newpolitics
vegan atheist indy
- Sep 27, 2008
- 2,931
- 262
- 48
Here's a couple of questions that may force a definition out of you: How do you interact with this spiritual power? What effect does this have on your life?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Here's a couple of questions that may force a definition out of you: How do you interact with this spiritual power? What effect does this have on your life?
Here's a couple of questions that may force a definition out of you: How do you interact with this spiritual power? What effect does this have on your life?
We're over 700 posts now, and I am still not going to define a god so you can attack it. I have explained what "god" means in my argument, and you have not refuted anything in my argument. If you'd like to attempt that soon, it would be nice.
Here's a couple of questions that may force a definition out of you: How do you interact with this spiritual power? What effect does this have on your life?
We're over 700 posts now, and I am still not going to define a god so you can attack it. I have explained what "god" means in my argument, and you have not refuted anything in my argument. If you'd like to attempt that soon, it would be nice.
What would be nice, is if you learned something about logic, and then used it. Because right now, you are seriously missing the mark. Nowhere in this thread is a proof for anything. Quite literally. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but don't claim definitive proof for god and then let us down with such a poorly constructed argument. Try putting your argument in syllogistic form, and see how far you get. Then you will realize you can't get to "god exists." Not by a long shot.
We're over 700 posts now, and I am still not going to define a god so you can attack it. I have explained what "god" means in my argument, and you have not refuted anything in my argument. If you'd like to attempt that soon, it would be nice.
What would be nice, is if you learned something about logic, and then used it. Because right now, you are seriously missing the mark. Nowhere in this thread is a proof for anything. Quite literally. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but don't claim definitive proof for god and then let us down with such a poorly constructed argument. Try putting your argument in syllogistic form, and see how far you get. Then you will realize you can't get to "god exists." Not by a long shot.
I'm following logic, and I've shown where you are not. You demand and expect physical evidence of a spiritual entity, which is illogical. You claim humans suffer from 70k years of mass delusion, again.. illogical. You claim spiritual belief is to explain things that have been explained for hundreds of years, illogical. You defy the very principles of physical science you claim to believe in, again... ILLOGICAL!
Every time you have dared to touch on the OP argument, you've proven to be an illogical twit, yet you are here calling me the illogical one. For the most part, you've steered away from debate on the subject, in favor of distracting and derailing the topic or personally attacking me with ridicule, or boasting about how you've somehow "won" the debate that you've not really participated in. At least, not with anything logical.
Now, you are tenacious, I've got to give you that. You obviously have a high regard for your opinion, but unfortunately, your opinion doesn't defeat the argument.
We often hear the God-haters chortle... you don't have definitive proof that god exists, therefore, it must be a fallacy.(not that it must be a fallacy, only that it's not proven. You're putting words in people's mouths as the start of a thesis. weak.) I have often been puzzled by this argument, because it seems to indicate a complete lack of basic comprehension and logic(no, the absence of proof leading to a lack of belief is completely logical. weak). Many people certainly DO have definitive proof that god exists(not a single person does, this is an assertion with no backbone. weak. that is why the majority of believers in "god," i.e. Christians, require FAITH. FAITH is the ABSENCE OF PROOF, YET BELIEF. weak.), that's why they believe in god. You may not be willing to accept their proof, because it is spiritual and not physical, but that's your problem. (no, a person arguing publicly to have proof of something then has the burden to back up their commentary. that's how debate works. no one has provided spiritual proof of a god, and before they even could they'd need to obviously define spiritual, define god. this is how logic works. weak.)
You see, we can't expect a spiritual entity to exist in the physical sense, then it would be a physical entity. By it's very nature, God doesn't have to physically exist to exist as a spirit or energy(energy is a physical property. "spirit" is an abstract, unproven entity). So the demands for physical proof of a spiritual entity are devoid of logic to begin with(so is pretending a spiritual entity exists because people say so, with no proof whatsoever except them all saying so. that is devoid of logic, as well). Does a thought exist(actually, you can map the brain's function throughout a thought. theyre also in the process of being able to pull a visual memory out of the brain. catch up on your research, you're wrong here)? You can't see it, there is no physical proof of it's existence, but does it not still exist(you can see it, there is physical proof of its existence, and theyre in the middle of proving it definitively. look it up)? How about an inspiration? How about a dream? How about love? (love is an emotion, it triggers a physical reaction. everyone knows that. dreams are what the brain goes through when it's defragging during sleep. inspiration is a thought process.)
