Did Israel Just Lose the Battle for Damascus?

[georgephillip]

et al,

We've jumped the track here.

v/r
R

I sure you're surprised by our jumping the track again, Rocco.

In your opinion, would Russian peacekeepers in the Golan be likely to suppress aggression from Jew and Arab alike in that region, or increase NATO (Turkish) anxiety about oil pipelines running from the Caspian to the Mediterranean?

"Russia proposed to replace Austrian UN peacekeepers who withdrew from the Golan Heights on the Israel-Syria border. However, the mandate of the UN mission does not allow Russia to do so, the organization’s spokesman said.

"Russia was ready to send around 300 peacekeepers to the Golan Heights, said Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin."

Russia ready to join UN peacekeeping mission on Israel-Syria border ? RT News

 

[toastman]

I'm pretty sure Israel declined Russia's request to provide peacekeepers in the Golan

 

[georgephillip]

Israel is losing the Syrian war?

Ahh, did I went to sleep for 2 years and no one told me we are in a war with Syria?

Georgy, are you drinking again?

We are taking no side in this, we were never involved.

So leave us the hell alone.

Were you dozing on September 6, 2007 when

"Operation Orchard[2][3] (Hebrew: מבצע בוסתן*, Mivtza bustan) was an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor[4] in the Deir ez-Zor region[5] of Syria carried out just after midnight (local time) on September 6, 2007.

"The White House and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) later confirmed that American intelligence had also indicated the site was a nuclear facility with a military purpose, though Syria denies this."

 

[toastman]

The war is between the FSA (supported by some Kurdish Rebels) vs. the SAA (back by Iran and Hezbollah)

No matter how much you like to incorporate Israel with every war in the Middle East, they are not one of the belligerents in this war.
Operation Orchard happened before the Syrian uprising, what does it have to do with the current war in Syria ?

 

[georgephillip]

The war is between the FSA (supported by some Kurdish Rebels) vs. the SAA (back by Iran and Hezbollah)

No matter how much you like to incorporate Israel with every war in the Middle East, they are not one of the belligerents in this war.
Operation Orchard happened before the Syrian uprising, what does it have to do with the current war in Syria ?

I'm tempted to say there would be no war in the Middle East today if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, but that is probably an over simplification. Israel, however, has already taken sides in this current conflict, and now they are reaping the blowback, IMHO:

"On May 5, the massive Israeli bombardment of Iranian weapons stored near Damascus for Hizballah, turned out a month later to have done more harm than good. It gave Bashar Assad a boost instead of weakening his resolve.

"2. Israel has laid itself open to unpleasant surprises by its focused watch on military movements in Syria especially around Damascus to ascertain that advanced missiles and chemical weapons don’t reach Hizballah.

"Missed, for instance, was the major movement by Hizballah militia units towards the Syrian-Israeli border. Our military sources report a Hizballah force is currently deployed outside Deraa, capital of the southern Syrian province of Horan.

"Reinforcements are streaming in from Lebanon.

"The Hizballah force and Syrian units are getting ready to move in on the rural Horan and reach the Israeli border nearby through the Syrian Golan."

http://app.debka.com/n/article/23017/Battle-for-Damascus-is-over-Is-Israel-intelligence-slow-on-Syrian-war-

 

[Roudy]

Roudy, et al,

I think most politically astute will agree. Israel doesn't want to get involved or entangled in the Syrian Civil War. It's interest is to minimize the potential for Hezbollah to re-arm anymore then they already have.

Even most Arab countries have turned against Assad now, but no, not you guys, its ALL Israel's fault.

It's interesting to see the level of insanity your hatred has driven you to. Please continue. .

(COMMENT)

As I said in Posting #19, the Israelis only have to sit back and stay out of the way. The law of attrition works in their favor, no matter who wins.

But there is a chance that the Syrian Civil War will erupt into a full-fledged Sunni-Shi'ite conflict. That might turnout to be even better (Post #19).

Sunni-dominated Saudi Arabia's top cleric Abdulaziz al-Shaikh has urged governments to punish the "repulsive sectarian group" while Qatar-based Sunni cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi called on Sunnis to join the rebels.

SOURCE: Yahoo! News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, I agree with you 100%. What's good for Israel is usually what's good for the US and the world.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The war is between the FSA (supported by some Kurdish Rebels) vs. the SAA (back by Iran and Hezbollah)

No matter how much you like to incorporate Israel with every war in the Middle East, they are not one of the belligerents in this war.
Operation Orchard happened before the Syrian uprising, what does it have to do with the current war in Syria ?

