Do Palestinians Have the Right to Defend Themselves?

[toastman]

BTW, you're using a UN document. The same U.N who's partition plan was used by both Israel and 'Palestine' to declare independence.
The same U.N that recognized Israel after they declared independence. The same U.N that gave Israel full membership one year after they declared independence.
So if the land was stolen, why didn't they say so or do anything about it ?

 

[pbel]

BTW, you're using a UN document. The same U.N who's partition plan was used by both Israel and 'Palestine' to declare independence.
The same U.N that recognized Israel after they declared independence. The same U.N that gave Israel full membership one year after they declared independence.
So if the land was stolen, why didn't they say so or do anything about it ?

Because the Colonial powers of Britain, France and the like plus UN Control pushed through a vote down the Throats of the Arabs and control the oil fields, Israel was simply a projection of that power to this day as a strategic lackey.

 

[montelatici]

BTW, you're using a UN document. The same U.N who's partition plan was used by both Israel and 'Palestine' to declare independence.
The same U.N that recognized Israel after they declared independence. The same U.N that gave Israel full membership one year after they declared independence.
So if the land was stolen, why didn't they say so or do anything about it ?

The UN legal subcommittee that addressed the issue said as much.

 

[toastman]

BTW, you're using a UN document. The same U.N who's partition plan was used by both Israel and 'Palestine' to declare independence.
The same U.N that recognized Israel after they declared independence. The same U.N that gave Israel full membership one year after they declared independence.
So if the land was stolen, why didn't they say so or do anything about it ?

The UN legal subcommittee that addressed the issue said as much.

They did not say that Israel stole land.

 

[toastman]

BTW, you're using a UN document. The same U.N who's partition plan was used by both Israel and 'Palestine' to declare independence.
The same U.N that recognized Israel after they declared independence. The same U.N that gave Israel full membership one year after they declared independence.
So if the land was stolen, why didn't they say so or do anything about it ?

Because the Colonial powers of Britain, France and the like plus UN Control pushed through a vote down the Throats of the Arabs and control the oil fields, Israel was simply a projection of that power to this day as a strategic lackey.

You'll use any bullshit excuse, won\t you Pbel ?

 

[montelatici]

They said that giving the land to the Europeans was not within the authority of the UN. Read the source document I uploaded.

 

[montelatici]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

 

[toastman]

They said that giving the land to the Europeans was not within the authority of the UN. Read the source document I uploaded.

They didn't give the land to the Europeans. That would be a matter of real estate.

The Jewish Agency followed the steps preparatory to independence after showing the ability to self govern themselves.

 

[toastman]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

In 1988, the Palestinians DID agree to 181, by using it as a basis to declare independence.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

In 1988, the Palestinians DID agree to 181, by using it as a basis to declare independence.

Indeed, and it didn't mean jack shit.

 

[Roudy]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh --- you are parsing words.

P F Tinmore, et al,

What dope are you smoking?

I agree. The Mandate was a temporarily assigned trustee. As such it had the authority to act on the Palestinian's behalf.

The Palestinians never declined self rule.

(COMMENT)

The Partition Plan offered self-rule over an Arab State. It was rejected by the Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R

"An Arab state." Not Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Palestine is a Mandate Term for the territory to which the Mandate applied (or formerly applied). The perimeter of the territory was surveyed-out by the Allied Powers, as determined by the that area surrendered by the Ottoman Empire (1918) and relinquished by the Republic of Turkey (1920).

Armistice of Mudros, (30 October 1918), pact signed at the port of Mudros, on the Aegean island of Lemnos, between the Ottoman Empire and Great Britain (representing the Allied powers) marking the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I (1914–18).

Under the terms of the armistice, the Ottomans surrendered their remaining garrisons in Hejaz, Yemen, Syria, Mesopotamia, Tripolitania, and Cyrenaica; the Allies were to occupy the Straits of the Dardanelles and the Bosporus, Batum (now in southwest Georgia), and the Taurus tunnel system; and the Allies won the right to occupy “in case of disorder” the six Armenian provinces in Anatolia and to seize “any strategic points” in case of a threat to Allied security. The Ottoman army was demobilized, and Turkish ports, railways, and other strategic points were made available for use by the Allies.

ARTICLE 139 (10 August 1920) Treaty between the Principle Allied Powers and the High Contracting Parties with the Government and His Majesty the Sultan, Ottoman Empire

Turkey renounces formally all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction of any kind over Moslems who are subject to the sovereignty or protectorate of any other State.

