Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Youwerecreated]

Morning Star is singular and Lucifer is an angel.

And learn to read, that verse says Satan is the FATHER of Jesus through the House of David.

You need to better understand the bible quit making your ignorance my problem lol.




Who is the morning Star and the Bright Morning star?

Job 1:6; 2:1 mentions of sons of God as ancient. Job 1:6: “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.” The Lord is in heaven and at a certain time He summons the angels to be present and accounted for. How do we know they are angels? First, Satan is required to appear before the Lord with them.

God asks Job “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it. To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:4-6)

This could not mean Adam who had no sons until after he sinned. This was when the foundations of earth were being laid, before Adam was made on the 6th day. The angels were together, united as sons of God before a division occurred through the fall of a certain Cherub. So we see that the morning stars are a group and they are also called sons of God.

The Hebrew word for sons of God is bene elohim. The term, sons of God in the Old Testament is used in a plural manner and refers to angels. Men are not called sons of God until the New Testament when the Holy Spirit resides in them. One becomes a son of God – children in his spiritual family (Jn.1:12; 1 Jn.3:1,10, 5:10) by being born again, by His Spirit living within us. We are adopted becoming part of a family of believers. Gal. 3:26-27: “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” (Rom.8:14,19; Lk.20:36). The word `son ` in this respect relates to possession, or that one thing belongs to another.

The word morning stars is found only once in the Old Testament and is plural in Job 38:7. [KJV, NKJV, NASV all have the same words in Job.38.] The Hebrew word here for morning is boquer or dawn stars – they are symbolized as when the angels were together in unity. We see this symbology used when Satan states “I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.” His goal; to become the authority over all the “other“ angels in heaven, something reserved only for God.

What we have is both the symbolic usage of angels (morning stars) and what God calls them, sons of God. In Job 1, 2:1 these angels include Satan. When the word star is used symbolically, it is for angels (Job 38:7; Rev. 1:20; 9:1; 12:4. with Num. 24:17 as an exception). We see this same type of symbolism in few places in the New Testament saying the same thing; showing the stars of heaven are symbolic of angels.
Mark 13:25: “the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.”
Rev. 6:13: “And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.”
Rev. 12:4 “His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth” the amount of angels in the rebellion.

With this background we come to the usage of morning star. Isa 14:12:”How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!”

KJV - How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, SON OF THE MORNING
NASV - How you have fallen from heaven, O STAR OF THE MORNING, SON OF THE DAWN
NIV - How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR, SON OF THE DAWN

In the Hebrew, the name Satan is used 19 times in the Old Testament, 36 times in the New Testament. His actual original name in the Hebrew is Day Star (not Lucifer), the word describes his original state as “the shining one”. Even though his nature is changed from its original state, Satan can still transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14). His inner nature is changed, but he is still able to look beautiful, so he is deceptive in character because this is not who he really is.

The fall of Satan is described in Isaiah 14:12-14: is more accurately translated How are you fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! Verse 12 summarizes his fall. Isa. 14:12 The Septuagint renders it, [Heoosforos], and the Vulgate, `Lucifer, the morning star’ (from Barnes’ Notes).

Lucifer is NOT the correct translation of the name. Though it is accepted today this is not a name drawn from the Bible for Satan before his fall or after. “He is called the Day star- Hebrew Ben Shaachar- Son of the morning- Isa. 14:12 Hebrew heeyleel which means the bright and shining one, one who spreads light. This Hebrew noun is found nowhere else” (Barnes' Notes).

Lucifer is the Latin name given to the Devil derived from this passage - light bearer. The King James Version unfortunately uses the Latin and translates the name to “Lucifer” (Isa. 14:12). The scholars that translated the King James Bible did not use the original Hebrew texts for all the Old Testament. In this passage they were influenced by Jerome's Latin Vulgate Bible from the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, “Day star, son of the Dawn,” as “Lucifer.” The name 'Lucifer' (shining one) was associated to Satan (before his fall) and is now the accepted terminology. But because of this widespread usage of the name, it confuses people. In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (most identify as Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, and is diminished by the rising sun.

