Deuteronomy 13:6-11

[SweetSue92]

So nothing is objective in your worldview.

So here we have a Pilate, asking "What is truth?"....while looking Truth in the eye.

Tragic. But now it happens all the time.

Truth is discovered. Often times through a conflict and confusion process.

Once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way. In other words, truth is eternal and unchanging.

Hence, ancient man’s belief that God is truth.

If truth is truth it doesn't matter how you come upon it. The "journey" is insignificant. It is. You can climb it or bash your head against it or shipwreck against it. So what. It still is. It might change YOU. It does nothing to the truth.

Don't overplay your hand here. Or humanity's hand.

You are correct that the most important part is that it is eventually discovered but it can also be lost once it is found.

To say it doesn’t matter how it is discovered though is a stretch. I believe it does matter.

For one it requires certain attributes which can be cultivated. The more we cultivate those attributes the better versions of ourself we can become. For another it opens the door for learning and teaching moments. It’s pretty important to be able to logically analyze how things got sideways so that it is easier to put things right and prevent slippage in the future.

All of that is modern man's ego. And our ego, trust me, is big enough.

The truth is much more important than whatever journey we took to get to it. We are forever fixated on the journey. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in now.

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

 

[diver52]

You standard of morality is the effects of an action causes more or less suffering. You might also say more or less happiness. All of those terms, "more", "less", "greater", "lesser" are comparative. If I ask you which number has a greater value, 7 - it makes no sense. You have to have at least one more number in order to make that comparison. Otherwise, all you have is 7. Neither greater nor lesser. Neutral.

Now apply that to your standard. You make the decision to take action A (the cause). You then apply whatever method you are going to use to evaluate the effects arising from that action. But that is just one set of effects. The fact that you made the decision to take action A means that you did not take action B. You can expand that out to an infinite number of other actions, but the result will always be the same. You can only take one action. Since you didn't take action B, the effects that might have arisen from that action never occurred. You cannot objectively evaluate what never happened. You can only guess.

This means the effects of every action stand alone. There is no other set of effects to which to compare them. Like our number 7, they just are. Neither greater nor lesser. Thus all actions can only be deemed morally neutral.

This is why your concept of morality is physically impossible.

Im sorry. I addressed this in my previous post that you only gave a 1 sentence answer to.

2 plus 2 is going to equal 4 tomorrow.

A nuclear bomb is going to destroy x-area of earth, measurable by scientific calculation.

Light will travel at the same speed, its a constant.

All this weird talk about how we cannot objectively evaluate the future effects of causes is non-sensical...the laws of logic(as I described in the previous post) already answer this objection.

If you touch 500degrees bare-skinned, you will be burned. You dont need to touch it to objectively determine that.

if i put a stick of dynamite into 4 hearts and blow the stick apart, 4 heart bearers will die.

if i go under water with no air and stay there long enough...i will die.

None of that responds to the problem. You are going to apply tests to measure suffering. How are you going to apply those tests to suffering that never happened?

It addresses it directly. By examining suffering thats already occurred, and applying the scientific method...we come up with accurate predictions of the future.

No, you can't. The very notion is ludicrous. Not least because you are not predicting the future. You are predicting what would have happened in the past had you done something else. You are assuming that the results of one decision will be the same as the results of an entirely different decision.

If you had tripped on a crack in the sidewalk yesterday, what would your injuries have been and how much would you have suffered?

That's super short-sighted, I dont know what else to tell you. Science is literally based on future testable predictions. And tripping on the sidewalk is not a behavior choice...so it's amoral. Not moral or immoral.

Why don't you go drown yourself if you don't think you head under water for 25 minutes with no oxygen will do what it's done to people for eternity. Live that weird shit you're preaching.

So you can't predict. Which is the fatal flaw in your position. I will say to you what I have said to others with similar positions. Science makes a lousy religion.

 

[G.T.]

Im sorry. I addressed this in my previous post that you only gave a 1 sentence answer to.

2 plus 2 is going to equal 4 tomorrow.

A nuclear bomb is going to destroy x-area of earth, measurable by scientific calculation.

Light will travel at the same speed, its a constant.

All this weird talk about how we cannot objectively evaluate the future effects of causes is non-sensical...the laws of logic(as I described in the previous post) already answer this objection.

