Debunking Keystone Pipeline Myths

[Rocko]

A few temporary jobs

About 20,000 well payed temporary jobs.

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

I was wrong. Politifact say 4000 jobs.
http://http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/31/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-would-mean-maybe-2000-jobs/

 

[chikenwing]

The whole story with the Keystone Pipeline is much more complex than you can discern from the news reports and the political rhetoric. Anyone who is interested should take 15 minutes and read the Wikipedia article, which is not political at all.

Plan B is for Canada to build a pipeline across the southern border to the West Coast of Canada. This will also create a lot of jobs for Americans.

It's really not a big deal, one way or another.

As for gas prices, the price of crude (ignoring the cost of transporting and refining for a moment) is determined by how much oil is available GLOBALLY, and has nothing to do with where the oil comes from or where it goes to.

The best way to understand it is to think of a giant swimming pool filled with crude oil. There are thousands of pipes pumping oil into the pool and thousands of pipes pumping oil out of the pool. The price of crude at any given time is more or less determined by the level of oil in the pool. Where the pipes originate or go to is irrelevant.

As long as the Canadian oil is eventually consumed, it doesn't matter whether it is piped to Houston or the west coast of Canada.

Well other than tax receipts,and jobs here in the US . just little things like that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

About 20,000 well payed temporary jobs.

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

I was wrong. Politifact say 4000 jobs.
http://http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/31/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-would-mean-maybe-2000-jobs/

The State Dept says 42,100 jobs

“Including direct, indirect, and induced effects, the proposed Project would potentially support approximately 42,100 average annual jobs across the United States over a 1-to 2-year construction period …”

Draft Supplementary Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS)

By 2035, close to 117,000 jobs could be linked to the pipeline:

http://www.ceri.ca/images/stories/CERI Study 124.pdf

 

[Shaarona]

About 20,000 well payed temporary jobs.

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

Are you considering all the logistical, food, housing agencies etc... that will benefit from those "temporary" workers?

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

 

[tinydancer]

A few temporary jobs

About 20,000 well payed temporary jobs.

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

Well that pipeline covered half the distance over very different terrain and without union and environmental standards that are in place today in Canada and the USA. You just can't compare 1947 to the present day.

Our People, Our Culture

The $5.3-billion Keystone XL Pipeline Project is the largest infrastructure project currently proposed in the United States.

Construction of the 1,179-mile pipeline will require 9,000 skilled American workers. The project will provide jobs for welders, mechanics, electricians, pipefitters, laborers, safety coordinators, heavy equipment operators and other workers who rely on large construction projects for their livelihoods.

In addition to construction jobs, an estimated 7,000 U.S. jobs are being supported in manufacturing the steel pipe and the thousands of fittings, valves, pumps and control devices required for a major oil pipeline.

TransCanada has contracts with more than 50 suppliers across the U.S., including companies in Texas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Maryland, New York, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Ohio, Arkansas, Kansas, California and Pennsylvania.

TransCanada employed 4,844 Americans in Oklahoma and Texas on construction of the $2.3-billion Gulf Coast Pipeline Project, which is expected to be complete by the end of this year.

Construction and development of the Keystone XL and Gulf Coast Pipeline Projects is anticipated to generate $20 billion in economic impact in the United States, including $99 million in local government revenues and $486 million in state government revenues during construction.

The pipelines will also generate an estimated $5 billion in additional property taxes during their operational life.


Jobs & Economic Benefits | Keystone XL Pipeline

 

[TemplarKormac]

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

Are you considering all the logistical, food, housing agencies etc... that will benefit from those "temporary" workers?

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

You are a special kind of stupid aren't you?

Don't you think the surveyors tried to avoid those things when writing up the plans for it?

The State Department makes it clear it has no environmental impact. Time to acknowledge reality.

 

[TemplarKormac]

“The U.S. has made great strides toward energy independence, thanks to conservation efforts and an incredible boom in exploration for domestic oil and natural gas. A recent report from Citigroup projected the U.S. could become North American energy independent by 2020. That is, this nation could get all of its energy from the U.S. and Canada. … But those projections depend on the U.S. making the right decisions about supply and consumption. One of those decisions is approval of the Keystone pipeline.”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...dit-keystone-0329-jm-20130329,0,7507756.story

 

[tinydancer]

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

Are you considering all the logistical, food, housing agencies etc... that will benefit from those "temporary" workers?

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

So your dudes lived in "free tents" in 1947. The American workers on the pipeline with need food and housing and transportation all of which will jake up local economies that provide those services.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

NO.. LOLOL.. maybe 900 temp jobs.. If you can't build a pipeline without 20,000 workers.. you shouldn't be in the business.

TAPLINE only took 1200 and 900 of those were Arabs.

