Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Boss]

People being 'hard wired' to worship something greater than themselves is simply a consequence of evolution as social pack animals.

It's simply not that. This is simply an excuse your simple mind has come up with, to simply explain away the attribute. Your theory simply fails as soon as we look at other evolved social pack animals, who show no signs of spirituality. So what you are saying, simply defies Darwin.

Many people crave being told what to do by their perceived superior, not because they have some innate mystical quality but simply because they lack the self respect and confidence to think for themselves.

People claim to believe in islam Christianity wicca, etc, etc, not because they have great faith but because they have no courage to stand up to whatever alpha demon of whatever make believe God (the alpha of all alphas) frightened them into pusillanimous submission..

That's why is against the law to eat the flesh of brown nosed dorks.

Again, if your simple excuses were true, the homosapiens who weren't hindered by the weakness of a "crutch" would have eventually prevailed over those who were "weak" and needed the "crutch." Since 95% of the species is not Nihilist, we can observe that your theory is not true. Unless you are again refuting Darwinism?

your number are incorrect.
A new survey shows that 51 percent of people in the world believe in God. Only 18 percent don’t and 17 percent are undecided.

More than 18,000 people participated in the London-based poll in 23 countries conducted by global research company, Ipsos Social Research Institute.

The Ipsos/Reuters poll also found that 51 percent believe that there is an afterlife while 23 percent believe they will just "cease to exist." Around a quarter (26 percent) simply don’t know what will happen after death.

Read more at Global Poll: Most Believe in God, Afterlife

making your favorite term "Nihilist" incorrect.

I love how you completely ignored my dismantling of your theories which defied Darwin, and run off to find some superficial survey of 18k people, to refute my point about Nihilists. Only about 5% of the human population claim to be Nihilist. That means, 95% of the human population, at least thinks something spiritual is possible. A majority in your own poll, believe in afterlife. Less than 2 in 10 people, by your own poll numbers, don't believe in God. This is NOT supporting your argument, it continues to refute it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

People being 'hard wired' to worship something greater than themselves is simply a consequence of evolution as social pack animals.

Many people crave being told what to do by their perceived superior, not because they have some innate mystical quality but simply because they lack the self respect and confidence to think for themselves.

People claim to believe in islam Christianity wicca, etc, etc, not because they have great faith but because they have no courage to stand up to whatever alpha demon of whatever make believe God (the alpha of all alphas) frightened them into pusillanimous submission..

That's why is against the law to eat the flesh of brown nosed dorks.

If a majority of students in the colleges believe as you do,I believe they are in store for a major shock someday.

I find it really funny you thinking believers are not able to think for themselves.

true but not the shock you wish it would be.
believers thinking for themselves ?now that is funny your whole belief system is based on not questioning your gospels and believing they are the literal truth.
what you call thinking for yourself is not!

are you putting yourself up as a thinking for yourself representative,if so your arrogance is palpable.

Daws why do we study the scriptures so ? to get to the correct interpretation. It is still left up to interpretation though. We are not robots and choose just as you to be ignorant and reject God or to believe. You people somehow broke free and over came being Hard wired through evolution to reject the creator, how convenient. You people type contradictory nonsense.

 

[Wake]

I love how you completely ignored my dismantling of your theories which defied Darwin, and run off to find some superficial survey of 18k people, to refute my point about Nihilists. Only about 5% of the human population claim to be Nihilist. That means, 95% of the human population, at least thinks something spiritual is possible. A majority in your own poll, believe in afterlife. Less than 2 in 10 people, by your own poll numbers, don't believe in God. This is NOT supporting your argument, it continues to refute it.

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

 

[Boss]

I love how you completely ignored my dismantling of your theories which defied Darwin, and run off to find some superficial survey of 18k people, to refute my point about Nihilists. Only about 5% of the human population claim to be Nihilist. That means, 95% of the human population, at least thinks something spiritual is possible. A majority in your own poll, believe in afterlife. Less than 2 in 10 people, by your own poll numbers, don't believe in God. This is NOT supporting your argument, it continues to refute it.

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

And if that were the only piece of information available, you are correct in making this point. However, this is not all the information. There is at least 70k years of human history, which shows the presence of strong spiritual connection. Indeed, as long as man has been 'civilized' he has also been behaving spiritually.

