Democracy, Socialism and Freedom

[Deplorable Yankee]

now you owe me one
how am i against helping people ?

 

[Ame®icano]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

Democratic socialism, what a delusion...

Delusion that, when all resources and production are owned as a commons by everyone equally and are all democratically planned and controlled through the voting process we will have peace and harmony as there will be no alienated labor, gross inequalities of wealth and power, discrimination, or brutality and violence in defense of the status quo.

Delusion that, everyone will be on the same page. You can believe that no one, absolutely no one, will put together powerful blocks of self-interested persons scrambling for power through the democratic process. After all, the prize would only be everything.You can bet this system of government won't break down in a eat-or-be-eaten struggle over political power of the property-less jungle.

Delusion that, if it does break down there will be no one to blame but ourselves. Because, it's democratic socialism. Democratic Socialism means there's no one to blame for the failure of democratic socialism but you, the voters.

 

[Ame®icano]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

In a democracy, the people rule. IF they want fascism, socialism communism, Trumpism, the popular vote will decide as in a mandate

If popular vote is to decide anything, there is no need for Congress, Senate, or President. Mob can rule themselves.

 

[Ame®icano]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

I would guess there are very few workers that have any democracy at their work place. Whatever the corporate leadership decision are made is without any input from the workers.
All they're trying to do is bring a vote to the workplace, within a market based economy.

Except, it's not.

 

[ThisIsMe]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

In a democracy, the people rule. IF they want fascism, socialism communism, Trumpism, the popular vote will decide as in a mandate

Not entirely correct but Nations that are actually responsive to the needs of the people are happier places to live.

But doesnt socialism reduce innovation and desire to better ones self? I would think if income was redistributed, people would lose the desire to do hard work, since it benefits them nothing. Am I wrong?

 

[LeftofLeft]

If you like capitalism so much you should be working to save it from itself because socialism grows only when capitalism fails. Make it work for everyone who goes to work and you have nothing to worry about from socialism.

Socialism can no longer be funded on a scalable, long-term basis when Capitalism fails.

 

[occupied]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

In a democracy, the people rule. IF they want fascism, socialism communism, Trumpism, the popular vote will decide as in a mandate

Not entirely correct but Nations that are actually responsive to the needs of the people are happier places to live.

But doesnt socialism reduce innovation and desire to better ones self? I would think if income was redistributed, people would lose the desire to do hard work, since it benefits them nothing. Am I wrong?

The reasons people find jobs, businesses or any other activity rewarding often has little to do with money and more to do with the point of their labors. No one wants to work a shit job for a shit boss for shit pay but often low paid people love their jobs because they are doing something useful. Make it so that even the toilet scrubber has a real chance of a stable home and income and they will make that toilet sparkle.

 

[occupied]

If you like capitalism so much you should be working to save it from itself because socialism grows only when capitalism fails. Make it work for everyone who goes to work and you have nothing to worry about from socialism.

Socialism can no longer be funded on a scalable, long-term basis when Capitalism fails.

That is a valid criticism, that is why most western countries are mixed economies. Take this example: No one is discussing the nationalization of the snack food industry because capitalism keeps us in a bewildering variety of affordable junk food. On the other hand. In crucial areas like geriatric medicine where a profit is difficult we must turn to subsidy and socialization. Capitalism has no answer for how to treat expensive patients who have little or no money. People talk about social programs like there is an alternative.

 

[ThisIsMe]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

In a democracy, the people rule. IF they want fascism, socialism communism, Trumpism, the popular vote will decide as in a mandate

Not entirely correct but Nations that are actually responsive to the needs of the people are happier places to live.

But doesnt socialism reduce innovation and desire to better ones self? I would think if income was redistributed, people would lose the desire to do hard work, since it benefits them nothing. Am I wrong?

The reasons people find jobs, businesses or any other activity rewarding often has little to do with money and more to do with the point of their labors. No one wants to work a shit job for a shit boss for shit pay but often low paid people love their jobs because they are doing something useful. Make it so that even the toilet scrubber has a real chance of a stable home and income and they will make that toilet sparkle.

I guess my point was, why would anyone want to do hard manual labor when they could go find easier jobs, if the basic quality of life would essentially the same?

I guess I just feel that, if people cant be rewarded for their extra efforts, why would the ditch digger keep doing what he is doing when he could just go work at a department store and maintain the same quality of life. The job would be indoors and air conditioned, and there would be significantly less wear and tear on the body.