Are you considering all the logistical, food, housing agencies etc... that will benefit from those "temporary" workers?

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

Your 900 jobs estimate we know was a number you pulled out of your ass. It's obvious you have no experience and zero knowledge of pipeline construction.

The Trans-Alaska Pipeline was 800 miles long with a maximum capacity of 2.1 millions BPD at an estimated cost of 900 million but the actual cost was 8 billion dollars. It took 3 years, 2 months to complete. The maximum number of jobs was over 25,000, the minimum was 13,000. That's not taking into account the ancillary jobs, i.e. manufacturers, service workers, engineers, surveyors, occupational health and safety professionals, managers, teamsters, etc.

By contrast the XL Keystone pipeline is 1,179 miles long with a maximum capacity of 830,000 BPD with an estimated cost of 5.3 billion dollars with an estimated 2 year completion date. The actual cost and completion time will be much greater.

 

[Shaarona]

Are you considering all the logistical, food, housing agencies etc... that will benefit from those "temporary" workers?

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

So your dudes lived in "free tents" in 1947. The American workers on the pipeline with need food and housing and transportation all of which will jake up local economies that provide those services.

LOLOL, they had food, housing, recreation and schools.

Why don't you READ about TAPLINE? You are remarkably ignorant and resistant to learning a damned thing.

I used to fly TAPLINE with my dad in a Piper Cub.

There was NO "local economy" before TAPLINE............ No housing, no phones, no electricity, no roads.. You are dumb as a brick.

 

[tinydancer]

The State Department estimates that Keystone XL will create 42,000 direct and indirect jobs and inject $20 billion dollars into the U.S. economy.

In fact, the spinoff activity from Canadian oil sands projects is expected to reach $45 billion dollars per year while supporting nearly 465,000 jobs in the United States by 2035.


Pipelines creating jobs and opportunities | Keystone XL Pipeline

 

[tinydancer]

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

So your dudes lived in "free tents" in 1947. The American workers on the pipeline with need food and housing and transportation all of which will jake up local economies that provide those services.

LOLOL, they had food, housing, recreation and schools.

Why don't you READ about TAPLINE? You are remarkably ignorant and resistant to learning a damned thing.

I used to fly TAPLINE with my dad in a Piper Cub.

There was NO "local economy" before TAPLINE............ No housing, no phones, no electricity, no roads.. You are dumb as a brick.

I was being a smart ass because it is ludicrous to compare the two pipelines being built almost 70 years apart in two very different geographical locations.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

LOLOL. absolutely.. what do you think it took to build TAPLINE in a desert with zero infrastructure???

The US route is not devoid of motels, restaurants, roads, water etc.

The biggest problem TAPLINE had was that 5,000 Bedouin showed up with 25,000 camels and they all wanted water.

So your dudes lived in "free tents" in 1947. The American workers on the pipeline with need food and housing and transportation all of which will jake up local economies that provide those services.

LOLOL, they had food, housing, recreation and schools.

Why don't you READ about TAPLINE? You are remarkably ignorant and resistant to learning a damned thing.

I used to fly TAPLINE with my dad in a Piper Cub.

There was NO "local economy" before TAPLINE............ No housing, no phones, no electricity, no roads.. You are dumb as a brick.

You do realize that a lot has changed in the area of technology since the early 1950's. We have more accessibility to phones, roads, housing, electricity than the Arabian desert.

If I'm not mistaken, Tapline was an above ground pipeline which would require less equipment and manpower.

Anyhow, it's not comparable to the Keystone pipeline given the 70 some odd years in advancement and the first world economy verses a third world economy.

 

[BlindBoo]

Debunking 5 Keystone pipeline myths - The Week



1. Keystone will define Obama's legacy on climate change. The West Wing has a much different view: The real contributor to global warming is carbon emissions from coal-fired power plants, and the administration, through the Environmental Protection Agency, is using regulations to close scores of these polluters. Other power plants are quickly switching to natural gas, which still has a carbon footprint, but not nearly as bad as coal. Obama also likes to boast of doubling renewable energy and higher mileage standards for vehicles. Even if he were to approve Keystone (a final decision is still perhaps a year away), he'll try and trade it for something else the green crowd is clamoring for, perhaps an end to $4 billion in oil industry subsidies.

2. America needs Keystone's oil. We really don't. Production in the U.S. has surged to record levels on Obama's watch, while imports have fallen sharply. As recently as 2008, we imported 9.8 million barrels of oil a day, according to the Energy Information Administration. By 2012 that number had fallen to 8.5 million barrels. And we're now on track to pass Saudi Arabia as the world's top oil producer in the next two years or so — with or without Keystone.

3. Keystone's oil will be used here at home. This is one of the bigger canards. We're awash in gasoline now and can't use all have — which explains why refiners are exporting it by the boatload, literally. Refined products like gasoline and jet fuel are now one of America's biggest exports; we even send gasoline to the Middle East. Such exports have tripled in the last decade.

