Does anyone care we won the war in IRAQ?

[Nic_Driver]

play along?

I personally saw us as having a fair debate where we disagreed. I have not spun anything and I have explained why I felt what i felt. I did not just make blanket statements...I backed them up with why I believed what I beleived.

However, you then said that Bush did not have congressional approval. Now that is either an outright lie which is useless for a fair debate...or you are naive and not qualified to engage in this type of debate.

As for the facts presented to congress...it is up to congress to determine if the facts are true for they are the ones burdened with making the decision.

Sure, when things started to go bad, some jumped ship and started to say they were lied to. But if you recall, that was a pattern. They were lied to by the Presidnet regarding intel...but had nothing to back it up. Then they were lied to by the CIA regarding waterboarding..and again had nothing to back it up.

So you see.....you have allowed your political leaning to believe those who claim they allowed the wrong thing to be done becuase they were working with lies...and I am allowing my political leaning allow me to believe the ones who say otherwise.

But now here is the difference.....

The ones who claim they were lied to are paid great salaries and benefits to make sure they have accurate information before they make a decision. The President, on the other hand is not allowed to make any decision unless he has approval from congress (except for executive orders).

So they can say whatever they wasnt as their reason for making the wrong decision...but the bottom line is they did not do their due diligence....

And your political leaning has allowed you to give them a free pass...even though they dropped the ball.

Although...I dont see that they dropped the ball. I believe the action was warranted...and they were political ship jumpers becuase they didnt know how to explain why they were first for the war and then against the war.

I consider them cowards...my opinion.

I guess what bothers me the most is Bush gave the order to invade, no one else did or could have. He bears the responsibility for the deaths of American service men and women and should have followed established protocol by following the UN Resolutions regarding this matter.

It wasn't the fault of any Democrat or Independent or Republican, just Bush and he now has blood on his hands and is a wanted war criminal in parts of the world.

I respect your sentiment. If I bleived what you believe, I would be dammed angry as well. Not saying what you believe is wrong......but it is not what I believe.

But that is where we are different.

I do not blame Obama for the lack of success with the stimulus. I blame congress. He just signed the dam bill. It was congress that should have done their due diliogence and ensure the jobs were shovel ready...and ensure the economy was where they thought it was......they are the ones with the "staffers" and "budgets" and "committees".

To me the President is a figurehead. Yes, he is the CiC...but he has his JCoS to oversee all military activities.

But that is where we are different.

Another way we are different is I don't compare apples to oranges.

There are a great many things about the Obama presidency to which I object but his administration is completely separate from the invasion of Iraq and the stimulus is not comparable to the invasion of Iraq, even in the smallest regard.

That type of argument is called "obfuscation" and with its use there is an attempt to cloud the issue at hand with a non-related issue.

Bush DID order the invasion of Iraq, consequently he bears responsibility for it and the lies that ‘justified’ it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of all the accusations that have been made, not one person has shown anyone any evidence to back up those accusations
more go on the ignore list
why do you keep lying about this?
what are you people so scared of the truth for?

Everything you keep repeating was all debunked and proven false in your previous 4 or 5 threads on the same subject.

That's why you keep running off and starting a new thread. It's fucking childish. Grow up.

 

[JRK]

the thread was simple
give the side that never got told
I did that
some have not liked it
the stimulsu was a waste, but it was what the leadership in this country thought was the right thing to do
with that said this thread has run its course
those who will neer agree with our successfull mission in Iraq will stay that way
god bless all

 

[Nic_Driver]

the thread was simple
give the side that never got told
I did that
some have not liked it
the stimulsu was a waste, but it was what the leadership in this country thought was the right thing to do
with that said this thread has run its course
those who will neer agree with our successfull mission in Iraq will stay that way
god bless all

Oh, and JRK is a douche.

God bless all.

 

[JRK]

the thread was simple
give the side that never got told
I did that
some have not liked it
the stimulsu was a waste, but it was what the leadership in this country thought was the right thing to do
with that said this thread has run its course
those who will neer agree with our successfull mission in Iraq will stay that way
god bless all

Oh, and JRK is a douche.

God bless all.

You are a very troubled human being
I will pray for you
Remember to thank those who gave there life so you could use that freedom to call me what you did
Goodbye little man

 

[editec]

We won?

What did we win?

I'm gonna keep asking until somebody answers.

I think we won nothing.

Show me what the American people actually won.

 

[JRK]

We won?

What did we win?

I'm gonna keep asking until somebody answers.

I think we won nothing.

Show me what the American people actually won.