As you can see, the "existence" of something can be physical or nonphysical, or even spiritual(everything you said above was physical, for starters. all provable by hard science. "or even spiritual" is a leap you just freely took, with no logical backbone). So in order to evaluate the existence of something spiritual, we have to use spiritual evidence, since physical evidence doesn't logically apply. We don't demand spiritual evidence to prove the physical.... if you demonstrate how rain is caused with physical science, and someone says...well God tells me that rain is His tears... what would you say to that? It's backward, mouth-breathing and knuckle-dragging? Right? Well, that is someone applying spiritual evidence to the physical(umm, saying that rains is god's tears is not providing EVIDENCE, it's providing an ASSERTION. jesus fuck you're dumb), and rejecting physical evidence. Yes, it's kind of stupid, isn't it? Just as stupid as demanding physical evidence to support a spiritual entity, and rejecting spiritual evidence. (you still haven't shown this spiritual evidence you're talking about. You still don't even define what spiritual is. Or, what god is. this sounds like a conversation a schitzo would have with himself).
Now to the "definitive proof" part. Since we have now determined that Spiritual evidence is what is needed to prove God's existence(HAHAHAHAHAHA), we take you back 70,000 years or so, to the ancient people of Lake Mungo, one of the oldest human civilizations ever discovered. There, they found evidence of ritual burial using red ochre in ceremony(SO WHAT?). This is important because it signifies presence of spirituality (NO IT SIGNIFIES THE PRESENCE OF A BELIEF IN SPIRITUALITY. NOT THE PRESENCE OF SPIRITUALITY. YOU'RE REALLY FAST AND LOOSE WITH CALLING THINGS EVIDENCE, HOLY SHIT). We can trace this human connection with spirituality all through mankind's history to present day religions. Mankind has always been spiritually connected to something greater than self (mankind has always believed in spirituality. That doesn't mean it exists. Just like billions of children believing in santa doesn't mean he exists, and billions of people believing THEIR God, is THE ONLY GOD (monotheism), MEANS THAT BILLIONS OF OTHER MONOTHEISTS ARE NECESSARILY WRONG ABOUT THEIR BELIEF! NUMBSKULL, WHAT THIS MEANS IS, IS THAT BELIEF IS NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING AND BELIEF BY BILLIONS CAN BE SHOWN TO BE DEMONSTRABLY WRONG). Since our very origins.
Perhaps this is where we can interject some relative physical science, from none other than the father of evolution, Mr. Charles Darwin. In his book, Origin of the Species, Darwin points out that behavioral traits which are inherent in a species, exist for some fundamental reason pertaining to the advancement of the species, otherwise they are discarded over time through natural selection(YOU DONT KNOW DARWIN'S THEORY. DO YOU HAVE AN APENDIX, RETARD?). No species of animal we have ever studied, just does something inherently, with no fundamental reason(SPIRITUAL BELIEF HAS A REASON: TO QUELL FEAR). Salmon swim upstream for a reason. Dogs wag their tails for a reason.(WE HAVE AN APENDIX FOR NO REASON. WE HAVE PHOBIAS FOR NO REASON. THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT, AND YOU STILL SHOW A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING FOR DARWIN) We may not understand the reason, but Darwin tells us, there has to be one.
So there you have it, in just a few short paragraphs. Definitive proof that God exists!(YOU DONT KNOW WHAT DEFINITIVE MEANS. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT GOD MEANS, EITHER)
"70,000 years" of a state of mind does NOT constitute ""Definitive Proof" for the existence of your "God".You refuse to accept spiritual evidence. You will do anything to avoid acknowledgement, because you hate religious people.