Isa. 14:12: “Son of the morning” is a Hebraism of a bright star, having light; the offspring of morning. The word ‘son’ often describes possession of the quality or characteristic described. It belongs to the morning; in other words it has the nature of that thing or title it is attached to. So the Son of the morning would present him as one who has light.

All the angels are called morning stars, collectively (Job 38:4-7), this is not a unique title. Satan is classed among the other morning stars as a created being, an angel. However, he being called the son of the morning separates him from among the other stars. The other angels are called stars, morning stars (symbolically), this title makes the point that he had a higher estate than the others.

After the fall he is no longer called by this title. We have to understand that this being, now called Satan (meaning accuser) was created without flaws, perfect in his being until sin was manifested - which was pride). Satan is spoken of in Ezek. 28 “You were the anointed cherub who covers; in Ezek 28:16 he is called the covering cherub. He was the anointed angel day star, the son of the morning that was located “above God’s throne.”

Before his fall the light bearer bore the name of son of the morning, an important star (symbolic) as light giver. Once a shining and beautiful star, after he fell, his glory and position were taken away. Some Biblical scholars believe Jesus took this title upon himself, being called the bright morning star: just as he took the title of son of man later in his incarnation and the last Adam (1 Cor.15:45). Many names unperfected by man are applied to Jesus as He fulfilled the roles and offices of prophet, priest and King perfectly.

Many make the mistake (some on purpose) that Lucifer is the “bright morning star” that the New Testament speaks of. Jesus is then confused with Lucifer because of this term being used.

There are three places the title morning star are seen in Scripture.

1) Rev. 2:28 “and I will give him the morning star.” In Revelation the Son of God promises to give the MORNING STAR to him that overcometh. . . this has nothing to do with the fallen angels known or Satan. Since one is overcoming the world and its temptations that come from Satan to receive the morning star. Morning star- proinos. Aster.
“Rev 2:28 The morning star ton (NT:3543) astera (NT:785) ton (NT:3543) proonion (NT:4355). “The star the morning one.” In Rev 22:16 Christ is the bright morning star. The victor will have Christ himself” (from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament)

2) Rev 22:16: `Jesus is called THE “bright morning star”: Bright morning star- lampros-1) shining a) brilliant proinos- pertaining to the morning. Gr.aster-a star.

This means we will have Christ Himself [as our reward], like God promised Abraham I am you exceeding great reward. This connects with Rev. 22:16: “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Jesus is saying he alone is this, “I am the bright Morning Star.” Only here is the word bright is added to Morning Star, distinguishing Jesus from any angel.

Bright – Gr. lampros-1) shining a) brilliant; figuratively, magnificent or sumptuous (in appearance):

Easton's Bible Dictionary states: a name figuratively given to Christ (Rev. 22:16; comp. 2 Pet. 1:19). When Christ promises that he will give the “morning star” to his faithful ones, he “promises that he will give to them himself, that he will give to them himself, that he will impart to them his own glory and a share in his own royal dominion; for the star is evermore the symbol of royalty (Matt. 2:2), being therefore linked with the sceptre (Num. 24:17). All the glory of the world shall end in being the glory of the Church.” Trench's Comm.

3) 2 Peter 1 “And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; (NKJ)
The confusion comes from a mistranslation of 2 Peter 1:19, previously misidentified the Morning Star [Satan] will assume the ascendancy in hearts of believers:

KJV . . . until the day dawns, and the DAY STAR arises in your hearts
NASV . . . until the day dawns and the MORNING STAR arises in your hearts
NIV . . . until the day dawns and the MORNING STAR rises in your hearts.

In 2 Peter 1:19 the word in Greek- phosphoros, literally is, “light-bringer,” from light-bearing, to give light, It is only translated in the KJV this way, This is the only place the name day star is used. It is not the same word used elsewhere.