No power shall be exercised directly or indirectly by any Turkish authority whatever in any territory detached from Turkey or of which the existing status under the present Treaty is recognized by Turkey.​

In either case, the Arab Palestinian (citizens of the Government of Palestine with the Mandatory acting as said government) where not the successors of any sovereign authority. The Allied Powers "can" provisionally recognized the existence as independent nations (it did not have to make provisional recognition) --- subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The Treaty of Peace with Turkey (AKA: Treaty of Lausanne) --- signed at Lausanne, 24 July 1923, wherein the Republic of Turkey was the successor government to the Ottoman Government. The Treaty of Lausanne does not independently address Palestine as a separate entity. Within the meaning of the Treaty, Palestine (not identified) was a component of the Syria (a split territory between Great Britain and France):

From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:

(I ) With Syria: The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921
(2) With Iraq:​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, Rocco. The UN legal subcommittee which gave the legal opinion cleared all this up in a very hard to find document.

To

I didn't call you Mohammad, I said stick it up your Mohammad, Abdul. Israel was declared a state by the UN as all the other Arab Muslim shitholes formed out of the collapsed Ottoman Empire. Except in the case of Isrsel, five Arab countries attacked it the day it was declared a state.

In an attempt to prevent Israel from evicting non-Jews and stealing even more land.

And you have failed to prove this claim how many times now. The Jews were not stealing land as International law shows, and only evicted illegal immigrants that were attacking the Jews.

His own UN documents show that there was no "stealing of land by Jews". In fact, far from it. Ha ha ha.

The UN documents clearly state that the Christians and Muslims owned 85% of the land. So, if it is now in the hands of Jews it is stolen.

Here's how stupid your logic is.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh --- you are parsing words.

P F Tinmore, et al,

What dope are you smoking?

I agree. The Mandate was a temporarily assigned trustee. As such it had the authority to act on the Palestinian's behalf.

The Palestinians never declined self rule.

(COMMENT)

The Partition Plan offered self-rule over an Arab State. It was rejected by the Arab Palestinian.

Most Respectfully,
R

"An Arab state." Not Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Palestine is a Mandate Term for the territory to which the Mandate applied (or formerly applied). The perimeter of the territory was surveyed-out by the Allied Powers, as determined by the that area surrendered by the Ottoman Empire (1918) and relinquished by the Republic of Turkey (1920).

Armistice of Mudros, (30 October 1918), pact signed at the port of Mudros, on the Aegean island of Lemnos, between the Ottoman Empire and Great Britain (representing the Allied powers) marking the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I (1914–18).

Under the terms of the armistice, the Ottomans surrendered their remaining garrisons in Hejaz, Yemen, Syria, Mesopotamia, Tripolitania, and Cyrenaica; the Allies were to occupy the Straits of the Dardanelles and the Bosporus, Batum (now in southwest Georgia), and the Taurus tunnel system; and the Allies won the right to occupy “in case of disorder” the six Armenian provinces in Anatolia and to seize “any strategic points” in case of a threat to Allied security. The Ottoman army was demobilized, and Turkish ports, railways, and other strategic points were made available for use by the Allies.

ARTICLE 139 (10 August 1920) Treaty between the Principle Allied Powers and the High Contracting Parties with the Government and His Majesty the Sultan, Ottoman Empire

Turkey renounces formally all rights of suzerainty or jurisdiction of any kind over Moslems who are subject to the sovereignty or protectorate of any other State.

No power shall be exercised directly or indirectly by any Turkish authority whatever in any territory detached from Turkey or of which the existing status under the present Treaty is recognized by Turkey.​

In either case, the Arab Palestinian (citizens of the Government of Palestine with the Mandatory acting as said government) where not the successors of any sovereign authority. The Allied Powers "can" provisionally recognized the existence as independent nations (it did not have to make provisional recognition) --- subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The Treaty of Peace with Turkey (AKA: Treaty of Lausanne) --- signed at Lausanne, 24 July 1923, wherein the Republic of Turkey was the successor government to the Ottoman Government. The Treaty of Lausanne does not independently address Palestine as a separate entity. Within the meaning of the Treaty, Palestine (not identified) was a component of the Syria (a split territory between Great Britain and France):

From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:

(I ) With Syria: The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921
(2) With Iraq:​

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, Rocco. The UN legal subcommittee which gave the legal opinion cleared all this up in a very hard to find document.

To

I didn't call you Mohammad, I said stick it up your Mohammad, Abdul. Israel was declared a state by the UN as all the other Arab Muslim shitholes formed out of the collapsed Ottoman Empire. Except in the case of Isrsel, five Arab countries attacked it the day it was declared a state.