There is NO SPIRITUAL EVIDENCE whatsoever, period! Furthermore your incessant LYING about others rationally refusing to accept something that does not exist only makes you the one who is displaying hatred towards those who don't share your particular religious beliefs.
Spirituality is just a state of mind. Some people have more experience than others when it comes to reaching this state. Meditation is one way to do it, another is prayer and a third is to recite a mantra but the common purpose is to zone out into a state where the mind is divorced from everyday reality and free to indulge in fantasy. You are attempting to claim that this state of mind is the equivalent of "evidence". In a court of law a "state of mind" can be used as "motive" for committing a crime but no one is ever convicted on "motive" alone. There must be other substantial evidence beyond any reasonable doubt. In your instance there is no doubt whatsoever that you are playing fast and loose with a "state of mind" and attempting to convince a jury that this constitutes actual "evidence". Furthermore you are deceitfully alleging that everyone who treats your premise with the skepticism that it justly deserves is "guilty" of hating "religious people". You have no actual "evidence" to prove that spurious allegation either.
This entire thread has been little more than an exercise for you to use your own personal religious beliefs as a club to beat those who don't share them. That is not the kind of religion that any sane and rational person would want to join.
So you are going to cling to 70,000 years of "mass delusion" to explain human spiritual connection? Yes, there IS spiritual evidence,
Your own posts contradict that allegation.and you refuse to EVER acknowledge it. We can continue this thread for another 20 pages, and you will STILL not acknowledge it. My thread is NEVER going to change your mind, and I fully understood this when I posted it.
Another easily debunked canard of yours. Genuine Atheists don't believe in the existence of any "God". Whereas YOU are claiming that there is "Definitive Proof that GOD Exists". This means that you are now lying about being an Atheist in order to hide your religious beliefs.I have stated, at least a dozen time in the thread, that I am not religious, I have no religious beliefs, I am pretty much an Atheist
when it comes to organized religion, yet here you are again, trying to accuse me of forcing my religious beliefs on others. Honestly, how can you have a reasonable debate with people who are this dishonest?
What you and others continue to prove, by insinuating religion, is that you are angry at religion and religious people. You are so spitting mad at them, that any time someone even dares to mention "spirituality" you emotively go into attack mode.
You've proven this over and over in the thread. It's sad that you are letting your anger and rage for religion, get in the way of understanding human spirituality.
I guess its hard to convince the deluded of their delusion, and so it is with you.
The reason people are still religious, although the number is decreasing, is because of the ability for people to put god into whatever gaps science hasn't yet answered.
Also, it is evolved into us to look for the spiritual, as a sort of vestigial belief pattern, as well as there being tremendous social pressure to believe in god in religious communities, from friends and family. People trust atheists the least of any demographic, a priori, which confirms it being an evolved trait that performed a cohesive function, but is now incongruent in our modern world, and will be phased out.
No, Occams Razor doesn't say that god must exist.
I have addresses the OP directly, only to be frustrated by your inability to grasp the logical, and your continual insistence that you are right simply because it makes sense to you.
No, obviously, I said YOUR limits on nature are not real.Again you are putting limits on nature that don't exist. Take a virus as an example. No virus can reproduce itself. The virus gets a host to reproduce it. So obviously the host reproduces an organism that is not its own kind.
You are saying there are no limits on nature which easily can be observed.
Here's a couple of questions that may force a definition out of you: How do you interact with this spiritual power? What effect does this have on your life?
We're over 700 posts now, and I am still not going to define a god so you can attack it. I have explained what "god" means in my argument, and you have not refuted anything in my argument. If you'd like to attempt that soon, it would be nice.
What would be nice, is if you learned something about logic, and then used it. Because right now, you are seriously missing the mark. Nowhere in this thread is a proof for anything. Quite literally. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but don't claim definitive proof for god and then let us down with such a poorly constructed argument. Try putting your argument in syllogistic form, and see how far you get. Then you will realize you can't deductively get to "god exists" using your premises. Not by a long shot.
We're over 700 posts now, and I am still not going to define a god so you can attack it. I have explained what "god" means in my argument, and you have not refuted anything in my argument. If you'd like to attempt that soon, it would be nice.
