Did the Jews miss thier Messiah?

[UllysesS.Archer]

Mathew Henry...another Apologist.

Keep making up stuff as you go, and provide no links to prove any of what you say, hmmm, yep, you're a troll.

 

[Indeependent]

A better way to see how the Jews did not miss their "messiah"...

The average Jew, including Yeshu, who lived in Israel at that point in history spoke 1 or more of 3 languages...
[1] Aramaic, a carry over from the Babylonian exile and the language of the Talmud.
[2] Greek; highly unlikely as there was nothing compelling to the majority of Jews concerning Greek culture.
[3] Used mostly for prayed and considered too sacred for daily usage.

Along comes Yeshu to a relatively highly educated Jewish populace and starts spouting his interpretations of the Torah, Prophets and Writings.
He must have come off as an ignoramus and was thus ignored.

Along comes Saul of Tarsus, some 40 or more years later, and starts preaching to the Greeks and Romans, who know ZERO scripture and certainly zero Hebrew.
There's a possibility for some success.

The verses quoted from the Jewish Scripture are mangled from Hebrew to Greek, and many decades later into Latin and centuries later into Ye Olde English.
And today everybody thinks Yeshu spoke English!

 

[Indeependent]

Keep making up stuff as you go, and provide no links to prove any of what you say, hmmm, yep, you're a troll.

Which is still far more polite than telling billions of people they're going to the Eternal Lake of Fire.
Talk about a religion suffering from an inferiority complex.

 

[alang1216]

God the Son, became a man, to become the perfect sacrifice, so that all men, would have the chance to be saved, not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well.(And wow, do the Jews hate that.)

I don't think hate is what Jews feel for Christians, it's more the other way round. What likely irked Jews is that Christians took this Jewish preacher and ignored what he preached (you don't need to disagree, that's a given, I'm just trying to see it from the Jewish point of view), built an entirely new religion all about him, and then claimed they were still Jews and appropriated the Jewish God as their own.

Jewish salvation was based on being in God's good graces as the NATION of Israel. There was no individual salvation, you were all in it together. Christianity turned that understanding on it's head. Jews didn't begrudge others their salvation through their gods (I don't believe Judaism at that time was monotheistic) but they had an exclusivity clause with their God that Christians didn't honor.

 

[Indeependent]

God the Son, became a man, to become the perfect sacrifice, so that all men, would have the chance to be saved, not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well.(And wow, do the Jews hate that.)

I don't think hate is what Jews feel for Christians, it's more the other way round. What likely irked Jews is that Christians took this Jewish preacher and ignored what he preached (you don't need to disagree, that's a given, I'm just trying to see it from the Jewish point of view), built an entirely new religion all about him, and then claimed they were still Jews and appropriated the Jewish God as their own.

Jewish salvation was based on being in God's good graces as the NATION of Israel. There was no individual salvation, you were all in it together. Christianity turned that understanding on it's head. Jews didn't begrudge others their salvation through their gods (I don't believe Judaism at that time was monotheistic) but they had an exclusivity clause with their God that Christians didn't honor.

Monotheism dates back to Adam.
The Children of Israel were Monotheistic but many needed a visible manifestation of God; thus, worshiping an idol.

 

[MaxGrit]

Jews didn't begrudge others their salvation through their gods (I don't believe Judaism at that time was monotheistic) but they had an exclusivity clause with their God that Christians didn't honor.

What make you think that?

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

God the Son, became a man, to become the perfect sacrifice, so that all men, would have the chance to be saved, not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well.(And wow, do the Jews hate that.)

I don't think hate is what Jews feel for Christians, it's more the other way round. What likely irked Jews is that Christians took this Jewish preacher and ignored what he preached (you don't need to disagree, that's a given, I'm just trying to see it from the Jewish point of view), built an entirely new religion all about him, and then claimed they were still Jews and appropriated the Jewish God as their own.

