Democracy In Egypt Is Bad For The United States

[mudwhistle]

Who's In Charge?

"Hosni Mubarak was a dictator who stole elections and reigned with an iron fist for 30 years.

"America isn’t like that.

Right?

Right?

"Ronald Reagan took office thirty years ago.

"He was a product of General Electric and the 'defense' industry, right down to his dyed roots.

"George H.W. Bush, a subsidiary of the Carlyle Group, followed. Clinton took him down so as to deliver NAFTA, GATT, and The Telecommunications Act.

"Then came Al Gor…oh, wait, right, another Bush, who was his own man, the kind of guy you’d like to have a beer with, because he wasn’t running anything.

"Cheney, on the other hand, was still getting paid by Halliburton/KBR while in office, and yeah...he was the boss. Or was he?

So, yeah, who’s been in charge?

Hm."
Truthout

You're a God Damned liar. Cheney had to give up all interest with Haliburton while he was VP. He couldn't even own stock in the company because the Dems would attack him for it.

MSNBC and NBC are ruled by General Electric. The Health Care bill helps make General Electric richer then shit with a new nationwide record keeping system. The charging stations for GMs new electric cars produced by you guessed it, General Electric.

Mubarak wasn't killing our kids in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mubarak wasn't funding Hezbollah. But he had to go now. Iran can stay. Mubarak didn't institute Sharia Law in Egypt. Iran has a Theocracy based on Sharia Law in their country. Mubarak had to go. Iran can stay.

Mubarak could have been encouraged to change. Iran cannot. So of course Mubarak had to go. Iran, they can stay. The public never heard shit about how bad it was in Egypt till Obama started spouting off about it, and in a matter of days Mubarak was gone. Everyone knows about Iran.

CNN was talking about the wonderful people of Iran last year and the year before. Who cares that they were training the insurgents that were killing our troops in Iraq. They can stay. They were providing the explosives used to kill 90% of our dead. They can stay. But Mubarak, who never lifted a finger to kill one of our kids had to go now. Iran is building a nuke program as we speak. Weeks away from going nuke with the help of Russia, but they can stay. Egypt wasn't a threat but Mubarak had to go.

Makes perfect sense.

Dick (the five time draft dodger) Cheney has his Halliburton dividends put in Trust until he left office. He has not sent any of it to "our kids" crippled by the wars he helped instigate, as far as I know.

Are you feeling bitchy that Reagan wasn't the only politician GE ever bought? Although Obama lacks the Gippers formal training in lying to the masses, his skin color more than compensates.

"Mubarak could have been encouraged to change."
By whom?
Muhammad?
Allah?
Dick Cheney?

Anyone who was paying attention during the last thirty years knew Mubarak's legacy of serving rich Wall Street parasites at least as loyally as Reagan or Obama.

They were also aware of Mubarak's commitment to torture, not unlike Cheney and Obama.

His support for illegal US invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq should qualify as "lifting a finger to kill one of our kids", but that only makes "perfect sense" to those not hopelessly brainwashed by corporate talking points.

Like you and Dick and Obama.

I'm a little confused here. Do you want us to suggest or tell other countries what to do?

Just asking.

Oh, and maybe you could spare me the constant string of liberal talking points.

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

 

[editec]

Who's In Charge?

"Hosni Mubarak was a dictator who stole elections and reigned with an iron fist for 30 years.

"America isn’t like that.

Right?

Right?

"Ronald Reagan took office thirty years ago.

"He was a product of General Electric and the 'defense' industry, right down to his dyed roots.

"George H.W. Bush, a subsidiary of the Carlyle Group, followed. Clinton took him down so as to deliver NAFTA, GATT, and The Telecommunications Act.

"Then came Al Gor…oh, wait, right, another Bush, who was his own man, the kind of guy you’d like to have a beer with, because he wasn’t running anything.

"Cheney, on the other hand, was still getting paid by Halliburton/KBR while in office, and yeah...he was the boss. Or was he?

So, yeah, who’s been in charge?

Hm."
Truthout

Haven't you got a revolution to organize?


Idiot.

I'm experiencing a temporary shortage of followers.




Tricky.

As my former local politics mentor once noted

There's no there, there.

There will be no revolution in the USA.

A coup d' etat is possible, I suppose, but it will happen (has happened?) and really... nobody will notice much change except at the top.

If anything the USA is headed to some kind of civil war, and that likely initiated by the right, not the left.

Our gun queer population of extremists to the right are just itching for the opportunity to off their neighbors... just as soon as they think they can get away with it.

When you think of the problems that we might be facing don't think in terms of the French revolution, nor the USA revolution, either.

Think in terms of the mess we saw in Yugoslavia.

 

[saveliberty]

I am pretty tired of the mentally ill conspiracists derailing threads with bullshit. Shouldn't you be out building an underground shelter?

