Do The Wealthy Even Pay Taxes?

[frigidweirdo]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

 

[edthecynic]

They pay the vast majority of them.
Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You can tell though, from his post, his mind is made up. In his mind the wealthy pay no taxes!

They don't! They count on your stupidity in believing they do.

IRS has a different take on that.

A perfect example of the stupidity the truly wealthy count on.
Thank you.

So you are saying that the money that IRS is getting from them is in fact fake?

And now the dumb act!
The IRS collects money from WAGE earners, not the truly wealthy who do not work for wages.

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...

But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

January 09, 2013
RUSH: I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.

The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You do realize that you get your information from liars, don't you. Also, do you pay taxes? If you said yes, I say BULLSHEIT! At least you don't pay what you think you pay. I know. Because if you were anything like me, every paycheck had taxes removed from it. But in the new year after you filed your tax returns, you got most of it back.

So for the most part, what you call taxes were nothing more than a temporary government loan. In fact, you were probably glad about it. Because instead of trying to save money, you got a nice fat tax return. To buy something you normally wouldn't have been able to afford. Am I right or am I wrong. Also, I will include a graph that shows the tax burden for state taxes by income level. See how your "top 20% paying 84%" fits into that.

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

 

[Skull Pilot]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can tell though, from his post, his mind is made up. In his mind the wealthy pay no taxes!

They don't! They count on your stupidity in believing they do.

IRS has a different take on that.

A perfect example of the stupidity the truly wealthy count on.
Thank you.

So you are saying that the money that IRS is getting from them is in fact fake?

And now the dumb act!
The IRS collects money from WAGE earners, not the truly wealthy who do not work for wages.

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...

But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

January 09, 2013
RUSH: I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.

The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Actually wealth is taxed when it is sold off.

If you live off of a portfolio every time you cash out you get taxed on the gain

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gee, yes they do, latest year data available, 2015

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/14in11si.xls

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

Wall Street Journal, gee, they couldn't have a dog in that fight could they.

High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be ‘fair’?

80% of Americans own an unbelievably small portion of the country's wealth

May the trend continue until there is unrest in the streets.

That's meaningless

 

[Skull Pilot]

They pay the vast majority of them.
Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

Those are WAGE earners, not the wealthy. The truly wealthy do NOT work for the common WAGE, and pay no taxes. On paper the wealthy own nothing taxable!!!

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

The wealthy do pay taxes they pay capital gains taxes

 

[edthecynic]

They don't! They count on your stupidity in believing they do.

IRS has a different take on that.

A perfect example of the stupidity the truly wealthy count on.
Thank you.

So you are saying that the money that IRS is getting from them is in fact fake?

And now the dumb act!
The IRS collects money from WAGE earners, not the truly wealthy who do not work for wages.

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...

But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

January 09, 2013
RUSH: I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.

The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Actually wealth is taxed when it is sold off.

If you live off of a portfolio every time you cash out you get taxed on the gain

So basically you are saying that wealth is like an unlimited IRA, growing tax free with no early withdrawal penalty and taxed when realized at a lower rate than wages.

 

[Skull Pilot]

IRS has a different take on that.

A perfect example of the stupidity the truly wealthy count on.
Thank you.

So you are saying that the money that IRS is getting from them is in fact fake?

And now the dumb act!
The IRS collects money from WAGE earners, not the truly wealthy who do not work for wages.

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...

But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

January 09, 2013
RUSH: I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.

The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Actually wealth is taxed when it is sold off.

If you live off of a portfolio every time you cash out you get taxed on the gain

So basically you are saying that wealth is like an unlimited IRA, growing tax free with no early withdrawal penalty and taxed when realized at a lower rate than wages.

All those gains will get used eventually so they will be taxed then

What does it matter if the growth is not taxed until it is used?

Do you want to pay more income tax every time your house increases in value?

And in case you didn't know all the gains in a traditional IRA or your 401k are taxed as regular income instead of the lower capital gains rates. This is the government screwing you not the rich.

