Did Millennials Not Learn About Socialism?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Did Millennials Not Learn About Socialism?"

Along with most conservatives.

 

[hazlnut]

A recent Pugh Research survey showed that 47% of Millennials had positive views on Socialism. It made me wonder, when did we stop teaching World History and specifically, about the horrors of Socialism in school? Must have been since I graduated in the late 70s, because when I went to school, we devoted a great deal of time in studying and being tested rigorously on Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others. The People's Revolution... The Bolsheviks... The Killing Fields... Any of that ringing any bells to Millennials? As it stands, the Death Toll for Socialism worldwide stands at around 150 million, conservatively speaking. And that's for deaths that we know about... there are probably that many more that we will never know about. It is a dangerous and devastating political ideology that you need to be aware of and pay attention to what happens, how it works, what the inhuman and horrific results have been.

Oh, I know... YOU favor a different KIND of Socialism! It's not your Grandaddy's Socialism! But guess what? It's ALWAYS a different kind! Every incarnation of Socialism comes repackaged in a "new and improved" version that will certainly work THIS time! Mao recreated Stalinist Socialism, Pol Pot recreated Maoism. There is always a "better" version of Socialism... that's because there has to be... it keeps failing.

You see, the thing is... I don't really think Millennials have thought this through. The things that you hold near and dear... the grande mocha frappuccino at Starbucks... the latest version of the iPhone or music device... all those things go bye-bye in a Socialist system, you don't have time for that anyway, you have to remain productive. Things like going to the movies or concerts... that becomes a once a year kinda thing, maybe... if you work really hard and save for it. In fact, the coming and going pretty much has to stop altogether because you can't afford it anymore.

Art, music, movies... all things creative that you have known and loved... all goes away because there is no room for creativity and thinking anymore, you must remain committed to becoming a more productive worker. You don't believe me? Well, in Russia, if you look at the art and buildings from their Imperial era, (pre-socialist)... they were colorful and very artistically creative... look at art and buildings following the revolution which brought Socialism and it turns to brown dull colors, uninspired architecture. Creativity is killed for the Greater Good, you see? You'll have the same modest little shoe box home like everyone else and you can't really "own" property anymore... you can't afford to buy it. However, it will always seem as though the Socialist ruling class is able to afford these things, but they are making all this wonderful Socialist Utopia possible, so it's to be expected, right?

The really bad thing is whenever you discover this Socialism isn't really all that it's cracked up to be.... think of Windows Vista... The thing is, you can't revert to previous version... there is nothing there anymore. You have to destroy the free market capitalist system in order to actually implement this wonderful new version of socialism... so there's that. You're just stuck with it until enough people are willing to shed blood and start a revolution. That probably isn't going to be the Millennial generation but I assume at least a few of you will have children and presumably they'll produce grandchildren. At some point, that will be the only way to get back to what we once had... a vibrant free market, free enterprise, capitalist system.

A system, incidentally, which has proven successful everywhere it has been tried. It has produced more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. We've been around 247 years, give or take... China has us beat by a few thousand years. We're relative babies in terms of nations.... yet we're the #1 World Superpower. That is the result of our system which is precious and unique... and most importantly, IS NOT SOCIALISM!

Okay, to the Granola Liberals.... You know how you've been instructed to argue that if you carry a Social Security card you're literally a "card-carrying socialist!"? You're being intentionally misled... and again, I have to wonder when we stopped teaching American History.... Constitutionally-enumerated powers of Congress? Promote the General Welfare? Any of that ringing any bells, Millennials? These things like Social Security and Roads/Bridges, etc... they all fall under Constitutionally-enumerated powers of the government that are built into our NON-Socialist system. They are NOT Socialism. There might be some similarities as they are often done as a "collective" and it seems this lines up with Socialism but it's not Socialism at all. There are a set of things you can find in Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution which grant government the powers to handle certain aspects of government on behalf of everyone. It's not because government can do it more efficiently or even "better" in all cases, but the framers realized there were certain things the free market capitalist system couldn't do effectively because the incentives were all wrong. A free market capitalist military? What, we're gonna hire mercenaries? So there are these certain set of things the framers realized the government needed the power to handle and those are the Enumerated Powers. It's NOT Socialism.

