Dems want Laws changed after Rittenhouse shootings. Are vigilantes the answer? (Poll)

[easyt65]

Democrats on the Sunday morning shows, as well as many others want laws changed so that law abiding citizens can't defend themselves from criminals.
In SF gangs of looters emptied Louis Vitton and other high-end stores. What if Louis hired a few armed vigilantes?
In Philadelphia, a mom and baby were killed coming home from a baby shower,
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRAT'S OUTRAGE???????????????.

Pregnant Woman Shot, Killed Returning Home From Her Baby Shower, Philadelphia Police Say

A pregnant woman is dead after a shooting in the Crescentville section of Philadelphia.

philadelphia.cbslocal.com

NYC Mayor DeBlasio said the Rittenhouse verdict "sends a horrible message"...
De Blasio joins NY’s left in raging over Kyle Rittenhouse — as NYPD on alert for potential unrest
“This verdict is disgusting and it sends a horrible message to this country. Where is the justice in this,” de Blasio tweeted after the 18-year-old defendant was cleared of all charges in the deaths of two men and the wounding of a third during racially charged violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in 2020."

Biden, Adams, Sharpton and others weigh in on Rittenhouse verdict

The acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse in a Kenosha, Wis., courtroom sparked plenty of opinions on Friday — divided in the same way the country is. The baby-faced gunman, who killed two men and wounded a third at a Black Lives Matter protest last year, was hailed as a hero in right-wing circles...

news.yahoo.com

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) tweeted, “It’s time to dismantle systemic racism & fundamentally transform our broken justice system.”

California Gov. Gavin Newsom worried about the precedent set by the Rittenhouse case.
“America today: you can break the law, carry around weapons built for a military, shoot and kill people, and get away with it,” the Democrat tweeted. “That’s the message we’ve just sent to armed vigilantes across the nation.”


What if neighborhoods organized vigilantes to shoot criminals in their neighborhoods, today's version of a "well regulated militia"? Would urban gang shootings stop?

Lets take a poll on what should happen when pols and DAs stop police from arresting and prosecuting violent criminals.

Should vigilantes fill the gap and protect neighborhoods from criminals?

[The OP and thread title are now better aligned, sorry for the closure of the first thread discussion]

'Vigilante' or 'Private Security'?

If I am guarding my own store with a weapon, I want a law stating I have just as much right to shoot a looted as I do if they were to break into my home.

If I am guarding my own store with a weapon. I am not a 'vigilante'. I am a citizen, a business owner.

If I own my own business and I hire security guards, I want them to have the right to carry weapons not only to protect my business but themselves as well.

Kyle Rittenhouse was an immature kid with a desire to 'stop bad people from doing bad things' and 'provide medical attention' to those that needed it.
1. He was not acting as private security, not being paid by any business to protect it. Although Rittenhiuse did nit consider himself to be a 'vigilante', I'm sure, that's technically what he was.
- He did not consider all the possible things that could happen that night by showing up with an AR-15. He found out too late.
2. He was / is not a medic. Cuts, scrapes - he could give people band-aids, maybe wrap a superficial would with some gause, but anything more than that was beyond his ability; yet he saw himself as someone who could do much more (it seemed).

Car-jackings
Thieves following people home
Planned looting raids on high-end stores
People - kids - being gunned down...

Democrats seem to be worried more about the poor, economically downtrodden, deprived, violent gang members, looters, thieves, muggers, rapists, pedophiles, and murderers instead on innocent American citizens....

These George Soros-backed DAS letting violent criminals back on the streets only to have them prey on others damn-near immediately need to be either 1) gone in 2) held a countable.
- If you let them out & they commit crimes the DAs can get sued / be charged.

...but I digress. If law and order is not restored 'vigilates', people defending themselves like in the 'old west' will increase / become the norm.

 

[JoeB131]

No......the democrats keep releasing the most violent criminals that we keep catching over and over again...that isn't the answer...keeping the violent gun offenders locked up for long periods of time actually is the answer....

We lock up nearly 2 million people. If locking people up was the answer, we'd be there by now.

 

[2aguy]

We lock up nearly 2 million people. If locking people up was the answer, we'd be there by now.

The democrats keep releasing the most violent criminals who are the ones responsible for our violent crime problem........

It isn't locking them up if they keep letting them out.

 

[JoeB131]

Democrats seem to be worried more about the poor, economically downtrodden, deprived, violent gang members, looters, thieves, muggers, rapists, pedophiles, and murderers instead on innocent American citizens....

