Does the first amendment mean we can discriminate?

[dblack]

Public accommodations laws that prohibit discrimination on the part of business owners in no way 'denies' freedom of choice or freedom of religion – on any level.

Moreover, public accommodations laws do not 'authorize' society to 'lay claim' to the property rights of business owners

Of course it does. It denies them rights we wouldn't think of taking away from a homeowner.

 

[SwimExpert]

Yes folks, Where's my keys really is that stupid. Which seems to explain why he can't find his keys.

You can't seem to find a cogent argument.

....when a speaker is an idiot without one.

^^true statement^^

 

[SuperDemocrat]

You are not being forced to do anything that you find morally offensive, so you should not seek to coerce the religious vendor into doing something that he finds morally offensive. Live and let live. Show some tolerance and respect for different values and beliefs.

Maybe you can answer this question.

Can I discriminate against a Christian that wants to rent one of my houses? Just curious. They really want to rent this house. Close to their kids school, their work, just the right size, close to church. They have the money they have the good rent history.

But I just don't like Christians. Should I be able to discriminate in the housing arena? It would be morally offensive to me being a different religion than they are.

Is discrimination in housing something we should try and bring back?

you can but the free market will check your intolerance. Consider this scenario. A shop owner refuses to sell to Christians. That customer then decides to visit a competitor down the street. Which business will do better? The one that accepts all or the one who turns away half its customers.

Consider this. Many rich restaurants may turn away poorly dressed customers or ones that are deemed not good enough to eat there. Why isn't there mass starvation? That is because those customers can visit a competitor. I suspect the same thing would happen if we allowed people to discriminate.

 

[Two Thumbs]

yes

the US government cannot and will not force the naacp to give a scholarship to a non black or hispanic

yes

the US government cannot and will not force the naacp to give a scholarship to a non black or hispanic

Would you like to form the NAAWP? Because then congratulations, as a private organization, you would be able to give away money to whoever the hell you want. Want to give only to white people? Congrats get on it.

Is a privately owned bakery a "private organization"? By your logic, shouldn't that privately owned business be allowed to refuse to participate in something they consider abhorrent?

Well, you see, the libturds invented this fiction called a "public business" which allowed them to narrow the definition of "private" to the point where it's practically meaningless. A "public business" is private property, so they have to go through these mental gymnastics to claim that it isn't really private property because it sells to "the public," meaning everyone, even if the owner chooses not to sell to everyone.

Understand?

I guess they do sell to private persons so that makes it a private to private transaction. Where is the public involved?

the naacp gets millions from our tax dollars
the bakery did not

therefore the naacp MUST give scholarships to everyone while the bakery can pick and choose

just admit to the double standard and confess this has nothing to do with equality or discrimination

 

[Ernie S.]

Sorry, no.

Well hey you can lead a horse to water, can't make him drink.

There in lies your problem. I don't drink. You should try it. It may even make you sound only mildly retarded.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sorry, no.

Well hey you can lead a horse to water, can't make him drink.

That's because the horse has a right to discriminate.

The horse also has the right to eat its own poop. In fact, knowing Ernie I think that might be the case!

You don't know shit, young fella, and you certainly don't know me.

 

[|electric|foxy|]

• 1st amendment doesn't mean anyone can discriminate
• criminal law means noone can discriminate

 

[paperview]

yes

the US government cannot and will not force the naacp to give a scholarship to a non black or hispanic

yes

the US government cannot and will not force the naacp to give a scholarship to a non black or hispanic

Would you like to form the NAAWP? Because then congratulations, as a private organization, you would be able to give away money to whoever the hell you want. Want to give only to white people? Congrats get on it.

Is a privately owned bakery a "private organization"? By your logic, shouldn't that privately owned business be allowed to refuse to participate in something they consider abhorrent?

Well, you see, the libturds invented this fiction called a "public business" which allowed them to narrow the definition of "private" to the point where it's practically meaningless. A "public business" is private property, so they have to go through these mental gymnastics to claim that it isn't really private property because it sells to "the public," meaning everyone, even if the owner chooses not to sell to everyone.

Understand?

I guess they do sell to private persons so that makes it a private to private transaction. Where is the public involved?

the naacp gets millions from our tax dollars
the bakery did not

therefore the naacp MUST give scholarships to everyone while the bakery can pick and choose

just admit to the double standard and confess this has nothing to do with equality or discrimination

"the naacp gets millions from our tax dollars"

?? What? The NAACP is a private Civil Rights org, doof. It's a 501c3. It doesn't get "millions of our tax dollars."

