Do we need more laws, or just better enforcement?

[OKTexas]

Weapons Prosecutions Decline To Lowest Level in a Decade

"The latest available data from the Justice Department show that during January 2011 the government reported 484 new weapons prosecutions. This is the lowest level to which federal weapons prosecutions have fallen since January 2001, when they were 445 at the time President George W. Bush assumed office. The comparisons of the number of defendants charged with weapons-related offenses are based on case-by-case information obtained by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) under the Freedom of Information Act from the Executive Office for United States Attorneys (see Table 1).

When monthly 2011 prosecutions of this type are compared with those of the same period in the previous year, the number of filings was down 7.9 percent, and down 28.8 percent from levels reported in 2006."

It seem that the districts with the largest cities have the lowest number of prosecutions, does that make sense?

"None of the districts with the largest cities in the country make the top 10. In contrast, those districts ranking in the bottom tier contain a number of large metropolitan areas. These include the Northern District of Illinois (Chicago) ranked 80th, the Central District of California (Los Angeles) ranked 83rd, the Northern District of Georgia (Atlanta) ranked 85th, Massachusetts (Boston) ranked 86th, and the Northern District of California (San Francisco) ranked 87th."

http://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/249/

Your thoughts?

 

[Lakhota]

Both. I invite you to read my signature links.

 

[OKTexas]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

 

[Lakhota]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

Open minds will prevail in the end.

 

[tooAlive]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

That's exactly what a study of gun politics in Australia showed. When stricter gun laws were imposed, suicide rates using guns declined. But they also proportionately rised using other methods.

Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some researchers have found a significant change in the rate of firearm suicides after the legislative changes. For example, Ozanne-Smith et al. (2004)[31] in the journal Injury Prevention found a reduction in firearm suicides in Victoria, however this study did not consider non-firearm suicide rates. Others have argued that alternative methods of suicide have been substituted. De Leo, Dwyer, Firman & Neulinger,[32] studied suicide methods in men from 1979 to 1998 and found a rise in hanging suicides that started slightly before the fall in gun suicides. As hanging suicides rose at about the same rate as gun suicides fell, it is possible that there was some substitution of suicide methods. It has been noted that drawing strong conclusions about possible impacts of gun laws on suicides is challenging, because a number of suicide prevention programs were implemented from the mid-1990s onwards, and non-firearm suicides also began falling

If you read that study, you'll also find that even though Australia has very strict gun laws, experts have confirmed that the strict laws have not been responsible for the lower crime rates.

 

[OKTexas]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

Open minds will prevail in the end.

Still can't find it in yourself to address the subject of the thread I see. Just a reminder, that would be the feds reduced enforcement of existing laws.

 

[OKTexas]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

That's exactly what a study of gun politics in Australia showed. When stricter gun laws were imposed, suicide rates using guns declined. But they also proportionately rised using other methods.

Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some researchers have found a significant change in the rate of firearm suicides after the legislative changes. For example, Ozanne-Smith et al. (2004)[31] in the journal Injury Prevention found a reduction in firearm suicides in Victoria, however this study did not consider non-firearm suicide rates. Others have argued that alternative methods of suicide have been substituted. De Leo, Dwyer, Firman & Neulinger,[32] studied suicide methods in men from 1979 to 1998 and found a rise in hanging suicides that started slightly before the fall in gun suicides. As hanging suicides rose at about the same rate as gun suicides fell, it is possible that there was some substitution of suicide methods. It has been noted that drawing strong conclusions about possible impacts of gun laws on suicides is challenging, because a number of suicide prevention programs were implemented from the mid-1990s onwards, and non-firearm suicides also began falling

If you read that study, you'll also find that even though Australia has very strict gun laws, experts have confirmed that the strict laws have not been responsible for the lower crime rates.

You only have to look at Japan to know the availability of firearms has virtually no effect on the suicide rate.

 

[Rozman]

Case in point.My Governor,Cuomo wanted to be the first kid on the block to use
the tragedy of Sandy Hook to get some legislation out there to make him look tough
on guns.Ran out a bill that forces gun owners to only use guns with a maximum
count of 7 rounds per clip.

Only problem with this is that the manufactures don't make a clip that holds 7.

OOOOooops!

 

[Black_Label]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

AKA butthurt because you can't handle the truth.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

AKA butthurt because you can't handle the truth.

And i'm quite sure you can provide the facts, along with credible links, to prove him wrong, correct?

Or are you just talking out of your boney ass, yet agan, slapdick?

 

[Skull Pilot]

We need to get rid of all outdated laws first then reevaluate.

Most people commit 3 felonies a day and don't even realize it. That fact alone tells me we have too many stupid laws on the books.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229#reader_1594035229]Amazon.com: Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent (9781594035227): Harvey Silverglate: Books[/ame]

 

[editec]

We're focusing on the wrong things if we are hoping to reduce gun violence.

We're focusing on the gun when we ought to be focusing on the violence.

But if you think that gun control is going to make waves, imagine writing laws that prevent those who are not suited to gun ownership from having them.

What that would require is that we psychologically test gun owners.

