Deal is done, Iran wins?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Iran does win

They give up a weapons program they never wanted to pay for anyway and get badly needed economic relief

Correct.

And with the sanctions ended the current government in Tehran will lose the political advantage to claim that 'the world is against Iran,' creating the possibility of more moderate governments in the future.

 

[nat4900]

The difference between Israel and Iran is this: If the enemies of Israel declared they wanted no trouble with Israel and stopped the constant terrorist attacks and pestering, Israel would be happy to ignore them.
If Israel declared to hamas and Iran that it had no qualm with them and would not attack.....theyd still try to kill the shit out of every jew they could.
It is hatred on a fundamental level.

Pretty much the same kind of fundamental hatred you have for Obama....See, you DO have something in common with the Iranians....

(BTW, the problem with Israel is NOT that they want to be left alone....period.....The problem is with Israel land-grab of Palestinian land and homes.....one of several definitions of apartheid.)

 

[nat4900]

How about because Israel has more than proved they can behave with their nuclear weapons? They've got more enemies than anyone, and have managed not decimate these other nations.

So given that "rationale", you'd have to ALSO bestow praises to South Korea and Pakistan, right?

 

[nat4900]

Funny... No mention of the four Americans the Iranians have been holding in that "framework..." They've had one for eight years or so now...


Huh... Guess they get to keep them...

Do you think that there may be even a remote chance that those folks were caught as spies.......What would you want done to Iranians who were caught spying within the US.......Besides, I would tend to bet that there were talks on releasing those 4.

 

[HUGGY]

Agreement reached on 'framework' for final Iran nuke deal...

Sanctions to be terminated...

No nuke sites closed...

Research and development to continue...

MORE...

Israel: 'Detached from reality'...

Capitulation, will give Iran 'military nuclear program'...

If you are an honest individual you must acknowledge that Iran was in check when Saddam Hussein was the leader of Iraq. The Bush's opened the door for Iran by destroying Iraq and getting Saddam hung. We brought this on ourselves with the simpletons we voted into the White House.

A nuclear Iran was totally avoidable if we had cut Saddam a little slack over Kuwaitt and not illegally invaded Iraq on the pretense they were harboring terrorists including the ridiculous idea that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

This is what happens when we elect moron presidents with war monger VP's.

But nary a one of you are honest are you.

 

[Adiodato]

How about because Israel has more than proved they can behave with their nuclear weapons? They've got more enemies than anyone, and have managed not decimate these other nations.

So given that "rationale", you'd have to ALSO bestow praises to South Korea and Pakistan, right?

I actually don't have a fundamental hatred of Obama, nor a hatred of any kind. Hatred is powerful, but I'll refrain from splitting hairs. I hold no party alliance so with any candidate that get's elected I always hope they do well, because well fuck, their success is ours. I'm simply disappointed in congress as well as Mr. Obama. He's had merits, and I've never ignored them. I just feel in my opinion his failures outweigh his beneficial acts.

As for Pakistan, the only reason they haven't layed nuclear waste to India is because India also has nuclear weapons and would vaporize them in return. My point there is that Iran has no nukes, Israel could nuke them without fear of nuclear retaliation from them.


The south Korea/North Korea situation is very complex, and I would grant each nation certain merits as well as certain demerits. Once again, it's a Mexican stand off. SK Pointed at NK, NK pointed at SK, the USA pointed at NK, and China pointed at us. So no, I wouldn't praise either nation based upon the same rationale.

 

[nat4900]

I agree and in all honesty ....the Muslim in the White House can not be trusted either.

Ooooops, you forgot to mention that Obama is a Kenyan........Don't you get points taken off and a reprimand issued to you by FOX???

 

[Adiodato]

Furthermore I'm sure I have things in common with Iranians, they are human beings after all, with thoughts and feelings. Don't jump to intolerant speculation based on my disapproval of their war policies. I disapprove of my own nations imperialistic expansionist tendencies as well.

 

[nat4900]

They will never let inspectors in to see the real nuclear plants

Its really great to have you right there sitting and snuggling with the Ayatollahs...Thank you for the minute-to-minute reporting.

 

[Jroc]

Agreement reached on 'framework' for final Iran nuke deal...

Sanctions to be terminated...