We no longer have military bases in Saudi Arabia

It is un known how many bases we closed in Kuwait, you can Google it. I think there was maybe 20-30 we no longer fund/operate

Funding for the UN has went way down

Saddam and his intentions are no longer a concern. The weapons he had for the most part (according to UN and Iraq documents) have no been found. Saddam will never use them
many Al Qaeda soldiers are dead as well as some of there hi ranking leader ship (who do you think we were fighting after 5/2003, the Iraqis?)

 

[NYcarbineer]

We won?

What did we win?

I'm gonna keep asking until somebody answers.

I think we won nothing.

Show me what the American people actually won.

We no longer have military bases in Saudi Arabia

It is un known how many bases we closed in Kuwait, you can Google it. I think there was maybe 20-30 we no longer fund/operate

Funding for the UN has went way down

Saddam and his intentions are no longer a concern. The weapons he had for the most part (according to UN and Iraq documents) have no been found. Saddam will never use them
many Al Qaeda soldiers are dead as well as some of there hi ranking leader ship (who do you think we were fighting after 5/2003, the Iraqis?)

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

 

[JRK]

We won?

What did we win?

I'm gonna keep asking until somebody answers.

I think we won nothing.

Show me what the American people actually won.

We no longer have military bases in Saudi Arabia

It is un known how many bases we closed in Kuwait, you can Google it. I think there was maybe 20-30 we no longer fund/operate

Funding for the UN has went way down

Saddam and his intentions are no longer a concern. The weapons he had for the most part (according to UN and Iraq documents) have no been found. Saddam will never use them
many Al Qaeda soldiers are dead as well as some of there hi ranking leader ship (who do you think we were fighting after 5/2003, the Iraqis?)

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

The actual number of scientist that were involved in that program are un-known Saddam had ordered the killing of any that talked
You can goggle to get started Saddam given two weeks to name scientist
but you know that

 

[Jarhead]

We won?

What did we win?

I'm gonna keep asking until somebody answers.

I think we won nothing.

Show me what the American people actually won.

We no longer have military bases in Saudi Arabia

It is un known how many bases we closed in Kuwait, you can Google it. I think there was maybe 20-30 we no longer fund/operate

Funding for the UN has went way down

Saddam and his intentions are no longer a concern. The weapons he had for the most part (according to UN and Iraq documents) have no been found. Saddam will never use them
many Al Qaeda soldiers are dead as well as some of there hi ranking leader ship (who do you think we were fighting after 5/2003, the Iraqis?)

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

you know...you are right.

I cant imagine why those people would not come out in the open and admit that they were responsible for the deaths of thousands of their own country men and women once their protection was eliminnated.

It just doesnt make sense.

 

[editec]

We won?

What did we win?

I'm gonna keep asking until somebody answers.

I think we won nothing.

Show me what the American people actually won.

We no longer have military bases in Saudi Arabia

And what does the Iraqi war have to do with that?

Nothing. We left SA because of internal SA politics

It is un known how many bases we closed in Kuwait, you can Google it. I think there was maybe 20-30 we no longer fund/operate

So we WON Kuwait?

Cool where's MY oil well?

Funding for the UN has went way down

Because of the war? You'll have to explain how that worked.

Saddam and his intentions are no longer a concern. The weapons he had for the most part (according to UN and Iraq documents) have no been found. Saddam will never use them

Was Saddam ever a concern to the USA or merely a concern to the oil companies that exist in the ME

many Al Qaeda soldiers are dead as well as some of there hi ranking leader ship (who do you think we were fighting after 5/2003, the Iraqis?)

Weird that all those AlQaeda folks were even in Saddams Irq, given that he hated them and they hated him.

I think you've been misinformed, amigo.

 

[JWBooth]

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

Good point. A question for which there is no answer.

 

[JWBooth]

We no longer have military bases in Saudi Arabia

It is un known how many bases we closed in Kuwait, you can Google it. I think there was maybe 20-30 we no longer fund/operate

Funding for the UN has went way down

Saddam and his intentions are no longer a concern. The weapons he had for the most part (according to UN and Iraq documents) have no been found. Saddam will never use them
many Al Qaeda soldiers are dead as well as some of there hi ranking leader ship (who do you think we were fighting after 5/2003, the Iraqis?)

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

The actual number of scientist that were involved in that program are un-known Saddam had ordered the killing of any that talked
You can goggle to get started Saddam given two weeks to name scientist
but you know that

He's been dead for a while, out of power for even longer. Yet these folks still fear his retaliation? Load of crap. Cant produce these support personnel because there was nothing to support.
But deep down, you know that.

 

[Jarhead]

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

The actual number of scientist that were involved in that program are un-known Saddam had ordered the killing of any that talked
You can goggle to get started Saddam given two weeks to name scientist
but you know that

He's been dead for a while, out of power for even longer. Yet these folks still fear his retaliation? Load of crap. Cant produce these support personnel because there was nothing to support.
But deep down, you know that.