I'm tempted to say there would be no war in the Middle East today if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, but that is probably an over simplification. Israel, however, has already taken sides in this current conflict, and now they are reaping the blowback, IMHO:

"On May 5, the massive Israeli bombardment of Iranian weapons stored near Damascus for Hizballah, turned out a month later to have done more harm than good. It gave Bashar Assad a boost instead of weakening his resolve.

"2. Israel has laid itself open to unpleasant surprises by its focused watch on military movements in Syria especially around Damascus to ascertain that advanced missiles and chemical weapons don’t reach Hizballah.

"Missed, for instance, was the major movement by Hizballah militia units towards the Syrian-Israeli border. Our military sources report a Hizballah force is currently deployed outside Deraa, capital of the southern Syrian province of Horan.

"Reinforcements are streaming in from Lebanon.

"The Hizballah force and Syrian units are getting ready to move in on the rural Horan and reach the Israeli border nearby through the Syrian Golan."

http://app.debka.com/n/article/23017/Battle-for-Damascus-is-over-Is-Israel-intelligence-slow-on-Syrian-war-

Israel has taken sides, but the war was raging for 18 months before that.

 

[RoccoR]

ForeverYoung436, georgephillip, toastman, et al,

I think there is a misunderstanding here on the events.

The war is between the FSA (supported by some Kurdish Rebels) vs. the SAA (back by Iran and Hezbollah)

No matter how much you like to incorporate Israel with every war in the Middle East, they are not one of the belligerents in this war.
Operation Orchard happened before the Syrian uprising, what does it have to do with the current war in Syria ?

I'm tempted to say there would be no war in the Middle East today if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, but that is probably an over simplification. Israel, however, has already taken sides in this current conflict, and now they are reaping the blowback, IMHO:

"On May 5, the massive Israeli bombardment of Iranian weapons stored near Damascus for Hizballah, turned out a month later to have done more harm than good. It gave Bashar Assad a boost instead of weakening his resolve.

"2. Israel has laid itself open to unpleasant surprises by its focused watch on military movements in Syria especially around Damascus to ascertain that advanced missiles and chemical weapons don’t reach Hizballah.

"Missed, for instance, was the major movement by Hizballah militia units towards the Syrian-Israeli border. Our military sources report a Hizballah force is currently deployed outside Deraa, capital of the southern Syrian province of Horan.

"Reinforcements are streaming in from Lebanon.

"The Hizballah force and Syrian units are getting ready to move in on the rural Horan and reach the Israeli border nearby through the Syrian Golan."

http://app.debka.com/n/article/23017/Battle-for-Damascus-is-over-Is-Israel-intelligence-slow-on-Syrian-war-

Israel has taken sides, but the war was raging for 18 months before that.

(COMMENT)

Israel has not taken sides. It interdicted an illegal arms transfer from the Iranians (IRCG-QF) to Hezbollah, via the Assad Syrian Government. Israel has no intention of breaking the Armistice.

As far as a threat from Hezbollah in the Golan Heights, it would be a grave tactical error on the part of Hezbollah (and Hezbollah knows it). No one (with any sense) is going to push the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) out of the way. If the UNDOF leaves, and Syria breaks the Armistice --- all the better. Israel will have carte blanche to clean their clock (all the better if it is the Syrian Surrogate, Hezbollah). Don't think for a moment that IDF C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance) has not been rolled out and in play, just waiting for one of the bad guys to make a wrong move. It is almost too good to be true. Usually, the IDF has to chase them down. If the surrogate comes up that hill, it'll be the biggest Turkey Shoot since the Battle of the Philippine Sea (WWII).

Don't worry, Hezbollah knows this. It's too good to be true.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

The war is between the FSA (supported by some Kurdish Rebels) vs. the SAA (back by Iran and Hezbollah)

No matter how much you like to incorporate Israel with every war in the Middle East, they are not one of the belligerents in this war.
Operation Orchard happened before the Syrian uprising, what does it have to do with the current war in Syria ?

I'm tempted to say there would be no war in the Middle East today if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, but that is probably an over simplification. Israel, however, has already taken sides in this current conflict, and now they are reaping the blowback, IMHO:

"On May 5, the massive Israeli bombardment of Iranian weapons stored near Damascus for Hizballah, turned out a month later to have done more harm than good. It gave Bashar Assad a boost instead of weakening his resolve.

