Education a right ?

[rikules]

I get confused

sometimes cons get all hyped up about America, declaring "America is GREAT because WE HAVE RIGHTS!"

but here they are telling us that other than guns and voting....we have NO rights at all!

and they seem happy about it....

seems to me that the greatness of a country should be measured by how many rights and privileges the people have

and not by how many they DON'T have

I find the fact that cons delight in our lack of rights to be disturbing

and makes me wonder....

if, other than guns and voting, we don't actually have any rights......
why do cons whine so much about "our rights are being taken away from us"?

There's nothing complicated about it. You don't have a "right" to the labor or property (money) of your fellow citizens. It's just that simple.
If you are not self-fruitful in the matter of education or healthcare, if you can't provide it to yourself without robbing your neighbor... then they aren't "unalienable rights".

What would make you think for even a minute that the rest of us are born owing you something?

"What would make you think for even a minute that the rest of us are born owing you something? "

don't be daft, man.

I wish you cons were capable of intelligent conversation and not just real good at making up lies and insulting people.

I do not think "the rest of you" owe me anything

the discussion here is about RIGHTS

and it seems to me that a truly GREAT America would be less stingy about "RIGHTS"

instead of hearing (from cons) "you do NOT have THAT right " and "you do NOT have THIS right" and "no such RIGHT exists in the constitution" it would be really nice if Americans had a lot of actual RIGHTS and not just a bunch of cons telling us we have VERY FEW rights.

examples;

the right for gays to marry
the right for gays to join the military
the right to smoke pot
the right to engage in prostitution

and whether education is a right or not there can be no doubt that a GREAT education, readily available for ALL citizens, is a good way to keep/make America GREAT

you guys can argue about whether it is a right or not for the rest of eternity (for all I care about what you do to waste your time)

my point: America and Americans NEED highly educated and skilled people to KEEP it GREAT. Consequently we should ALL want GOOD education easily available for ALL Americans. As opposed to the conservative way.....telling everyone they don't have a "RIGHT" to education and them making it hard (and expensive) to get.

I find it disturbing (and a little treasonous) that cons would want to destroy America by denying Americans good education and making education HARD to get and VERY EXPENSIVE.

q: do cons have a RIGHT to destroy America by making education difficult to get?

is that RIGHT somewhere in the constitution?

 

[manifold]

...and whether education is a right or not there can be no doubt that a GREAT education, readily available for ALL citizens, is a good way to keep/make America GREAT

I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. It's the particulars that people disagree on.

Nice rant tho!

 

[SpidermanTuba]

(and expensive) to get.

I find it disturbing (and a little treasonous) that cons would want to destroy America by denying Americans good education and making education HARD to get and VERY EXPENSIVE.

Disturbing, yes. Surprising, no. Neocons detest the poor and will stop at nothing to help ensure they remain poor.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You don't have to believe in God to understand that human life has innate value which simply IS. It exists because we're human, regardless of whether one believes we were created that way or evolved that way. We have an "unalienable right" to be human, and not somebody else's beast of burden.

That's what the Philosophy of thinking MEN has gotten us, sure. But it's still because they concluded that, not because of anything else, and that's the point. What makes something "unalienable" besides calling it that? If MEN didn't decide those rights were "unalienable," THEY'D BE ALIENABLE! God wouldn't stop us from alienating them. Nature wouldn't stop us from Alienating them. AND THEY WERE ALIENATED! FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS of HUMAN HISTORY!!

So MEN decided we have inherent Rights, and most Humans like that idea, but the idea of having inherent rights still came from Men but was not "actually" "inherent upon our being." That's whimsical speak. They're not from Nature. Not from "simply being Human," not from God. They're from Man enacted Law. The rights were Alienable before, and we have thousands of years of proof of their alienation.

They weren't alienable before, they just were not protected.

 

[manifold]

(and expensive) to get.

I find it disturbing (and a little treasonous) that cons would want to destroy America by denying Americans good education and making education HARD to get and VERY EXPENSIVE.

Disturbing, yes. Surprising, no. Neocons detest the poor and will stop at nothing to help ensure they remain poor.

Spoken like a true kool-aid drinking, partisan hack.

As if cons have a monopoly on shitting on the poor.

 

[The Rabbi]

(and expensive) to get.

I find it disturbing (and a little treasonous) that cons would want to destroy America by denying Americans good education and making education HARD to get and VERY EXPENSIVE.

Disturbing, yes. Surprising, no. Neocons detest the poor and will stop at nothing to help ensure they remain poor.

No, that's Dems you're thinking of.
Of the major cities with the biggest most blighted slums, all of them have been controlled by Democrats for 30+ years. Every failing school district has been controlled by Democrats. Every state about to go bankrupt has been controlled by Democrats. Every gov't measure that has insured the poor are kept dependent on the gov't has been sponsored and promoted by Democrats.
Please tell me something Democrats have done to help poor people stop being poor. Just one thing.