2 Peter 1 “And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts”
This is referring to Scripture as our continual light, a light in darkness that gives us instruction until the real light comes, which is Jesus. This later portion could be describing the transformation of believers to immortality. As A.T. Robertson points out “usual construction for future time. A late compound verb diaugazoo (NT:1293) (Polybius, Plutarch, papyri) from dia (NT:1211) and augee (NT:820), to shine through, here only in the New Testament.

The morning star is a far more accurate translation than day star. What distinguishes Jesus from the morning star is the definite article “ha”, THE. In the same way an angel of the Lord and THE Angel of the Lord distinguishes the messenger from an ordinary angel and the pre-incarnate Christ.

Malachi 4:2: “But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise” This concept of "dawn" is applied to the Messiah.

'Shachar' = 'dawn' as in coming out of the dark (God separates light from dark in creation in Genesis and in new creation in John); Shachar Ha Ira chasecha l'shir' - “morning by morning new mercies I see'.

The syntax is a distinguishing feature. When it is Christ it always a reference to Him by title; when a reference to another the term is used in substitution of a personal name.

son of the morning- head of the angels, associated with Day star before he fell.
THE morning star- Jesus (singular)
THE Bright morning star

Son of the morning (is exclusively the devils title before he fell) is not the same as the bright morning star (used only for Jesus), which makes the titles difference between Jesus and Satan.




Who is the morning Star and the

Ecxept the KJV translates it:

Rev 22: 16 I, Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The CEV

Rev 22:16 I am Jesus! And I am the one who sent my angel to tell all of you these things for the churches. I am David's Great Descendant, and I am also the bright morning star.


Isa 14:12

(ASV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

(BBE) How great is your fall from heaven, O shining one, son of the morning! How are you cut down to the earth, low among the dead bodies!

(KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

(KJV+) HowH349 art thou fallenH5307 from heaven,H4480 H8064 O Lucifer,H1966 sonH1121 of the morning!H7837 how art thou cut downH1438 to the ground,H776 which didst weakenH2522 H5921 the nations!H1471

(MKJV) How you are fallen from the heavens, O shining star, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!

 

[Youwerecreated]

So your God created this world and then just handed it over to Satan? Do you have any idea how bizarre you sound? Instead of providing valid arguments to defend your God killing, sorry, murdering (according to you) 10 innocent children (and sparing the life of an Atheist's child) you resort to conjuring up demons and evil spirits. This is the 21st century. Your 11th century superstitions are not valid arguments.

I read my bible how bout you ?

Been there, done that, memorized parts of it too.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in Heaven. Michael and his angels warring against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels warred,
Rev 12:8 but did not prevail. Nor was place found for them in Heaven any more.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and those tabernacling in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and in the sea! For the Devil came down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has but a little time.

Ranting about the "end times" is only hurting whatever tatters of credibility you are still desperately clinging to.

I have probably been debating these issues longer then you have existed on this planet.

 

[SmartRafal]

Do the god exist ? That's very diffucult question witch anyone of us can answer. Trully is that the god is the love BUT "THE CHURCH WANT CHARITY OF HIM LOVE". For Ages believe's in god helped people to understand the pain of war, the pain of friend, family deads. Maybe he is existing in spiritual things but i don't think so. The churchial god created an earth on 7 days. All of the God's have simillary characters. So for me god exists but not a Jesus but as us. We're the god's. Everyonce of us is the god and the prays going to the better us for help. The god's home is in universe and ours prays are flying to the "magically powerfull things" that we can't undestand.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I read my bible how bout you ?

Been there, done that, memorized parts of it too.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in Heaven. Michael and his angels warring against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels warred,
Rev 12:8 but did not prevail. Nor was place found for them in Heaven any more.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and those tabernacling in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and in the sea! For the Devil came down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has but a little time.

Ranting about the "end times" is only hurting whatever tatters of credibility you are still desperately clinging to.

I have probably been debating these issues longer then you have existed on this planet.

And in all that time you haven't managed to learn anything. Age in your case does not bring wisdom, merely experience. If you had any shred of wisdom you would know that your pathetic attempts to claim seniority are laughable. For starters you have no way of credibly proving your age or verifying the age of anyone else. Furthermore you claimed to have worked in the field of "genetic mutations" for 11 years. If you are as old as you allege then you are probably the janitor there. All that you have managed to accomplish is to demonstrate that you rely upon something that you don't even comprehend. Now that is both pathetic and sad. Have a nice day.