No, guy, we just recognize that if you have a permanent underclass of desperate people, and give them easy access to guns, you are going to have crime. The problem is not giving the assholes more guns and turning our shopping malls into shooting galleries.

There are five major drivers of Crime in the US that other industrialized countries don't have.

1) Racism
2) Poverty
3) Mental Illness
4) Addiction
5) Gun Proliferation

The Europeans and Japan don't have these problems. They don't have the race problems because they are largely mono-cultures. They don't have the poverty, mental health and addiction problems because they have extensive government programs to deal with those things. And they don't have the gun problem because they realize that not everyone should have a gun.

 

[2aguy]

No, guy, we just recognize that if you have a permanent underclass of desperate people, and give them easy access to guns, you are going to have crime. The problem is not giving the assholes more guns and turning our shopping malls into shooting galleries.

There are five major drivers of Crime in the US that other industrialized countries don't have.

1) Racism
2) Poverty
3) Mental Illness
4) Addiction
5) Gun Proliferation

The Europeans and Japan don't have these problems. They don't have the race problems because they are largely mono-cultures. They don't have the poverty, mental health and addiction problems because they have extensive government programs to deal with those things. And they don't have the gun problem because they realize that not everyone should have a gun.

There is one driver of crime...broken homes. Fatherless homes create crime and poverty and addiction....the democrat party promotes broken homes, then keep releasing the violent criminals they create.

 

[2aguy]

No, guy, we just recognize that if you have a permanent underclass of desperate people, and give them easy access to guns, you are going to have crime. The problem is not giving the assholes more guns and turning our shopping malls into shooting galleries.

There are five major drivers of Crime in the US that other industrialized countries don't have.

1) Racism
2) Poverty
3) Mental Illness
4) Addiction
5) Gun Proliferation

The Europeans and Japan don't have these problems. They don't have the race problems because they are largely mono-cultures. They don't have the poverty, mental health and addiction problems because they have extensive government programs to deal with those things. And they don't have the gun problem because they realize that not everyone should have a gun.

Out of wedlock birthrate among American blacks...over 75%.

Young black males make up 7% of our population but commit over 50% of all murder......and are the victims in the majority of murder...

 

[JoeB131]

The democrats keep releasing the most violent criminals who are the ones responsible for our violent crime problem........

It isn't locking them up if they keep letting them out.

The problem is inevitably, you HAVE to let some of them out. If you only have 2 million jail cells and you have 100 million Americans with police records, with 7 million on probation or parole, you are going to inevitably have someone who wasn't in jail doing something bad.

In many ways, the problem is self-perpetuating. The kid who gets into some trouble on a petty beef has that follow him around for the rest of his life when he tries to get a job or a loan... and then you act all surprised when he goes back to crime.

 

[easyt65]

I'll try to find the video and post it, but there is a video of a small group of Taliban in an alley in Afghanistan with American soldiers coming down the street.

Across from the alley an old man was walking down the street carrying a large bundle on his back with an AK-47 strapped over the shoulder.
- This was during the war, and these villagers were sick and tired of the fighting and the Taliban.

As the Taliban prepared for the ambush the ild man suddenly dropped the bundle he was carrying, 'unslung' the AK-47, gunned down the Taliban, replaced his gun over his shoulder, picked up the heavy pack, never saying a word, and continued down the street.

My point here is if law and order is not restored, if the govt can't do it,if cops cannot do it, you might start seeing citizens so sick of the thugs, gangs, thieves, pedos, rapists, murderers that they just hun them down, take back their streets, just like the old Afghani did.

 

[2aguy]

The problem is inevitably, you HAVE to let some of them out. If you only have 2 million jail cells and you have 100 million Americans with police records, with 7 million on probation or parole, you are going to inevitably have someone who wasn't in jail doing something bad.

In many ways, the problem is self-perpetuating. The kid who gets into some trouble on a petty beef has that follow him around for the rest of his life when he tries to get a job or a loan... and then you act all surprised when he goes back to crime.

No...you don't.....30 years for illegal gun possession by a convicted felon...dries up gun crime 95% over night. 30 years of the thug not shooting people.

 

[Kondor3]

Democrats on the Sunday morning shows, as well as many others want laws changed so that law abiding citizens can't defend themselves from criminals.
In SF gangs of looters emptied Louis Vitton and other high-end stores. What if Louis hired a few armed vigilantes?
In Philadelphia, a mom and baby were killed coming home from a baby shower,
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRAT'S OUTRAGE???????????????.