"2. Israel has laid itself open to unpleasant surprises by its focused watch on military movements in Syria especially around Damascus to ascertain that advanced missiles and chemical weapons don’t reach Hizballah.

"Missed, for instance, was the major movement by Hizballah militia units towards the Syrian-Israeli border. Our military sources report a Hizballah force is currently deployed outside Deraa, capital of the southern Syrian province of Horan.

"Reinforcements are streaming in from Lebanon.

"The Hizballah force and Syrian units are getting ready to move in on the rural Horan and reach the Israeli border nearby through the Syrian Golan."

http://app.debka.com/n/article/23017/Battle-for-Damascus-is-over-Is-Israel-intelligence-slow-on-Syrian-war-

Are you saying that if Israel didn't exist, then there would be no wars in the ME, or uprising like in Syria, Egypt ??
Think long and hard before you answer this question Georgie Boy

 

[toastman]

Also, can you please discuss the correlation between Israel's bombing of Syria's facility and Hezbollah activity in the Golan. Are you trying to say that had Israel not attacked Syria's facility, that Hezbollah would have not sent troops to Syria ?

 

[georgephillip]

I'm pretty sure Israel declined Russia's request to provide peacekeepers in the Golan

I'm pretty sure the Russians couldn't care less.

 

[georgephillip]

ForeverYoung436, georgephillip, toastman, et al,

I think there is a misunderstanding here on the events.

I'm tempted to say there would be no war in the Middle East today if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, but that is probably an over simplification. Israel, however, has already taken sides in this current conflict, and now they are reaping the blowback, IMHO:

"On May 5, the massive Israeli bombardment of Iranian weapons stored near Damascus for Hizballah, turned out a month later to have done more harm than good. It gave Bashar Assad a boost instead of weakening his resolve.

"2. Israel has laid itself open to unpleasant surprises by its focused watch on military movements in Syria especially around Damascus to ascertain that advanced missiles and chemical weapons don’t reach Hizballah.

"Missed, for instance, was the major movement by Hizballah militia units towards the Syrian-Israeli border. Our military sources report a Hizballah force is currently deployed outside Deraa, capital of the southern Syrian province of Horan.

"Reinforcements are streaming in from Lebanon.

"The Hizballah force and Syrian units are getting ready to move in on the rural Horan and reach the Israeli border nearby through the Syrian Golan."

http://app.debka.com/n/article/23017/Battle-for-Damascus-is-over-Is-Israel-intelligence-slow-on-Syrian-war-

Israel has taken sides, but the war was raging for 18 months before that.

(COMMENT)

Israel has not taken sides. It interdicted an illegal arms transfer from the Iranians (IRCG-QF) to Hezbollah, via the Assad Syrian Government. Israel has no intention of breaking the Armistice.

As far as a threat from Hezbollah in the Golan Heights, it would be a grave tactical error on the part of Hezbollah (and Hezbollah knows it). No one (with any sense) is going to push the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) out of the way. If the UNDOF leaves, and Syria breaks the Armistice --- all the better. Israel will have carte blanche to clean their clock (all the better if it is the Syrian Surrogate, Hezbollah). Don't think for a moment that IDF C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance) has not been rolled out and in play, just waiting for one of the bad guys to make a wrong move. It is almost too good to be true. Usually, the IDF has to chase them down. If the surrogate comes up that hill, it'll be the biggest Turkey Shoot since the Battle of the Philippine Sea (WWII).

Don't worry, Hezbollah knows this. It's too good to be true.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...from whence came Israel's authorization to interdict an illegal arms transfer outside its "borders?" Operation Orchard would seem to be a fairly recent example of the Jewish state's willingness to break the armistice whenever an opportunity presents itself.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

ForeverYoung436, georgephillip, toastman, et al,

I think there is a misunderstanding here on the events.

Israel has taken sides, but the war was raging for 18 months before that.

(COMMENT)

Israel has not taken sides. It interdicted an illegal arms transfer from the Iranians (IRCG-QF) to Hezbollah, via the Assad Syrian Government. Israel has no intention of breaking the Armistice.

As far as a threat from Hezbollah in the Golan Heights, it would be a grave tactical error on the part of Hezbollah (and Hezbollah knows it). No one (with any sense) is going to push the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) out of the way. If the UNDOF leaves, and Syria breaks the Armistice --- all the better. Israel will have carte blanche to clean their clock (all the better if it is the Syrian Surrogate, Hezbollah). Don't think for a moment that IDF C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance) has not been rolled out and in play, just waiting for one of the bad guys to make a wrong move. It is almost too good to be true. Usually, the IDF has to chase them down. If the surrogate comes up that hill, it'll be the biggest Turkey Shoot since the Battle of the Philippine Sea (WWII).