If you touch 500degrees bare-skinned, you will be burned. You dont need to touch it to objectively determine that.

if i put a stick of dynamite into 4 hearts and blow the stick apart, 4 heart bearers will die.

if i go under water with no air and stay there long enough...i will die.

None of that responds to the problem. You are going to apply tests to measure suffering. How are you going to apply those tests to suffering that never happened?

It addresses it directly. By examining suffering thats already occurred, and applying the scientific method...we come up with accurate predictions of the future.

No, you can't. The very notion is ludicrous. Not least because you are not predicting the future. You are predicting what would have happened in the past had you done something else. You are assuming that the results of one decision will be the same as the results of an entirely different decision.

If you had tripped on a crack in the sidewalk yesterday, what would your injuries have been and how much would you have suffered?

That's super short-sighted, I dont know what else to tell you. Science is literally based on future testable predictions. And tripping on the sidewalk is not a behavior choice...so it's amoral. Not moral or immoral.

Why don't you go drown yourself if you don't think you head under water for 25 minutes with no oxygen will do what it's done to people for eternity. Live that weird shit you're preaching.

So you can't predict. Which is the fatal flaw in your position. I will say to you what I have said to others with similar positions. Science makes a lousy religion.

Can predict. Not cant. I know that if a pile of TNT goes off inside of my mouth, I will die.

I know that adding two things to two things will make 4 things.

Im not sure what the fuck kinda special logic youre using, but it's most certainly not anything you're demonstrating. Is math going to stop working in 5 minutes? If you think that we cannot know that thats not the case, you are brain damaged.

 

[ding]

Truth is discovered. Often times through a conflict and confusion process.

Once discovered it is known that it was always that way and will always be that way. In other words, truth is eternal and unchanging.

Hence, ancient man’s belief that God is truth.

If truth is truth it doesn't matter how you come upon it. The "journey" is insignificant. It is. You can climb it or bash your head against it or shipwreck against it. So what. It still is. It might change YOU. It does nothing to the truth.

Don't overplay your hand here. Or humanity's hand.

You are correct that the most important part is that it is eventually discovered but it can also be lost once it is found.

To say it doesn’t matter how it is discovered though is a stretch. I believe it does matter.

For one it requires certain attributes which can be cultivated. The more we cultivate those attributes the better versions of ourself we can become. For another it opens the door for learning and teaching moments. It’s pretty important to be able to logically analyze how things got sideways so that it is easier to put things right and prevent slippage in the future.

All of that is modern man's ego. And our ego, trust me, is big enough.

The truth is much more important than whatever journey we took to get to it. We are forever fixated on the journey. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in now.

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

[SweetSue92]

If truth is truth it doesn't matter how you come upon it. The "journey" is insignificant. It is. You can climb it or bash your head against it or shipwreck against it. So what. It still is. It might change YOU. It does nothing to the truth.

Don't overplay your hand here. Or humanity's hand.

You are correct that the most important part is that it is eventually discovered but it can also be lost once it is found.

To say it doesn’t matter how it is discovered though is a stretch. I believe it does matter.

For one it requires certain attributes which can be cultivated. The more we cultivate those attributes the better versions of ourself we can become. For another it opens the door for learning and teaching moments. It’s pretty important to be able to logically analyze how things got sideways so that it is easier to put things right and prevent slippage in the future.

All of that is modern man's ego. And our ego, trust me, is big enough.

The truth is much more important than whatever journey we took to get to it. We are forever fixated on the journey. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in now.

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

 

[ding]

You are correct that the most important part is that it is eventually discovered but it can also be lost once it is found.

To say it doesn’t matter how it is discovered though is a stretch. I believe it does matter.

For one it requires certain attributes which can be cultivated. The more we cultivate those attributes the better versions of ourself we can become. For another it opens the door for learning and teaching moments. It’s pretty important to be able to logically analyze how things got sideways so that it is easier to put things right and prevent slippage in the future.

All of that is modern man's ego. And our ego, trust me, is big enough.

The truth is much more important than whatever journey we took to get to it. We are forever fixated on the journey. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in now.

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

 

[SweetSue92]

All of that is modern man's ego. And our ego, trust me, is big enough.