Jewish salvation was based on being in God's good graces as the NATION of Israel. There was no individual salvation, you were all in it together. Christianity turned that understanding on it's head. Jews didn't begrudge others their salvation through their gods (I don't believe Judaism at that time was monotheistic) but they had an exclusivity clause with their God that Christians didn't honor.

I didn't mean that the Jews hated the Christians, they just hate the fact, that the gentiles have usurped God, and the fact that Christians use the Torah, in the Bible.

 

[MaxGrit]

I didn't mean that the Jews hated the Christians, they just hate the fact, that the gentiles have usurped God, and the fact that Christians use the Torah, in the Bible.

The mystery in the Torah was revealed by Jesus Christ as the Son of God. God's plan revealed.

Romans

"What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery,
and the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."

 

[alang1216]

Monotheism dates back to Adam.
The Children of Israel were Monotheistic but many needed a visible manifestation of God; thus, worshiping an idol.

The story of Genesis we have today was oral history for perhaps 3,000 years. Hard to imagine that it never changed so going back to Adam is not convincing.

Why do you believe the early Jews were monotheistic? One of the oldest Jewish lines is God saying "you will have no other gods before me". Not that there were no other gods, only that the covenant with the Jews was that he'd be there one and only. I seem improbable that the Jews during the exodus would have even thought to turn to that idol in hard times if they were truly monotheists. Only a polytheist would think that there is another god he might get help from.

 

[alang1216]

Jews didn't begrudge others their salvation through their gods (I don't believe Judaism at that time was monotheistic) but they had an exclusivity clause with their God that Christians didn't honor.

What make you think that?

Please be specific but generally I believe what I believe from logic, study, and personal observation.

 

[sealybobo]

Armageddon has to come to the Middle East first before Jesus comes back. So let's nuke ISIS. That should get things going.

I can't wait to wake up one day and find all the Christians have been raptured up to heaven. Think about the heaven on earth with all them gone. More land, plenty of food, freedom from religion, less pollution, no right wingers trying to ban abortion or stem cell research.

 

[Indeependent]

Monotheism dates back to Adam.
The Children of Israel were Monotheistic but many needed a visible manifestation of God; thus, worshiping an idol.

The story of Genesis we have today was oral history for perhaps 3,000 years. Hard to imagine that it never changed so going back to Adam is not convincing.

Why do you believe the early Jews were monotheistic? One of the oldest Jewish lines is God saying "you will have no other gods before me". Not that there were no other gods, only that the covenant with the Jews was that he'd be there one and only. I seem improbable that the Jews during the exodus would have even thought to turn to that idol in hard times if they were truly monotheists. Only a polytheist would think that there is another god he might get help from.

You have been trained, like myself, to think like a Christian.

"you will have no other gods before me" covers both being polytheistic like the Egyptians were, as well as various segments of the Jews running off and each group worshiping a "god" besides god.
Most of the Jews who encountered Elijah were monotheists, but they worshiped the god Ba'al (Owner).

If you read the episode of the Golden Calf you will see that only 27,000 out of the millions who left Egypt wanted a physical representation of God.
3,000 were killed by the sword and God killed 24,000 more who drank of the mixture that Moshe handed out to the nation.

 

[Indeependent]

The story of Genesis we have today was oral history for perhaps 3,000 years. Hard to imagine that it never changed so going back to Adam is not convincing.

Why do you believe the early Jews were monotheistic? One of the oldest Jewish lines is God saying "you will have no other gods before me". Not that there were no other gods, only that the covenant with the Jews was that he'd be there one and only. I seem improbable that the Jews during the exodus would have even thought to turn to that idol in hard times if they were truly monotheists. Only a polytheist would think that there is another god he might get help from.

The Adam issue is whether or not you accept that the Torah we have today is truly God's word transmitted through Moshe.
If you don't, that's a different discussion that might require reverse engineering history to a point where 3 generations of educated Jews were conned into believing something that isn't true.

 

[Youwerecreated]

UllysesS.Archer,
REALLY?
Challenge...Go through every link to TJS and show me the word "messiah".