Yes, there are some people who love what they do, and do it because of a passion for the job, but I would be interested in how many of those people are doing hot, sweaty, and back breaking work in the heat of the sun all day. Some for sure, but probably not as many as in more white collar careers.

 

[Rustic]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

 

[occupied]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

In a democracy, the people rule. IF they want fascism, socialism communism, Trumpism, the popular vote will decide as in a mandate

Not entirely correct but Nations that are actually responsive to the needs of the people are happier places to live.

But doesnt socialism reduce innovation and desire to better ones self? I would think if income was redistributed, people would lose the desire to do hard work, since it benefits them nothing. Am I wrong?

The reasons people find jobs, businesses or any other activity rewarding often has little to do with money and more to do with the point of their labors. No one wants to work a shit job for a shit boss for shit pay but often low paid people love their jobs because they are doing something useful. Make it so that even the toilet scrubber has a real chance of a stable home and income and they will make that toilet sparkle.

I guess my point was, why would anyone want to do hard manual labor when they could go find easier jobs, if the basic quality of life would essentially the same?

I guess I just feel that, if people cant be rewarded for their extra efforts, why would the ditch digger keep doing what he is doing when he could just go work at a department store and maintain the same quality of life. The job would be indoors and air conditioned, and there would be significantly less wear and tear on the body.

Yes, there are some people who love what they do, and do it because of a passion for the job, but I would be interested in how many of those people are doing hot, sweaty, and back breaking work in the heat of the sun all day. Some for sure, but probably not as many as in more white collar careers.

I absolutely love my hot sweaty outdoor in Florida job. I make enough to meet my needs and have some fun, what more could anyone want?

 

[task0778]

... And they have a small and fairly homogenous population that isn't as diverse or as contentious as America's are.

Excellent post. My apologies for the excerpt, but I felt like this was a real gem. In a large, pluralistic society, freedom isn't just a nice-to-have. It's a requirement. When a culture is made up of many, significantly different groups of people, with significantly different values, you can't expect them to all toe the same line. At that point, live and let live is the only practical option.

Totally agree, but unfortunately these days 'live and let live' is kinda the exception rather than the rule. Not always though.

About freedom, I think we Americans take it too much for granted. Not many realize how much our rights and freedoms have been diminished over the past century and then some. And usually when you move towards bigger gov't you tend to lose more rights and freedoms as the gov't creates more rules and regs. We're heading in that direction it seems to me, and it's hard to regain what you've lost.

 

[WelfareQueen]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

I would guess there are very few workers that have any democracy at their work place. Whatever the corporate leadership decision are made is without any input from the workers.
All they're trying to do is bring a vote to the workplace, within a market based economy.

You see this nitwit response trotted out by Commie Dims whenever socialism gets criticized. So to stupid Dims everywhere....


Socialism is when the State controls the means of production. Period. As in Cuba, the old Soviet Union and Venezuela. In Capitalist economies such as the United States, Sweden, Japan and much of the West the means of production is not centrally controlled by Government, but is in private hands.


Dims....I hope this clears things up.

 

[ThisIsMe]

In a democracy, the people rule. IF they want fascism, socialism communism, Trumpism, the popular vote will decide as in a mandate

Not entirely correct but Nations that are actually responsive to the needs of the people are happier places to live.

But doesnt socialism reduce innovation and desire to better ones self? I would think if income was redistributed, people would lose the desire to do hard work, since it benefits them nothing. Am I wrong?

The reasons people find jobs, businesses or any other activity rewarding often has little to do with money and more to do with the point of their labors. No one wants to work a shit job for a shit boss for shit pay but often low paid people love their jobs because they are doing something useful. Make it so that even the toilet scrubber has a real chance of a stable home and income and they will make that toilet sparkle.

I guess my point was, why would anyone want to do hard manual labor when they could go find easier jobs, if the basic quality of life would essentially the same?

I guess I just feel that, if people cant be rewarded for their extra efforts, why would the ditch digger keep doing what he is doing when he could just go work at a department store and maintain the same quality of life. The job would be indoors and air conditioned, and there would be significantly less wear and tear on the body.

Yes, there are some people who love what they do, and do it because of a passion for the job, but I would be interested in how many of those people are doing hot, sweaty, and back breaking work in the heat of the sun all day. Some for sure, but probably not as many as in more white collar careers.

I absolutely love my hot sweaty outdoor in Florida job. I make enough to meet my needs and have some fun, what more could anyone want?