 

[manifold]

(and expensive) to get.

I find it disturbing (and a little treasonous) that cons would want to destroy America by denying Americans good education and making education HARD to get and VERY EXPENSIVE.

Disturbing, yes. Surprising, no. Neocons detest the poor and will stop at nothing to help ensure they remain poor.

No, that's Dems you're thinking of.
Of the major cities with the biggest most blighted slums, all of them have been controlled by Democrats for 30+ years. Every failing school district has been controlled by Democrats. Every state about to go bankrupt has been controlled by Democrats. Every gov't measure that has insured the poor are kept dependent on the gov't has been sponsored and promoted by Democrats.
Please tell me something Democrats have done to help poor people stop being poor. Just one thing.

They try to make it easier to be poor.

On the whole, I'm not convinced that is all bad. But I fully concede that it comes at cost.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Every state about to go bankrupt has been controlled by Democrats.

Hey do you intend to argue using real facts or just the ones you made up? The Michigan state Senate is controlled by REPUBLICANS. Both of South Carolina's and Florida's, houses are Republican.

 

[The Rabbi]

Every state about to go bankrupt has been controlled by Democrats.

Hey do you intend to argue using real facts or just the ones you made up? The Michigan state Senate is controlled by REPUBLICANS. Both of South Carolina's and Florida's, houses are Republican.

MI has been controlled by Democrats for years. Your comment is a red herring.
SoCarolina is one of the few states doing well.
How about CA? Or NY?

How about using facts that actually matter rather than cherry picking to make your pitiful case?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

MI has been controlled by Democrats for years.

That's not even true the Michigan Senate has been controlled by Republicans for over 20 years, and the house only turned Democratic in 2006, but hey, don't let FACTS get in your way!

SoCarolina is one of the few states doing well.

They have the 4th highest unemployment in the nation.

How about using facts that actually matter rather than cherry picking to make your pitiful case?

LOL! You're too much man! YOU are the idiot who claimed ALL states doing poorly were controlled by Democrats! When I point out the states that doesn't apply to, that's not "cherry picking" - ITS PROVING YOU WRONG DILDOHEAD

 

[The Rabbi]

MI has been controlled by Democrats for years.

That's not even true the Michigan Senate has been controlled by Republicans for over 20 years, but hey, don't let FACTS get in your way!

SoCarolina is one of the few states doing well.

They have the 4th highest unemployment in the nation.

How about using facts that actually matter rather than cherry picking to make your pitiful case?

LOL! You're too much man! YOU are the idiot who claimed ALL states doing poorly were controlled by Democrats! When I point out the states that doesn't apply to, that's not "cherry picking" - ITS PROVING YOU WRONG DILDOHEAD

Dumbshit.
How about the MI House of Representatives? How about the governor?
And we aren't speaking about unemployment but about state budgets. And SoCal is one of the better ones, thanks in part to their GOP governor.
And you've cleverly omitted the basket cases of CA, NJ, NY--all Democratic states.
What a dimwit.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Dumbshit.
How about the MI House of Representatives?

Controlled by Republicans until 2006.

How about the governor?

Michigan had a Republican governor from 1991 until 2003.

And we aren't speaking about unemployment but about state budgets.

OK. Connecticut has the highest per capita deficit and Republican governor.
California is next with a Republican governor.
New Jersey at #4 Minnesota at #7 and Hawaii at #10 also have Republican governors.

Many Eyes: Per Capita State Budget Deficits (2010 Estimates)

And SoCal is one of the better ones, thanks in part to their GOP governor.

Huh? They have the 2nd highest budget deficit per capita in the nation.

And you've cleverly omitted the basket cases of CA, NJ, NY--all Democratic states.

CA and NJ both have Republican governors.

 

[antagon]

MI has been controlled by Democrats for years.

That's not even true the Michigan Senate has been controlled by Republicans for over 20 years, but hey, don't let FACTS get in your way!




They have the 4th highest unemployment in the nation.

How about using facts that actually matter rather than cherry picking to make your pitiful case?

LOL! You're too much man! YOU are the idiot who claimed ALL states doing poorly were controlled by Democrats! When I point out the states that doesn't apply to, that's not "cherry picking" - ITS PROVING YOU WRONG DILDOHEAD

Dumbshit.
How about the MI House of Representatives? How about the governor?
And we aren't speaking about unemployment but about state budgets. And SoCal is one of the better ones, thanks in part to their GOP governor.
And you've cleverly omitted the basket cases of CA, NJ, NY--all Democratic states.
What a dimwit.

youll always be wrong, rabbi, if you want to make republicans out to be economic angels. dont forget, as you let them prod the back of your throat, that republican is a modifier of politician.

