Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

[Scamp]

The police are scared to death. They know they can be killed any day at work. They are trained to shoot anyone who poses an imminent deadly threat to them.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Violent Crime: The US and Abroad - Criminal Justice Degree Hub

The US as a whole is as safe as most modern industrialized nations.

Shouldn't we be much safer since we have by far the most guns?

No.

The point is we are just as safe while allowing citizens to have the right to be armed if they so choose.
Our 2nd amendment right makes us no less safe as you say it does.

I for one never said more guns equal less crime because in all honesty I don't care if citizens being armed reduces or increases the crime rate.

I say this because I know that I am not responsible for the actions of others. I have been shooting since I was 8, got my first .22 rifle at 16 have had my CCW permit for 27 years and have never once committed a crime with a gun, have never once accidentally discharged a gun, have never once even pointed a gun in the general direction of another person. I am more exemplary of the average gun owner than you seem to believe.

That is fair. Can I assume you've never needed a gun for defense?

Same question for you:
What are your thoughts on how often our police are shot and killed? How often they shoot and kill people? We stand out in the world in the regards.

No, luckily I have not ever had to use a gun in self defense. But then again I've never used home owners insurance either but I still keep it.
There is real violence in this world and I count myself lucky as to have not been a victim of violent crime as of this point in my life but I am not naive enough to think it will never happen.

And I really don't care how many people are shot by cops. IMO if you are not complying with a cop no matter if you're innocent or not then you run the risk of getting shot.

I have been stopped for minor things like a burned out tail light and I always always always do whatever the officer tells me to do. I even go so far as to keep my registration clipped to my visor so I don't have to rummage around in the glove box for it. I keep both my drivers' license and my CCW permit in my front shirt pocket so I don't have to reach behind my back to get them out of a wallet.

My thoughts on the matter are that if you get shot by a cop you were doing something to deserve it.

Cops getting shot is part of the job.

While I believe that to be the case in the majority of instances, there certainly are many mistakes also:
New Details Surface In Minnesota Officer-Involved Shooting Of Australian Woman

This guy would have been better off not carrying:
'Concealed carrier's worst nightmare': Officer acquitted in death of Philando Castile

Possibly getting shot is part of the job, but it doesn't need to be so bad:

In 2015, the year for which the most recent French government data are available, six police officers were killed in the line of duty, according to an October 2016 report by the National Institute of Higher Studies of Security and Justice. In 2014, 11 officers were killed, and the total for the year before that was 10. The numbers dating to 2010 are slightly lower


.French police are targeted but rarely killed

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

 

[Brain357]

Shouldn't we be much safer since we have by far the most guns?

No.

The point is we are just as safe while allowing citizens to have the right to be armed if they so choose.
Our 2nd amendment right makes us no less safe as you say it does.

I for one never said more guns equal less crime because in all honesty I don't care if citizens being armed reduces or increases the crime rate.

I say this because I know that I am not responsible for the actions of others. I have been shooting since I was 8, got my first .22 rifle at 16 have had my CCW permit for 27 years and have never once committed a crime with a gun, have never once accidentally discharged a gun, have never once even pointed a gun in the general direction of another person. I am more exemplary of the average gun owner than you seem to believe.

That is fair. Can I assume you've never needed a gun for defense?

Same question for you:
What are your thoughts on how often our police are shot and killed? How often they shoot and kill people? We stand out in the world in the regards.

No, luckily I have not ever had to use a gun in self defense. But then again I've never used home owners insurance either but I still keep it.
There is real violence in this world and I count myself lucky as to have not been a victim of violent crime as of this point in my life but I am not naive enough to think it will never happen.

And I really don't care how many people are shot by cops. IMO if you are not complying with a cop no matter if you're innocent or not then you run the risk of getting shot.

I have been stopped for minor things like a burned out tail light and I always always always do whatever the officer tells me to do. I even go so far as to keep my registration clipped to my visor so I don't have to rummage around in the glove box for it. I keep both my drivers' license and my CCW permit in my front shirt pocket so I don't have to reach behind my back to get them out of a wallet.

My thoughts on the matter are that if you get shot by a cop you were doing something to deserve it.

Cops getting shot is part of the job.

While I believe that to be the case in the majority of instances, there certainly are many mistakes also:
New Details Surface In Minnesota Officer-Involved Shooting Of Australian Woman

This guy would have been better off not carrying:
'Concealed carrier's worst nightmare': Officer acquitted in death of Philando Castile

Possibly getting shot is part of the job, but it doesn't need to be so bad:

In 2015, the year for which the most recent French government data are available, six police officers were killed in the line of duty, according to an October 2016 report by the National Institute of Higher Studies of Security and Justice. In 2014, 11 officers were killed, and the total for the year before that was 10. The numbers dating to 2010 are slightly lower


.French police are targeted but rarely killed

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

It certainly is a lot compared to other civilized countries. See France.

