Does your God have limitations?

[OldLady]

If there is a concept as important as infinity to which logic can't apply, does that say something about infinity or logic?

It could mean that logic is just a local thing, I dont know....but its fun to think about

Of course. But if logic is only applicable to certain concepts, are you saying that the concept must be wrong, not the logic?
I think logic is a useful but limited tool.

No, that's why it's not some attack on God as some have presumed. Its a question regarding particular folks' views on Gods...

Infinity power cannot make logical sense, it violates the law of non contradiction..(infinity power, but with a limit, is logically contradictory)...but that wasn't some attack....There were ways around the paradox that even I offered ~ right? So, to presume it's some trap was just a troll job. That's why certain folks aren't worth having amicable discussions with...

Also pretending the omnipotence paradox doesnt exist ....when its been a part of literature for hundreds of years??? That's dealing in egos, not amicable conversation. Its corny, I'm not here to "win" something...and I hate that shitty attitude.

Ah ! That's why you call him a troll. I get it.
If infinite power does not make logical sense, does that mean infinity itself does not make sense?

Infinity itself has been something widely discussed in both math, and philosophy. The concept makes sense right...plainly spoken it's just..."no end/limit."

But it's when the brain begins to go ahead and try to imagine what that actually looks like in the real world, it's not even conceivable by its very nature.......when something has no end, you cant even see near its end.........or even its middle....or imagine what that looks like.


On a micro-scale, the #of planets in the Universe isnt even conceivable, to us.....so where does that leave us in conceiving of infinity? It just cannot be done; however, it is useful in mathematical models and stuff.

Maybe it's our brain that has limits, not infinity. Are you following me?

 

[G.T.]

It could mean that logic is just a local thing, I dont know....but its fun to think about

Of course. But if logic is only applicable to certain concepts, are you saying that the concept must be wrong, not the logic?
I think logic is a useful but limited tool.

No, that's why it's not some attack on God as some have presumed. Its a question regarding particular folks' views on Gods...

Infinity power cannot make logical sense, it violates the law of non contradiction..(infinity power, but with a limit, is logically contradictory)...but that wasn't some attack....There were ways around the paradox that even I offered ~ right? So, to presume it's some trap was just a troll job. That's why certain folks aren't worth having amicable discussions with...

Also pretending the omnipotence paradox doesnt exist ....when its been a part of literature for hundreds of years??? That's dealing in egos, not amicable conversation. Its corny, I'm not here to "win" something...and I hate that shitty attitude.

Ah ! That's why you call him a troll. I get it.
If infinite power does not make logical sense, does that mean infinity itself does not make sense?

Infinity itself has been something widely discussed in both math, and philosophy. The concept makes sense right...plainly spoken it's just..."no end/limit."

But it's when the brain begins to go ahead and try to imagine what that actually looks like in the real world, it's not even conceivable by its very nature.......when something has no end, you cant even see near its end.........or even its middle....or imagine what that looks like.


On a micro-scale, the #of planets in the Universe isnt even conceivable, to us.....so where does that leave us in conceiving of infinity? It just cannot be done; however, it is useful in mathematical models and stuff.

Maybe it's our brain that has limits, not infinity. Are you following me?

I was already there in post #1

Thats what was meant by "humans cannot understand" in that opening post.

FWIW, *if* there were a God with infinite power, you and I are on the same page in that it wouldnt even be conceivable to our finite brains.

This thread's backbone was just that very idea - let's take a look at the folks who actually DONT think its inconceivable, and see what explanation they've then got for the omnipotence paradox and kick around the ideas this could bring about ~ old or new.

Most are able to do that in good faith, for others it makes their Ego come out in full bloom and act irrationally bigger than their britches.

 

[RWNJ]

It could mean that logic is just a local thing, I dont know....but its fun to think about

Of course. But if logic is only applicable to certain concepts, are you saying that the concept must be wrong, not the logic?
I think logic is a useful but limited tool.