The truth is much more important than whatever journey we took to get to it. We are forever fixated on the journey. It's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in now.

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

 

[ding]

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

 

[ding]

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Even suffer self righteous judgmental people such as yourself.

 

[SweetSue92]

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

View attachment 283128

We were discussing truth. Not the sinfulness of man or the Judgment of nations. Remember?

 

[SweetSue92]

I understand, believe me, your perspective. It is human-centered, with the journey as idol. I understand. The point of God is to go along on your journey of self-discovery. God is a means to an end; when you find Him, what you really find is YOUR OWN "enlightenment".

Sure. I get it.

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Even suffer self righteous judgmental people such as yourself.

ding your ideas are popular right now, so you are used to having them fluffed up. That is all. Judgmental? Yes. Self-righteous? Nope. I am not righteous. But God is, and He needs no "journey" to be truth. Truth is not, and never was, and never will be, a "journey".

 

[ding]

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

View attachment 283128

We were discussing truth. Not the sinfulness of man or the Judgment of nations. Remember?

Right and in that discussion you argued that it doesn't matter how we arrive at truth and I argued that it does.

I used this to make my point:

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

That's when you questioned my motivation. So I showed you my belief is based upon biblical truths. Then I showed you my motivation. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Are you going to keep arguing?

 

[ding]

If that’s what you believe I believe, you don’t got it.

You only think you know what I believe. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Even suffer self righteous judgmental people such as yourself.

ding your ideas are popular right now, so you are used to having them fluffed up. That is all. Judgmental? Yes. Self-righteous? Nope. I am not righteous. But God is, and He needs no "journey" to be truth. Truth is not, and never was, and never will be, a "journey".

Truth is discovered. It matters how we discover it. Because everything we do matters.

My beliefs are timeless and they were discovered through prayer and self reflection. You think believing I can do all things through Christ is a popular belief? Have you looked around?

 

[SweetSue92]

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

View attachment 283128

We were discussing truth. Not the sinfulness of man or the Judgment of nations. Remember?

Right and in that discussion you argued that it doesn't matter how we arrive at truth and I argued that it does.

I used this to make my point:

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

That's when you questioned my motivation. So I showed you my belief is based upon biblical truths. Then I showed you my motivation. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Are you going to keep arguing?

It's because in my other interactions with you I have come away with the impression that you are a "take it or leave it" Bible believer. In that case, indeed, you are vetoing Truth. Indeed, your journey is, in essence, paramount. So, your words do indeed take precedent over what God has presented as Truth. Yes?

You will undoubtedly call me "self-righteous" for pointing this out, but it is not. If God is who He says He is, He actually has all knowledge. I do not. I can not stand in judgment of HIM. My journey is not paramount to His truth, even if His truth seems confusing to me at the outset.

 

[SweetSue92]

It is implicit in your last few posts, absolutely.

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Even suffer self righteous judgmental people such as yourself.

ding your ideas are popular right now, so you are used to having them fluffed up. That is all. Judgmental? Yes. Self-righteous? Nope. I am not righteous. But God is, and He needs no "journey" to be truth. Truth is not, and never was, and never will be, a "journey".

Truth is discovered. It matters how we discover it. Because everything we do matters.

My beliefs are timeless and they were discovered through prayer and self reflection. You think believing I can do all things through Christ is a popular belief? Have you looked around?

And even here, you are overriding what God says about His own Truth. Everything we do matters? Says who? Says you, or God?

If God is who He says He is, then what HE said we do matters TO HIM, or does not. IOW it makes no nevermind if it's meaningful to you if you are passing away. It makes a difference if it's meaningful to the ultimate meaning-maker, and if He's keeping that meaning for eternity. Or not.

 

[ding]

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

View attachment 283128

We were discussing truth. Not the sinfulness of man or the Judgment of nations. Remember?

Right and in that discussion you argued that it doesn't matter how we arrive at truth and I argued that it does.

I used this to make my point:

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

That's when you questioned my motivation. So I showed you my belief is based upon biblical truths. Then I showed you my motivation. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Are you going to keep arguing?

It's because in my other interactions with you I have come away with the impression that you are a "take it or leave it" Bible believer. In that case, indeed, you are vetoing Truth. Indeed, your journey is, in essence, paramount. So, your words do indeed take precedent over what God has presented as Truth. Yes?

