Donald Praise Duterte War on Drugs?

[Andylusion]

Andy: Kill all drug dealers hurray for vigilante
Charwin: Kill all drug dealers but legally
Me: Drug dealers are legitimate biz. Eliminate all government intervention in anything. Let customers decide if drugs are bad or not. If a person fails to be productive members of society, let them starve or kill them.

Drug dealers are not a legitimate business. You keep forgetting, we had good reasons to ban drugs to begin with.

If you eliminate all government intervention.... we the public are going to take up arms, and slaughter all the drug dealers.

As much as you claim you don't want government intervention, you need government holding the good people of this country back, from slaughtering all you druggies.

 

[grbb]

And who decides whether a business is a legitimate business or not? Customer or government?

That's one of the thing libertarian always think you know. It's not about what's true. It's not about what is the BETTER choice.

It's WHO ARE making that choice.

I believe in market mechanism. Why? Customers are selfish. It's not toward of the best interest of any well informed customers to buy harmful product. So free market where customers choose will all be relatively safe. I would, in case of controversy, support requirement by sellers to fully informed customers. Even that is far from necessary.

What incentive any government officials have in deciding that ganja is dangerous? Even if it's indeed dangerous, what incentive do they have in declaring something is dangerous because it is dangerous?

Public opinion? Ask the public how many people dies due to ganja overdose and most in Indonesia don't even know.

Let me tell you a sample of a dangerous product.

Unit link insurance. A customer can ask agent that he wants a little insurance and the rest are investments. The agent says all are investments but there are indeed a little insurance. Okay the customer try.

You know what happens? In most insurance company, an insurance product that worth $50 if bought separately can have $5k fee if bought with investment. There is no known limit actually. You can get a $1 insurance and then there's $100k fee. So you invest $1 million, the agent says all are invested, and all $1 million will go for fees whose main purpose is to pay agent commission. The fee is very difficult to be found by reading contract.

The agent latter says that all are indeed "investment". Customers lose money because they stop "investing". Basically in second year, not all of the money are gone. Some money are indeed invested in regular mutual fund that may go up in value for "long" term. But any customers that knows there will be a $1 million fee can just easily put money in regular mutual fund and don't have to pay a bullshit $1 million fee in front. The first $1 million is still gone. Continuing means losing another huge money.

It's like depositing money on bank and lost 99% of of the deposit through fees. Of course the 1% can grow to cover the 99%fee in 1 thousand years. But that's just so stupid no customers that know about the 99% fee will want to invest.

How the fuck that super dangerous product can "sell". People put huge money thinking this is not going to be far different than regular mutual fund but have 230% of yearly investments gone for fee. And that happens even though the insurance is very little?

Because here in my country there is no freedom of speech. Big companies can sue people for defamation even for carefully explaining what's really going on publicly. So they can just say bullshit like that.

Government did absolutely nothing. It's a legitimate registered company. Selling legitimate investment. Huge fee is a material term in the contract. And it's not written clearly. Their sales agent simply lies.

If government doesn't prohibit something as dangerous as that, the other way around must work too. How do we know that things government prohibit are dangerous? Government is simply not credible in making any conclusion.

Government prohibit porn. Guess what? If kids are beaten up in school, governments do nothing.

The problem is not whether a product is good or not. The problem is not whether getting beaten up in school is more or less dangerous than porn for kids.

The problem is WHO decides.

If I could choose I would be sick with that kind of insurance being sold than any drugs. How many people lost their savings to that scam.

If my son would have sex with a beautiful teacher, I wouldn't mind. If my son got beaten up, I would mind a lot. That's if I decide.

If some sunday school teacher decides, it'll be the other way around.

 

[grbb]

Currently ganja prohibition is status quo. Let's pick another sample. Kratom. It's legal now. Have you heard anyone addicted to kratom? Try it yourself Andy. It's still legal.

I tried it and don't feel anything.

No problem whatsoever.

In thailand it's illegal because it stops opium addiction. The government, selling opium, lost revenue when kratom is legal so they criminalize it. Another sample where a motive far different from "the drug is prohibited because of dangerous"

Do you see gang killing each other due to kratom? It's legal. No body have any problem with it. Then, government still try to prohibit it. Some state does.

On 30 August 2016, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) announced its intention to place the active materials in the kratom plant into Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act as a warning about an imminent hazard to public safety, citing over 600 calls to poison control centers between 2010 and 2015 and 15 kratom-related deaths between 2014 and 2016.[9] This drew strong protests among those using kratom to deal with chronic pain or wean themselves off opioids or alcohol.[38] A group of 51 members of the US House of Representatives and a group of 9 senators each sent letters to Acting DEA Administrator Chuck Rosenberg protesting the listing and around 140,000 people signed an online White House Petition protesting it.[39][40] The DEA noted the responses but said that it intended to go forward with the listing; a spokesman said: "We can't rely upon public opinion and anecdotal evidence. We have to rely upon science."[41] In October 2016, the DEA withdrew its notice of intent while inviting public comments over a review period ending 1 December 2016.[42][43]

As of May 2016, Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Tennessee, Vermont, and Wisconsin had made kratom illegal,[44] and the US Army had forbidden soldiers from using it.[45]

15 kratom related death may seem big but it's small compared to usage. Also kratom related include people that eats kratom and insecticide for example.