 

[Brain357]

And here is a comparison of how many people our police kill:
According to the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings, 990 people were killed in 2015. In Germany, ten people were killed by police last year, according to a report on Thursday by publishing group Funke Mediengruppe, citing figures from the German Police University.

That means that while the population of the US is roughly four times that of Germany, the number of fatal police shootings there is about 100 times greater.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

 

[Skull Pilot]

No.

The point is we are just as safe while allowing citizens to have the right to be armed if they so choose.
Our 2nd amendment right makes us no less safe as you say it does.

I for one never said more guns equal less crime because in all honesty I don't care if citizens being armed reduces or increases the crime rate.

I say this because I know that I am not responsible for the actions of others. I have been shooting since I was 8, got my first .22 rifle at 16 have had my CCW permit for 27 years and have never once committed a crime with a gun, have never once accidentally discharged a gun, have never once even pointed a gun in the general direction of another person. I am more exemplary of the average gun owner than you seem to believe.

That is fair. Can I assume you've never needed a gun for defense?

Same question for you:
What are your thoughts on how often our police are shot and killed? How often they shoot and kill people? We stand out in the world in the regards.

No, luckily I have not ever had to use a gun in self defense. But then again I've never used home owners insurance either but I still keep it.
There is real violence in this world and I count myself lucky as to have not been a victim of violent crime as of this point in my life but I am not naive enough to think it will never happen.

And I really don't care how many people are shot by cops. IMO if you are not complying with a cop no matter if you're innocent or not then you run the risk of getting shot.

I have been stopped for minor things like a burned out tail light and I always always always do whatever the officer tells me to do. I even go so far as to keep my registration clipped to my visor so I don't have to rummage around in the glove box for it. I keep both my drivers' license and my CCW permit in my front shirt pocket so I don't have to reach behind my back to get them out of a wallet.

My thoughts on the matter are that if you get shot by a cop you were doing something to deserve it.

Cops getting shot is part of the job.

While I believe that to be the case in the majority of instances, there certainly are many mistakes also:
New Details Surface In Minnesota Officer-Involved Shooting Of Australian Woman

This guy would have been better off not carrying:
'Concealed carrier's worst nightmare': Officer acquitted in death of Philando Castile

Possibly getting shot is part of the job, but it doesn't need to be so bad:

In 2015, the year for which the most recent French government data are available, six police officers were killed in the line of duty, according to an October 2016 report by the National Institute of Higher Studies of Security and Justice. In 2014, 11 officers were killed, and the total for the year before that was 10. The numbers dating to 2010 are slightly lower


.French police are targeted but rarely killed

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

It certainly is a lot compared to other civilized countries. See France.

63 officers out of 1.8 million is not a lot. That's .0036% of cops. Even if France is 0% the difference is insignificant

And I don't know about you but I don't care about France or any other country. I don't want to live in any of those countries.

 

[Brain357]

That is fair. Can I assume you've never needed a gun for defense?

Same question for you:
What are your thoughts on how often our police are shot and killed? How often they shoot and kill people? We stand out in the world in the regards.

No, luckily I have not ever had to use a gun in self defense. But then again I've never used home owners insurance either but I still keep it.
There is real violence in this world and I count myself lucky as to have not been a victim of violent crime as of this point in my life but I am not naive enough to think it will never happen.

And I really don't care how many people are shot by cops. IMO if you are not complying with a cop no matter if you're innocent or not then you run the risk of getting shot.

I have been stopped for minor things like a burned out tail light and I always always always do whatever the officer tells me to do. I even go so far as to keep my registration clipped to my visor so I don't have to rummage around in the glove box for it. I keep both my drivers' license and my CCW permit in my front shirt pocket so I don't have to reach behind my back to get them out of a wallet.

My thoughts on the matter are that if you get shot by a cop you were doing something to deserve it.

Cops getting shot is part of the job.

While I believe that to be the case in the majority of instances, there certainly are many mistakes also:
New Details Surface In Minnesota Officer-Involved Shooting Of Australian Woman

This guy would have been better off not carrying:
'Concealed carrier's worst nightmare': Officer acquitted in death of Philando Castile

Possibly getting shot is part of the job, but it doesn't need to be so bad:

In 2015, the year for which the most recent French government data are available, six police officers were killed in the line of duty, according to an October 2016 report by the National Institute of Higher Studies of Security and Justice. In 2014, 11 officers were killed, and the total for the year before that was 10. The numbers dating to 2010 are slightly lower


.French police are targeted but rarely killed

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

It certainly is a lot compared to other civilized countries. See France.