Pregnant Woman Shot, Killed Returning Home From Her Baby Shower, Philadelphia Police Say

A pregnant woman is dead after a shooting in the Crescentville section of Philadelphia.

philadelphia.cbslocal.com

NYC Mayor DeBlasio said the Rittenhouse verdict "sends a horrible message"...
De Blasio joins NY’s left in raging over Kyle Rittenhouse — as NYPD on alert for potential unrest
“This verdict is disgusting and it sends a horrible message to this country. Where is the justice in this,” de Blasio tweeted after the 18-year-old defendant was cleared of all charges in the deaths of two men and the wounding of a third during racially charged violence in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in 2020."

Biden, Adams, Sharpton and others weigh in on Rittenhouse verdict

The acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse in a Kenosha, Wis., courtroom sparked plenty of opinions on Friday — divided in the same way the country is. The baby-faced gunman, who killed two men and wounded a third at a Black Lives Matter protest last year, was hailed as a hero in right-wing circles...

news.yahoo.com

"Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) tweeted, “It’s time to dismantle systemic racism & fundamentally transform our broken justice system.”

California Gov. Gavin Newsom worried about the precedent set by the Rittenhouse case.
“America today: you can break the law, carry around weapons built for a military, shoot and kill people, and get away with it,” the Democrat tweeted. “That’s the message we’ve just sent to armed vigilantes across the nation.”


What if neighborhoods organized vigilantes to shoot criminals in their neighborhoods, today's version of a "well regulated militia"? Would urban gang shootings stop?

Lets take a poll on what should happen when pols and DAs stop police from arresting and prosecuting violent criminals.

Should vigilantes fill the gap and protect neighborhoods from criminals?

[The OP and thread title are now better aligned, sorry for the closure of the first thread discussion]

Insofar as these race-baiting rioters and now, gangs of smash-and-grab looters, are concerned... a bullet to the brain will fix 'em right up...

 

[JoeB131]

There is one driver of crime...broken homes. Fatherless homes create crime and poverty and addiction....the democrat party promotes broken homes, then keep releasing the violent criminals they create.

Not this tired lie again.

If that were the case all these white people who are part of the 50% of families that get divorced would be part of a crime wave.

And I don't think you are going to be able to change that. What are you going to do, change the divorce laws so you can't get a divorce? Force guys to marry their baby-mamas? Jesus fucking Christ, man, that would probably INCREASE the murder rate.

Out of wedlock birthrate among American blacks...over 75%.

Young black males make up 7% of our population but commit over 50% of all murder......and are the victims in the majority of murder...

Out of wedlock doesn't mean fatherless. Also, the OOW birth rate for blacks is 69%, not over 75%.

40% of ALL Americans are born out of wedlock now. Up from 28% in 1990.

Dramatic increase in the proportion of births outside of marriage in the United States from 1990 to 2016 - Child Trends

www.childtrends.org

Compound that with the fact that the 50% of marriages end in divorce.

Divorce Statistics and Facts | What Affects Divorce Rates in the U.S.?

We found every divorce statistic, study and fact you need to know - over 115 in all. Find out what impacts divorce (spoiler: almost everything).

www.wf-lawyers.com

By the logic you've just stated, crime should be getting worse, not better, as 70% of All children will be growing up in a "fatherless" home...

No, buddy, ridding ourselves of the obsolete notions of "marriage" is not the issue here.

It's the poverty, the racism, the addiction, and the easy access to guns.

 

[JoeB131]

No...you don't.....30 years for illegal gun possession by a convicted felon...dries up gun crime 95% over night. 30 years of the thug not shooting people.

Okay, except you'd have to lock up 20 million people if that became the standard, and frankly, I don't want to pay for that...

100 million Americans have a police record. We can't lock them all up.

 

[2aguy]

Not this tired lie again.

If that were the case all these white people who are part of the 50% of families that get divorced would be part of a crime wave.

And I don't think you are going to be able to change that. What are you going to do, change the divorce laws so you can't get a divorce? Force guys to marry their baby-mamas? Jesus fucking Christ, man, that would probably INCREASE the murder rate.



Out of wedlock doesn't mean fatherless. Also, the OOW birth rate for blacks is 69%, not over 75%.

40% of ALL Americans are born out of wedlock now. Up from 28% in 1990.