4. America needs Keystone because gasoline prices are at an all-time high. Sigh. Such ignorance. Gasoline prices (AAA national average) peaked in the United States at $4.11 in July 2008, six months before Obama became president. That's about $4.60 in today's dollars. But wasn't gasoline just $1.85 or so when Obama took over? Yes, because it plunged 55 percent as the U.S. economy collapsed in the fall of 2008. As the economy has recovered, restoring demand, prices have risen about 77 percent to Sunday's AAA average of $3.28.

5. Obama is to blame for gasoline prices. If you blame Obama for gasoline prices rising 77 percent in five years, then who do you blame for it rising 179 percent from 2002 to 2008? When George W. Bush took took office, Americans paid about $1.47 a gallon; by July 2008 it hit $4.11 (again, about $4.60 adjusted today for inflation).Oil and refined products like gasoline are global commodities; to suggest that any one man — be it Obama or Bush — can dictate prices is nonsense. It was disingenuous for Democrats to play the blame game then, and it's equally lame for Republicans to do so now.

Great post...

"by July 2008 it hit $4.11 (again, about $4.60 adjusted today for inflation). Is correct.

BUT the way this reads THAT's what was the remaining years of Bush's administration...
When in reality at the end of 2008-Dec 12/01 $1.870/ gallon.

In reality at the end of 2013-Dec $3.353 a 179% increase...
Weekly U.S. All Grades All Formulations Retail Gasoline Prices (Dollars per Gallon)

So the Bush recession not only crashed the housing market but also the gasoline market as well? Good catch.

Of course as soon as the economy started moving again and the glut of refined gas was sold, the price began to rise again.

http://www.randomuseless.info/gasprice/gasprice.txt

 

[bendog]

jmo, but the admin's decision seems to be based upon the canadian oil requiring more greenhouse gasses than "traditional" oil extraction. So, it becomes a political football. The dems want to hide the fact that their opposition is Goreish, and the gop wants to hide the fact that the pipeline won't make it cheaper to full your tank.

 

[chikenwing]

jmo, but the admin's decision seems to be based upon the canadian oil requiring more greenhouse gasses than "traditional" oil extraction. So, it becomes a political football. The dems want to hide the fact that their opposition is Goreish, and the gop wants to hide the fact that the pipeline won't make it cheaper to full your tank.

Not sure,but JOBS seem to be the prevalent theme in this tread,not fuel prices.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

jmo, but the admin's decision seems to be based upon the canadian oil requiring more greenhouse gasses than "traditional" oil extraction. So, it becomes a political football. The dems want to hide the fact that their opposition is Goreish, and the gop wants to hide the fact that the pipeline won't make it cheaper to full your tank.

Just how did the administration come to the conclusion that Canadian oil requires more greenhouse gasses than "traditional" oil extraction?

The GOP isn't arguing that it will drive down gas prices at the pump, we're arguing that it will created thousands of much needed jobs. However common wisdom is that when the supply is larger than the demand, prices will decrease.

 

[bendog]

jmo, but the admin's decision seems to be based upon the canadian oil requiring more greenhouse gasses than "traditional" oil extraction. So, it becomes a political football. The dems want to hide the fact that their opposition is Goreish, and the gop wants to hide the fact that the pipeline won't make it cheaper to full your tank.

Not sure,but JOBS seem to be the prevalent theme in this tread,not fuel prices.

LOL. There just aren't that many long term jobs. If the TPM wants a jobs program, how about fixing the damn interstates from NYC to Richmond, so you can drive the damn road at 50mph minimum.

 

[Wry Catcher]

America needs Keystone for the jobs. Period. End of story. Why is this so difficult to understand?

We need to build a pipeline to transport Canadian oil to Texas to be refined and sold on the world market, that will produce long term jobs in the U.S.? Seems more likely to produce profits for the power elite, put regular folks at risk and cheaper energy to Europe and Asia.

Here's an idea. Let's build pipelines from the Northern states to the Southwest and transport water to grow food in the arid desserts of the South. In doing so, and connecting pipelines to canals we can move goods cheaply among communities and the states, provide recreational activities along the way (kayak, canoe, fishing, lakes, camp grounds, etc.) and reduce the risk of floods and droughts.

 

[tinydancer]

jmo, but the admin's decision seems to be based upon the canadian oil requiring more greenhouse gasses than "traditional" oil extraction. So, it becomes a political football. The dems want to hide the fact that their opposition is Goreish, and the gop wants to hide the fact that the pipeline won't make it cheaper to full your tank.

Whoever promised cheaper gas is a fool. That's never been what Keystone has been about.whether it's Phase I, II, or now Phase III.