Our founding fathers actually have the first opportunity of any newly-founded governing body to consider Socialism as the general ideas were already being talked about across the pond. But these people, as you recall, were radicals of their time... they didn't want anything like Socialism, it was moving in the opposite direction and away from what they wanted to do here. They didn't want large centralized Federal power lording over the people. They wanted a society that ensured personal liberty above all else and enabled individuals the freedom to pursue their ambitions and desires through free enterprise, free market economy. They WANTED people to aspire to be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams and buy expensive homes. They WANTED businesses to thrive and prosper. And guess what? It worked out brilliantly... we became the undisputed World Leaders... in pretty much everything.

As we've watched in horror as one incarnation of Socialism after another has failed in shocking fashion. Genocide. War. Starvation. Complete collapse of civilization and death. As the policies fail the ruling class attempts to hold on to their power and that's when things really start becoming very ugly. Corruption is widespread and rampant, totalitarian tyranny is inevitable. It's all documented in the history books that we're apparently not using anymore in schools.

And hey, maybe it's not all the Millennial's fault... maybe it's the parents as well... The other day, a friend of mine who has a son that is a Millennial, was reviewing his options for after high school... His parent was steering him toward going to technical school instead of pursuing an academic degree. Buckle down, learn a good trade and be a good little Socialist worker. Don't dream big... don't worry your little head about being wealthy or successful... we know you're not that smart... besides, you're wanting to do that "music career" thing and live in a tiny house, right?

It would seem that it's you who never learned about socialism.

You give examples of communism and other totalitarian variations -- as if they are all interchangeable with say modern Canada or Sweden.

It is this type of ignorance and idiocy that is killing our country.

Words having meanings.

If you don't know the meanings, really understand the words, THEN DON'T USE THEM.

Most emergency services in the U.S. and education (through 12th grade) are all socialized.

Libraries. Public parks, concerts, safety, and yes HEALTH CARE for poor and veterans are SOCIALIZED.

Get informed.

 

[Iceweasel]

It would seem that it's you who never learned about socialism.

You give examples of communism and other totalitarian variations -- as if they are all interchangeable with say modern Canada or Sweden.

It is this type of ignorance and idiocy that is killing our country.

Words having meanings.

If you don't know the meanings, really understand the words, THEN DON'T USE THEM.

Most emergency services in the U.S. and education (through 12th grade) are all socialized.

Libraries. Public parks, concerts, safety, and yes HEALTH CARE for poor and veterans are SOCIALIZED.

Get informed.

What an idiot. You ignored everything you don't believe and just chant the same old bullshit. YOU learn what words mean. Social programs funded by the private sector isn't socialism. Emergency services, schools, military, police, laws, etc. are all part of what a nation needs to function. Using your brain dead definition we were founded as a socialist nation. Which founder would agree?

 

[Never3ndr]

I would just stop arguing with Iceweasel the guy literally thinks that in order to be socialist you are required to have a dictator. You just can't argue the stupid out of some people.

 

[Iceweasel]

I would just stop arguing with Iceweasel the guy literally thinks that in order to be socialist you are required to have a dictator. You just can't argue the stupid out of some people.

I didn't say that, but I did point out what a dumb fuck you are. That's usually what happens though, you were saying the founders couldn't have formed a socialist nation since it hadn't been invented and I pointed out that it basically replaces kingdoms with dictatorships. You're the one that thinks roads mean socialism. Therefore every country on Earth is socialist. Like I said, you need to sue your school district, they fucked you.

 

[Never3ndr]

The concept of a few controlling all trade has been around for a very long time. Socialism simply replaces a king with dictator.

Post #73 in this thread.

You said it, not me.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Idiot,

Did you not learn about social democracy and the reality that the US has had public schools for the past 100 years, funded science institutions since the founding(naval research lab) and have had a central bank very early in our history. Now go to somalia and be a savage!

Every civilized nation on earth has a public sector.

 

[Iceweasel]

The concept of a few controlling all trade has been around for a very long time. Socialism simply replaces a king with dictator.

Post #73 in this thread.

You said it, not me.

And that's what happens. I did not say it wasn't possible, I just haven't seen it.

 

[Boss]

I don't know if C_Clayton_Jones, hazlnut and Never3ndr are Millennials or just typical brainwashed Socialists. But their rebuttals are all addressed in the OP which they obviously didn't bother to read any more than they bothered to study history.