If you scientifically studied any other form of life, and you noted a particular behavior in that species of life for all of it's existence, and this behavior showed evidence that it produced beneficial things for the species, which explains why it has retained the behavior... We could not draw the conclusion this behavior was irrational, made up, imagined, or product of mass delusion. We may say we don't understand the behavior, but it does seem to legitimately serve a function in the advancement of the species.

It is not debatable that humans have always been spiritually connected, or that humans have benefited tremendously as a result. It's not debatable that other animals and forms of life, do not make up things to explain their fears or comfort lack of knowledge. It's not debatable that other upper primates, who share as much as 98% of our DNA, show no signs of even the most primitive forms of spirituality. All of the "reasoning" to explain why human spirituality exists, literally defies the theories of evolution and natural selection, and contradicts everything we know about nature itself. You have to adopt a FAITH in disbelief!

"Science proves there is no need for God," is a FAITH-BASED statement.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I love how you completely ignored my dismantling of your theories which defied Darwin, and run off to find some superficial survey of 18k people, to refute my point about Nihilists. Only about 5% of the human population claim to be Nihilist. That means, 95% of the human population, at least thinks something spiritual is possible. A majority in your own poll, believe in afterlife. Less than 2 in 10 people, by your own poll numbers, don't believe in God. This is NOT supporting your argument, it continues to refute it.

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

Doesn't prove it but it does indicate where the preponderance of the evidence lies.

This is how the handicaps on most sports are done, splitting the bets evenly by handicapping....and its the best predictor available.

 

[Wake]

I love how you completely ignored my dismantling of your theories which defied Darwin, and run off to find some superficial survey of 18k people, to refute my point about Nihilists. Only about 5% of the human population claim to be Nihilist. That means, 95% of the human population, at least thinks something spiritual is possible. A majority in your own poll, believe in afterlife. Less than 2 in 10 people, by your own poll numbers, don't believe in God. This is NOT supporting your argument, it continues to refute it.

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

And if that were the only piece of information available, you are correct in making this point. However, this is not all the information. There is at least 70k years of human history, which shows the presence of strong spiritual connection. Indeed, as long as man has been 'civilized' he has also been behaving spiritually.

If you scientifically studied any other form of life, and you noted a particular behavior in that species of life for all of it's existence, and this behavior showed evidence that it produced beneficial things for the species, which explains why it has retained the behavior... We could not draw the conclusion this behavior was irrational, made up, imagined, or product of mass delusion. We may say we don't understand the behavior, but it does seem to legitimately serve a function in the advancement of the species.

It is not debatable that humans have always been spiritually connected, or that humans have benefited tremendously as a result. It's not debatable that other animals and forms of life, do not make up things to explain their fears or comfort lack of knowledge. It's not debatable that other upper primates, who share as much as 98% of our DNA, show no signs of even the most primitive forms of spirituality. All of the "reasoning" to explain why human spirituality exists, literally defies the theories of evolution and natural selection, and contradicts everything we know about nature itself. You have to adopt a FAITH in disbelief!

"Science proves there is no need for God," is a FAITH-BASED statement.

I am skeptical on the existence of spirits, because I base most if not all of my view on objective evidence that can be discerned through the five senses. Everything you have said is not debatable is indeed debateable and will continue to be so; saying that it is not is dangerous and borders on fascism.

Even though spirits cannot be proven through the scientific method, let's assume for a moment that what you are saying is true. You are saying that spirits exist. You are opening a massive, massive door.

How many spirits are there?
Are there water spirits? Fire spirits? Light and dark spirits?
Do they have genitalia or not? Are they like the angels?
Are they able to procreate? Do they give people powers?
Can they be harnessed for energy? Can they be farmed?
What is their weight? Their size? Dimensions? Colors?
How do they exist without being seen?
Is Golden Sun based on actual events?
How do they nest? May we hunt them? What is their flavor?
Their intellect: how high? Do they know more than one language?
Are they capable of destroying our world?
Can spiritualists collect and battle them like trainers do their Pokemon?

The questions go on, ad nauseum.

I think you have tremendous belief in the notion of spirits, Boss, but I don't think you know for sure whether they exist or not. If they can be discerned through science, I would like to know, please.

If you still believe that spirits exist, why not angels and demons? Gods? Everything else?

Imagine someone else. Imagine he says and believes everything you believe and say, except that you've swapped out spirits for any other kind of supernatural being.