 

[edthecynic]

Anderson Cooper got several wacks up side the head from folks that were yelling anti-American bullshit. They seemed to think we were helping the revolt. They were right.

Those "folks" yelling anti-American bullshit were Mubarak's thugs. That's why the anti-American CON$ervative Brotherhood supports Mubarak!!!!

Journalists targeted, beaten, detained by Mubarak supporters - CNN

Sent as reporters to document the turmoil in Egypt, journalists on Wednesday became targets -- beaten, bloodied, harassed and detained by raging men, most all in some way aligned with embattled President Hosni Mubarak.
Numerous news outlets -- including the BBC, ABC News and CNN -- reported members of their staffs had been attacked, most on the streets of Cairo. In several cases, news personnel were accused of being "foreign spies," seized and whisked away, and often assaulted.
"It was pandemonium. There was no control. Suddenly a man would come up to you and punch you in the face," said CNN's Anderson Cooper, describing being attacked by pro-Mubarak demonstrators with two colleagues outside of Tahir Square.

 

[mudwhistle]

Haven't you got a revolution to organize?


Idiot.

I'm experiencing a temporary shortage of followers.




Tricky.

As my former local politics mentor once noted

There's no there, there.

There will be no revolution in the USA.

A coup d' etat is possible, I suppose, but it will happen (has happened?) and really... nobody will notice much change except at the top.

If anything the USA is headed to some kind of civil war, and that likely initiated by the right, not the left.

Our gun queer population of extremists to the right are just itching for the opportunity to off their neighbors... just as soon as they think they can get away with it.

When you think of the problems that we might be facing don't think in terms of the French revolution, nor the USA revolution, either.

Think in terms of the mess we saw in Yugoslavia.

Yeah, Christians vs Muslims.

Problem is it's Muslims and Atheists that are doing most of the shooting here in the US

(See Tuscan and Ft Hood)

 

[ogibillm]

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

in what way is that a bad thing? is it a good idea to repress a minority because you don't like what they say?

 

[mudwhistle]

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

in what way is that a bad thing? is it a good idea to repress a minority because you don't like what they say?

Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?

 

[mudwhistle]

I know. Let's give Attula The Hun, the SS, the KKK, and Pol-Pot a seat at the table too

 

[JakeStarkey]

If the radical right in this country starts shooting, the left the center the responsible right will put them against the wall. End of story. They will have never have the numbers nor the nuts to try it.

 

[ogibillm]

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

in what way is that a bad thing? is it a good idea to repress a minority because you don't like what they say?

Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?

just so we're clear you're in favor of limiting the rights of people based on their political viewpoints?

does that sound like a good way to start a new democracy?

 

[saveliberty]

I'm a little confused here. Do you want us to suggest or tell other countries what to do?

Just asking.

Oh, and maybe you could spare me the constant string of liberal talking points.

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

As long as the Muslim Brotherhood is not linked to current terrorist acts why should they be excluded?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

in what way is that a bad thing? is it a good idea to repress a minority because you don't like what they say?

Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?

Then, by your reasoning, much makes great sense, of the right of the Tea Party ever comes the majority, it must be repressed by government action.

You are not even a republican constitutionalist. You are a fascist, a totalitarian, who wants your side in and the hell with everybody else. Go to.

 

[mudwhistle]

in what way is that a bad thing? is it a good idea to repress a minority because you don't like what they say?

Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?

just so we're clear you're in favor of limiting the rights of people based on their political viewpoints?

does that sound like a good way to start a new democracy?

I don't know. If their viewpoints are to commit genocide against Israel, throw women into abject slavery, and murder anyone who doesn't go along with them............yeah, I have a problem with them running the government in any capacity.

 

[mudwhistle]

I guess your Separation of Church and State argument just went down the toilet

 

[ogibillm]

Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?

just so we're clear you're in favor of limiting the rights of people based on their political viewpoints?

does that sound like a good way to start a new democracy?

I don't know. If their viewpoints are to commit genocide against Israel, throw women into abject slavery, and murder anyone who doesn't go along with them............yeah, I have a problem with them running the government in any capacity.

you'd make a wonderful dictator.

 

[FA_Q2]

Did you fall out of a stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down?

just so we're clear you're in favor of limiting the rights of people based on their political viewpoints?

does that sound like a good way to start a new democracy?

I don't know. If their viewpoints are to commit genocide against Israel, throw women into abject slavery, and murder anyone who doesn't go along with them............yeah, I have a problem with them running the government in any capacity.

Unfortunately for you, you live in a country that disagrees with this view. Here, in America, we are allowed to have ANY viewpoint and speak out politically. We can even run for office.

I know. Let's give Attula The Hun, the SS, the KKK, and Pol-Pot a seat at the table too

If they were Americans and not currently incarcerated then they already do have a voice in government and can run for office. As a matter of fact, the KKK has a voice right now.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yuu're good with it long as they ain't Christians.

 

[jckryan]

I don't have to give it a rest.