 

[numan]

Every time I have dealt with atheistic attacks on the bible it is usually because of the atheist's ignorance of the scriptures.

Usually? So that means that sometimes the criticisms are well founded?

No I have never seen an atheist make a successful claim that discredited the bible.

You should go see your optometrist more often !!
.

 

[numan]

I have probably been debating these issues longer then you have existed on this planet.

Was it an early onset of senility?
.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Been there, done that, memorized parts of it too.


Ranting about the "end times" is only hurting whatever tatters of credibility you are still desperately clinging to.

I have probably been debating these issues longer then you have existed on this planet.

And in all that time you haven't managed to learn anything. Age in your case does not bring wisdom, merely experience. If you had any shred of wisdom you would know that your pathetic attempts to claim seniority are laughable. For starters you have no way of credibly proving your age or verifying the age of anyone else. Furthermore you claimed to have worked in the field of "genetic mutations" for 11 years. If you are as old as you allege then you are probably the janitor there. All that you have managed to accomplish is to demonstrate that you rely upon something that you don't even comprehend. Now that is both pathetic and sad. Have a nice day.

I have learned a few things from your side. you have a great disdain for anyone who does not believe as you and your side is very intolerant for believers I wonder if you even know why ? have a good day!

 

[Youwerecreated]

Usually? So that means that sometimes the criticisms are well founded?

No I have never seen an atheist make a successful claim that discredited the bible.

You should go see your optometrist more often !!
.

My eyes are fine thank you.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have probably been debating these issues longer then you have existed on this planet.

Was it an early onset of senility?
.

I am sorry that my education allowed me to see the truth and reveal the foolish things I once believed. I was once like many of you,brainwashed.

 

[Hollie]

I have probably been debating these issues longer then you have existed on this planet.

Was it an early onset of senility?
.

I am sorry that my education allowed me to see the truth and reveal the foolish things I once believed. I was once like many of you,brainwashed.

Of course, had you been raised in a culture with a different collection of gawds, you would be the fundie extremist who is critical of your currently configured gawds.

You're really just a mere, pedestrian zealot.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Was it an early onset of senility?
.

I am sorry that my education allowed me to see the truth and reveal the foolish things I once believed. I was once like many of you,brainwashed.

Of course, had you been raised in a culture with a different collection of gawds, you would be the fundie extremist who is critical of your currently configured gawds.

You're really just a mere, pedestrian zealot.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

 

[Hollie]

I am sorry that my education allowed me to see the truth and reveal the foolish things I once believed. I was once like many of you,brainwashed.

Of course, had you been raised in a culture with a different collection of gawds, you would be the fundie extremist who is critical of your currently configured gawds.

You're really just a mere, pedestrian zealot.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

And more slithering on your part.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Of course, had you been raised in a culture with a different collection of gawds, you would be the fundie extremist who is critical of your currently configured gawds.

You're really just a mere, pedestrian zealot.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

And more slithering on your part.

Another of my responses goes unanswered.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

 

[Hollie]

Give me a summary of what you're ?

And more slithering on your part.

Another of my responses goes unanswered.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

Honestly, you seem to have a desperate need for confirmation from me as to the existence of your magical gawds. I'm afraid that I have no means, methods or mechanisms to confirm your super-magical gawds.

 

[Youwerecreated]

And more slithering on your part.

Another of my responses goes unanswered.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

Honestly, you seem to have a desperate need for confirmation from me as to the existence of your magical gawds. I'm afraid that I have no means, methods or mechanisms to confirm your super-magical gawds.

Don't flatter yourself I am just exposing your Ideological agenda one post at a time.