 

[zeke]

You are not being forced to do anything that you find morally offensive, so you should not seek to coerce the religious vendor into doing something that he finds morally offensive. Live and let live. Show some tolerance and respect for different values and beliefs.

Maybe you can answer this question.

Can I discriminate against a Christian that wants to rent one of my houses? Just curious. They really want to rent this house. Close to their kids school, their work, just the right size, close to church. They have the money they have the good rent history.

But I just don't like Christians. Should I be able to discriminate in the housing arena? It would be morally offensive to me being a different religion than they are.

Is discrimination in housing something we should try and bring back?

you can but the free market will check your intolerance. Consider this scenario. A shop owner refuses to sell to Christians. That customer then decides to visit a competitor down the street. Which business will do better? The one that accepts all or the one who turns away half its customers.

Consider this. Many rich restaurants may turn away poorly dressed customers or ones that are deemed not good enough to eat there. Why isn't there mass starvation? That is because those customers can visit a competitor. I suspect the same thing would happen if we allowed people to discriminate.

Renting houses is not the same as going into a restaurant. If I discriminate against a Christian, they won't know about it. But if they did suspect that they had been discriminated against, would that be ok? Should they be able to file suit against me for housing discrimination?

It's my house, I can rent it to whoever I want. Right? My religion has a problem with Christianity. I would rather
rent to anyone other than a Christian.

Is that the way you think it should be?

 

[PratchettFan]

I was giving this a lot of thought and I wonder if taking away the freedom to discriminate against people of different races actually takes away our ability to make moral choices for ourselves. I know it is wrong to discriminate on this basis but taking away that choice from others might take away the right to make moral choices for themselves. The freedom of religion implies that we have the right to pursue what we think is right since two different religions might have opposite moral codes example: satanism vs Christianity. Clearly we can choose either religion (or none at all) which means we can decide what we think is right based on our freedom to associate with our church. What if someone really doesn't think there is nothing wrong with discriminating based on race? Does the first amendment mean that anti discrimination laws are unconstitutional.?

It really isn't that simple. You almost never have a situation that really matters which doesn't have a conflict between one person's freedom and another. The government has an obligation to insure that not only are freedoms are protected, but that there is a stable society in which those freedoms can exist. No freedom is unlimited, nor can it be. If you place no limit on freedom, you have chaos. If you place no limit on government, you have oppression. So the question is not can you discriminate, but at what point does the government have a compelling interest to stop it.

 

[paperview]

You are not being forced to do anything that you find morally offensive, so you should not seek to coerce the religious vendor into doing something that he finds morally offensive. Live and let live. Show some tolerance and respect for different values and beliefs.

Maybe you can answer this question.

Can I discriminate against a Christian that wants to rent one of my houses? Just curious. They really want to rent this house. Close to their kids school, their work, just the right size, close to church. They have the money they have the good rent history.

But I just don't like Christians. Should I be able to discriminate in the housing arena? It would be morally offensive to me being a different religion than they are.

Is discrimination in housing something we should try and bring back?

you can but the free market will check your intolerance. Consider this scenario. A shop owner refuses to sell to Christians. That customer then decides to visit a competitor down the street. Which business will do better? The one that accepts all or the one who turns away half its customers.

Consider this. Many rich restaurants may turn away poorly dressed customers or ones that are deemed not good enough to eat there. Why isn't there mass starvation? That is because those customers can visit a competitor. I suspect the same thing would happen if we allowed people to discriminate.

Renting houses is not the same as going into a restaurant. If I discriminate against a Christian, they won't know about it. But if they did suspect that they had been discriminated against, would that be ok? Should they be able to file suit against me for housing discrimination?

It's my house, I can rent it to whoever I want. Right? My religion has a problem with Christianity. I would rather
rent to anyone other than a Christian.

Is that the way you think it should be?

Renting houses is different.

There are federal and state laws that apply to you renting your own house that would not fall under public accommodation laws - unless you're running a business renting out many houses (more than six) and it's not owner occupied.

 

[zeke]

Renting houses is different.

There are federal and state laws that apply to you renting your own house that would not fall under public accommodation laws - unless you're running a business renting out many houses (more than six) and it's not owner occupied.

I understand that. I have been a landlord for 26 years.

My question is a hypothetical one. After all, the shop owners are saying the public accommodation laws don't apply to them because their religious beliefs trumps public accommodation.

