Do we let people die who do not have health insurance

[frigidweirdo]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

1) Health insurance companies are some of the biggest bastards in the world. "We don't cover pre-existing conditions, this is normal in the healthcare insurance industry", it's like saying it's okay to kill Jews simply because it was normal in Nazi Germany. It's NOT OKAY to not cover pre-existing condition. It's not okay for you to judge whether my cancer is the "right type of cancer to be treated", it's not okay for you to decide that you can't be bothered to cover things you don't like.

2) I'm no socialist, but private healthcare for poorer people is the biggest fucking con going. People who support this type of system are sickos.

Does auto insurance cover an accident you had before you obtain the auto insurance? I think not.

And again, you're showing reasons why insurance companies should NOT be involved in healthcare.

 

[Flash]

It is wrong for the government to force me to pay the bills of other people.

It is my responsibility to provide for my health care.

It is your responsibility to provide for your health care.

I many, because I am a generous person, chose to help you out if I think you deserve it but it is wrong for the government to force me to do it.

It is thievery for you to use the government to take my money and give it to you to pay your bills.

 

[deanrd]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

.
Thank you Hippocrates:


"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:...

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can but I will always look for a path to a cure for all diseases.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."




Note: this is not an oath taken by insurance policy salespeoples.

.

The good majority of insurance sales people do what's right for their clients.

Is that satire?

 

[12icer]

Oshitcare is the worst insurance idea on EARTH, it cant be fixed, and was not designed to work. It was designed to take us to this point where there is almost no way to cover the people of this country with ANY type of insurance. Take Met life healthcare insurance, It was backed by a trust fund collected over the years of close to a trillion dollars. oshitcare raided the trust fund, screwed the policyholders and has almost completely drained the trust fund by having the FED hold the interest rates at a rate of NO return. Most insurance companies are funded by bond investment, and stable growth funds. oshitscums entire idea was complete government control of every part of the peoples life by the ruling class socialist scum he loves. The main point of oshitcare being if you have control of all the healthcare you can decide who lives and who dies who is labeled incompetent, and who is released from it, be able to take guns and label those persons who try to purchase guns incompetent ON AND ON AND ON. I think that is okay now that we have control, lets let all the damn liberal shit who started this die, label them as incompetent to vote, buy or own guns or cars, make them attend meetings twice a week to stay out of the asylum. HELL We can do just what the shit wanted to do to us. ALL we have to do is replace some chicken shit republicans with some ass kickers.

 

[Divine Wind]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

1) We all die.
2) There is a difference between choosing not to pay for health insurance and not being able to afford health insurance.
3) Let's just be realistic. Set up death panels which will determine who is worth saving and who is not.. Let's off a bounty to old, sick or retarded people who volunteer for euthanasia by paying their families $100,000.

The distorted definition of death panels is a travesty. Death panels are actually a way for each of us to make our own decisions on end of life healthcare while we are still healthy. Our medical system will keep us alive for as long as possible unless we give instructions not to. You can choose to say how far you want the doctor's to go in life saving care. It can save the individual from suffering and save money at the same time. You still have the option of instructing doctors to do everything they can doe as long as they can.
"Death Panels" provide personal accountability on end of life decisions so others do not have to make the decisions.
Those who are against them are irresponsible.

So you agree people have a right to die? That we all can choose to end our lives and be given, upon request, the means to do so ala' Dr. Kevorkian?

 

[Divine Wind]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

1) We all die.
2) There is a difference between choosing not to pay for health insurance and not being able to afford health insurance.
3) Let's just be realistic. Set up death panels which will determine who is worth saving and who is not.. Let's off a bounty to old, sick or retarded people who volunteer for euthanasia by paying their families $100,000.

The distorted definition of death panels is a travesty. Death panels are actually a way for each of us to make our own decisions on end of life healthcare while we are still healthy. Our medical system will keep us alive for as long as possible unless we give instructions not to. You can choose to say how far you want the doctor's to go in life saving care. It can save the individual from suffering and save money at the same time. You still have the option of instructing doctors to do everything they can doe as long as they can.
"Death Panels" provide personal accountability on end of life decisions so others do not have to make the decisions.
Those who are against them are irresponsible.

Presumably we are talking about the IPAB here, a board of 15 un-elected bureaucrats who will decide the criteria for who gets access to what care, and even who is denied care. The IPAB is not yet in effect, but the ACA has provisions for that to happen. I think that's how many other countries with some form of Single Payer are holding down the costs of health care, or at least one way of doing it. Do we want to go down that road?