Dramatic increase in the proportion of births outside of marriage in the United States from 1990 to 2016 - Child Trends

www.childtrends.org

Compound that with the fact that the 50% of marriages end in divorce.

Divorce Statistics and Facts | What Affects Divorce Rates in the U.S.?

We found every divorce statistic, study and fact you need to know - over 115 in all. Find out what impacts divorce (spoiler: almost everything).

www.wf-lawyers.com

By the logic you've just stated, crime should be getting worse, not better, as 70% of All children will be growing up in a "fatherless" home...

No, buddy, ridding ourselves of the obsolete notions of "marriage" is not the issue here.

It's the poverty, the racism, the addiction, and the easy access to guns.

You are wrong...

Crime linked to absent fathers

Having a biological father who maintained a close relationship with his son, whether or not he lived in the family home, might be crucial in preventing susceptible boys becoming criminals, research presented yesterday suggested.

But stepfathers appeared to do little to decrease the risk that a boy will turn to crime, the conference of the British Psychological Society's division of forensic psychology heard in Birmingham.

The study by the clinical psychologist Jenny Taylor looked at why a proportion of boys with all the "risk factors" associated with criminal behaviour resisted a life of crime.

Drawing on data from socially deprived areas of south London, she compared a group of "good boys", who had no criminal convictions and had caused teachers no trouble, with a group of "bad boys" at a secure unit for unmanageable adolescents, many of them persisitent offenders convicted of sexual assault, theft and stealing vehicles.

All 68 boys, aged between 12 and 16, were from working class backgrounds, had lower than average intellectual ability, had similar problems with their peers and with hyperactivity, had equally large families, and in both groups 40% suffered from dyslexia.


NCJRS Abstract - National Criminal Justice Reference Service

The Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency reports that the most reliable indicator of violent crime in a community is the proportion of fatherless families.

Fathers typically offer economic stability, a role model for boys, greater household security, and reduced stress for mothers. This is especially true for families with adolescent boys, the most crime-prone cohort. Children from single-parent families are more prone than children from two-parent families to use drugs, be gang members, be expelled from school, be committed to reform institutions, and become juvenile murderers. Single parenthood inevitably reduces the amount of time a child has in interaction with someone who is attentive to the child's needs, including the provision of moral guidance and discipline.


According to a 1993 Metropolitan Life Survey, "Violence in America's Public Schools," 71 percent of teachers and 90 percent of law enforcement officials state that the lack of parental supervision at home is a major factor that contributes to the violence in schools. Sixty-one percent of elementary students and 76 percent of secondary children agree with this assessment.

 

[easyt65]

Know why there is mass looting allowed in California?

Because f*-up Democrats TOLD thugs and criminals, "You are now free to steal anything you want as long as the total cost is less than 'x' amount!"
- The politicians, DAS, and laws are creating the lawlessness.

In Saudi if you steal you get a hand cut off.
- Guess what?! There's a helluva lot less stealing.

You put an armed security guard in one of these stores, and when a group of looters run through the store that guard shoots one of the 1st ones through the door the rest will run.

Rescind dumbass law telling looters they can steal.. Put out word that looters will be shot. 1 or 2 stores, 1 or 2 times shooting looters - would be all it takes to end that bullshit.

 

[2aguy]

Okay, except you'd have to lock up 20 million people if that became the standard, and frankly, I don't want to pay for that...

100 million Americans have a police record. We can't lock them all up.

No....you would lock up known, violent criminals caught carrying illegal guns............

 

[2aguy]

Okay, except you'd have to lock up 20 million people if that became the standard, and frankly, I don't want to pay for that...

100 million Americans have a police record. We can't lock them all up.

You don't know what you are talking about...

The Real Root Causes of Violent Crime: The Breakdown of Marriage, Family, and Community

A review of the empirical evidence in the professional literature of the social sciences gives policymakers an insight into the root causes of crime. Consider, for instance:

• Over the past thirty years, the rise in violent crime parallels the rise in families abandoned by fathers.
• High-crime neighborhoods are characterized by high concentrations of families abandoned by fathers.
• State-by-state analysis by Heritage scholars indicates that a 10 percent increase in the percentage of children living in single-parent homes leads typically to a 17 percent increase in juvenile crime.
• The rate of violent teenage crime corresponds with the number of families abandoned by fathers.
• The type of aggression and hostility demonstrated by a future criminal often is foreshadowed in unusual aggressiveness as early as age five or six.
• The future criminal tends to be an individual rejected by other children as early as the first grade who goes on to form his own group of friends, often the future delinquent gang.