Exccuse me...but they never feared his retaliation. He was their protection.

They feared the retasliation of their own countrymen and women.

Bear in mind, those people were responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of their own countrymen, women and children....once their protection was gone, why would they want to admit that they killed so many of their own citizens?

 

[JRK]

Let me ask you something.

IF Saddam had WMD's, why did we never find the thousands of personnel that would have been required to develop, build, operate, and maintain multiple WMD programs?

The actual number of scientist that were involved in that program are un-known Saddam had ordered the killing of any that talked
You can goggle to get started Saddam given two weeks to name scientist
but you know that

He's been dead for a while, out of power for even longer. Yet these folks still fear his retaliation? Load of crap. Cant produce these support personnel because there was nothing to support.
But deep down, you know that.

Why have you on the left gone from the res?
Everyone knew Saddam had them and in 2003 he said he would kill anyone who discussed the issue
By the way
there has been people come forward and stated they were moved, they were ignored and ridiculed
Proof of WMD in Iraq – Iraqi Documents Translated « Liberty Rocks
Document: Iraqi Dissident Talks About WMD Moved to Syria (Translation)
Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says - January 26, 2006 - The New York Sun

with people like you screaming there liars all day every day while those brave kids were winning the war
what do you expect dude?
now go ahead and launch another personal attack

 

[Wry Catcher]

4,500 American dead, ten times that number wounded, many for life; trillions of dollars and counting spent and our economy in shambles, and we won? Only if one considers a pyrrhic victory a win.

 

[JRK]

Guys I have no idea what your trying to do here
it become a joke
Wry how many more times are you going to spam that?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Guys I have no idea what your trying to do here
it become a joke
Wry how many more times are you going to spam that?

I don't consider it spam. Can you dispute anything I wrote? Do you know what a Pyrrhic victory is?

My 'spam' is a counterpoint to your absurd conclusion that something beneficial to our nation is the result of our armed forces attacking and occupying a sovereign nation, and action taken by choice not need.

You agree with the decision, apparently. Do you also agree we should invade and occupy North Korea? If not, why not?

I remember what happened to Pueblo and her crew. I was on active duty on a DD in the Pacific when that happened. That was provocation, that was an act of war and many of us thought at the time we should have declared war. Nothing Iraq did to us was as provocative, nothing Iraq did was an overt act of war.

4,500 dead. I can walk along to Vietnam Memorial in DC and read the names of those I went to school with & some I served with - one from my boot camp company. 4,500 maybe only a number to you, I see faces.

 

[Jarhead]

Guys I have no idea what your trying to do here
it become a joke
Wry how many more times are you going to spam that?

I don't consider it spam. Can you dispute anything I wrote? Do you know what a Pyrrhic victory is?

My 'spam' is a counterpoint to your absurd conclusion that something beneficial to our nation is the result of our armed forces attacking and occupying a sovereign nation, and action taken by choice not need.

You agree with the decision, apparently. Do you also agree we should invade and occupy North Korea? If not, why not?

I remember what happened to Pueblo and her crew. I was on active duty on a DD in the Pacific when that happened. That was provocation, that was an act of war and many of us thought at the time we should have declared war. Nothing Iraq did to us was as provocative, nothing Iraq did was an overt act of war.

4,500 dead. I can walk along to Vietnam Memorial in DC and read the names of those I went to school with & some I served with - one from my boot camp company. 4,500 maybe only a number to you, I see faces.

Is North Korea in breach of a treaty initiated by the US?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Guys I have no idea what your trying to do here
it become a joke
Wry how many more times are you going to spam that?

I don't consider it spam. Can you dispute anything I wrote? Do you know what a Pyrrhic victory is?

My 'spam' is a counterpoint to your absurd conclusion that something beneficial to our nation is the result of our armed forces attacking and occupying a sovereign nation, and action taken by choice not need.

You agree with the decision, apparently. Do you also agree we should invade and occupy North Korea? If not, why not?

I remember what happened to Pueblo and her crew. I was on active duty on a DD in the Pacific when that happened. That was provocation, that was an act of war and many of us thought at the time we should have declared war. Nothing Iraq did to us was as provocative, nothing Iraq did was an overt act of war.

4,500 dead. I can walk along to Vietnam Memorial in DC and read the names of those I went to school with & some I served with - one from my boot camp company. 4,500 maybe only a number to you, I see faces.

Is North Korea in breach of a treaty initiated by the US?

Nope. At least not to my knowledge. My point, which I believe is obvious, is that NK has WMD's, we only suspected Iraq had and was building WMD's. Breach of a treaty is not justification for war.