 

[frigidweirdo]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

Yes, I know. That's not the point. Employers will cost in the amount payroll taxes cost them when they hire an individual. This is part of the problem with payroll taxes in determining who pays what.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"Perhaps one of the best-kept secrets of payroll taxes is that employees effectively pay almost the entire payroll tax, instead of splitting the burden with their employers."

"This is because tax incidence is not determined by law, but by markets. In fact, the person who is required to pay a tax to the federal government is often different than the person who bears the tax burden. Usually, the marketplace decides how the tax burden is divided between buyers and sellers, based on which party is more sensitive to changes in prices (economists call this “relative price elasticities”)."

And the question of S corp companies and things like that is how much money does it save them? How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that? The tax code is ridiculously complex and looks like it's been designed to hide lots of things.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

You do realize that you get your information from liars, don't you. Also, do you pay taxes? If you said yes, I say BULLSHEIT! At least you don't pay what you think you pay. I know. Because if you were anything like me, every paycheck had taxes removed from it. But in the new year after you filed your tax returns, you got most of it back.

So for the most part, what you call taxes were nothing more than a temporary government loan. In fact, you were probably glad about it. Because instead of trying to save money, you got a nice fat tax return. To buy something you normally wouldn't have been able to afford. Am I right or am I wrong. Also, I will include a graph that shows the tax burden for state taxes by income level. See how your "top 20% paying 84%" fits into that.

That graph says "State Residents" but you don't say what state and besides we are talking about federal taxes

The last time he posted that stupid chart of sales, excise and property taxes in the state of Washington,
his screen name was failsafe.

Screw "Tax The Poor" Capitalism.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

Yes, I know. That's not the point. Employers will cost in the amount payroll taxes cost them when they hire an individual. This is part of the problem with payroll taxes in determining who pays what.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"Perhaps one of the best-kept secrets of payroll taxes is that employees effectively pay almost the entire payroll tax, instead of splitting the burden with their employers."

"This is because tax incidence is not determined by law, but by markets. In fact, the person who is required to pay a tax to the federal government is often different than the person who bears the tax burden. Usually, the marketplace decides how the tax burden is divided between buyers and sellers, based on which party is more sensitive to changes in prices (economists call this “relative price elasticities”)."

And the question of S corp companies and things like that is how much money does it save them? How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that? The tax code is ridiculously complex and looks like it's been designed to hide lots of things.

How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that?

If I own 100% of my S corp company, I'm not really paying taxes? That's funny.

 

[edthecynic]

A perfect example of the stupidity the truly wealthy count on.
Thank you.

So you are saying that the money that IRS is getting from them is in fact fake?

And now the dumb act!
The IRS collects money from WAGE earners, not the truly wealthy who do not work for wages.

The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...

But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.

I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."

January 09, 2013
RUSH: I very cogently and timely reminded people that there are two kinds of rich. There are the income rich and the asset rich, and the asset rich are the people that you think about when you think of the rich.

The Bill Gateses and the Warren Buffetts and the Jeffrey Immelts and the Hollywood people -- the Wall Street people, the hedge fund people -- those are the asset wealthy, and they don't pay income taxes.

Actually wealth is taxed when it is sold off.

If you live off of a portfolio every time you cash out you get taxed on the gain

So basically you are saying that wealth is like an unlimited IRA, growing tax free with no early withdrawal penalty and taxed when realized at a lower rate than wages.

All those gains will get used eventually so they will be taxed then

What does it matter if the growth is not taxed until it is used?

Do you want to pay more income tax every time your house increases in value?

And in case you didn't know all the gains in a traditional IRA or your 401k are taxed as regular income instead of the lower capital gains rates. This is the government screwing you not the rich.

So you admit that wage earners are screwed even in their IRAs, but the wealthy have tax advantages that surpass even special programs set up for wage earners, but you probably didn't mean to admit it.