You will undoubtedly call me "self-righteous" for pointing this out, but it is not. If God is who He says He is, He actually has all knowledge. I do not. I can not stand in judgment of HIM. My journey is not paramount to His truth, even if His truth seems confusing to me at the outset.

It seems I am not Christian enough for your tastes. I don't need to beat people up with the Bible. But I can assure you that my understanding of his words are deep.

Everyone's journey is paramount. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me still means I have to do those things. God won't do them for me.

But hey, thanks for accusing me of placing myself above God. Again, that's your pride talking.

 

[ding]

No. That's your pride talking.

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Even suffer self righteous judgmental people such as yourself.

ding your ideas are popular right now, so you are used to having them fluffed up. That is all. Judgmental? Yes. Self-righteous? Nope. I am not righteous. But God is, and He needs no "journey" to be truth. Truth is not, and never was, and never will be, a "journey".

Truth is discovered. It matters how we discover it. Because everything we do matters.

My beliefs are timeless and they were discovered through prayer and self reflection. You think believing I can do all things through Christ is a popular belief? Have you looked around?

And even here, you are overriding what God says about His own Truth. Everything we do matters? Says who? Says you, or God?

If God is who He says He is, then what HE said we do matters TO HIM, or does not. IOW it makes no nevermind if it's meaningful to you if you are passing away. It makes a difference if it's meaningful to the ultimate meaning-maker, and if He's keeping that meaning for eternity. Or not.

Ummmm... God says everything we do matters, dear. You think he is an ends justifies the means kind of God?

And here you are accusing me of putting myself above God again.

 

[ding]

Confirming One’s Calling and Election
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1

See? What we do matters. God isn't going to do this for us. We have to do it for ourselves. It is literally a progression; a journey.

 

[SweetSue92]

Not at all. I just read what you typed. That's all.

View attachment 283128

We were discussing truth. Not the sinfulness of man or the Judgment of nations. Remember?

Right and in that discussion you argued that it doesn't matter how we arrive at truth and I argued that it does.

I used this to make my point:

Let me put this in a Biblical perspective for you so that it might be easier to relate to.

When man becomes satisfied he becomes proud and forgets God’s ways. Then he fails and suffers. But from that suffering he is forced to return to God’s successful ways and he rises again. Only to later become satisfied and proud and begin the cycle anew. This is literally the story of the OT.

So is it important to understand how truth is arrived at? Because if one does not understand this cycle - which is a long wavelength cycle - then he is doomed to repeat it over and over again.

That's when you questioned my motivation. So I showed you my belief is based upon biblical truths. Then I showed you my motivation. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Are you going to keep arguing?

It's because in my other interactions with you I have come away with the impression that you are a "take it or leave it" Bible believer. In that case, indeed, you are vetoing Truth. Indeed, your journey is, in essence, paramount. So, your words do indeed take precedent over what God has presented as Truth. Yes?

You will undoubtedly call me "self-righteous" for pointing this out, but it is not. If God is who He says He is, He actually has all knowledge. I do not. I can not stand in judgment of HIM. My journey is not paramount to His truth, even if His truth seems confusing to me at the outset.

It seems I am not Christian enough for your tastes. I don't need to beat people up with the Bible. But I can assure you that my understanding of his words are deep.

Everyone's journey is paramount. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me still means I have to do those things. God won't do them for you.

But hey, thanks for accusing me of placing myself above God. Again, that's your pride talking.

You might understand deep things about the Bible but do you accept them as true? I am not in some secret club that I earned because I am better, smarter, wiser or more deserving. BELIEVE me. The truths are there in black and white. I mean you realize you are rather fluffing yourself up for having this deep understanding while accusing me of pride right?

And to a certain extent you are right, God won't "do them for you", but we are also helpless to do them on our own. The natural man does not seek after God. That is why I cannot boast and have no pride in my salvation. All my works are filthy rags. I didn't do it. He did.

 

[SweetSue92]

Confirming One’s Calling and Election
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1

See? What we do matters. God isn't going to do this for us. We have to do it for ourselves. It is literally a progression; a journey.

Okay again--this is sanctification. You are speaking of sanctification. Of course that is a journey.

not truth. Truth is not a journey. It is.