Did the Jews miss thier Messiah?

[UllysesS.Archer]

Hear, hear, according to Ulysses, Romans had the right to mistranslate the Word of God.
How intellectually dishonest of you, Mr. Archer.

Again, quote something in English that proves you are right, or just admit, you have no idea what's really going on, you just want everyone to take your word for it, because it is your word after all.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

This thread shows the contempt and hatred some Christians really have for Jews well.

I don't hate the Jews, I know them to be God's chosen people. I also know they rejected God the Son, and boy did that embarrass the leaders of the Jews, so much that they have been lying to other Jews for 2000 years. Sorry you missed your Messiah, Delta. You will see Him soon, as we all will.

 

[Indeependent]

This thread shows the contempt and hatred some Christians really have for Jews well.

It really shows how their "educational" system has scared the shit out of them.
Then again, I don't know how I would feel deep inside if I was indoctrinated with a loving "Lord" sending most people to an Eternal Lake of Fire.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

This thread shows the contempt and hatred some Christians really have for Jews well.

On a side note, I do have some contempt for you Delta, you want to be a Jew when it suits your needs, yet when it doesn't you want to claim not to be religious at all, make up your mind, you are so lukewarm.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I don't hate the Jews, I know them to be God's chosen people. I also know they rejected God the Son, and boy did that embarrass the leaders of the Jews, so much that they have been lying to other Jews for 2000 years. Sorry you missed your Messiah, Delta. You will see Him soon, as we all will.

Saw him already. Nailed his boney ass to a hunk of splintery wood and laughed when he wet himself.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

This thread shows the contempt and hatred some Christians really have for Jews well.

It really shows how their "educational" system has scared the shit out of them.
Then again, I don't know how I would feel deep inside if I was indoctrinated with a loving "Lord" sending most people to an Eternal Lake of Fire.

Again, quote something in English that proves you are right, or just admit, you have no idea what's really going on, you just want everyone to take your word for it, because it is your word after all.

Just admit it, you have nothing but insults, and you are embarrassed to actually have nothing.

 

[Indeependent]

Hear, hear, according to Ulysses, Romans had the right to mistranslate the Word of God.
How intellectually dishonest of you, Mr. Archer.

Again, quote something in English that proves you are right, or just admit, you have no idea what's really going on, you just want everyone to take your word for it, because it is your word after all.

I did and you ignored it.
You would rather live your life in ignorance than research the mangling of God's word.
The difference, however, is that TJS doesn't send people nilly willy to Hell.
The Romans had to control their people to collect all the gold and taxes.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I don't hate the Jews, I know them to be God's chosen people. I also know they rejected God the Son, and boy did that embarrass the leaders of the Jews, so much that they have been lying to other Jews for 2000 years. Sorry you missed your Messiah, Delta. You will see Him soon, as we all will.

Saw him already. Nailed his boney ass to a hunk of splintery wood and laughed when he wet himself.

See there, I knew I could get you to admit, that your people killed their own God. Glad you saw the light

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Hear, hear, according to Ulysses, Romans had the right to mistranslate the Word of God.
How intellectually dishonest of you, Mr. Archer.

Again, quote something in English that proves you are right, or just admit, you have no idea what's really going on, you just want everyone to take your word for it, because it is your word after all.

I did and you ignored it.
You would rather live your life in ignorance than research the mangling of God's word.
The difference, however, is that TJS doesn't send people nilly willy to Hell.
The Romans had to control their people to collect all the gold and taxes.

Again, quote something in English that proves you are right, or just admit, you have no idea what's really going on, you just want everyone to take your word for it, because it is your word after all.

You have shown nothing, even in this post above you still have nothing.

 

[Indeependent]

Off to work.
You think it wouldn't be so tough to take 3 months to learn Hebrew and learn the truth.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

See there, I knew I could get you to admit, that your people killed their own God. Glad you saw the light

Can't kill a god, sorta antithetical to what gods are. Can kill men though. A man was killed, not a god.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Off to work.
You think it wouldn't be so tough to take 3 months to learn Hebrew and learn the truth.

Learn that the Jewish leaders have hidden the truth from other Jews for 2000 years, if Jews discovered the truth, then Israel as a nation, would be doomed, and the Jewish leaders would never allow that.