In an attempt to prevent Israel from evicting non-Jews and stealing even more land.

And you have failed to prove this claim how many times now. The Jews were not stealing land as International law shows, and only evicted illegal immigrants that were attacking the Jews.

His own UN documents show that there was no "stealing of land by Jews". In fact, far from it. Ha ha ha.

The UN documents clearly state that the Christians and Muslims owned 85% of the land. So, if it is now in the hands of Jews it is stolen.

Just to show you how stupid your logic is:

You provide a document that shows the land being mostly owned by Arabs and Christians in the early 1900's. Then you bring up the fact that since Jews own most of the land now, it automatically means it's stolen. You're so ridiculous !

Do you even have a valid link to back up your claim ?

He has two documents that he keeps posting as an answer to everything, does that count?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal.​

Which shows who has legal control of Palestinian land. It is the right to territorial integrity as stated in other UN resolutions.

 

[toastman]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

In 1988, the Palestinians DID agree to 181, by using it as a basis to declare independence.

Indeed, and it didn't mean jack shit.

Yes it does. It means 181 was implemented, which refute your lie that it wasn't.

 

[Roudy]

Palestinians aren't going anywhere. They already represent a majority of the people under Israeli control and their majority is increasing. When Netanyahu confirmed that Israel was not interested in negotiating for the establishment of a Palestinian state, there are only a few options:

1. The creation of a secular democratic state where all people (of all religions) are enfranchised.
2. Continued Apartheid
3.Ethnic cleansing
4 Genocide of the Christians and Muslims of Palestine

I doubt even the U.S. would go along with the latter 2 options.

While Palestine never was, Israel is here to stay and steaming ahead into the future. Israel will never let the Arab Muslim savages of the Middle East commit ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Jews, Christians., and other ethnic minorities as they have done elsewhere. You can take that to Bank Leumi.

The Nazi Mufti of Palestine stated in his own words that once the Muslims have control, the savages intended to first wipe out the Jews and then the Christians in "Palestine".

Are you upset that his plans didn't come to fruition, scum?

There never was a Palestinian state, and inshallah never will be. Does the world really need another Islamic terrorist shithole filled with intolerant savages and barbarians?

Honestly Roudy, you should join a circus!

And join you? No thanks, doing just fine. So tell us, when did this Palestinian state exist that the Israelis are "stealing" or "occupying"? And would you like for me to quote you the Hamas charter which calls for an Islamic Caliphate of Palestine on the corpse of the Jewish state?

 

[pbel]

Palestinians aren't going anywhere. They already represent a majority of the people under Israeli control and their majority is increasing. When Netanyahu confirmed that Israel was not interested in negotiating for the establishment of a Palestinian state, there are only a few options:

1. The creation of a secular democratic state where all people (of all religions) are enfranchised.
2. Continued Apartheid
3.Ethnic cleansing
4 Genocide of the Christians and Muslims of Palestine

I doubt even the U.S. would go along with the latter 2 options.

While Palestine never was, Israel is here to stay and steaming ahead into the future. Israel will never let the Arab Muslim savages of the Middle East commit ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Jews, Christians., and other ethnic minorities as they have done elsewhere. You can take that to Bank Leumi.

The Nazi Mufti of Palestine stated in his own words that once the Muslims have control, the savages intended to first wipe out the Jews and then the Christians in "Palestine".

Are you upset that his plans didn't come to fruition, scum?

There never was a Palestinian state, and inshallah never will be. Does the world really need another Islamic terrorist shithole filled with intolerant savages and barbarians?

Honestly Roudy, you should join a circus!

And join you? No thanks, doing just fine. So tell us, when did this Palestinian state exist that the Israelis are "stealing" or "occupying"? And would you like for me to quote you the Hamas charter which calls for an Islamic Caliphate of Palestine on the corpse of the Jewish state?

You're a double talker using irrelevant facts that Palestine never existed as a state as though people of Arab origin never lived there to have rights...Israel should share the land and let the Palestinians form their Nation free from ZioNazi oppression.

Yea, PT BARNUM is for you and your double-talk, albeit funny!