 

[The Rabbi]

Dumbshit.
How about the MI House of Representatives?

Controlled by Republicans until 2006.

How about the governor?

Michigan had a Republican governor from 1991 until 2003.




OK. Connecticut has the highest per capita deficit and Republican governor.
California is next with a Republican governor.
New Jersey at #4 Minnesota at #7 and Hawaii at #10 also have Republican governors.

Many Eyes: Per Capita State Budget Deficits (2010 Estimates)

And SoCal is one of the better ones, thanks in part to their GOP governor.

Huh? They have the 2nd highest budget deficit per capita in the nation.

And you've cleverly omitted the basket cases of CA, NJ, NY--all Democratic states.

CA and NJ both have Republican governors.

The GOP governor took office what? Two months ago? The Dums have controlled the Ca legislature for years.
And "per capita" is a shitty metric. But not surprising you would use it since you have nothing else.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Dumbshit.
How about the MI House of Representatives?

Controlled by Republicans until 2006.



Michigan had a Republican governor from 1991 until 2003.




OK. Connecticut has the highest per capita deficit and Republican governor.
California is next with a Republican governor.
New Jersey at #4 Minnesota at #7 and Hawaii at #10 also have Republican governors.

Many Eyes: Per Capita State Budget Deficits (2010 Estimates)






Huh? They have the 2nd highest budget deficit per capita in the nation.

And you've cleverly omitted the basket cases of CA, NJ, NY--all Democratic states.

CA and NJ both have Republican governors.

The GOP governor took office what? Two months ago? The Dums have controlled the Ca legislature for years.

California has had a Republican governor for 16 out of the last 20 years.

Massachusetts, another top 10 state in the list of per capita deficits, has had a Republican governor for 17 out of the last 20 years.

And "per capita" is a shitty metric. But not surprising you would use it since you have nothing else.

You're the one trying to make a claim here. By all means, please describe the metrics that would be acceptable to you, then I will show you that not all states which are bad according to that metric have been controlled by Democrats.

 

[Contumacious]

. Not from "simply being Human," not from God. They're from Man enacted Law. The rights were Alienable before, and we have thousands of years of proof of their alienation.

Of course.

You idol Adolf Hitler found that out and concluded that the Jews did not have a right to life. He also agreed with you that there is no such thing as unalienable rights. Individuals have no rights that can not be taken away by the majority, the gang, the tribe, the Obama administration.........

 

[G.T.]

. Not from "simply being Human," not from God. They're from Man enacted Law. The rights were Alienable before, and we have thousands of years of proof of their alienation.

Of course.

You idol Adolf Hitler found that out and concluded that the Jews did not have a right to life. He also agreed with you that there is no such thing as unalienable rights. Individuals have no rights that can not be taken away by the majority, the gang, the tribe, the Obama administration.........

Adolf Hitler can burn in eternity, and you can just fuck yourself.

 

[G.T.]

. Not from "simply being Human," not from God. They're from Man enacted Law. The rights were Alienable before, and we have thousands of years of proof of their alienation.

Of course.

You idol Adolf Hitler found that out and concluded that the Jews did not have a right to life. He also agreed with you that there is no such thing as unalienable rights. Individuals have no rights that can not be taken away by the majority, the gang, the tribe, the Obama administration.........

BTW, it would help in carrying a conversation if you could act like a grown assed man and stop addressing non-points.

I didn't say we don't have unalienable rights, I simply said that they became unalienable when man declared them as such. I've also said several times in the thread that they should remain and I agree with them.

So #1. Your post saying that I declared there's no such thing as unalienable rights is dumb, sorry. We don't disagree that we have them, we simply disagree with their source.

#2. Invoking Hitler is a pussy assed way out of having a conversation........kinda like admitting you don't have a pot to piss in.

 

[rikules]

You don't have to believe in God to understand that human life has innate value which simply IS. It exists because we're human, regardless of whether one believes we were created that way or evolved that way. We have an "unalienable right" to be human, and not somebody else's beast of burden.

That's what the Philosophy of thinking MEN has gotten us, sure. But it's still because they concluded that, not because of anything else, and that's the point. What makes something "unalienable" besides calling it that? If MEN didn't decide those rights were "unalienable," THEY'D BE ALIENABLE! God wouldn't stop us from alienating them. Nature wouldn't stop us from Alienating them. AND THEY WERE ALIENATED! FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS of HUMAN HISTORY!!

So MEN decided we have inherent Rights, and most Humans like that idea, but the idea of having inherent rights still came from Men but was not "actually" "inherent upon our being." That's whimsical speak. They're not from Nature. Not from "simply being Human," not from God. They're from Man enacted Law. The rights were Alienable before, and we have thousands of years of proof of their alienation.

you have the rights you can defend

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Why do Republicans want to have an uneducated workforce?