Better to sacrifice God, than forego all those donations.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Simple and elegant proof (in English) Jesus wasn't the Messiah or any sort of divinity:

Israel has never been defeated in a war.

Think if we killed the Messiah or some relative of God that'd be true?


13 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
- Deuteronomy 13

Trying to assume worship to himself is why we killed Yeshua. We worship God, not Man.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

See there, I knew I could get you to admit, that your people killed their own God. Glad you saw the light

Can't kill a god, sorta antithetical to what gods are. Can kill men though. A man was killed, not a god.

Delta, you refuse to even follow your own Torah, you wish to ignore certain verses, so that you can enjoy the world, and commit abominations against God.

Leviticus 20:13
New International Version
"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
New Living Translation
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
English Standard Version
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
New American Standard Bible
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
King James Bible
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands.
International Standard Version
"If a man has sexual relations with another male as he would with a woman, both have committed a repulsive act. They are certainly to be put to death
.NET Bible
If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
When a man has sexual intercourse with another man as with a woman, both men are doing something disgusting and must be put to death. They deserve to die.
Jubilee Bible 2000
If a man shall join himself with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
King James 2000 Bible
If a man also lies with a man, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
American King James Version
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.
American Standard Version
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Douay-Rheims Bible
If any one lie with a man se with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.
Darby Bible Translation
And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall certainly be put to death; their blood is upon them.
English Revised Version
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Webster's Bible Translation
If a man also shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
World English Bible
"'If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Young's Literal Translation
And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood is on them.

No matter how you read it, it says the same thing. You should be thankful for Jesus, for without Him, we could all be following the Torah only, and homosexuals might not be living today. Your Torah says they should all be put to death.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Simple and elegant proof (in English) Jesus wasn't the Messiah or any sort of divinity:

Israel has never been defeated in a war.

Think if we killed the Messiah or some relative of God that'd be true?


13 [a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
- Deuteronomy 13

Trying to assume worship to himself is why we killed Yeshua. We worship God, not Man.

So, by using your own logic, since you are a homosexual, should you not kill yourself, since you worship God, not man. Or should the Jews as a people just kill all homosexuals, since they worship God, not man.

Since they do not, aren't they disobeying God by not killing all homosexuals?

 

[alang1216]

Daniel is told that to bring an end to sin and transgression, all these prophecies would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. The second verse goes on to tell us that from the decree to rebuild the temple until Messiah comes is 69 weeks. But what were these weeks. An in depth reading finds that these were weeks of years,

Can you provide any references or information on this in depth reading? Never heard of this before.

I first learned of this many years ago. There was a man who did a series I just happened to catch that first exposed me to the idea. I will have to do some digging and come up with that.

I'm sincerely interested in the results and look forward to your response. Thanks.

Here is some of it, though, I will have to drive to Greeneville to get the name of the teacher who I first saw on video back in the mid 90's. It was my first exposure to the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

A day equals a year in the bible

This explains how many get that 1 day equals 1 year, due to Scripture. Hope it helps, and i'll get back to you with that name.

First, thanks for finding the info, very interesting, but ultimately unconvincing. It is obvious to me that the OT is being twisted to provide the answer required, that these numbers point to Jesus.

The first example cited by your link, Numbers 14:34, reads:
"And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years..." (Numbers 14:33,34a)

I don't know which translation this is from but in the translations I looked at (Numbers 14 34 For forty years--one year for each of the forty days you explored the land--you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you. ) it is apparent that God says he will punish the Jews for one year for each day they spied. That is God's justice and there is no confusion of what a day or a year mean. To infer otherwise is frankly dishonest. The other examples are likewise twisted and taken out of context.

The NT tradition of setting up Jesus as Messiah is theological not historical. His fulfilling of scripture was oral tradition (like GW and the cherry tree), written down decades after he lived and was meant to establish Jesus' bona fides. It failed to convince Jews in great numbers, perhaps since they were familiar with the scripture but it works fine on the gentiles.

Bible Numbers: A day can equal a year:
The following are examples of a day representing a year in the bible
1) "A day for each year" in the account of the ten spies returning with a bad report to Moses about the Promised Land after spying it out for 40 days:

• 
  "And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years..." (Numbers 14:33,34a

Not sure why you think repeating this makes it more convincing? God set his punishment at one year for each day of transgression. There is absolutely no confusion as to what constitutes a day and what constitutes a year.