We already are on that road since that is exactly what insurance companies do and the law lets them do it.

Many people talk about how life is "precious", but those same people are hypocrites since they have no problem turning a blind eye to killing others or simply letting them die. It's akin to driving past a road accident with many victims bleeding out while driving a truckload of tourniquets, pressure bandages and plasma. I have no problem with that, but let's not bullshit each other that is exactly what we are doing.

Similarly, I have no problem with abortion at 24 weeks or less. People who want to have abortions would make shitty parents and their mistake, if they are not allowed to correct it, would be passed on to the American taxpayers. Better to let them have their abortion (at cost) than to force the American taxpayers to bear the burden of their idiocy.

 

[Divine Wind]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

1) We all die.
2) There is a difference between choosing not to pay for health insurance and not being able to afford health insurance.
3) Let's just be realistic. Set up death panels which will determine who is worth saving and who is not.. Let's off a bounty to old, sick or retarded people who volunteer for euthanasia by paying their families $100,000.

The distorted definition of death panels is a travesty. Death panels are actually a way for each of us to make our own decisions on end of life healthcare while we are still healthy. Our medical system will keep us alive for as long as possible unless we give instructions not to. You can choose to say how far you want the doctor's to go in life saving care. It can save the individual from suffering and save money at the same time. You still have the option of instructing doctors to do everything they can doe as long as they can.
"Death Panels" provide personal accountability on end of life decisions so others do not have to make the decisions.
Those who are against them are irresponsible.

My wife told me if Trump wins again in 2020 to put a pillow over her head and end it for her

Two words: Suicide bomber

Alternatively, there is the ancient Irish custom of a hunger strike:

Brehon Law Academy - Ancient Ireland's Laws and Customs

 

[Divine Wind]

An alternative to active violence is passive resistance.

Brehon Law Academy - Ancient Ireland's Laws and Customs
Fasting for Justice: Hunger Strike in Ancient Ireland

...While an important chapter of modern Irish history the principle of fasting for justice or hunger-striking is not a new one; it was practiced by the early Irish under the Brehon laws.

Writing in 1894 (almost a century before the H-Block Hunger Strike) Lawrence Ginnel said that

“Distress by way of fasting, now so strange to us because so long obsolete, was clearly designed in the interests of honesty and of the poor as against the mighty."

Under the Brehon laws this form of distress was called Troscud which means 'fasting'. It had legal support and sought to empower a weaker party in bringing a stronger party to justice.

It should be said that the act of troscud in early Irish society was not as extreme as modern hunger strikers many of whom fasting until death. With troscud the fast most likely lasted from dawn til dusk meaning that the main meals of the day would be missed.

In early Ireland, the higher-classes were called the nemed or 'privileged' classes. Members of this class possessed a lot more wealth and power as compared to the lower 'base-classes'. This made it difficult for members of those lower classes to get justice where they had been wronged by a member of the higher-classes.

Through the course of time a custom developed in Ireland making troscud a requirement, a necessary legal step that had to be first followed before a member of the nemed classes could be brought to court.

The fast took place outside of the home of the defendant, beginning at sunrise and ending at sunset.

This obligation on the weaker party did not hinder them in achieving justice - the primary aim of troscud was to put pressure on the privileged wrong-doer, morally, legally and financially.

Moral condemnation would follow the nemed defendant who dared to eat while someone was conducting the ancient custom of troscud against them, and, if this wasn't enough, the law held that the initial amount being disputed in the claim would double!

If the nemed defendant still resisted or ignored the call to justice they would themselves lose the protection and benefits of the law.

Troscud could therefore be described as a double-edged sword, on one hand protecting the honour and reputation of the nemed by ensuring an opportunity to deal with the matter privately, on the other it empowers the weaker party into a much stronger position where a) they have the moral support of the community, b) enhances legal power where the status of an individual would otherwise be too low to compel the wrong-doer, c) they stand to gain more financially if the offender fails to co-operate; no doubt an added incentive for the nemed defendant's compliance.

 

[Doc1]

1) We all die.
2) There is a difference between choosing not to pay for health insurance and not being able to afford health insurance.
3) Let's just be realistic. Set up death panels which will determine who is worth saving and who is not.. Let's off a bounty to old, sick or retarded people who volunteer for euthanasia by paying their families $100,000.