Indeed, words DO have meanings, hazlnut... you don't get to redefine Socialism to encompass everything that any nation does for the collective. If that's the criteria, then even the concept of having a formal nation is Socialist. Having a Constitution is Socialist. Seating a Supreme Court, electing a Congress or President... all Socialist, under your broad definition.

And Never3ndr... Communism is not Socialism but it always follows Socialism. It's a two-step process, you have to first become Socialist in order to become Communist. They learned this when Chairman Mao tried to skip the step of becoming Socialist and convert China directly to Communism. You have to execute too many people and there is a problem with world perception of that along with what to do with the rotting corpses.

But each incarnation of Socialism is wrought with these kind of unforeseen problems. That's the reason it continues to have to be re-invented in a newer and better form. You have to smear some lipstick on the pig... attach a new word like "democracy" and pretend the new version somehow resolves all the negative pitfalls found in Socialism through history.

I have taken time in this thread to explain why Socialist systems fail and also, to what extent some Socialist systems have worked. Of course, all of that is ignored by those who have drank the kool-aid and simply attack all who reject their new improved version of Socialist Utopia. It's really sad to me because history teaches us what comes next. You must, at some point, silence your critics. Socialist systems cannot take hold and work as intended with half the people not on board. This is precisely what is behind the push to disarm America.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Their whole existence has been punctuated by the phrase"do it for the children" how much spending has been justified that way....... guess what they arent children anymore and the bill is coming due......

 

[KGB]

A recent Pugh Research survey showed that 47% of Millennials had positive views on Socialism. It made me wonder, when did we stop teaching World History and specifically, about the horrors of Socialism in school? Must have been since I graduated in the late 70s, because when I went to school, we devoted a great deal of time in studying and being tested rigorously on Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others. The People's Revolution... The Bolsheviks... The Killing Fields... Any of that ringing any bells to Millennials? As it stands, the Death Toll for Socialism worldwide stands at around 150 million, conservatively speaking. And that's for deaths that we know about... there are probably that many more that we will never know about. It is a dangerous and devastating political ideology that you need to be aware of and pay attention to what happens, how it works, what the inhuman and horrific results have been.

Oh, I know... YOU favor a different KIND of Socialism! It's not your Grandaddy's Socialism! But guess what? It's ALWAYS a different kind! Every incarnation of Socialism comes repackaged in a "new and improved" version that will certainly work THIS time! Mao recreated Stalinist Socialism, Pol Pot recreated Maoism. There is always a "better" version of Socialism... that's because there has to be... it keeps failing.

You see, the thing is... I don't really think Millennials have thought this through. The things that you hold near and dear... the grande mocha frappuccino at Starbucks... the latest version of the iPhone or music device... all those things go bye-bye in a Socialist system, you don't have time for that anyway, you have to remain productive. Things like going to the movies or concerts... that becomes a once a year kinda thing, maybe... if you work really hard and save for it. In fact, the coming and going pretty much has to stop altogether because you can't afford it anymore.

Art, music, movies... all things creative that you have known and loved... all goes away because there is no room for creativity and thinking anymore, you must remain committed to becoming a more productive worker. You don't believe me? Well, in Russia, if you look at the art and buildings from their Imperial era, (pre-socialist)... they were colorful and very artistically creative... look at art and buildings following the revolution which brought Socialism and it turns to brown dull colors, uninspired architecture. Creativity is killed for the Greater Good, you see? You'll have the same modest little shoe box home like everyone else and you can't really "own" property anymore... you can't afford to buy it. However, it will always seem as though the Socialist ruling class is able to afford these things, but they are making all this wonderful Socialist Utopia possible, so it's to be expected, right?

The really bad thing is whenever you discover this Socialism isn't really all that it's cracked up to be.... think of Windows Vista... The thing is, you can't revert to previous version... there is nothing there anymore. You have to destroy the free market capitalist system in order to actually implement this wonderful new version of socialism... so there's that. You're just stuck with it until enough people are willing to shed blood and start a revolution. That probably isn't going to be the Millennial generation but I assume at least a few of you will have children and presumably they'll produce grandchildren. At some point, that will be the only way to get back to what we once had... a vibrant free market, free enterprise, capitalist system.