Don't worry, Hezbollah knows this. It's too good to be true.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...from whence came Israel's authorization to interdict an illegal arms transfer outside its "borders?" Operation Orchard would seem to be a fairly recent example of the Jewish state's willingness to break the armistice whenever an opportunity presents itself.

Israel signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, but not with Syria. They are officially still in a state of war.

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

Usually, the victim of a crime (presumably Syria, Iran or Hezbollah) is the one that pursues the complaint. Oddly enough, all the potential victims would have to admit to a crime to pursue the complaint.

Rocco...from whence came Israel's authorization to interdict an illegal arms transfer outside its "borders?" Operation Orchard would seem to be a fairly recent example of the Jewish state's willingness to break the armistice whenever an opportunity presents itself.

(COMMENT)

Oh, I don't think the UN is going to be so upset with an interdiction.

We resolve to undertake the following measures to prevent and combat terrorism, in particular by denying terrorists access to the means to carry out their attacks, to their targets and to the desired impact of their attacks:

To strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials.​

SOURCE: Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy - UN Action to Counter Terrorism

Yeah, there was a border crossing. Let's see who makes the complaint first.

From an international standpoint, this is a minor offense (slap on the hand - maybe not even that).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

It won't be the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet.

"The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern both Israel and Palestine and bordering states such as Lebanon. The Human Rights Council has adopted more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined.[1]"

Must be nice sheltering under a star-spangled dragon's wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

 

[HistoryBefore67]

There's a scene in Jurassic Park III in which a T-Rex battles a Spinosaurus while the humans escape from both.

I'd say that Israel's view of the Syrian conflict is similar to that of the human characters in that scene.

 

[sealadaigh]

There's a scene in Jurassic Park III in which a T-Rex battles a Spinosaurus while the humans escape from both.

I'd say that Israel's view of the Syrian conflict is similar to that of the human characters in that scene.

isn't evolution wonderful.

 

[georgephillip]

The war is between the FSA (supported by some Kurdish Rebels) vs. the SAA (back by Iran and Hezbollah)

No matter how much you like to incorporate Israel with every war in the Middle East, they are not one of the belligerents in this war.
Operation Orchard happened before the Syrian uprising, what does it have to do with the current war in Syria ?

I'm tempted to say there would be no war in the Middle East today if 650,000 Jews hadn't inflicted their nation state on 1.2 million Arabs in 1948, but that is probably an over simplification. Israel, however, has already taken sides in this current conflict, and now they are reaping the blowback, IMHO:

"On May 5, the massive Israeli bombardment of Iranian weapons stored near Damascus for Hizballah, turned out a month later to have done more harm than good. It gave Bashar Assad a boost instead of weakening his resolve.

"2. Israel has laid itself open to unpleasant surprises by its focused watch on military movements in Syria especially around Damascus to ascertain that advanced missiles and chemical weapons don’t reach Hizballah.

"Missed, for instance, was the major movement by Hizballah militia units towards the Syrian-Israeli border. Our military sources report a Hizballah force is currently deployed outside Deraa, capital of the southern Syrian province of Horan.

"Reinforcements are streaming in from Lebanon.

"The Hizballah force and Syrian units are getting ready to move in on the rural Horan and reach the Israeli border nearby through the Syrian Golan."

http://app.debka.com/n/article/23017/Battle-for-Damascus-is-over-Is-Israel-intelligence-slow-on-Syrian-war-

Are you saying that if Israel didn't exist, then there would be no wars in the ME, or uprising like in Syria, Egypt ??
Think long and hard before you answer this question Georgie Boy

It takes little thought to point out how the borders of Syria, Israel, and Lebanon came into existence. That occurred at the conclusion of the War to End All Wars (and I think investment bankers with names like Rockefeller, Rothschild, and Morgan are still laughing at that one).