What would be nice, is if you learned something about logic, and then used it. Because right now, you are seriously missing the mark. Nowhere in this thread is a proof for anything. Quite literally. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but don't claim definitive proof for god and then let us down with such a poorly constructed argument. Try putting your argument in syllogistic form, and see how far you get. Then you will realize you can't deductively get to "god exists" using your premises. Not by a long shot.
I have given an argument from the standpoint of Logic that goes ignored that does suggest a designer (GOD).
What would be nice, is if you learned something about logic, and then used it. Because right now, you are seriously missing the mark. Nowhere in this thread is a proof for anything. Quite literally. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but don't claim definitive proof for god and then let us down with such a poorly constructed argument. Try putting your argument in syllogistic form, and see how far you get. Then you will realize you can't deductively get to "god exists" using your premises. Not by a long shot.
I have given an argument from the standpoint of Logic that goes ignored that does suggest a designer (GOD).
Not ignored exactly. Just dismissed as irrelevant. There is just nothing logical about appeals to supernaturalism.
You have brought up arguments that are long known to be flawed, and therefore they are categorized as arguments that are basically pointless. Whenever I see deliberately self-destructing arguments, I point out that the fallaciousness of them is so overwhelming, one has to consciously and deliberately blind oneself to the flaws.
First, let me make an assumption that we are in agreement that god(s) have no attributes other than those that most Theists apply to him after acknowledging that he/her is beyond human comprehension. So how does a mere mortal apply these various attributes to the incomprehensible? Like most religionists, you drench your gods with human attributes while at the same time claiming he is beyond our power to understand.
Perhaps what you assert as divine can be divined (in which case it would belong to the natural world). But theists insist the supernatural does not belong in the natural realm and to that the materialist says, Okay, then by definition it is not rational and if it is not rational, knowable, extant, etc. then it is indistinguishable from nothingness. Hence, why believe it is true?"
Only religious people get angry when the existence of their "God" is debunked with reason and logic which is what you are doing right now. That you have to project your anger and hatred onto those who are upholding their own freedom from religion rights just exposes how deeply religious you actually are.
![]()
Genuine Atheists don't believe in the existence of any "God".
Incorrect. They don't believe in "theistic" concepts of god.
Atheist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEIST
: one who believes that there is no deity
Atheism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Many Atheists do accept the possibility of spiritual nature. Only 5% of the population identify as Nihilist.
Genuine Atheists don't believe in the existence of any "God".
Incorrect. They don't believe in "theistic" concepts of god.
Whom should we believe regarding the definition of an Atheist? Your self serving lies or Merriam-Webster?
Atheist - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEIST
: one who believes that there is no deity
Atheism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Merriam-Webster has far more credibility than your pathetic lies when it comes to the indisputable facts.
Many Atheists do accept the possibility of spiritual nature. Only 5% of the population identify as Nihilist.
Completely irrelevant. Spirituality is a STATE OF MIND and does NOT remotely resemble "Definitive Proof that GOD Exists".
Incorrect. They don't believe in "theistic" concepts of god.
Whom should we believe regarding the definition of an Atheist? Your self serving lies or Merriam-Webster?
Merriam-Webster has far more credibility than your pathetic lies when it comes to the indisputable facts.
Many Atheists do accept the possibility of spiritual nature. Only 5% of the population identify as Nihilist.
Completely irrelevant. Spirituality is a STATE OF MIND and does NOT remotely resemble "Definitive Proof that GOD Exists".
A "deity" is a theistic concept of god.
Deity - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Definition of DEITY
1
a : the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity
b capitalized : god 1, supreme being
2
: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>
3
: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful
Show me one place in this entire thread, where I have claimed god was a "deity" and I will accept your accusation and apologize publicly. If you can't, I will expect a public apology from you, for repeatedly making this false accusation.
You see, this is why you and others are so determined to lock me into a definition of god. You can then attack whatever incarnation I present, thus refuting my argument. The fact that I will not allow this, has you frustrated to the point of outright lying.