A system, incidentally, which has proven successful everywhere it has been tried. It has produced more millionaires and billionaires than any system ever devised by man. We've been around 247 years, give or take... China has us beat by a few thousand years. We're relative babies in terms of nations.... yet we're the #1 World Superpower. That is the result of our system which is precious and unique... and most importantly, IS NOT SOCIALISM!

Okay, to the Granola Liberals.... You know how you've been instructed to argue that if you carry a Social Security card you're literally a "card-carrying socialist!"? You're being intentionally misled... and again, I have to wonder when we stopped teaching American History.... Constitutionally-enumerated powers of Congress? Promote the General Welfare? Any of that ringing any bells, Millennials? These things like Social Security and Roads/Bridges, etc... they all fall under Constitutionally-enumerated powers of the government that are built into our NON-Socialist system. They are NOT Socialism. There might be some similarities as they are often done as a "collective" and it seems this lines up with Socialism but it's not Socialism at all. There are a set of things you can find in Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution which grant government the powers to handle certain aspects of government on behalf of everyone. It's not because government can do it more efficiently or even "better" in all cases, but the framers realized there were certain things the free market capitalist system couldn't do effectively because the incentives were all wrong. A free market capitalist military? What, we're gonna hire mercenaries? So there are these certain set of things the framers realized the government needed the power to handle and those are the Enumerated Powers. It's NOT Socialism.

Our founding fathers actually have the first opportunity of any newly-founded governing body to consider Socialism as the general ideas were already being talked about across the pond. But these people, as you recall, were radicals of their time... they didn't want anything like Socialism, it was moving in the opposite direction and away from what they wanted to do here. They didn't want large centralized Federal power lording over the people. They wanted a society that ensured personal liberty above all else and enabled individuals the freedom to pursue their ambitions and desires through free enterprise, free market economy. They WANTED people to aspire to be wealthy beyond their wildest dreams and buy expensive homes. They WANTED businesses to thrive and prosper. And guess what? It worked out brilliantly... we became the undisputed World Leaders... in pretty much everything.

As we've watched in horror as one incarnation of Socialism after another has failed in shocking fashion. Genocide. War. Starvation. Complete collapse of civilization and death. As the policies fail the ruling class attempts to hold on to their power and that's when things really start becoming very ugly. Corruption is widespread and rampant, totalitarian tyranny is inevitable. It's all documented in the history books that we're apparently not using anymore in schools.

And hey, maybe it's not all the Millennial's fault... maybe it's the parents as well... The other day, a friend of mine who has a son that is a Millennial, was reviewing his options for after high school... His parent was steering him toward going to technical school instead of pursuing an academic degree. Buckle down, learn a good trade and be a good little Socialist worker. Don't dream big... don't worry your little head about being wealthy or successful... we know you're not that smart... besides, you're wanting to do that "music career" thing and live in a tiny house, right?

Studying history & experiencing it are two different things. I grew up in the Cold War era & remember the fear of nuclear annihilation by the Soviet Union all too well. Today's Millenials have no concept of it so for them, the Red Menace has no meaning.

 

[regent]

Has anyone defined socialism as yet? Has anyone given an approximate number of types of socialism used in the world today? Has Marx's "Scientific Socialism" ever worked in any nation? Is it safe to say America, as many nations, has an economic mixture of socialism and capitalism?

 

[Tresha91203]

Well you are more than welcome to go look it up... They call themselves a "Democratic Republic" and proudly speak of their "democratic socialism."

Words have meanings. Just saying it doesn't make it true or accurate.

You're absolutely right... attaching "democratic" in front of "socialism" doesn't change what it is. Might make you feel better about it... doesn't change it.

"Democratic Socialism" or "Social Democracy" are an oxymoron. You can't turn over freedom and powers to government and still have freedom. Your choice is no longer your choice, that belongs to your government... or the ruling class. That is why I said, I don't think Millennials have thought this through... you don't run out and get the latest iPhone anymore... you take what your Socialist ruling authority says you can have and you're grateful for it... IF you get it at all.

Things like funding for the arts goes away because it doesn't promote production.... it's all about productivity in a Socialist system, that's the only way it can function. Dreaming and imagining is put on the back burner because again, you have to remain focused on productivity now.