 

[edthecynic]

1 Ch 21: 1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Sam 24: 1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

 

[BreezeWood]

No God has the right to render judgement for sin. It don't sound stupid,God offered atonement for all sin so he does not have to render judgement that you find offensive until the final judgement and it is also for his followers to be forgiven for their sin that allows them to gain everlasting life.

what is allowed is life in the Everlasting - the visual content of your present life without necessarily a physiological form ... managing the Garden is always for a welcome soul without evil for those who can accomplish the feat - there is no JC to do that "for" you..

 

[Hollie]

Another of my responses goes unanswered.

Give me a summary of what you're ?

Honestly, you seem to have a desperate need for confirmation from me as to the existence of your magical gawds. I'm afraid that I have no means, methods or mechanisms to confirm your super-magical gawds.

Don't flatter yourself I am just exposing your Ideological agenda one post at a time.

It is true - your desperate need for others to support your bias conformation.

As is typical for creationists (absent a science vocabulary or training in the physical sciences), you recoil at any mention of evolutionary science. Science flatly contradicts the book of Genesis and is thus a direct threat to your fundamentalist theology, a threat to your worldview of super-magical gawds, a threat to the foundation of society and a threat to the basis of morality itself.

On the other side, spreading of errors and lies called creationism is a direct attack on good science, open investigation and learning. Fundies continue a campaign to reduce or remove evolutionary biology from public school science classrooms. This assault is not based on scientific arguments, but on religious objections. Proponents of creationism are frequently not scientists and couldn't tell you a thing about evolution if you asked them.

More often than not, they are fundie Christians looking to force their fears and superstitions on others.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Honestly, you seem to have a desperate need for confirmation from me as to the existence of your magical gawds. I'm afraid that I have no means, methods or mechanisms to confirm your super-magical gawds.

Don't flatter yourself I am just exposing your Ideological agenda one post at a time.

It is true - your desperate need for others to support your bias conformation.

As is typical for creationists (absent a science vocabulary or training in the physical sciences), you recoil at any mention of evolutionary science. Science flatly contradicts the book of Genesis and is thus a direct threat to your fundamentalist theology, a threat to your worldview of super-magical gawds, a threat to the foundation of society and a threat to the basis of morality itself.

On the other side, spreading of errors and lies called creationism is a direct attack on good science, open investigation and learning. Fundies continue a campaign to reduce or remove evolutionary biology from public school science classrooms. This assault is not based on scientific arguments, but on religious objections. Proponents of creationism are frequently not scientists and couldn't tell you a thing about evolution if you asked them.

More often than not, they are fundie Christians looking to force their fears and superstitions on others.

You let me know when you're ready to grow up and have this discussion

 

[Hollie]

Don't flatter yourself I am just exposing your Ideological agenda one post at a time.

It is true - your desperate need for others to support your bias conformation.

As is typical for creationists (absent a science vocabulary or training in the physical sciences), you recoil at any mention of evolutionary science. Science flatly contradicts the book of Genesis and is thus a direct threat to your fundamentalist theology, a threat to your worldview of super-magical gawds, a threat to the foundation of society and a threat to the basis of morality itself.

On the other side, spreading of errors and lies called creationism is a direct attack on good science, open investigation and learning. Fundies continue a campaign to reduce or remove evolutionary biology from public school science classrooms. This assault is not based on scientific arguments, but on religious objections. Proponents of creationism are frequently not scientists and couldn't tell you a thing about evolution if you asked them.

More often than not, they are fundie Christians looking to force their fears and superstitions on others.

You let me know when you're ready to grow up and have this discussion

There's no discussion to be had when you slither away in face of challenges to your fundie creationism.

What really matters most regarding the issue of science and exploration is quality science education in public schools. The primary issue of contention separating science and Christian creationism is the actual science. In creationism, the outcome that the bible is literally true is all that matters, and any scientific finding or empirical evidence that contradicts this preconceived conclusion is ignored or demonized. We see that consistently with your posts. Your revulsion for science and education is palpable, even with written text.

The study of evolution does not endorse any supernatural / religious viewpoint, as can be seen from the fact that people of ALL beliefs can accept it as true. Evolution is true science by virtue of it being formed from the evidence, not (as in the case of Christian creationism) in spite of the evidence.