And back to the numbers part, just because a lot of people believe something... that doesn't mean it's true. That's just logic. Correlation isn't causation. If many people believe something, they may be right... but saying that because most people believe something then it must be right is absurd.

 

[daws101]

If a majority of students in the colleges believe as you do,I believe they are in store for a major shock someday.

I find it really funny you thinking believers are not able to think for themselves.

true but not the shock you wish it would be.
believers thinking for themselves ?now that is funny your whole belief system is based on not questioning your gospels and believing they are the literal truth.
what you call thinking for yourself is not!

are you putting yourself up as a thinking for yourself representative,if so your arrogance is palpable.

Daws why do we study the scriptures so ? to get to the correct interpretation. It is still left up to interpretation though. We are not robots and choose just as you to be ignorant and reject God or to believe. You people somehow broke free and over came being Hard wired through evolution to reject the creator, how convenient. You people type contradictory nonsense.

sorry there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation.
as always you make the classic false assumption that non believers are by some unknown means ignorant of scripture or the assumed presence of a god.
you can't or will not see the huge difference between knowing and understanding the fantasy of god and NOT buying the bullshit that god is real.
that is the worst kind of ignorance and you're swimming in it.
did like the part where you admit evolution is real!

one more thing Mr. clueless LIFE is contradictory the bible even more so..
no matter how much you deny it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

And if that were the only piece of information available, you are correct in making this point. However, this is not all the information. There is at least 70k years of human history, which shows the presence of strong spiritual connection. Indeed, as long as man has been 'civilized' he has also been behaving spiritually.

If you scientifically studied any other form of life, and you noted a particular behavior in that species of life for all of it's existence, and this behavior showed evidence that it produced beneficial things for the species, which explains why it has retained the behavior... We could not draw the conclusion this behavior was irrational, made up, imagined, or product of mass delusion. We may say we don't understand the behavior, but it does seem to legitimately serve a function in the advancement of the species.

It is not debatable that humans have always been spiritually connected, or that humans have benefited tremendously as a result. It's not debatable that other animals and forms of life, do not make up things to explain their fears or comfort lack of knowledge. It's not debatable that other upper primates, who share as much as 98% of our DNA, show no signs of even the most primitive forms of spirituality. All of the "reasoning" to explain why human spirituality exists, literally defies the theories of evolution and natural selection, and contradicts everything we know about nature itself. You have to adopt a FAITH in disbelief!

"Science proves there is no need for God," is a FAITH-BASED statement.

I am skeptical on the existence of spirits, because I base most if not all of my view on objective evidence that can be discerned through the five senses. Everything you have said is not debatable is indeed debateable and will continue to be so; saying that it is not is dangerous and borders on fascism.

Even though spirits cannot be proven through the scientific method, let's assume for a moment that what you are saying is true. You are saying that spirits exist. You are opening a massive, massive door.

How many spirits are there?
Are there water spirits? Fire spirits? Light and dark spirits?
Do they have genitalia or not? Are they like the angels?
Are they able to procreate? Do they give people powers?
Can they be harnessed for energy? Can they be farmed?
What is their weight? Their size? Dimensions? Colors?
How do they exist without being seen?
Is Golden Sun based on actual events?
How do they nest? May we hunt them? What is their flavor?
Their intellect: how high? Do they know more than one language?
Are they capable of destroying our world?
Can spiritualists collect and battle them like trainers do their Pokemon?

The questions go on, ad nauseum.

I think you have tremendous belief in the notion of spirits, Boss, but I don't think you know for sure whether they exist or not. If they can be discerned through science, I would like to know, please.

If you still believe that spirits exist, why not angels and demons? Gods? Everything else?

Imagine someone else. Imagine he says and believes everything you believe and say, except that you've swapped out spirits for any other kind of supernatural being.

And back to the numbers part, just because a lot of people believe something... that doesn't mean it's true. That's just logic. Correlation isn't causation. If many people believe something, they may be right... but saying that because most people believe something then it must be right is absurd.

The mind is a 'spirit', independent of material control and the director of human behavior.

Why is it not 'spirit'? when we know it is immaterial?

 

[JimBowie1958]

true but not the shock you wish it would be.
believers thinking for themselves ?now that is funny your whole belief system is based on not questioning your gospels and believing they are the literal truth.
what you call thinking for yourself is not!

are you putting yourself up as a thinking for yourself representative,if so your arrogance is palpable.