Challenge,how would the Jews Identify the messiah ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Armageddon has to come to the Middle East first before Jesus comes back. So let's nuke ISIS. That should get things going.

I can't wait to wake up one day and find all the Christians have been raptured up to heaven. Think about the heaven on earth with all them gone. More land, plenty of food, freedom from religion, less pollution, no right wingers trying to ban abortion or stem cell research.

If that happens you would be left here with the radical muslims.

 

[alang1216]

Monotheism dates back to Adam.
The Children of Israel were Monotheistic but many needed a visible manifestation of God; thus, worshiping an idol.

The story of Genesis we have today was oral history for perhaps 3,000 years. Hard to imagine that it never changed so going back to Adam is not convincing.

Why do you believe the early Jews were monotheistic? One of the oldest Jewish lines is God saying "you will have no other gods before me". Not that there were no other gods, only that the covenant with the Jews was that he'd be there one and only. I seem improbable that the Jews during the exodus would have even thought to turn to that idol in hard times if they were truly monotheists. Only a polytheist would think that there is another god he might get help from.

You have been trained, like myself, to think like a Christian.

"you will have no other gods before me" covers both being polytheistic like the Egyptians were, as well as various segments of the Jews running off and each group worshiping a "god" besides god.
Most of the Jews who encountered Elijah were monotheists, but they worshiped the god Ba'al (Owner).

If you read the episode of the Golden Calf you will see that only 27,000 out of the millions who left Egypt wanted a physical representation of God.
3,000 were killed by the sword and God killed 24,000 more who drank of the mixture that Moshe handed out to the nation.

Here is an interesting study of the development of monotheism of the Jews. I believe the early Jews were monolaterists: "The study of Israelite monotheism is complicated by this factor, as monotheism has usually been defined as a matter of belief in one deity whereas monolatry has been understood as a matter of practice, specifically, the worship of only one deity, sometimes coupled with a tolerance for other peoples’ worship of their deities."

As to the numbers you provide of the exiles, I think you are off by several orders of magnitude. It seems likely that the Israels that left Egypt numbered in the hundreds.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I can't wait to wake up one day and find all the Christians have been raptured up to heaven. Think about the heaven on earth with all them gone. More land, plenty of food, freedom from religion, less pollution, no right wingers trying to ban abortion or stem cell research.

Uh no. If all the Christians were raptured up then presumedly the stuff which follows that would happen too. Bad for us.

 

[BillyP]

I can't wait to wake up one day and find all the Christians have been raptured up to heaven. Think about the heaven on earth with all them gone. More land, plenty of food, freedom from religion, less pollution, no right wingers trying to ban abortion or stem cell research.

Uh no. If all the Christians were raptured up then presumedly the stuff which follows that would happen too. Bad for us.

Maybe they could just all drink some Jim Jones cool-aid.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Step by step, verse by verse PROOF Yeshua was not the Jewish Messiah.

"Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

1. Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists."

Yashua didn't "fail" to fulfill any of those. He just has not come back the second time at which point he WILL fulfill all of those.

Nowhere in those verses does it say that he had to fulfill those on a specific date. Please show me in the Bible where it says that if he did not perform those prophecies on a specific date that he would be disqualified.

The antichrist will come in his own name and him you will receive.

 

[Hollie]

Why Jews Don t Believe In Jesus why Jews reject Jesus

Step by step, verse by verse PROOF Yeshua was not the Jewish Messiah.

"Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

1. Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Specifically, the Bible says he will:

1. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
2. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
3. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
4. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists."

Yashua didn't "fail" to fulfill any of those. He just has not come back the second time at which point he WILL fulfill all of those.

Nowhere in those verses does it say that he had to fulfill those on a specific date. Please show me in the Bible where it says that if he did not perform those prophecies on a specific date that he would be disqualified.

The antichrist will come in his own name and him you will receive.

The "end times" pathology that afflicts fundies is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.