On the other hand:

• Neighborhoods with a high degree of religious practice are not high-crime neighborhoods.
• Even in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods, well over 90 percent of children from safe, stable homes do not become delinquents. By contrast only 10 percent of children from unsafe, unstable homes in these neighborhoods avoid crime.
• Criminals capable of sustaining marriage gradually move away from a life of crime after they get married.
• The mother's strong affectionate attachment to her child is the child's best buffer against a life of crime.
• The father's authority and involvement in raising his children are also a great buffer against a life of crime.

The scholarly evidence, in short, suggests that at the heart of the explosion of crime in America is the loss of the capacity of fathers and mothers to be responsible in caring for the children they bring into the world.

This loss of love and guidance at the intimate levels of marriage and family has broad social consequences for children and for the wider community.

The empirical evidence shows that too many young men and women from broken families tend to have a much weaker sense of connection with their neighborhood and are prone to exploit its members to satisfy their unmet needs or desires.

This contributes to a loss of a sense of community and to the disintegration of neighborhoods into social chaos and violent crime. If policymakers are to deal with the root causes of crime, therefore, they must deal with the rapid rise of illegitimacy.

 

[easyt65]

Okay, except you'd have to lock up 20 million people if that became the standard, and frankly, I don't want to pay for that...

100 million Americans have a police record. We can't lock them all up.

In some foreign countries if you commit a crime and go to jail if your family does not feed you / pay for you to be fed you starve.

I have no problem with instituting that for the worst criminals we have....or bring back the chain gangs - hard labor. Work to pay off your stay....fixing roads, cleaning up communities. Why do criminals get better gyms than most people have, get to sit on their ass watching TV, etc... Put them to work paying off their debt to society.

 

[JoeB131]

You are wrong...

You are wrong...

Whatever, guy. We aren't going to force people to be parents if they don't want to. Shit your side wants to ban abortion and inflict MORE unwanted kids on the country.

No....you would lock up known, violent criminals caught carrying illegal guns............

Except we dont have the jail cells for that. I mean, I know when you say that, you mean, "Lock up the darkies", because you'd be the first one screaming your fucking head off if the ATF started going after white people's guns.

You don't know what you are talking about...

The point is, 70% of kids are going to grow up in single parent households. And there isn't much you can do to change that. It's easier to make a baby than it is to maintain a relationship.

with 40% of kids being born out of wedlock, and 50% of marriages ending in divorce, we'd better find other solutions, because it's not like the government is going to start compelling marriage.

 

[JoeB131]

In some foreign countries if you commit a crime and go to jail if your family does not feed you / pay for you to be fed you starve.

Which countries are those? Name them?

Here's the thing. Our Peer Group are the G-7 countries - Canada, Germany, UK, France, Italy, and Japan.

None of those countries locks up more than 100,000 people. They also severely limit who can own a gun. And for 2TinyGuy's edification, most of them have an out of wedlock birth rate that is as high as ours. In fact, France has a OOW birth rate of 60%

Infographic: Where babies are born outside of marriage

This chart shows the share of babies born outside of marriage in EU countries.

www.statista.com

Now if prisons and guns were the answer, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the G-7, not the highest.

I have no problem with instituting that for the worst criminals we have....or bring back the chain gangs - hard labor. Work to pay off your stay....fixing roads, cleaning up communities. Why do criminals get better gyms than most people have, get to sit on their ass watching TV, etc... Put them to work paying off their debt to society.

Uh, guy, we already have a Prison Industrial Complex, where prison labor is used more extensively than the ineffective chain gang.

Seriously, you clowns talk about prisons like they are resorts or something.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't know what you are talking about...

Hey, DickTiny, did you know that most European Nations have a higher Out of Wedlock BIrth Rate than the US?

Infographic: Where babies are born outside of marriage

This chart shows the share of babies born outside of marriage in EU countries.

www.statista.com

France has an out of wedlock birthrate of 60%!!! So by the logic you've just stated, France should be overrun with crime!!!

Oh, wait, it isn't. How can this be?

So let's roll that beautiful bean footage of the other G-7 Countries.

France - 60%
UK - 47%
USA - 40%
Germany - 34%
Italy -34%
Canada - 30%
Japan - >1%

So by your logic, if the source of crime is unmarried parents, France and the UK have much higher rates and most of the other G-7 Countries aren't far behind.

The exception is Japan, where Gender equality is nowhere near what it is in the west.