Daws why do we study the scriptures so ? to get to the correct interpretation. It is still left up to interpretation though. We are not robots and choose just as you to be ignorant and reject God or to believe. You people somehow broke free and over came being Hard wired through evolution to reject the creator, how convenient. You people type contradictory nonsense.

sorry there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation.
as always you make the classic false assumption that non believers are by some unknown means ignorant of scripture or the assumed presence of a god.
you can't or will not see the huge difference between knowing and understanding the fantasy of god and NOT buying the bullshit that god is real.
that is the worst kind of ignorance and you're swimming in it.
did like the part where you admit evolution is real!

one more thing Mr. clueless LIFE is contradictory the bible even more so..
no matter how much you deny it.

lol, you make all these unsupported assertions as though you think you were God; maybe that's why you cant believe in Him - you cant imagine two of you in the same universe.

One thing I know from reading your posts is that you will lie, spin, slander, twist and do anything you can to feel like you got the rhetorical advantage.

The fact that you are a fraud and a liar should make everything you say irrelevant to a discerning mind.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I would guess that that means that angels at least have penises and testes to impregnate human women with.

The group labeled 'sons of God' does not equal the group labeled 'angels'.

You are being presumptive, no surprise there.

I do believe the sons of God were angels. A study on who they were.

Sons of God - Genesis 6 - Here a little, there a little - Spirit Realm

might have been, but I doubt it. There are more sentient beings than just humans and angels in the Creation God has made.

 

[Wake]

The mind is a 'spirit', independent of material control and the director of human behavior.

Why is it not 'spirit'? when we know it is immaterial?

Hmph. I doubt it. The "mind" is a very difficult thing to understand. The mind isn't a spirit, because a spirit is supernatural, but it's a puzzling thing to understand nonetheless. It's consciousness. How does the scientific method explain it? I suppose some things are beyond knowing. Our consciousness may very well be a result of random firings and reactions in the brain... but then why are we so able to think and discern when we want to? Jim, how do you reconcile the mind as being immaterial when consciousness itself can be manipulated by psychotropic drugs?

 

[daws101]

Daws why do we study the scriptures so ? to get to the correct interpretation. It is still left up to interpretation though. We are not robots and choose just as you to be ignorant and reject God or to believe. You people somehow broke free and over came being Hard wired through evolution to reject the creator, how convenient. You people type contradictory nonsense.

sorry there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation.
as always you make the classic false assumption that non believers are by some unknown means ignorant of scripture or the assumed presence of a god.
you can't or will not see the huge difference between knowing and understanding the fantasy of god and NOT buying the bullshit that god is real.
that is the worst kind of ignorance and you're swimming in it.
did like the part where you admit evolution is real!

one more thing Mr. clueless LIFE is contradictory the bible even more so..
no matter how much you deny it.

lol, you make all these unsupported assertions as though you think you were God; maybe that's why you cant believe in Him - you cant imagine two of you in the same universe.

One thing I know from reading your posts is that you will lie, spin, slander, twist and do anything you can to feel like you got the rhetorical advantage.

The fact that you are a fraud and a liar should make everything you say irrelevant to a discerning mind.

wrong I've made no unsupported assertions .
I did make one statement of fact:"there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation."-ME
as to your false accusations ...call the waaaaaabulance!

you might want to use word and phrases that you actually know:
'An appeal to advantage is a rhetorical device in which the speaker encourages his or her audience to perform some action by representing that action as being in the audience's best interest.
An appeal to advantage can also be a request from someone in a position of power to someone who is in a socially subordinate position; the request is specifically for the subordinate to perform an act contrary to the subordinate's wishes, such that the subordinate is forced to commit the act in order to satisfy a more significant need. The appeal is specifically most expedient or advantageous to the person in power, but is also presented as forwarding the subordinate's interests in some significant way.

the above is not one of them.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The mind is a 'spirit', independent of material control and the director of human behavior.

Why is it not 'spirit'? when we know it is immaterial?

Hmph. I doubt it. The "mind" is a very difficult thing to understand. The mind isn't a spirit, because a spirit is supernatural,

And M theory is not supernatural? If it pertains to speculation about things outside this universe, then a thing is supernatural isn't it?

but it's a puzzling thing to understand nonetheless. It's consciousness. How does the scientific method explain it? I suppose some things are beyond knowing. Our consciousness may very well be a result of random firings and reactions in the brain... but then why are we so able to think and discern when we want to?