I think wikipedia once say that kratom causes no health problem.

Does cannabis really lower your IQ? | Claire Mokrysz

xtc used to be legal too. Millions of people using it. Where are those millions of people now? Jobless? Death? I mean if a drug used by millions of people surely we have enough data if mass death occur. Where?

 

[badger2]

There's more to kratom: the chemistry links to the wormer found in the autopsy hair sample of Princess Diana's chaffeur. If kratom's action is at the opioid receptors, we may as well be talking about cannabinoid receptors and their polymorphisms..

 

[grbb]

The fact is kratom has been legal for years without problem. So what? Ganja too has been legal for years without problem. So is xtc. So why criminalize it?

Kratom is still legal. All of you should try that. I tried that.

I don't try a lot to be frank. I mean I don't like it very much. Will I be addicted?

I am addicted to skyrim and making real money

 

[Andylusion]

Currently ganja prohibition is status quo. Let's pick another sample. Kratom. It's legal now. Have you heard anyone addicted to kratom? Try it yourself Andy. It's still legal.

I tried it and don't feel anything.

No problem whatsoever.

In thailand it's illegal because it stops opium addiction. The government, selling opium, lost revenue when kratom is legal so they criminalize it. Another sample where a motive far different from "the drug is prohibited because of dangerous"

Do you see gang killing each other due to kratom? It's legal. No body have any problem with it. Then, government still try to prohibit it. Some state does.

On 30 August 2016, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) announced its intention to place the active materials in the kratom plant into Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act as a warning about an imminent hazard to public safety, citing over 600 calls to poison control centers between 2010 and 2015 and 15 kratom-related deaths between 2014 and 2016.[9] This drew strong protests among those using kratom to deal with chronic pain or wean themselves off opioids or alcohol.[38] A group of 51 members of the US House of Representatives and a group of 9 senators each sent letters to Acting DEA Administrator Chuck Rosenberg protesting the listing and around 140,000 people signed an online White House Petition protesting it.[39][40] The DEA noted the responses but said that it intended to go forward with the listing; a spokesman said: "We can't rely upon public opinion and anecdotal evidence. We have to rely upon science."[41] In October 2016, the DEA withdrew its notice of intent while inviting public comments over a review period ending 1 December 2016.[42][43]

As of May 2016, Alabama, Arkansas, Indiana, Tennessee, Vermont, and Wisconsin had made kratom illegal,[44] and the US Army had forbidden soldiers from using it.[45]

15 kratom related death may seem big but it's small compared to usage. Also kratom related include people that eats kratom and insecticide for example.

I think wikipedia once say that kratom causes no health problem.

Does cannabis really lower your IQ? | Claire Mokrysz

xtc used to be legal too. Millions of people using it. Where are those millions of people now? Jobless? Death? I mean if a drug used by millions of people surely we have enough data if mass death occur. Where?

This doesn't make a point. Everything you said here, is irrelevant to the discussion. Or at least you failed to make a valid point by posting it.

I don't need to try any drug. I'm fine as I am. I don't need a pill, to make life better.

I don't care what Thailand does. That's there country. Not ours. Just because someone else does something, doesn't mean we should, or shouldn't.

I don't care what the motive is besides "it's dangerous".

There are many laws in this land today, that I 100% disagree with. That doesn't mean I just ignore the law, and do whatever I want.

You think the law should be changed, that's fine. Argue your reasons. We argue our reasons why it should remain illegal.

That doesn't change the fact that it is illegal. Until it is not illegal, if you violate the law, then you should be punished. And when you are punished, don't come crying to me how life isn't fair.

The law is the law. You know the law. You know doing drugs is illegal. You have no excuse. Suck it up buttercup. Grow up. Stop talking like a spoiled brat child, who thinks all rules can be broken. You break the law, you get what is coming to you.

 

[initforme]

Using your loigic Andy we also need to outlaw soda and fast foods because all that sugar and fast food kills more than pot does. Diabetes, cancer can be linked to poor diets. Look at the studies that show cancer cells going crazy when exposed to man made sugars. If we are going to loom at facts those are facts as well.

 

[initforme]

Fast food owners should be prosecuted. So should all tobacco companies followed by candy manufacturers followed by alcohol companies followed by....oh wait..pesticide manufacturers...those are proven carcinogens that are in your body. So we coyuld shut everything down. Legitimately. As I tip my 2nd Heineken of the day.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Duterte IS doing the right thing. We should emulate his actions. He deserves nothing but praise.

We Don't Need Jails, We Need Morgues

Criminals are subhuman and should be exterminated just like any other toxic insect species.