Should that be the same for housing is the question. And if not, why not? Whats the difference. I have a religious conviction that I don't want to deal with Christians.

And what I want is for one of the Christians on here who support not doing business with someone based on religious beliefs, to tell me that they would be perfectly ok if they were discriminated against in the housing arena.

 

[paperview]

Renting houses is different.

There are federal and state laws that apply to you renting your own house that would not fall under public accommodation laws - unless you're running a business renting out many houses (more than six) and it's not owner occupied.

I understand that. I have been a landlord for 26 years.

My question is a hypothetical one. After all, the shop owners are saying the public accommodation laws don't apply to them because their religious beliefs trumps public accommodation.

Should that be the same for housing is the question. And if not, why not? Whats the difference. I have a religious conviction that I don't want to deal with Christians.

And what I want is for one of the Christians on here who support not doing business with someone based on religious beliefs, to tell me that they would be perfectly ok if they were discriminated against in the housing arena.

Ok. Gotcha.

 

[zeke]

Ok. Gotcha.

For some reason I don't think the supposed Christians on here are going to agree to be discriminated against.
No matter how much they want to practice discrimination themselves.

They (Christians) are hypocritical like that.

 

[PratchettFan]

Renting houses is different.

There are federal and state laws that apply to you renting your own house that would not fall under public accommodation laws - unless you're running a business renting out many houses (more than six) and it's not owner occupied.

I understand that. I have been a landlord for 26 years.

My question is a hypothetical one. After all, the shop owners are saying the public accommodation laws don't apply to them because their religious beliefs trumps public accommodation.

Should that be the same for housing is the question. And if not, why not? Whats the difference. I have a religious conviction that I don't want to deal with Christians.

And what I want is for one of the Christians on here who support not doing business with someone based on religious beliefs, to tell me that they would be perfectly ok if they were discriminated against in the housing arena.

I would say there are certain things which can be considered necessities. Housing would be one of them. To allow discrimination in housing creates hardships and ghettos, which are not conducive of a stable society. As such, it does create a compelling interest for the government to prevent.

OTOH, there are things which cannot be seen as necessities. Flower arrangements are a prime example. So my question would be, where is the compelling interest?

 

[Seawytch]

 

[SwimExpert]

You are not being forced to do anything that you find morally offensive, so you should not seek to coerce the religious vendor into doing something that he finds morally offensive. Live and let live. Show some tolerance and respect for different values and beliefs.

Maybe you can answer this question.

Can I discriminate against a Christian that wants to rent one of my houses? Just curious. They really want to rent this house. Close to their kids school, their work, just the right size, close to church. They have the money they have the good rent history.

But I just don't like Christians. Should I be able to discriminate in the housing arena? It would be morally offensive to me being a different religion than they are.

Is discrimination in housing something we should try and bring back?

you can but the free market will check your intolerance. Consider this scenario. A shop owner refuses to sell to Christians. That customer then decides to visit a competitor down the street. Which business will do better? The one that accepts all or the one who turns away half its customers.

Consider this. Many rich restaurants may turn away poorly dressed customers or ones that are deemed not good enough to eat there. Why isn't there mass starvation? That is because those customers can visit a competitor. I suspect the same thing would happen if we allowed people to discriminate.

Renting houses is not the same as going into a restaurant. If I discriminate against a Christian, they won't know about it. But if they did suspect that they had been discriminated against, would that be ok? Should they be able to file suit against me for housing discrimination?

It's my house, I can rent it to whoever I want. Right? My religion has a problem with Christianity. I would rather
rent to anyone other than a Christian.

Is that the way you think it should be?

Works for me.

 

[Seawytch]

 

[zeke]

I would say there are certain things which can be considered necessities. Housing would be one of them. To allow discrimination in housing creates hardships and ghettos, which are not conducive of a stable society. As such, it does create a compelling interest for the government to prevent.

My religious beliefs are my religious beliefs. Your housing needs are not my concern. And like the baker says to those they don't want to perform a service for, there are other bakeries in town.

Just like there are other rentals in whatever area they are looking for housing in.

To allow the government to force me to do business with those I don't want to do business is an infringement on my rights. Correct? No difference between by business and religious beliefs and the bakers. Well except that if the baker does business it's over right away. If I am forced to rent houses to Christians. I have to deal with them for months. Maybe longer. That's really infringing on my rights..

But I don't think that YOU are one of those Christians who wants to discriminate based on religious beliefs are you?

 

[zeke]

Works for me.

Cool. I got one vote for housing discrimination. Anyone else for it? against it?