"Britain was allocated control of areas roughly comprising the coastal strip between the sea and River Jordan, Jordan, southern Iraq, and a small area including the ports of Haifa and Acre, to allow access to the Mediterranean.[6]

"France was allocated control of south-eastern Turkey, northern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.[citation needed] Russia was to get Istanbul, the Turkish Straits and the Ottoman Armenian vilayets.[6]

"The controlling powers were left free to decide on state boundaries within these areas.[6] Further negotiation was expected to determine international administration pending consultations with Russia and other powers, including the Sharif of Mecca."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement#Territorial_allocations

The racist arrogance of Zionism was part of the colonialist mentality that inflicted those boundaries upon millions of Arabs, and it depended on the creation of a Jewish state in the heart of Arab oil, "a little, loyal Jewish Ulster" in the words of one British elite of the time.

"Following the outbreak of World War I, Zionism was first discussed at a British Cabinet level on 9 November 1914, four days after Britain's declaration of war on the Ottoman Empire..."

Israel was created to ensure conflicts like the one we are currently watching in Syria take place regularly enough in the Middle East to generate massive profits to investment bankers from the sales of arms, oil, and illegal drugs (Afghanistan).

As far as your question about the correlation between Israel's Operation Orchard, Syria, and Hezbollah, you might want to give a little thought to the North Korean connection, Toastie:

"In 2001, the Mossad, Israel's external intelligence service, was profiling newly-inducted Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

"Visits by North Korean dignitaries, which focused on advanced arms deliveries, were noticed. Aman, Israel's military intelligence department, suggested nuclear arms were being discussed, but the Mossad dismissed this theory.

"In spring 2004, U.S. intelligence reported multiple communications between Syria and North Korea, and traced the calls to a desert location called al-Kibar. Unit 8200, Israel's signals intelligence and codebreaking unit, added the location to its watch list.[15]

"On April 22, 2004, a massive explosion occurred on a North Korean freight train heading for the port of Namp'o. According to British intelligence writer Gordon Thomas, the Mossad had learned that dozens of Syrian nuclear technicians were in a compartment adjoining a sealed wagon.

"According to Thomas, the Syrians had arrived in North Korea to collect the fissionable material stored in the wagon. All of the technicians were killed in the train explosion.

"Their bodies were flown to Syria in lead-encased coffins aboard a Syrian military plane.

"A wide area around the explosion site was cordoned off for days as North Korean soldiers in anti-contamination suits collected wreckage and sprayed the area. Mossad analysts suspected they were trying to recover weapons-grade plutonium.

"Since the explosion, the Mossad tracked about a dozen trips by Syrian military officers and scientists to Pyongyang, where they met with high-ranking North Korean officials."

 

[georgephillip]

There's a scene in Jurassic Park III in which a T-Rex battles a Spinosaurus while the humans escape from both.

I'd say that Israel's view of the Syrian conflict is similar to that of the human characters in that scene.

Welcome to the asylum, HB1967!

With all due respect, I suggest Israel scales in closer to Godzilla in the scenario you describe.
Maybe the humans are the innocent Syrians running for their lives?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

Ah, yes, the US is more of a criminal than the Terrorist. That is usual. We certainly would NOT want to besmirch the character of an organization with such a distinguished history that includes:

• The 1992 Israeli Embassy attack in Buenos Aires, killing 29, in Argentina.
• The 1994 AMIA bombing of a Jewish cultural centre, killing 85, in Argentina.
• The 1994 AC Flight 901 attack, killing 21, in Panama.
• The 1994 London Israeli Embassy attack, injuring 29, in the United Kingdom.
• In 2002, accused of recruiting Singaporeans in a failed 1990s plot to attack U.S. and Israeli ships in the Singapore Straits.
• The January 15, 2008, bombing of a U.S. Embassy vehicle in Beirut.
• In 2009, accused in a plot in Egypt, where Egyptian authorities arrested 49 men for planning attacks against Israeli and Egyptian targets in the Sinai Peninsula.
• The 2012 Burgas bus bombing, killing 6, in Bulgaria.

It won't be the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet.

"The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern both Israel and Palestine and bordering states such as Lebanon. The Human Rights Council has adopted more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined."

Must be nice sheltering under a star-spangled dragon's wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

(COMMENT)

Yes the "greatest purveyor of violence" meets the organization responsible for the Tyre headquarters bombings; the April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing; the 1983 Beirut Barracks bombing - that killed 241 US Marines; and the Hijacking of TWA Flight 847 in 1985 (and killed US Navy Diver Robert Stethem and throwing his body on the tarmac for media impact).

Yes, I entirely understand your sympathy for this righteous and upstanding organization. We want to make sure that they get all the gun, ammunitions, and crew-served weapons they need to pursue their public service missions; to support the dictatorial regime in Syria, and continue the use of force against the territorial integrity and political independence of member state of the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R