 

[edthecynic]

All those gains will get used eventually so they will be taxed then

No they won't. If money is suddenly needed it will be borrowed using the gains as collateral. Eventually the gains will be passed tax free to their children.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All those gains will get used eventually so they will be taxed then

No they won't. If money is suddenly needed it will be borrowed using the gains as collateral. Eventually the gains will be passed tax free to their children.

If money is suddenly needed it will be borrowed using the gains as collateral.

And when you sell any to pay back the loan, you're taxed on it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

Yes, I know. That's not the point. Employers will cost in the amount payroll taxes cost them when they hire an individual. This is part of the problem with payroll taxes in determining who pays what.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"Perhaps one of the best-kept secrets of payroll taxes is that employees effectively pay almost the entire payroll tax, instead of splitting the burden with their employers."

"This is because tax incidence is not determined by law, but by markets. In fact, the person who is required to pay a tax to the federal government is often different than the person who bears the tax burden. Usually, the marketplace decides how the tax burden is divided between buyers and sellers, based on which party is more sensitive to changes in prices (economists call this “relative price elasticities”)."

And the question of S corp companies and things like that is how much money does it save them? How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that? The tax code is ridiculously complex and looks like it's been designed to hide lots of things.

How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that?

If I own 100% of my S corp company, I'm not really paying taxes? That's funny.

You'd be paying taxes, you'd have to be paying yourself a wage, for a start....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They pay the vast majority of them.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

Yes, I know. That's not the point. Employers will cost in the amount payroll taxes cost them when they hire an individual. This is part of the problem with payroll taxes in determining who pays what.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"Perhaps one of the best-kept secrets of payroll taxes is that employees effectively pay almost the entire payroll tax, instead of splitting the burden with their employers."

"This is because tax incidence is not determined by law, but by markets. In fact, the person who is required to pay a tax to the federal government is often different than the person who bears the tax burden. Usually, the marketplace decides how the tax burden is divided between buyers and sellers, based on which party is more sensitive to changes in prices (economists call this “relative price elasticities”)."

And the question of S corp companies and things like that is how much money does it save them? How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that? The tax code is ridiculously complex and looks like it's been designed to hide lots of things.

How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that?

If I own 100% of my S corp company, I'm not really paying taxes? That's funny.

You'd be paying taxes, you'd have to be paying yourself a wage, for a start....

And I'd pay taxes on the corporate profit as well.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then this was written in the Journal of one of the rich people. Rupert Murdoch, rich man who loves the rich and Conservative.

The problem which such an analysis is, is it actually true, or is this a "fact" that has been taken out of context?

There are different statistics that show different things, and can be made out to mean different things if people don't know what they're looking at.

2014 Tax Day Chart: Who Pays the Most?

For example, here's a good chart which shows percentage earned and percentage paid in Federal income tax. As we can see based on Federal income tax that those in the top 10% pay more Federal income tax as a percentage of money earned compared to those below the top 10%.

The problem here is that this is only income tax.

So, income tax accounts for 47% of taxes.

So what about Payroll tax? Well, here's where things get complicated. This is paid on what people earn.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"This is an issue because it violates the principle of tax transparency: a tenet that states that tax burdens should not be hidden from taxpayers in complex structures."

Here's a different chart. Looks a bit different to the income tax one, right? The bottom 40% pay 4% of Federal taxes, as opposed to the bottom 50% paying 2%. Did you see what they did there? They went all out banging on about income taxes to make you feel like it's one thing, but then it's something else.

So the 60%-21% has got a little close, but it wasn't 60%-21% before it was 50%-25%, but hey....

What we can see is the top 1% were 19% to 37% of income taxes, that's a whopping 18% difference, now it's only 9% difference. Which means that all the other taxes that are going on, the rich are paying a lot less than the poorer people for.

But hey, they're paying more than their share of what they earn compared to what they pay, right?