Good questions; guess you gotta find your own answers. I will share what I have learned and that seem true, but that's about it.

Jim, how do you reconcile the mind as being immaterial when consciousness itself can be manipulated by psychotropic drugs?

Because the drugs interfere with the minds interface with the brain. Where is that exactly? I don't know, but it has something to do with the neurotransmitters, and I think it is likely to be some kind of quantum process using the brain cells michrotubules. Quantum Consciousness

You might find this interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind

 

[JimBowie1958]

sorry there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation.
as always you make the classic false assumption that non believers are by some unknown means ignorant of scripture or the assumed presence of a god.
you can't or will not see the huge difference between knowing and understanding the fantasy of god and NOT buying the bullshit that god is real.
that is the worst kind of ignorance and you're swimming in it.
did like the part where you admit evolution is real!

one more thing Mr. clueless LIFE is contradictory the bible even more so..
no matter how much you deny it.

lol, you make all these unsupported assertions as though you think you were God; maybe that's why you cant believe in Him - you cant imagine two of you in the same universe.

One thing I know from reading your posts is that you will lie, spin, slander, twist and do anything you can to feel like you got the rhetorical advantage.

The fact that you are a fraud and a liar should make everything you say irrelevant to a discerning mind.

wrong I've made no unsupported assertions .
I did make one statement of fact:"there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation."-ME

This is hilarious. You say that you made no unwarranted assertions except for a 'fact' that you never provide support for.

Then you follow with....

you might want to use word and phrases that you actually know:

lol, you just cant make up this shit. Dawes you are the dumbest bitch on these boards, though Starkey and a few other do give you competition.

'An appeal to advantage is a rhetorical device in which the speaker encourages his or her audience to perform some action by representing that action as being in the audience's best interest.
An appeal to advantage can also be a request from someone in a position of power to someone who is in a socially subordinate position; the request is specifically for the subordinate to perform an act contrary to the subordinate's wishes, such that the subordinate is forced to commit the act in order to satisfy a more significant need. The appeal is specifically most expedient or advantageous to the person in power, but is also presented as forwarding the subordinate's interests in some significant way.

the above is not one of them.

Red herring much? ROFLMAO

 

[RoccoR]

JimBowie1958; et al,

Yes, I've heard this before.

The group labeled 'sons of God' does not equal the group labeled 'angels'.

You are being presumptive, no surprise there.

I do believe the sons of God were angels. A study on who they were.

might have been, but I doubt it. There are more sentient beings than just humans and angels in the Creation God has made.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure what a "sentient being" is. Is a computer that is "self-aware," and able to learn a "sentient being?" How do I recognize a "sentient being?"

I have a Maine Coon (Ace).

"ACE" at 5 Weeks​

Today, Ace is quite a bit bigger. But he knows his name. He recognizes a mouse on the computer screen; he can (even when it is not moving) search the screen and find it. He responds to various stimuli; a big fan of Fever Ray and Nickelback. He will let me know if he is hungry and if he is hurt.

What test do I perform to determine if he is a "sentient being?"

And what is the connection between being a "sentient being" and a "Supreme Being?" Does a human baby have an awareness of the "Supreme Being?" Or, is awareness of the "Supreme Being" (the belief in a "Supreme Being") something that the baby is taught over time?

If you isolate humans, in a society that had no belief in supernatural beings, would they somehow create or deduce a "Supreme Being?" Would a personality like "Jim Jones" or "David Koresh" emerge and convince people that have a religion? How do we know that the same mental processes that follow the main stream religions are not the same processes at work in the case of "Jim Jones" and "David Koresh" ----> or the Heaven's Gate cult, and con artists like Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Youwerecreated]

Daws why do we study the scriptures so ? to get to the correct interpretation. It is still left up to interpretation though. We are not robots and choose just as you to be ignorant and reject God or to believe. You people somehow broke free and over came being Hard wired through evolution to reject the creator, how convenient. You people type contradictory nonsense.

sorry there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation.
as always you make the classic false assumption that non believers are by some unknown means ignorant of scripture or the assumed presence of a god.
you can't or will not see the huge difference between knowing and understanding the fantasy of god and NOT buying the bullshit that god is real.
that is the worst kind of ignorance and you're swimming in it.
did like the part where you admit evolution is real!

one more thing Mr. clueless LIFE is contradictory the bible even more so..
no matter how much you deny it.

lol, you make all these unsupported assertions as though you think you were God; maybe that's why you cant believe in Him - you cant imagine two of you in the same universe.