No nuke sites closed...

Research and development to continue...

MORE...

Israel: 'Detached from reality'...

Capitulation, will give Iran 'military nuclear program'...

If you are an honest individual you must acknowledge that Iran was in check when Saddam Hussein was the leader of Iraq. The Bush's opened the door for Iran by destroying Iraq and getting Saddam hung. We brought this on ourselves with the simpletons we voted into the White House.

A nuclear Iran was totally avoidable if we had cut Saddam a little slack over Kuwaitt and not illegally invaded Iraq on the pretense they were harboring terrorists including the ridiculous idea that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

This is what happens when we elect moron presidents with war monger VP's.

But nary a one of you are honest are you.

Iran was shiting their pants after we overthrew Saddam Hussein We could have gotten what we wanted from them at that time. Now Obama turns Iraq over to the mullahs ..."You can't make this stuff up"

 

[nat4900]

Furthermore I'm sure I have things in common with Iranians, they are human beings after all, with thoughts and feelings. Don't jump to intolerant speculation based on my disapproval of their war policies. I disapprove of my own nations imperialistic expansionist tendencies as well.

I have NO problems with a rationale response...like yours.....And I would just add that your criticism of Iran's "war policies" should be likewise extended to Israel.

Iran's nuclear prowess whether its implicit or real....or close to reality should be understood in context of their wish to gain parity with Israel's existing nukes....wouldn't it be great with Israel ALSO disarmed?

 

[lake avenue]

has it actually gone through now, or have they just agreed to keep talking?

 

[nat4900]

What we did to Iraq and Afghanistan has probably been the greatest driving factor behind Iran's nuclear program. They have a pretty nice country compared to the rest of the middle-east and have obviously put a lot of effort into becoming Westernized, If they can shed their nuke program and save face they stand to become economically powerful, that scares the GOP brass worse than any mere nuclear bomb.

Well stated....and let us not forget that Iran for many years was surrounded by our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan....our ships in the Gulf and her arch enemy (Israel) just a short flight from the south........Does ANY objective mind really blame Iran from being paranoid???

 

[Adiodato]

Furthermore I'm sure I have things in common with Iranians, they are human beings after all, with thoughts and feelings. Don't jump to intolerant speculation based on my disapproval of their war policies. I disapprove of my own nations imperialistic expansionist tendencies as well.

I have NO problems with a rationale response...like yours.....And I would just add that your criticism of Iran's "war policies" should be likewise extended to Israel.

Iran's nuclear prowess whether its implicit or real....or close to reality should be understood in context of their wish to gain parity with Israel's existing nukes....wouldn't it be great with Israel ALSO disarmed?

Yes but all things considered throughout history Israel is the lesser of two evils, not to mention our ally which has to count for something.

BUT I do think it would be wonderful if Israel dumped their nukes, but only because I think itd be great if everyone got rid of their nuclear weapons. Nukes are a very expensive way for a nation to wave it's dick around, and never help anything except ironically hold off nuclear war.

Unfortunately that's completely unrealistic.

Also, they don't just want parity, they want the mexican stand off situation aforementioned so they can host an invading force without fear of nuclear retaliation. They would probably never use them to detonate, but rather as a means to wage a war that would cost thousands of lives. Likely including American lives.

 

[Adiodato]

What we did to Iraq and Afghanistan has probably been the greatest driving factor behind Iran's nuclear program. They have a pretty nice country compared to the rest of the middle-east and have obviously put a lot of effort into becoming Westernized, If they can shed their nuke program and save face they stand to become economically powerful, that scares the GOP brass worse than any mere nuclear bomb.

Well stated....and let us not forget that Iran for many years was surrounded by our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan....our ships in the Gulf and her arch enemy (Israel) just a short flight from the south........Does ANY objective mind really blame Iran from being paranoid???

Not at all! They should be paranoid, their enemies are many! But building an arsenal isn't the way to create a lasting peace. Perhaps if they were more open to legitimate diplomacy they could make some friends. Instead they prefer shouting "fuck you!" and making a plethora of threats.

 

[nat4900]

Who's right wing, you?

No, no, my mistake..... you're actually the reincarnation of Mother Theresa's soul....