Im sure you do, and that's great, but are many out there who would choose to be in a different career if they knew they could maintain the same standard of living.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The gop trolls new buzzword is “socialism “. Just ask them to provide an example of scary democrat “socialism” . They quickly scurry away .

Exactly.

Conservatives are either ignorant as to what ‘socialism’ actually is, or they know what it actually is yet propagate lies about ‘socialism’ in an effort to use it as a political weapon – attempting to exploit the ignorance and fear of voters.

No one advocates for ‘socialism,’ no one seeks to end our free market economy and replace it with ‘socialism.’

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

Nonsense.

What you need to worry about is your abject ignorance as to what ‘socialism’ actually is, along with your dishonestly, the consequence of attempting to propagate the lie that ‘socialism’ has anything to do with Democrats.

It doesn’t.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The gop trolls new buzzword is “socialism “. Just ask them to provide an example of scary democrat “socialism” . They quickly scurry away .

Listen ... I'm not interested in guessing what you mean by socialism. And I don't want to argue over definitions. So why don't you just tell me how you define it, and we'll work with that, OK?

You are the one starting threads on scary socialism taking over . You tell me !

Cause as far as I can tell Conservatives consider anything the government does that helps people = socialism .

Ok, I'll play your silly game.

"Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership and control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy, and a political philosophy advocating such a system.
"Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production[1] with an emphasis on self-management and democratic management of economic institutions within a market or some form of decentralized planned socialist economy."

Please commence with your dance.

What’s a silly game is the right’s failed attempt to apply the definition above to Democrats and liberals – neither of whom are ‘socialists.’

Democrats and liberals are advocates and defenders of a free market economy, they participate in a free market economy, and benefit from that economy.

 

[22lcidw]

The gop trolls new buzzword is “socialism “. Just ask them to provide an example of scary democrat “socialism” . They quickly scurry away .

Listen ... I'm not interested in guessing what you mean by socialism. And I don't want to argue over definitions. So why don't you just tell me how you define it, and we'll work with that, OK?

You are the one starting threads on scary socialism taking over . You tell me !

Cause as far as I can tell Conservatives consider anything the government does that helps people = socialism .

Ok, I'll play your silly game.

"Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership and control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy, and a political philosophy advocating such a system.
"Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production[1] with an emphasis on self-management and democratic management of economic institutions within a market or some form of decentralized planned socialist economy."

Please commence with your dance.

What’s a silly game is the right’s failed attempt to apply the definition above to Democrats and liberals – neither of whom are ‘socialists.’

Democrats and liberals are advocates and defenders of a free market economy, they participate in a free market economy, and benefit from that economy.

For pure socialism to work in the United States if at all, we would have to enslave the rest of the world.

 

[dblack]

What’s a silly game is the right’s failed attempt to apply the definition above to Democrats and liberals – neither of whom are ‘socialists.’

OSC much?

 

[dblack]

So it sounds like, in the next election, the two-party-system alternative to Trump will be socialism. At least that's what Democrats have been test-marketing. But this is new and improved socialism, a kinder gentler socialism they refer to as "Democratic Socialism".

They seem to think the "democratic" qualifier makes it all good. But the blind adherence to democracy as a universal good is exactly what bothers me about it. Democracy is a reasonable way to make decisions when conformity is required, when it's crucial that we're all on the same page. But when that's not required, it's just the majority bullying the minority for convenience sake.

Democratic socialism radically expands the scope and power of government. It applies the principle of majority rule to our economic decisions and, by extension, to every decision we make. If the government controls your income and your economic transactions, they control pretty much everything you do.

I suppose I shouldn't worry about it. I won't have to live with the results (for very long at least). The millennials will have to pick up the pieces. I've been dodging cops most of my life and don't mind living under the radar. I guess I'll make popcorn and watch the shit hit the fan.

Nonsense.

What you need to worry about is your abject ignorance as to what ‘socialism’ actually is,

When I talk about socialism, I'm using uncontroversial, basic dictionary definitions, like I posted elsewhere. So stuff your pompous accusations of ignorance up your fat ass. If you don't like those definitions I posted, make up your own. Just tell me what your definition is and we'll work with that. Or, keep equivocating. Your call.

... the lie that ‘socialism’ has anything to do with Democrats.

It doesn’t.

They why are they talking about it so much?

Regardless of the official party stance, "democratic socialism" is something young Democrats are talking about a lot. Even older pundits are recognizing it as a trend in the party. You're living in denial.