Two problems

1. We don't have a true test that would tell us who is dangerous, but even if we did?;

2. We'd discover that a whole lot of people -- people without criminal or psychiatric histories of violence -- ought NOT be allowed to own guns.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We're focusing on the wrong things if we are hoping to reduce gun violence.

We're focusing on the gun when we ought to be focusing on the violence.

But if you think that gun control is going to make waves, imagine trying to write laws that prevent those who are not suited to gun ownership from having them.

What that would require is that we psychologically test gun owners.

Two problems

1. We don't have a true test that would tell us who is dangerous, but even if we did?;

2. We'd discover that a whole lot of people -- people without criminal or psychiatric histories of violence -- ought NOT be allowed to own guns.

Anyone convicted of a gun crime should get life in prison without parole.

Let's see how fast that works.

 

[editec]

We're focusing on the wrong things if we are hoping to reduce gun violence.

We're focusing on the gun when we ought to be focusing on the violence.

But if you think that gun control is going to make waves, imagine trying to write laws that prevent those who are not suited to gun ownership from having them.

What that would require is that we psychologically test gun owners.

Two problems

1. We don't have a true test that would tell us who is dangerous, but even if we did?;

2. We'd discover that a whole lot of people -- people without criminal or psychiatric histories of violence -- ought NOT be allowed to own guns.

Anyone convicted of a gun crime should get life in prison without parole.

Let's see how fast that works.

Well that certainly would swell the population in prison fast enough.

But it seems to me that in most cases of SPREE KILLING, the perps seldom have any history of using a gun illegally UNTIL they go nuts.

So that law, probably wouldn't help much as it related to spree killings like the 30+ school shootings that have happened in our lifetimes..

 

[chikenwing]

We're focusing on the wrong things if we are hoping to reduce gun violence.

We're focusing on the gun when we ought to be focusing on the violence.

But if you think that gun control is going to make waves, imagine writing laws that prevent those who are not suited to gun ownership from having them.

What that would require is that we psychologically test gun owners.

Two problems

1. We don't have a true test that would tell us who is dangerous, but even if we did?;

2. We'd discover that a whole lot of people -- people without criminal or psychiatric histories of violence -- ought NOT be allowed to own guns.

True statements.

You did a good job of outlining the potential for abuse of our liberties through bad legislation.

 

[jon_berzerk]

We're focusing on the wrong things if we are hoping to reduce gun violence.

We're focusing on the gun when we ought to be focusing on the violence.

But if you think that gun control is going to make waves, imagine trying to write laws that prevent those who are not suited to gun ownership from having them.

What that would require is that we psychologically test gun owners.

Two problems

1. We don't have a true test that would tell us who is dangerous, but even if we did?;

2. We'd discover that a whole lot of people -- people without criminal or psychiatric histories of violence -- ought NOT be allowed to own guns.

Anyone convicted of a gun crime should get life in prison without parole.

Let's see how fast that works.

Well that certainly would swell the population in prison fast enough.

But it seems to me that in most cases of SPREE KILLING, the perps seldom have any history of using a gun illegally UNTIL they go nuts.

So that law, probably wouldn't help much as it related to spree killings like the 30+ school shootings that have happened in our lifetimes..

probably

since most of the spree shooters

end up dead

at their own hands long before help arrives

and after they decided to stop the killings

 

[uscitizen]

We could privatize more enforcement.
Such as getting ON Star to issue speeding tickets since they can tell if you are speeding.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We're focusing on the wrong things if we are hoping to reduce gun violence.

We're focusing on the gun when we ought to be focusing on the violence.

But if you think that gun control is going to make waves, imagine trying to write laws that prevent those who are not suited to gun ownership from having them.

What that would require is that we psychologically test gun owners.

Two problems

1. We don't have a true test that would tell us who is dangerous, but even if we did?;

2. We'd discover that a whole lot of people -- people without criminal or psychiatric histories of violence -- ought NOT be allowed to own guns.

Anyone convicted of a gun crime should get life in prison without parole.

Let's see how fast that works.

Well that certainly would swell the population in prison fast enough.

But it seems to me that in most cases of SPREE KILLING, the perps seldom have any history of using a gun illegally UNTIL they go nuts.

So that law, probably wouldn't help much as it related to spree killings like the 30+ school shootings that have happened in our lifetimes..

Random acts of violence are by definition nearly impossible to predict and therefore prevent.

Serial killers kill many people before they are caught but we don't seem to be all hopped up about preventing those types of murders. Random mass shootings are no different.

 

[OKTexas]

Both. I invite you to read my signature link.

Your link is BS. I say this because any article that includes suicides in preventable gun deaths is exactly that BS. If some one want to end their own life they will find a way to do it and including those numbers as though if guns were not available those people would not have died is a lie. We all know why they have to resort to this is because suicides account for more than half the gun deaths in this country and without including them the problem is much smaller than they pretend. You can try to keep perpetuating the lie, but expect to be called on it.

AKA butthurt because you can't handle the truth.

Has nothing to do with the current topic.

 

[boedicca]

We need fewer laws - for the ones we do have to be very specific regarding enforcement criteria and any regulatory aspects.

What we have now is a system where everyone is a criminal due to the complexity and arbitrary nature of many laws and regs.