The distorted definition of death panels is a travesty. Death panels are actually a way for each of us to make our own decisions on end of life healthcare while we are still healthy. Our medical system will keep us alive for as long as possible unless we give instructions not to. You can choose to say how far you want the doctor's to go in life saving care. It can save the individual from suffering and save money at the same time. You still have the option of instructing doctors to do everything they can doe as long as they can.
"Death Panels" provide personal accountability on end of life decisions so others do not have to make the decisions.
Those who are against them are irresponsible.

My wife told me if Trump wins again in 2020 to put a pillow over her head and end it for her

Trump would like to eliminate everyone who does not support him. One strategy is to make living in a Trump America intolerable.

Prove it. You people are completely unstable.

Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him. Trump has no depth or character and does not judge others on character.

Your main problem is that you don't think that your sides shit doesn't stink. You're playing under a fake set of rules believing that either side cares about you. They don't.

"Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

Let me fix this for you.

"Obama is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

They're ALL like that. I know it hurts, but it's true none the less.

 

[Cellblock2429]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

/---- no one can be turned away from the ER for lack of insurance. Just ask any illegal living here.


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[Doc1]

The point is we all sit here arguing with one another and in reality, no one lets another die, unless of course they murdered them. I don't like obamacare and don't like this piece of shit they have put together. Although I did not like or agree with the individual mandate as an individual I understand why the insurance companies demanded it.
You cannot insure everyone with pre x unless there is a mix of healthy people. If I hadn't have already seen in the past the mismanagement of high risk pools that went down the tubes I might be all for that today, I am not.

We will have to see how this pans out because I cannot see it going anywhere in present form.

Conservatives advocate for personal accountability, which I agree with.
Why would they not be for a mandate that holds people accountable for their healthcare.

Seriously? The thing about freedom is that it isn't always pretty. Where do you draw the line at Governmental Regulation?

The choice is mandate healthcare or do not mandate and let people die who choose not to insure themselves.
I vote for mandate health insurance. We mandate automobile insurance.

And that's fine, but the "mandating" won't stop with Insurance. You need look no further than New York. Taxes on large soft drinks. It's all about control, the more freedom you give up the less freedom you have. The ACA did two things, it centralized power and it transferred wealth (mostly from the middle class) to the lower classes. It did nothing to change the way health care for the poor was paid for. We're still paying for it.

 

[Cellblock2429]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

Are you talking about the people with jobs who couldn't afford that Obamacare BS?

Do you know why they couldn't?

Its damn simple. Just like "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", the people you voted for made sure the average people could not afford ObamaCares.

There's a reason why people think you're an idiot, Luddly. I'm sure that's something you're comfortable with.

Isn't it your kind who yelled out "let him die" when Ron Paul was asked about a coma patient?

/---- You're thinking of Obama who, in 2008, told a woman her elderly mother should not get a pacemaker. They should just give her a pill and send her home.


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[Divine Wind]

When someone chooses not to buy health insurance and they do not have money to pay for doctor and/or hospital what do we do. Should we refuse service? Should we let them die? It is their choice to not have Insurance.
Do we provide service and let the government pay for what they cannot pay. The government is us. Why should we pay for someone who chose not to spend their money on insurance?

The responsible end up paying for the irresponsible.

/---- no one can be turned away from the ER for lack of insurance. Just ask any illegal living here.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Yes, they can. ER's won't turn away life-threatening emergencies, but if it's erroneous to think they're a free clinic that treats paper cuts and head colds. At most, a public hospital will give them a band-aid or some aspirin and send them on their way. Sure, it's still an expense, but it's not like they are put in a private room with 3 meals a day until healed.

Can Hospitals Turn Away Patients?

 

[eddiew]

The distorted definition of death panels is a travesty. Death panels are actually a way for each of us to make our own decisions on end of life healthcare while we are still healthy. Our medical system will keep us alive for as long as possible unless we give instructions not to. You can choose to say how far you want the doctor's to go in life saving care. It can save the individual from suffering and save money at the same time. You still have the option of instructing doctors to do everything they can doe as long as they can.
"Death Panels" provide personal accountability on end of life decisions so others do not have to make the decisions.
Those who are against them are irresponsible.

My wife told me if Trump wins again in 2020 to put a pillow over her head and end it for her

Trump would like to eliminate everyone who does not support him. One strategy is to make living in a Trump America intolerable.

Prove it. You people are completely unstable.

Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him. Trump has no depth or character and does not judge others on character.

Your main problem is that you don't think that your sides shit doesn't stink. You're playing under a fake set of rules believing that either side cares about you. They don't.

"Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

Let me fix this for you.

"Obama is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

They're ALL like that. I know it hurts, but it's true none the less.