One thing I know from reading your posts is that you will lie, spin, slander, twist and do anything you can to feel like you got the rhetorical advantage.

The fact that you are a fraud and a liar should make everything you say irrelevant to a discerning mind.

I have nothing to add,you could not have been more spot on.

 

[Youwerecreated]

sorry there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation.
as always you make the classic false assumption that non believers are by some unknown means ignorant of scripture or the assumed presence of a god.
you can't or will not see the huge difference between knowing and understanding the fantasy of god and NOT buying the bullshit that god is real.
that is the worst kind of ignorance and you're swimming in it.
did like the part where you admit evolution is real!

one more thing Mr. clueless LIFE is contradictory the bible even more so..
no matter how much you deny it.

lol, you make all these unsupported assertions as though you think you were God; maybe that's why you cant believe in Him - you cant imagine two of you in the same universe.

One thing I know from reading your posts is that you will lie, spin, slander, twist and do anything you can to feel like you got the rhetorical advantage.

The fact that you are a fraud and a liar should make everything you say irrelevant to a discerning mind.

wrong I've made no unsupported assertions .
I did make one statement of fact:"there can be no correct interpretation as there are no original texts to interpret from .
all you're doing is interpreting an interpretation of an interpretation."-ME
as to your false accusations ...call the waaaaaabulance!

you might want to use word and phrases that you actually know:
'An appeal to advantage is a rhetorical device in which the speaker encourages his or her audience to perform some action by representing that action as being in the audience's best interest.
An appeal to advantage can also be a request from someone in a position of power to someone who is in a socially subordinate position; the request is specifically for the subordinate to perform an act contrary to the subordinate's wishes, such that the subordinate is forced to commit the act in order to satisfy a more significant need. The appeal is specifically most expedient or advantageous to the person in power, but is also presented as forwarding the subordinate's interests in some significant way.

the above is not one of them.

I have absolutely no doubt that the creator of all we see touch and smell can make sure his words of truth are just that and the accurate message is not lost.

 

[JimBowie1958]

JimBowie1958; et al,

Yes, I've heard this before.

I do believe the sons of God were angels. A study on who they were.

might have been, but I doubt it. There are more sentient beings than just humans and angels in the Creation God has made.

(COMMENT)

I'm not sure what a "sentient being" is. Is a computer that is "self-aware," and able to learn a "sentient being?" How do I recognize a "sentient being?"

I have a Maine Coon (Ace).

"ACE" at 5 Weeks​

Today, Ace is quite a bit bigger. But he knows his name. He recognizes a mouse on the computer screen; he can (even when it is not moving) search the screen and find it. He responds to various stimuli; a big fan of Fever Ray and Nickelback. He will let me know if he is hungry and if he is hurt.

What test do I perform to determine if he is a "sentient being?"

And what is the connection between being a "sentient being" and a "Supreme Being?" Does a human baby have an awareness of the "Supreme Being?" Or, is awareness of the "Supreme Being" (the belief in a "Supreme Being") something that the baby is taught over time?

If you isolate humans, in a society that had no belief in supernatural beings, would they somehow create or deduce a "Supreme Being?" Would a personality like "Jim Jones" or "David Koresh" emerge and convince people that have a religion? How do we know that the same mental processes that follow the main stream religions are not the same processes at work in the case of "Jim Jones" and "David Koresh" ----> or the Heaven's Gate cult, and con artists like Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?

Most Respectfully,
R

Off hand I would say the two basic criteria are
1. the ability to form complex sentences, and
2. the ability to create music, have a sense of abstract things, and pass complex information to the next generation.

 

[Boss]

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

And if that were the only piece of information available, you are correct in making this point. However, this is not all the information. There is at least 70k years of human history, which shows the presence of strong spiritual connection. Indeed, as long as man has been 'civilized' he has also been behaving spiritually.

If you scientifically studied any other form of life, and you noted a particular behavior in that species of life for all of it's existence, and this behavior showed evidence that it produced beneficial things for the species, which explains why it has retained the behavior... We could not draw the conclusion this behavior was irrational, made up, imagined, or product of mass delusion. We may say we don't understand the behavior, but it does seem to legitimately serve a function in the advancement of the species.