 

[nat4900]

Not at all! They should be paranoid, their enemies are many! But building an arsenal isn't the way to create a lasting peace. Perhaps if they were more open to legitimate diplomacy they could make some friends. Instead they prefer shouting "fuck you!" and making a plethora of threats.

Agreed.....but I believe that Iran does have "partners"....albeit fair-weather ones, in Russia and China....and, who knows, maybe these latest talks may make your wish for Iran to have "legitimate diplomacy" the beginning of something good.......Certainly if we acted belligerent such would never happen.

 

[HUGGY]

Agreement reached on 'framework' for final Iran nuke deal...

Sanctions to be terminated...

No nuke sites closed...

Research and development to continue...

MORE...

Israel: 'Detached from reality'...

Capitulation, will give Iran 'military nuclear program'...

If you are an honest individual you must acknowledge that Iran was in check when Saddam Hussein was the leader of Iraq. The Bush's opened the door for Iran by destroying Iraq and getting Saddam hung. We brought this on ourselves with the simpletons we voted into the White House.

A nuclear Iran was totally avoidable if we had cut Saddam a little slack over Kuwaitt and not illegally invaded Iraq on the pretense they were harboring terrorists including the ridiculous idea that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

This is what happens when we elect moron presidents with war monger VP's.

But nary a one of you are honest are you.

Iran was shiting their pants after we overthrew Saddam Hussein We could have gotten what we wanted from them at that time. Now Obama turns Iraq over to the mullahs ..."You can't make this stuff up"

Why was Iran "shitting their pants"? You are assuming we should have continued our illegal wars against the Iraqis and invaded Iran as well? What justification did we have to do that? We opened the doors for the religious leadership in Iran by overthrowing the elected leaders in Iran. We stupidly meddled with the CIA and created the void in Iran for the student take over that was then taken over by the Mullahs. Iran's leadership is a direct result of us screwing around in the Mid East just because we could. It was our own damned fault the students took the embassy workers hostage.

It amazes me how little the average American knows of the events of recent history and how difficult it is even for those that have the facts to stand up and tell the truth about what really happened. This is the most difficult thing as an American patriot to know what we have done and how some of us re write history to cover up our country's mistakes.

You are just a typical Jew apologist that only sees the world through Israeli tinted glasses. You should really just go live there and stop being a traitor to the USA. Most of the mistakes we have made in the region have had Israeli meddling at their foundations. I hold up the ridiculous installation of HAVING to defend Israel when Suddam invaded Kuwaitt to settle the score on the oil theft. Since there was NO GOOD REASON to defend the theiving Kuaittis all of a sudden the reason we were there was to defend Israel. What a steaming load of SHIT THAT WAS!!! A handfull of those stupid scud missles and poor little Israel pisses down their legs and can't defend themselves. Really? I am SO done with America getting embroiled in wars to defend the disgusting Jews.

 

[Adiodato]

Not at all! They should be paranoid, their enemies are many! But building an arsenal isn't the way to create a lasting peace. Perhaps if they were more open to legitimate diplomacy they could make some friends. Instead they prefer shouting "fuck you!" and making a plethora of threats.

Agreed.....but I believe that Iran does have "partners"....albeit fair-weather ones, in Russia and China....and, who knows, maybe these latest talks may make your wish for Iran to have "legitimate diplomacy" the beginning of something good.......Certainly if we acted belligerent such would never happen.

ehhh russia isnt really a huge fan of iran, Russia wants to drive the muslims out in order to restore their "racial/cultural" purity and hate westernization. Which as you mentioned before Iran is subject to. China for sure, but they would never directly engage the United States on their behalf. Probably just weapons/money. I hope your right, i'd much rather talk Iran off the ledge than push them over it. But ultimately it is up to them. Unless the powers that be botch it intentionally or otherwise.

 

[nat4900]

We must remember that Iran had little involvement in Israel's previous all-out wars with her Arab nations......Iran became much more belligerent and bellicose toward Israel when this latter country began slowly expanding her settlements and displacing Palestinians.

To support Israel is good policy...and if push came to shove I too support Israel....But my support is not blind and I know that there is much that Israel should be castigated for.....Currently Israel has more sanctions imposed by the UN than any other country and only the US veto power at the UN has prevented worse sanctions.