63 officers out of 1.8 million is not a lot. That's .0036% of cops. Even if France is 0% the difference is insignificant

And I don't know about you but I don't care about France or any other country. I don't want to live in any of those countries.

I don't particularly care about France, but I do care about our law enforcement. The rate seems much higher than it should be.

 

[Brain357]

I hate seeing news like this weekly:
Missouri Man Arrested in Fatal Shooting of Police Officer

 

[Skull Pilot]

And here is a comparison of how many people our police kill:
According to the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings, 990 people were killed in 2015. In Germany, ten people were killed by police last year, according to a report on Thursday by publishing group Funke Mediengruppe, citing figures from the German Police University.

That means that while the population of the US is roughly four times that of Germany, the number of fatal police shootings there is about 100 times greater.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

That article cited absolute numbers not percentages

in the US 990/350000000 or .000282% of the population

In Germany 10/ 83000000 .000012% of the population


No matter how you slice those two numbers they are both insignificant as compared to the population of either country

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, luckily I have not ever had to use a gun in self defense. But then again I've never used home owners insurance either but I still keep it.
There is real violence in this world and I count myself lucky as to have not been a victim of violent crime as of this point in my life but I am not naive enough to think it will never happen.

And I really don't care how many people are shot by cops. IMO if you are not complying with a cop no matter if you're innocent or not then you run the risk of getting shot.

I have been stopped for minor things like a burned out tail light and I always always always do whatever the officer tells me to do. I even go so far as to keep my registration clipped to my visor so I don't have to rummage around in the glove box for it. I keep both my drivers' license and my CCW permit in my front shirt pocket so I don't have to reach behind my back to get them out of a wallet.

My thoughts on the matter are that if you get shot by a cop you were doing something to deserve it.

Cops getting shot is part of the job.

While I believe that to be the case in the majority of instances, there certainly are many mistakes also:
New Details Surface In Minnesota Officer-Involved Shooting Of Australian Woman

This guy would have been better off not carrying:
'Concealed carrier's worst nightmare': Officer acquitted in death of Philando Castile

Possibly getting shot is part of the job, but it doesn't need to be so bad:

In 2015, the year for which the most recent French government data are available, six police officers were killed in the line of duty, according to an October 2016 report by the National Institute of Higher Studies of Security and Justice. In 2014, 11 officers were killed, and the total for the year before that was 10. The numbers dating to 2010 are slightly lower


.French police are targeted but rarely killed

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

It certainly is a lot compared to other civilized countries. See France.

63 officers out of 1.8 million is not a lot. That's .0036% of cops. Even if France is 0% the difference is insignificant

And I don't know about you but I don't care about France or any other country. I don't want to live in any of those countries.

I don't particularly care about France, but I do care about our law enforcement. The rate seems much higher than it should be.

The rate people get shot by cops is .00028 out of 100

 

[Skull Pilot]

I hate seeing news like this weekly:
Missouri Man Arrested in Fatal Shooting of Police Officer

Then don't read the news

 

[Brain357]

While I believe that to be the case in the majority of instances, there certainly are many mistakes also:
New Details Surface In Minnesota Officer-Involved Shooting Of Australian Woman

This guy would have been better off not carrying:
'Concealed carrier's worst nightmare': Officer acquitted in death of Philando Castile

Possibly getting shot is part of the job, but it doesn't need to be so bad:

In 2015, the year for which the most recent French government data are available, six police officers were killed in the line of duty, according to an October 2016 report by the National Institute of Higher Studies of Security and Justice. In 2014, 11 officers were killed, and the total for the year before that was 10. The numbers dating to 2010 are slightly lower


.French police are targeted but rarely killed

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

It certainly is a lot compared to other civilized countries. See France.

63 officers out of 1.8 million is not a lot. That's .0036% of cops. Even if France is 0% the difference is insignificant

And I don't know about you but I don't care about France or any other country. I don't want to live in any of those countries.

I don't particularly care about France, but I do care about our law enforcement. The rate seems much higher than it should be.

The rate people get shot by cops is .00028 out of 100

You wouldn't save the lives of 30 or more officers each year if you could?