It is not debatable that humans have always been spiritually connected, or that humans have benefited tremendously as a result. It's not debatable that other animals and forms of life, do not make up things to explain their fears or comfort lack of knowledge. It's not debatable that other upper primates, who share as much as 98% of our DNA, show no signs of even the most primitive forms of spirituality. All of the "reasoning" to explain why human spirituality exists, literally defies the theories of evolution and natural selection, and contradicts everything we know about nature itself. You have to adopt a FAITH in disbelief!

"Science proves there is no need for God," is a FAITH-BASED statement.

I am skeptical on the existence of spirits, because I base most if not all of my view on objective evidence that can be discerned through the five senses. Everything you have said is not debatable is indeed debateable and will continue to be so; saying that it is not is dangerous and borders on fascism.

Even though spirits cannot be proven through the scientific method, let's assume for a moment that what you are saying is true. You are saying that spirits exist. You are opening a massive, massive door.

How many spirits are there?
Are there water spirits? Fire spirits? Light and dark spirits?
Do they have genitalia or not? Are they like the angels?
Are they able to procreate? Do they give people powers?
Can they be harnessed for energy? Can they be farmed?
What is their weight? Their size? Dimensions? Colors?
How do they exist without being seen?
Is Golden Sun based on actual events?
How do they nest? May we hunt them? What is their flavor?
Their intellect: how high? Do they know more than one language?
Are they capable of destroying our world?
Can spiritualists collect and battle them like trainers do their Pokemon?

The questions go on, ad nauseum.

I think you have tremendous belief in the notion of spirits, Boss, but I don't think you know for sure whether they exist or not. If they can be discerned through science, I would like to know, please.

If you still believe that spirits exist, why not angels and demons? Gods? Everything else?

Imagine someone else. Imagine he says and believes everything you believe and say, except that you've swapped out spirits for any other kind of supernatural being.

And back to the numbers part, just because a lot of people believe something... that doesn't mean it's true. That's just logic. Correlation isn't causation. If many people believe something, they may be right... but saying that because most people believe something then it must be right is absurd.

Well, first of all, I have no idea what you're talking about with "spirits" ...I've not mentioned these. Do you mean like aberrations and ghosts? I don't know if those exist or not, and I've not claimed they do, nor made a case for them. Spiritual nature is what I argued, and this doesn't necessarily include spirits.

Now let's be honest, you are skeptical regarding spiritual nature because it lacks physical confirmation. You can't detect it with your five senses, therefore, you assume it doesn't exist or doesn't have presence. I'll raise these questions again... Do you know which plants to pollinate? Can you coordinate billions of people to construct a colony through telepathic instructions, where each individual knows their role and does it? Bees and ants have the 'senses' to do these things and more. So are human's 5 senses all there is in the universe?

We have, what can be called, a "sixth sense" of spiritual connection. Humans are the only species with the ability to connect spiritually, and it is the secret to our success as a species. To utilize this sense, you have to first believe in spiritual nature, if you've closed your mind to the possibility, you can't make spiritual connection. If you intentionally blindfolded yourself for many years, you would lose your ability to see. Would that mean that vision is not real?

 

[edthecynic]

I love how you completely ignored my dismantling of your theories which defied Darwin, and run off to find some superficial survey of 18k people, to refute my point about Nihilists. Only about 5% of the human population claim to be Nihilist. That means, 95% of the human population, at least thinks something spiritual is possible. A majority in your own poll, believe in afterlife. Less than 2 in 10 people, by your own poll numbers, don't believe in God. This is NOT supporting your argument, it continues to refute it.

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't mean that something is right. Numbers don't mean something is correct or incorrect.

And if that were the only piece of information available, you are correct in making this point. However, this is not all the information. There is at least 70k years of human history, which shows the presence of strong spiritual connection. Indeed, as long as man has been 'civilized' he has also been behaving spiritually.

I love how this pompous know-it-all calls a survey of 18k people "superficial" but because ONE, that's right ONE, Mongo Man 40,000 years ago in Australia was for the first time covered in red ochre in his grave and that means that everyone in the entire world for 70k years was strongly spiritual.

Apparently for the first 30k years people were not spiritual because none of them were buried with red ochre before Mongo Man. BTW, Mongo Lady, the same age as Mongo Man, was not covered in red ochre, she was cremated, so women did not become spiritual until later.