Doc much of what you say I can agree with BUT NEVER have I seen 2 people more opposite than obama and trump,,,,,and I mean that in a bad way for trump

 

[eddiew]

My wife told me if Trump wins again in 2020 to put a pillow over her head and end it for her

Trump would like to eliminate everyone who does not support him. One strategy is to make living in a Trump America intolerable.

Prove it. You people are completely unstable.

Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him. Trump has no depth or character and does not judge others on character.

Your main problem is that you don't think that your sides shit doesn't stink. You're playing under a fake set of rules believing that either side cares about you. They don't.

"Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

Let me fix this for you.

"Obama is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

They're ALL like that. I know it hurts, but it's true none the less.

Doc much of what you say I can agree with BUT NEVER have I seen 2 people more opposite than obama and trump,,,,,and I mean that in a bad way for trump

Obama ,calm cool collected Trump complete opposite and a sexual pervert added and while untruths are told by all Trump has taken lying to the nth degree

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Those supporting the new healthcare bill have to ask; do we let them die?
I do not support the bill.

Can someone who does support the bill answer the question about letting those die who do not have insurance.

It is not only if they don't have insurance, but as "what kind of life are they going to have". This is if you are young and will have trouble living by yourself. Under OBs care a committee would make the decision, under the next health care law the matter is unk. One case I have heard of is a 73 year old man had a anuerisom (spelling unk) and the Doctors told him the chance was high he would die from the operation. I can not understand why not do the operation, Look the guy is going to die anyhow right? Now during the operation, or later on. Died 45 days later. The other guy is knew that had the same condition went overseas and is still living and pissing off his kids and wife. LOL

 

[Dan Stubbs]

My wife told me if Trump wins again in 2020 to put a pillow over her head and end it for her

Trump would like to eliminate everyone who does not support him. One strategy is to make living in a Trump America intolerable.

Prove it. You people are completely unstable.

Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him. Trump has no depth or character and does not judge others on character.

Your main problem is that you don't think that your sides shit doesn't stink. You're playing under a fake set of rules believing that either side cares about you. They don't.

"Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

Let me fix this for you.

"Obama is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

They're ALL like that. I know it hurts, but it's true none the less.

Doc much of what you say I can agree with BUT NEVER have I seen 2 people more opposite than obama and trump,,,,,and I mean that in a bad way for trump

You have remember trolls come in all colors and sizes.

 

[Rustic]

Trump would like to eliminate everyone who does not support him. One strategy is to make living in a Trump America intolerable.

Prove it. You people are completely unstable.

Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him. Trump has no depth or character and does not judge others on character.

Your main problem is that you don't think that your sides shit doesn't stink. You're playing under a fake set of rules believing that either side cares about you. They don't.

"Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

Let me fix this for you.

"Obama is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

They're ALL like that. I know it hurts, but it's true none the less.

Doc much of what you say I can agree with BUT NEVER have I seen 2 people more opposite than obama and trump,,,,,and I mean that in a bad way for trump

Obama ,calm cool collected Trump complete opposite and a sexual pervert added and while untruths are told by all Trump has taken lying to the nth degree

Trump is full of flaws, but Obama is an absolute control freak and hate filled… Fact

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Those supporting the new healthcare bill have to ask; do we let them die?
I do not support the bill.

Can someone who does support the bill answer the question about letting those die who do not have insurance.

Isn't there a law that says you are supposed to be treated at an ER for life threatening situations? Do we not have clinics that treat patients that can't pay? I thought St Judes does that, and don't organizations like the Shriners do the same thing? Your premise is BS Elmer.

The Trolls have had a bumper crop this month....so it seems.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Prove it. You people are completely unstable.

Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him. Trump has no depth or character and does not judge others on character.

Your main problem is that you don't think that your sides shit doesn't stink. You're playing under a fake set of rules believing that either side cares about you. They don't.

"Let's start with Comey as proof Trump wants to get rid of those who do not support him. Trump is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

Let me fix this for you.

"Obama is a shallow, ego-centric son of a bitch who likes people who like him and does not like people who do not like him."

They're ALL like that. I know it hurts, but it's true none the less.

Doc much of what you say I can agree with BUT NEVER have I seen 2 people more opposite than obama and trump,,,,,and I mean that in a bad way for trump

Obama ,calm cool collected Trump complete opposite and a sexual pervert added and while untruths are told by all Trump has taken lying to the nth degree

Trump is full of flaws, but Obama is an absolute control freak and hate filled… Fact

The boy hates anything white you know the new color of hate.