On a side note, I am sorry you missed your Messiah, because your people crucified Him, and were ashamed to admit it.​

Not much of a God that would allow himself to be killed against his will. The Jews of that time expected a very different messiah, they were looking for a leader to free the nation of Israel, not a condemned criminal. Their reaction would likely have been the same as yours if someone asserted that David Koresh or Charles Manson was sent by God. They also knew their scripture: Deuteronomy 21:23 - anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse.

 

[Indeependent]

What is the relevance of posting verses that are only effective when the Sanhedrin exists?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Daniel is told that to bring an end to sin and transgression, all these prophecies would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. The second verse goes on to tell us that from the decree to rebuild the temple until Messiah comes is 69 weeks. But what were these weeks. An in depth reading finds that these were weeks of years,

Can you provide any references or information on this in depth reading? Never heard of this before.

I first learned of this many years ago. There was a man who did a series I just happened to catch that first exposed me to the idea. I will have to do some digging and come up with that.

I'm sincerely interested in the results and look forward to your response. Thanks.

Here is some of it, though, I will have to drive to Greeneville to get the name of the teacher who I first saw on video back in the mid 90's. It was my first exposure to the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

A day equals a year in the bible

This explains how many get that 1 day equals 1 year, due to Scripture. Hope it helps, and i'll get back to you with that name.

First, thanks for finding the info, very interesting, but ultimately unconvincing. It is obvious to me that the OT is being twisted to provide the answer required, that these numbers point to Jesus.

The first example cited by your link, Numbers 14:34, reads:
"And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years..." (Numbers 14:33,34a)

I don't know which translation this is from but in the translations I looked at (Numbers 14 34 For forty years--one year for each of the forty days you explored the land--you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you. ) it is apparent that God says he will punish the Jews for one year for each day they spied. That is God's justice and there is no confusion of what a day or a year mean. To infer otherwise is frankly dishonest. The other examples are likewise twisted and taken out of context.

The NT tradition of setting up Jesus as Messiah is theological not historical. His fulfilling of scripture was oral tradition (like GW and the cherry tree), written down decades after he lived and was meant to establish Jesus' bona fides. It failed to convince Jews in great numbers, perhaps since they were familiar with the scripture but it works fine on the gentiles.

Bible Numbers: A day can equal a year:
The following are examples of a day representing a year in the bible
1) "A day for each year" in the account of the ten spies returning with a bad report to Moses about the Promised Land after spying it out for 40 days:

• 
  "And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years..." (Numbers 14:33,34a

Not sure why you think repeating this makes it more convincing? God set his punishment at one year for each day of transgression. There is absolutely no confusion as to what constitutes a day and what constitutes a year.

On a side note, I am sorry you missed your Messiah, because your people crucified Him, and were ashamed to admit it.​

Not much of a God that would allow himself to be killed against his will. The Jews of that time expected a very different messiah, they were looking for a leader to free the nation of Israel, not a condemned criminal. Their reaction would likely have been the same as yours if someone asserted that David Koresh or Charles Manson was sent by God. They also knew their scripture: Deuteronomy 21:23 - anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse.

It was never against God's will. God the Son, became a man, to become the perfect sacrifice, so that all men, would have the chance to be saved, not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well.(And wow, do the Jews hate that.)

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whomsoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This fulfilled the promise God made to Abraham:
Genesis 22:18"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

NOW, On to Deuteronomy 21:22"If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance

By the law of Moses, the touch of a dead body was defiling, therefore dead bodies must not be left hanging, as that would defile the land. There is one reason here which has reference to Christ; He that is hanged is accursed of God; that is, it is the highest degree of disgrace and reproach. Those who see a man thus hanging between heaven and earth, will conclude him abandoned of both, and unworthy of either. Moses, by the Spirit, uses this phrase of being accursed of God, when he means no more than being treated most disgracefully, that it might afterward be applied to the death of Christ, and might show that in it he underwent the curse of the law for us; which proves his love, and encourages to faith in him.-Mathew Henry

 

[Indeependent]

Mathew Henry...another Apologist.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Mathew Henry...another Apologist.