No, that's why it's not some attack on God as some have presumed. Its a question regarding particular folks' views on Gods...

Infinity power cannot make logical sense, it violates the law of non contradiction..(infinity power, but with a limit, is logically contradictory)...but that wasn't some attack....There were ways around the paradox that even I offered ~ right? So, to presume it's some trap was just a troll job. That's why certain folks aren't worth having amicable discussions with...

Also pretending the omnipotence paradox doesnt exist ....when its been a part of literature for hundreds of years??? That's dealing in egos, not amicable conversation. Its corny, I'm not here to "win" something...and I hate that shitty attitude.

Ah ! That's why you call him a troll. I get it.
If infinite power does not make logical sense, does that mean infinity itself does not make sense?

Infinity itself has been something widely discussed in both math, and philosophy. The concept makes sense right...plainly spoken it's just..."no end/limit."

But it's when the brain begins to go ahead and try to imagine what that actually looks like in the real world, it's not even conceivable by its very nature.......when something has no end, you cant even see near its end.........or even its middle....or imagine what that looks like.


On a micro-scale, the #of planets in the Universe isnt even conceivable, to us.....so where does that leave us in conceiving of infinity? It just cannot be done; however, it is useful in mathematical models and stuff.

Maybe it's our brain that has limits, not infinity. Are you following me?

What really cracks me up is that the same people who dont believe in an eternal God, with no beginning and no end, are the same ones who try to get around it by claiming that energy is eternal. And the universe was created by energy. So, in effect, energy is their god. Hilarious.

 

[G.T.]

Of course. But if logic is only applicable to certain concepts, are you saying that the concept must be wrong, not the logic?
I think logic is a useful but limited tool.

No, that's why it's not some attack on God as some have presumed. Its a question regarding particular folks' views on Gods...

Infinity power cannot make logical sense, it violates the law of non contradiction..(infinity power, but with a limit, is logically contradictory)...but that wasn't some attack....There were ways around the paradox that even I offered ~ right? So, to presume it's some trap was just a troll job. That's why certain folks aren't worth having amicable discussions with...

Also pretending the omnipotence paradox doesnt exist ....when its been a part of literature for hundreds of years??? That's dealing in egos, not amicable conversation. Its corny, I'm not here to "win" something...and I hate that shitty attitude.

Ah ! That's why you call him a troll. I get it.
If infinite power does not make logical sense, does that mean infinity itself does not make sense?

Infinity itself has been something widely discussed in both math, and philosophy. The concept makes sense right...plainly spoken it's just..."no end/limit."

But it's when the brain begins to go ahead and try to imagine what that actually looks like in the real world, it's not even conceivable by its very nature.......when something has no end, you cant even see near its end.........or even its middle....or imagine what that looks like.


On a micro-scale, the #of planets in the Universe isnt even conceivable, to us.....so where does that leave us in conceiving of infinity? It just cannot be done; however, it is useful in mathematical models and stuff.

Maybe it's our brain that has limits, not infinity. Are you following me?

What really cracks me up is that the same people who dont believe in an eternal God, with no beginning and no end, are the same ones who try to get around it by claiming that energy is eternal. And the universe was created by energy. So, in effect, energy is their god. Hilarious.

Atheism isn't rational under current human knowledge ~ the answer is that we still dont know.... but they take that a step further and make the positive claim that there is no god.

 

[ding]

And some people lie to themselves that they don't believe that, but behave as if they do.

 

[ding]

I'm interested to know about what you perceive your God's limitations to be (if any).

The all knowing AND all powerful God description seems to defy logic, but if your God can be illogical..... then I suppose that's fine;....however, if it's fine ........you're admitting that the Laws of Logic are not absolute as they can be broken by your God.

Many explain away paradoxes as "we're too small and ignorant to understand."

I accept that answer, but Im not interested in it if it's yours, as the conversation ends there. Im interested in folks who believe their God has limitations or not, and if not ~ if they can logically explain away all of the paradoxes this causes without invoking ignorance.

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”