Liberals want a society similar to the Scandinavian countries. Call that whatever you want, but that's the goal.

White and Christian? I think they are doing it wrong, then.

 

[Boss]

Has anyone defined socialism as yet? Has anyone given an approximate number of types of socialism used in the world today? Has Marx's "Scientific Socialism" ever worked in any nation? Is it safe to say America, as many nations, has an economic mixture of socialism and capitalism?

Definitions of Socialism are hard to pin down because Socialism is constantly having to "evolve" into a form that isn't as devastating as the last form. But the basic premise is the total governmental control over social and economic aspects of society for the greater good of society.

It is a dangerous thing to intellectualize the concept of "mixed systems" because you can never have a true mixture of Socialism and Free Market Capitalism. It's like stabbing yourself in the gut with multiple knives and claiming you are both dead and alive at the same time. You can certainly think such a thing for a while but it's not real healthy.

 

[Iceweasel]

Has anyone defined socialism as yet? Has anyone given an approximate number of types of socialism used in the world today? Has Marx's "Scientific Socialism" ever worked in any nation? Is it safe to say America, as many nations, has an economic mixture of socialism and capitalism?

Socialism has been defined numerous times in this thread and thousands in others. But I'll provide it since searching on the internet takes away too much time from other activities.


Definition of SOCIALISM
Simple Definition of socialism

• : a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies
  

Full Definition of socialism

1. 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
   
   
2. 2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
   
   
3. 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

There you go! Feel free to copy and paste it into a text editor in case you forget. So the next task will be explaining how democracy is compatible with socialism, because that, I haven't seen yet. Roads aren't socialism. The mere existence of government and public services isn't socialism. In a republic we own government and can change course overnight at the voting booth. How would that be possible if the state owned production?

Do they even teach the Constitution anymore?

(Preamble)
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Securing the blessings of liberty is about as un-socialist as you can get. We have far too many social programs and they steadily chip away at our freedoms and autonomy. A little at a time until it's too late.

 

[Boss]

They know what the definition of Socialism is... that's not the problem here. That's just the way they have of trying to be smug and intellectual. They want you to post the generic definition so they can juxtapose this "new and improved" version of socialism to show how you're completely wrong. You see, it's OKAY to be a Socialist NOW... because they've FIXED the bad stuff! Now, it's all going to work and bring forth Utopia! We just need to believe in the fairy tale.

How else do you think they can shrug off 150 years of history and failure like it's nothing? I started this thread because I wondered if Millennials had learned about Socialism in school... turns out, they did... BUT... Socialism today is not the same thing... or so they claim. Really, what it means today is to just be sociable. Do everything for everybody, make everyone happy with everything... be sociable. Don't be greedy or selfish... spread the wealth... be sociable!

 

[Iceweasel]

Well, along with the white washing of socialism capitalism is demonized to the point that profits are greedy and evil. Not realizing that's where the jobs and wealth are created.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Is it safe to say America, as many nations, has an economic mixture of socialism and capitalism?

Don't know if it is "safe to say" but it is the truth. Many successful countries have a blend of both. And it works well. Including for us.

 

[Contumacious]

Is it safe to say America, as many nations, has an economic mixture of socialism and capitalism?

Don't know if it is "safe to say" but it is the truth. Many successful countries have a blend of both. And it works well. Including for us.

An economic mixture of socialism and Capitalism is called fascism, read the Communist Manifesto again.

We have had fascism since 1913 - now the stupid fucks want to graduate to socialism.

Fascism and Socialism "work" only if you are a parasite - if you believe that there is such a thing as a free lunch.

.

 

[Boss]

Well, along with the white washing of socialism capitalism is demonized to the point that profits are greedy and evil. Not realizing that's where the jobs and wealth are created.

Private sector, free market capitalism has to be destroyed for Socialism to prevail. What they try to do is tie crony corporatism to free market capitalism and create the narrative that profits are greedy. What they fail to comprehend is, even in a Socialist system, there are still profits. They are just realized by the ruling class elite and there is no market forces of supply and demand anymore to control the greed of the profiteer.

It is never going to be the Utopian dream they've been sold and when they finally realize that, it will be far too late to turn back. Once you've destroyed the foundations of private free market and enterprise, there is nothing to return to anymore... you're stuck with Socialism until people are willing to die in revolution.