But they're still misleading. I type in "how much payroll tax does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay?" and it tells me about income tax. I type in "how much "payroll tax" does the top 1% pay? -income" and finally I get something. One thing. The rest of the sites are all about how to pay payroll tax. They don't pump out payroll tax for the top 1% at all, they pump out INCOME TAX for the rich because it makes them look good.

But this isn't the only taxes that are going on, right?

So far we've only been dealing with individuals. Individuals get paid by the company they work for, but the company also has to pay taxes. Well, sometimes.

1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax

"
1 in 5 big U.S. companies pay no federal income tax"

Yeah, that's one in five of big US companies not paying their way, but that's only the ones that made a profit. Their employees, like CEO who receive a wage, are paying their income taxes, but the companies aren't.

"19.5 percent of larger companies -- defined as those with at least $10 million in assets -- that reported earnings paid no income tax that year, the GAO found."

"Overall, including businesses that didn't report a profit, roughly two-thirds of all larger companies in the U.S. had no federal income tax between 2006 and 2012."

That's like 66% of companies who earn over $10 million a year.

Corporate income tax has been going down and down for a long time. It somehow managed to rise from 2003 though, wars, huh!

Then you have state and city taxes, this is where a lot of big companies really get into dodging tax on a large scale.

The problem here as well is that a company can pay taxes, and then be given the money in other ways, which none of this will show. We know that Trump managed to squeeze nearly $1 billion out of New York City and State. Ridiculous.

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

Yes, I know. That's not the point. Employers will cost in the amount payroll taxes cost them when they hire an individual. This is part of the problem with payroll taxes in determining who pays what.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"Perhaps one of the best-kept secrets of payroll taxes is that employees effectively pay almost the entire payroll tax, instead of splitting the burden with their employers."

"This is because tax incidence is not determined by law, but by markets. In fact, the person who is required to pay a tax to the federal government is often different than the person who bears the tax burden. Usually, the marketplace decides how the tax burden is divided between buyers and sellers, based on which party is more sensitive to changes in prices (economists call this “relative price elasticities”)."

And the question of S corp companies and things like that is how much money does it save them? How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that? The tax code is ridiculously complex and looks like it's been designed to hide lots of things.

How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that?

If I own 100% of my S corp company, I'm not really paying taxes? That's funny.

You'd be paying taxes, you'd have to be paying yourself a wage, for a start....

And I'd pay taxes on the corporate profit as well.

But you wouldn't be paying to be a self employed person, so you'd be saving money.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How fruitful is it to talk about taxes with Progressives who never even filled out a 1040EZ?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Employers pay half of the payroll taxes.

And did you know that most US corporations are S corps and therefore do not have to file a corporate tax return?
All the profit is itemized on the shareholders' personal tax forms via IRS form K1

Yes, I know. That's not the point. Employers will cost in the amount payroll taxes cost them when they hire an individual. This is part of the problem with payroll taxes in determining who pays what.

What Are Payroll Taxes and Who Pays Them? - Tax Foundation

"Perhaps one of the best-kept secrets of payroll taxes is that employees effectively pay almost the entire payroll tax, instead of splitting the burden with their employers."

"This is because tax incidence is not determined by law, but by markets. In fact, the person who is required to pay a tax to the federal government is often different than the person who bears the tax burden. Usually, the marketplace decides how the tax burden is divided between buyers and sellers, based on which party is more sensitive to changes in prices (economists call this “relative price elasticities”)."

And the question of S corp companies and things like that is how much money does it save them? How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that? The tax code is ridiculously complex and looks like it's been designed to hide lots of things.

How much is this making it look like the rich are paying lots of taxes when the reality is things aren't like that?

If I own 100% of my S corp company, I'm not really paying taxes? That's funny.

You'd be paying taxes, you'd have to be paying yourself a wage, for a start....

And I'd pay taxes on the corporate profit as well.

But you wouldn't be paying to be a self employed person, so you'd be saving money.

S Corps pass their profit thru to the owner's tax return.