 

[Brain357]

And here is a comparison of how many people our police kill:
According to the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings, 990 people were killed in 2015. In Germany, ten people were killed by police last year, according to a report on Thursday by publishing group Funke Mediengruppe, citing figures from the German Police University.

That means that while the population of the US is roughly four times that of Germany, the number of fatal police shootings there is about 100 times greater.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

That article cited absolute numbers not percentages

in the US 990/350000000 or .000282% of the population

In Germany 10/ 83000000 .000012% of the population


No matter how you slice those two numbers they are both insignificant as compared to the population of either country

It happens way more than it does in Germany.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Who do you think steals the guns?

Criminals.

Criminals also steal money which is then used to buy drugs and guns. So good people shouldn't have money since having money that can be stolen leads to drugs and gun use and violent crime

Also law abiding people shouldn't have daughters, because if they chose to not have daughters, rape would decrease 10 fold at a minimum....

Did you know that if non-criminals stopped buying automobiles we could reduce the number of auto thefts in the US?

And if humanity would abort itself this would all be fixed quickly!

The key factor with all the problems with humans is humans...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

Criminals cannot get a carry permit.

Lots of permits can lead to more stolen guns and more armed criminals.

So you are blaiming the law abiding citizen for what the criminal is doing.

So if we have less cars or no cars then there will be less car thefts and drunk drivers because we should not tempt the criminal by allowing law abiding citizens to have something that criminals might steal or abuse...

 

[sakinago]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

Jesus Christ, the researcher had to come up with fake states, in a fake simulation, ina n environment he set up...why not just look up the actual statistics???? There's more than plenty of recorded statistics on the matter contradicting his fantasy land. The fact he had to set up a "virtual environment," to come to this conclusion WASNT A RED FLAG FOR YOU? You have got to be kidding me.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

More than 750 people have been murdered in Chicago in 2016, the police said, a 58 percent increase over last year and the highest total since 1997. There have been more than 3,500 shootings in the city this year.

As Chicago Murder Rate Spikes, Many Fear Violence Has Become Normalized

Perhaps we should ban Chicago.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Whenever there are people involved accidents will inevitably happen. The rate of accidental shooting is still minuscule.

Castille made his own mistakes which is why he got shot.

In 2016 135 officers dies while on duty and only about half of them were shot

That's not a lot.

It certainly is a lot compared to other civilized countries. See France.

63 officers out of 1.8 million is not a lot. That's .0036% of cops. Even if France is 0% the difference is insignificant

And I don't know about you but I don't care about France or any other country. I don't want to live in any of those countries.

I don't particularly care about France, but I do care about our law enforcement. The rate seems much higher than it should be.

The rate people get shot by cops is .00028 out of 100

You wouldn't save the lives of 30 or more officers each year if you could?

Not if it meant I couldn't carry a weapon no.

Instead of concentrating on the people who will obey the laws why don't we decide to treat the criminals who actually use guns to commit crimes with the severity warranted?

You want to stop gun crimes?

Mandatory sentencing no exceptions for anyone 16 or older

Anyone committing a crime while in possession of a firearm whether or not they used the firearm or kept it in their pocket 30 years no parole
Anyone who shoots a person during the commission of any crime automatic life no parole whether or not the person who was shot lives or dies

 

[Skull Pilot]

And here is a comparison of how many people our police kill:
According to the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings, 990 people were killed in 2015. In Germany, ten people were killed by police last year, according to a report on Thursday by publishing group Funke Mediengruppe, citing figures from the German Police University.

That means that while the population of the US is roughly four times that of Germany, the number of fatal police shootings there is about 100 times greater.

US cops killed 100 times more than German police in 2015

That article cited absolute numbers not percentages

in the US 990/350000000 or .000282% of the population

In Germany 10/ 83000000 .000012% of the population


No matter how you slice those two numbers they are both insignificant as compared to the population of either country

It happens way more than it does in Germany.

So what?

You want to be like Germany then go live in Germany

I don't care what happens in Germany, France, England, or any other country

 

[Skull Pilot]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

Jesus Christ, the researcher had to come up with fake states, in a fake simulation, ina n environment he set up...why not just look up the actual statistics???? There's more than plenty of recorded statistics on the matter contradicting his fantasy land. The fact he had to set up a "virtual environment," to come to this conclusion WASNT A RED FLAG FOR YOU? You have got to be kidding me.

Why look up real numbers when you can use "synthetic analysis" and make the numbers come out to agree with your preconceptions?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I could care less about stats.
I will be one who decides if I carry or not.

And you should probably consider stats in that decision.

No thanks, I'm the master here, not the government. I have my rights, and I'm willing to take the risk.