I see the hypocrisy here. Osama gave several speeches during the Egyptian riots. The Sadi King called him personally and told him to STFU and he still wouldn't stop.

Now during the Iranian riots he's totally silent and Hillary is mouthing off. Iran has been a serious problem for us since 79. Some of my buddies got shot up in Mogadishu in 93' thanks to Iranian interference. Most of the IEDs, the shape-charges that kill tanks, were made in Iran.

Give it a rest. Fuck you.

Of course he's silent - that's the smart move. If he backs the protesters, the Iranian leadership will portray them as tools of the West, and discredit them, thereby excusing them to use force.

A portion of people in Tehran will know the truth, but people spread across the country who rely on government-controlled radio and media will believe it.

You're not too bright.

You're a liberal hack that gobbles up Obama's propaganda and parrots it to anyone who'll listen.

So they didn't think the Egyptian protesters looked like tools of the West?

Anderson Cooper got several wacks up side the head from folks that were yelling anti-American bullshit. They seemed to think we were helping the revolt. They were right.

Now when it comes to an enemy Obama wants to play it safe. Instead of encouragement he disappears and wants to talk about his fucked up budget. He helps bring down an ally, a flawed ally none the less, but an ally. But our enemies, naw. Doesn't have the nuts to utter a word.

While an ally was in trouble he wouldn't shut up. He repeatedly said that the process must start NOW. I remember everyone in the administration repeating that word. Iran, later, Egypt, now.

And what does this show our friends and our enemies???

It shows them that he's gutless. He'll sneak around and undermine our allies but our enemies.....well he's just too damned scared to say, "Mr Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!!!!!"

Let's not get all Boehner (could not resist) now . . . nothing against him or the Republicans.

Take a look at the big picture.

Egypts movement was in their favor, the protesters were an overwhelming force to get Mubarak out and for Democratic changes. I'm not going out on a limb by stating they're the most educated/civil Middle Eastern country . . . besides maybe Israel . . . and therefore have an advantage over others.
We knew that we could not support the dictatorship vs. that. Do you think we should have gone "all-in" with Mubarak? It would have been the worst case scenario. "The U.S. supports Mubarak". Effigys of Obama/the Stars and Stripes would be burning and the Muslim Brotherhood minority would roll with it. It would have been a Brotherhood majority that kicked Mubarak out.

Iran is a different ball game. The protestors and the goverment/military has had a few weeks to prepare and learn from Egypt. The government is more extreme and we barely have any influence over there. Plus they have organized thugs who have no issues going ballistic on the protesters.
What are we supposed to do? Invade Iran? Put a Black Ops in to assasinate Irans Heads of State and Mullah? Do you really think they give a *#@%? about what we say regarding Iran? Iran does not have the masses like Egypt and I'm sure the goverment has put a vice on the media/internet to prevent large gatherings. They have had time to learn what works and what they can get away with.

Yemen is another prob. There is a strong Al-Queda influence there and the protesters are not looking for democracy. At least not like Egypt.

Bahrain is an ally and a strategic area for us with the ports. I'm concerned with that area and if U.S. miltary aid is requested . . . that would be tricky.

What does Obama actions (or lack of) show for the rest of our "allies" and enemies?

I know that Saudi Arabia should be considered an ally even though they produced Bin Laden, some of the 9/11 hijackers, and a couple of sheiks that may financially support questionable groups. We invested a lot in them. From training to military hardware.

Likewise with Pakistan, although some of the allegiances are not for the U.S. and there is a stronger Taliban support presence there.

Both countries are dicey should an uprising come up. Not so much the Saudis, because they got the mullah and lots of it. But the Pakis might be ugly.

Each country is case by case.

Been to Somalia and the Persian Gulf for three and half years. I know what Iran is about.

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm a little confused here. Do you want us to suggest or tell other countries what to do?

Just asking.

Oh, and maybe you could spare me the constant string of liberal talking points.

Btw, Egypt's new government has lifted the ban preventing the Muslim Brotherhood from taking part in the political process.

As long as the Muslim Brotherhood is not linked to current terrorist acts why should they be excluded?

I tend to listen and believe someone when they say they are going institute Sharia Law, which means stoning for adultery, women becoming cattle, beheadings for blasphemy, and scrapping the peace treaty with Israel.

I guess in a free country anyone can say what they want. When they start becoming part of the political process by forming a political party such as the GOP or the Democrat, and start influencing people from inside the government, it's only just a matter of time before their beliefs start becoming law.

If you want Egypt to take a huge step backwards and destabilize an important area of the Middle East, then go ahead and give them a seat.

Obama said that oil is an energy source of the past. Is this his way of assuring this happens??? Because if all hell breaks loose then I guess you might want to think of alternatives to electricity and gasoline. You won't be able to afford ether.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mudwhistle does not believe in government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Until he repudiates his statements about democracy, nothing he says needs to be considered as valuable.