 

[Andylusion]

Using your loigic Andy we also need to outlaw soda and fast foods because all that sugar and fast food kills more than pot does. Diabetes, cancer can be linked to poor diets. Look at the studies that show cancer cells going crazy when exposed to man made sugars. If we are going to loom at facts those are facts as well.

So I've been to the women's shelter, and I've been to homeless shelter.

In all the places I've been, and all the stories I've heard, not one..... NOT ONE....... had people saying "yeah, my parent was addicted to Dr.Pepper." Not one has someone there saying "Yeah I ate too many cheese burgers and lost my home".

I have met people who smoked pot, and had broken families due to pot, who are miserable and wrecked.

 

[initforme]

Are fast food owners criminals? People know what is bad for them....do we outlaw everything? On third Heineken. Last one. Doctor said 2 per day not a problem. 80 years old. He said diet is by far biggest health factor.

 

[initforme]

Some of the most productive people ive ever worked with were high on the job. They knew their craft well. I've met alcoholic doctors and alkcoholuc company execs who knew how to treat workers better than some arrogant stick in the mud ones.

 

[initforme]

Perhaps some do drugs to escape the so called american dream...I mean rat race.

 

[Andylusion]

Perhaps some do drugs to escape the so called american dream...I mean rat race.

That's your problem. If the American dream is just a rat race to you, then you will live a miserable life no matter what drugs you take. You should just kill yourself.

Or maybe you need to find something bigger in this life, than your pathetic self.
(speaking from personal experience).

 

[initforme]

Well I'm retired....been so for 17 years. Nothing beats retirement...its the greatest thing ever. I have never done an illegal drug but I love a couple of heinekens. I avoid fast food( should be outlawed in a perfect world) and can still bench press 250 for 8 easy reps. I believe in liberty and freedom. America is a rat race for working folk. ..sadly.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Using your loigic Andy we also need to outlaw soda and fast foods because all that sugar and fast food kills more than pot does. Diabetes, cancer can be linked to poor diets. Look at the studies that show cancer cells going crazy when exposed to man made sugars. If we are going to loom at facts those are facts as well.

So I've been to the women's shelter, and I've been to homeless shelter.

In all the places I've been, and all the stories I've heard, not one..... NOT ONE....... had people saying "yeah, my parent was addicted to Dr.Pepper." Not one has someone there saying "Yeah I ate too many cheese burgers and lost my home".

I have met people who smoked pot, and had broken families due to pot, who are miserable and wrecked.

So have I. Families evicted because the pot smoking breadwinner couldn't get to work. Mothers who got high and forgot the baby in the bathtub, the candle left burning, or something else.

My step granddaughter forgot she took her daughter to the store until the child was hit by a car.

Pot impairs judgment and that is deadly.

 

[initforme]

So does alcohol....we tried prohibition and it failed miserably. Nobody forces them to take drugs. Nobody pours booze down their throats. Nobody forces them to eat toxic fast food. Nobody forces them to smoke cancer causing tobacco found legally in cigarettes. Americans love their booze and alcohol. Make them illegal...go for it. Then watch the chaos. It would be entertaining.

 

[Andylusion]

Some of the most productive people ive ever worked with were high on the job. They knew their craft well. I've met alcoholic doctors and alkcoholuc company execs who knew how to treat workers better than some arrogant stick in the mud ones.

Again, we already had this stupidity before.

For every one of those people you can list, there are hundred of thousands of others, that are in the gutters.

And even those people.... many of those people get on drugs, and yeah they have a good job for the time, and everything looks fine. Then it all falls apart. The Doctor that gets high, then has an emergency call, screws up a diagnosis or surgery, and ends up losing everything.

Yeah, you meet him before he tanks his life, and it looks fine. You don't see him washed up and disgraced years later.

 

[ClosedCaption]

We already have data from Colorado showing an increase in infants born with defects from pot smoking women.

ROFL...There is also data that shows when you do shit you're not supposed to do during pregnancy that too will cause defects. I don't see you asking to make Tuna, slip and falls, cigarettes and beer illegal.

 

[Andylusion]

So does alcohol....we tried prohibition and it failed miserably. Nobody forces them to take drugs. Nobody pours booze down their throats. Nobody forces them to eat toxic fast food. Nobody forces them to smoke cancer causing tobacco found legally in cigarettes. Americans love their booze and alcohol. Make them illegal...go for it. Then watch the chaos. It would be entertaining.

The prohibition failed miserable, for the same reason all laws that fail, fail miserably.

We did not have the guts to enforce it.

You go to the middle east, they have a modern day prohibition. It works. Why? Because if you don't follow it, they kill your butt.

You will obey the law.

Any law that you don't enforce, is going to fail.

Again, Singapore doesn't have a drug problem at all. Like 1 or 2 arrest every few years.

Why? Because if you are caught with drugs there, you are hanged. Period, end of story, game over, the law is the law, you will follow it, or you will hang in the breeze.

Saying prohibition didn't work, when we didn't enforce it, is not a valid argument. Any law we don't enforce isn't going to work.