if the attribution is trash.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Why would we want the advice of an 19th century frontiersman on 21st century social issues?

Because A) it serves an agenda's purpose, and B) hey, it beats thinking!

 

[editec]

This should be required reading in our public schools.

Davy Crockett vs. Welfare

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

 

[JoeB131]

This should be required reading in our public schools.

Davy Crockett vs. Welfare

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Are you serious?

Let's be perfectly honest what happened. Americans moved to Texas, a territory of Mexico, decided they didn't like Mexico's laws, and started up an armed insurrection against them. One of the laws they didn't like was that slavery was illegal in Mexico.

(Seriously, Mexico banned slavery before we did. Ain't that embarrassing?)

Because of the ineptitude of Santa Ana, they won, but part of what they agreed to was not to join the United States and the southern border of their country was at a certain point. They didn't follow either of those agreements, so another war was fought.

The ironic thing. Mexicans are finally taking those territories back...

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Are you serious?

Let's be perfectly honest what happened. Americans moved to Texas, a territory of Mexico, decided they didn't like Mexico's laws, and started up an armed insurrection against them. One of the laws they didn't like was that slavery was illegal in Mexico.

(Seriously, Mexico banned slavery before we did. Ain't that embarrassing?)

Because of the ineptitude of Santa Ana, they won, but part of what they agreed to was not to join the United States and the southern border of their country was at a certain point. They didn't follow either of those agreements, so another war was fought.

The ironic thing. Mexicans are finally taking those territories back...

Can they take back The Republic of Texas? Please????

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Are you serious?

Let's be perfectly honest what happened. Americans moved to Texas, a territory of Mexico, decided they didn't like Mexico's laws, and started up an armed insurrection against them. One of the laws they didn't like was that slavery was illegal in Mexico.

(Seriously, Mexico banned slavery before we did. Ain't that embarrassing?)

Because of the ineptitude of Santa Ana, they won, but part of what they agreed to was not to join the United States and the southern border of their country was at a certain point. They didn't follow either of those agreements, so another war was fought.

The ironic thing. Mexicans are finally taking those territories back...

Can they take back The Republic of Texas? Please????

Why would they want Rick Perry?

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Are you serious?

Let's be perfectly honest what happened. Americans moved to Texas, a territory of Mexico, decided they didn't like Mexico's laws, and started up an armed insurrection against them. One of the laws they didn't like was that slavery was illegal in Mexico.

(Seriously, Mexico banned slavery before we did. Ain't that embarrassing?)

Because of the ineptitude of Santa Ana, they won, but part of what they agreed to was not to join the United States and the southern border of their country was at a certain point. They didn't follow either of those agreements, so another war was fought.

The ironic thing. Mexicans are finally taking those territories back...

Can they take back The Republic of Texas? Please????

Why would they want Rick Perry?

Perry can teach them how to execute people quicker. He's experimenting with electric bleachers, I hear................

 

[rightwinger]

This should be required reading in our public schools.

Davy Crockett vs. Welfare

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Killed a bear when he was three