 

[Roudy]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

Well of course the Muslims would never agree to any land being ruled by non Muslims, and that's not BASIC RACISM AND INTOLERANCE now is it? Besides who cares if the Arabs would agree to it or not, it really wasn't up to them. Again, land was ruled by Ottomans for 700 years, that wasn't "legal", but Arabs didn't say jack about it, then it was conquered and under the control of the British who gave all but less than 1% of the land to Arabs and Muslims. This less than 1% aka Israel was land that has been the Jewish spiritual, religious, and cultural holy land for over 3000 years, more so than for any other religion. So again, excuse us if we just don't give a shiite what a bunch of invading squatting Arabs have to say about land that wasn't under their control as to the destiny of the Jewish holy land.

 

[Roudy]

Palestinians aren't going anywhere. They already represent a majority of the people under Israeli control and their majority is increasing. When Netanyahu confirmed that Israel was not interested in negotiating for the establishment of a Palestinian state, there are only a few options:

1. The creation of a secular democratic state where all people (of all religions) are enfranchised.
2. Continued Apartheid
3.Ethnic cleansing
4 Genocide of the Christians and Muslims of Palestine

I doubt even the U.S. would go along with the latter 2 options.

While Palestine never was, Israel is here to stay and steaming ahead into the future. Israel will never let the Arab Muslim savages of the Middle East commit ethnic cleansing and genocide on the Jews, Christians., and other ethnic minorities as they have done elsewhere. You can take that to Bank Leumi.

The Nazi Mufti of Palestine stated in his own words that once the Muslims have control, the savages intended to first wipe out the Jews and then the Christians in "Palestine".

Are you upset that his plans didn't come to fruition, scum?

There never was a Palestinian state, and inshallah never will be. Does the world really need another Islamic terrorist shithole filled with intolerant savages and barbarians?

Honestly Roudy, you should join a circus!

And join you? No thanks, doing just fine. So tell us, when did this Palestinian state exist that the Israelis are "stealing" or "occupying"? And would you like for me to quote you the Hamas charter which calls for an Islamic Caliphate of Palestine on the corpse of the Jewish state?

You're a double talker using irrelevant facts that Palestine never existed as a state as though people of Arab origin never lived there to have rights...Israel should share the land and let the Palestinians form their Nation free from ZioNazi oppression.

Yea, PT BARNUM is for you and your double-talk, albeit funny!

Yada yada yada. The word occupation is another fraud just like the Palestinian people. Since Palestinian state never existed, the Arabs are simply refugees from a war that resulted due to Arab aggression. Since the Palestinians have shown over and over that they want to form this state that never existed on the corpse of the Jewish state, then perhaps they can form it in Jordan, where it was supposed to be formed in the first place?

 

[Roudy]

BTW, you're using a UN document. The same U.N who's partition plan was used by both Israel and 'Palestine' to declare independence.
The same U.N that recognized Israel after they declared independence. The same U.N that gave Israel full membership one year after they declared independence.
So if the land was stolen, why didn't they say so or do anything about it ?

Because the Colonial powers of Britain, France and the like plus UN Control pushed through a vote down the Throats of the Arabs and control the oil fields, Israel was simply a projection of that power to this day as a strategic lackey.

Because the Colonial powers of Britain, France and the like plus UN Control pushed through a vote down the Throats of the Arabs and control the oil fields, Israel was simply a projection of that power to this day as a strategic lackey.[/QUOTE]
Britain and France weren't "colonial powers" in this case, they defeated the Germans and the Ottoman Turks who defeated the Arabs and ruled over that region for 700 years. They then gave 99% of the land the Ottomans controlled to the Arabs. You're just using the catch phrase "colonial powers" to obfuscate what really happened which had NOTHING to do with European colonialism. Actually the Arabs owe the Brits and the French a big THANK YOU for freeing them from Ottoman rule for 700 years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I have the whole document I will upload it if you like. It is the legal review of the partition plan by the UN legal department. The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal. The UN (controlled by the European and American powers) ignored this determination for political reasons and basic racism.

The lawyers determined that partitioning Palestine without the agreement of the Palestinian people was not legal.​

Which shows who has legal control of Palestinian land. It is the right to territorial integrity as stated in other UN resolutions.

The partition resolution of the General Assembly violates international law in another important respect. It contradicts the principle of the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. As Quincy Wright explains in his legal analysis of the Palestine problem, the General Assembly resolution “partitioning Palestine and establishing the state of Israel as demanded by Zionists is difficult to reconcile with this principle. Local hostilities between Zionist and Arab forces deprived the ‘peoples’ in the mandated territory of rights explicitly protected by the Mandate and Article 80 of the Charter without their consent.

Palestinian-Israeli Conflict​

 

[Roudy]

^^^^^^
Exactly. The Arabs refused to accept the existence of a Jewish state, a civil war erupted, the Jews won.

Tissue?