Eisenhower's Times

[regent]

Ah, so that's why Republicans nominated and ran Ike for president. Truman could no longer be trusted to follow orders after he sent troops to Korea. So the Republicans and communists looked about for a man they could trust and obey Stalin's orders and nominated Ike. In the end not only was Ike given a fifth star, but also the presidency for following orders. Ike even went to Korea to stop the Americans invasion of peaceful communist Korea and keep to Korea safe from further American aggression. It all is starting to make sense now. And in the end the Republicans were in on the whole plot. It's that fluoridation of water thing, turns brains to putty.

The aim of this thread is to show that Eisenhower was no any more a threat to communists in the government than Truman was.

The fact that you have run from this concept is proof that I am correct.

Yep, I have that power to prove correct or incorrect.

 

[regent]

There is no such thing as a "peaceful communist" country. Communism requires violence.

So what countries have practiced Marxian Communism?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The soldier's view of the war was that the attack on Europe should come via Italy, which had surrendered and was controlled by Mark Clark and the Allies. Stalin, Roosevelt, Harry Hopkins, and George Marshall demanded western France as the attack zone (Stalin wanted Central and Eastern Europe left for occupation by the Red Army).

None of your bull can be taken seriously because you simply ignore fact and persistently promote the ridiculous claim that Italy was controlled by Gen. Clark and allied forces. I have posted details about the war in Italy and if you had read it, or actually knew anything about what you are basing your conspiracy theory on you would know that in planning the invasion of Europe there were those who looked at Italy and a southern strategy and those who looked a France. It took only a short time to understand that there was no such thing as a "soft underbelly" and all thoughts of a southern invasion had to be abandoned. One of your own links explains it and points out that even the biggest proponent of a southern strategy, Churchill, gave up on the idea after the invasion of Italy had proven to be far more costly than the proponents had anticipated.
You continue to insist Gen. Clark "controlled Italy when in fact the allies were forced to fight a slug fest and fight the Germans in a scorched earth campaign of head to head engagements that gave little or no opportunity for maneuver or advantage of overwhelming logistical advantage.
You simply can not admit the facts that crush your outrageous theory of Eisenhower because, well, to admit the facts crushes your conspiracy theory. But when you stand on the stupid assertion that the allies controlled Italy in early June of 1944 is just factually not plausible as a debatable topic and exposes your ridiculousness and purposeful lying to promote a weird conspiracy theory.

Ah....the Roosevelt apologist checks in!

If you are going to be two faced, at least make one of them pretty.

When will you be providing the answers to post #43?



After that you may address Clark, Spaatz, and Eisenhower....all of whom supported exactly what I said....in post #45.



A dunce like you can keep ignoring the facts for just so long.


In short, If you were a swine, you would be what you are now.

 

[regent]

Italy was a meat grinder that could go no place. There was some debate after Sicily as to the value invading Italy and its value was to tie up some German divisions and create a possible threat. I think the Germans would have loved it if we had chosen Italy for a second front. or maybe Finland. Clark also would have loved Italy because he was the biggie in charge.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Italy was a meat grinder that could go no place. There was some debate after Sicily as to the value invading Italy and its value was to tie up some German divisions and create a possible threat. I think the Germans would have loved it if we had chosen Italy for a second front. or maybe Finland. Clark also would have loved Italy because he was the biggie in charge.

Remember how you would suggest that I inform 'historian'?

Well....same advice to you re: Eisenhower.


"Italy was the correct place in which to deploy our main forces and the objective should be the Valle of the PO. In no other area could we so well threaten the whole German structure including France, the Balkans and the Reich itself. Here also our air would be closer to vital objectives in Germany."
Eisenhower, November 26, 1943....

 

[Camp]

PO VALLEY 1945

One of the best short synopsis of the Italian campaign at the beginning of this piece you will ever find. It explains how all the comments made by Ike and others, including Churchill became obsolete and tossed aside once the fighting began and the allied forces realized the Germans did not care about the Italians or their surrender and had decided to turn Italy into a meat grinder and make the allies fight for every foot of ground. It also shows how it took the allies until the spring of 1945 to reach the Valley of the Po and finely force the Germans out of Italy, almost a year after the Normandy Invasion. Dates make a difference in history. Duh

 

[PoliticalChic]

PO VALLEY 1945

One of the best short synopsis of the Italian campaign at the beginning of this piece you will ever find. It explains how all the comments made by Ike and others, including Churchill became obsolete and tossed aside once the fighting began and the allied forces realized the Germans did not care about the Italians or their surrender and had decided to turn Italy into a meat grinder and make the allies fight for every foot of ground. It also shows how it took the allies until the spring of 1945 to reach the Valley of the Po and finely force the Germans out of Italy, almost a year after the Normandy Invasion. Dates make a difference in history. Duh

Post #43 awaits you.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

12. So....did Eisenhower change his view in anticipation of a fifth star?

Even a careful reading of Eisenhower's memoir, "Crusade in Europe." doesn't offer any real explanation of his change of heart, and doesn't say that he was leaned on or offered command and another star to champion Normandy over Italy....but, remember that George Marshall was in charge of Eisenhower's promotions....


...and the following insight comes from Marshall's response to General Ira Eaker, "of the United States Army Air Forces during World War II. Eaker, as second-in-command of the prospective Eighth Air Force,"
Ira C. Eaker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Eaker stated that it would be "easier to support a trans-Adriatic operation than the invasion of southern France.
The bases, he pointed out, had already been established in Italy.....but the southern France operation would have to be supported from new bases in Corsica. After the meeting was over, General Marshall commented ....to General Eaker: "You've been too damned long with the British."
Hanson W. Baldwin, "Great Mistakes of the War," p. 38-39




Seems logical, even evident, that Eisenhower received the same treatment from his boss, Marshall.


BTW....As per Stalin's wishes, Eisenhower halted US forces before they could liberate Berlin, Prague, and Vienna.

Who told him to do that?......
And why do you suppose?

 

[rdean]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Read more at Dwight D. Eisenhower Quotes - BrainyQuote

Great man

Another government school grad checks in.


Of course....nothing to do with the essence of the well constructed OP....

You know I don't read your OPs....

They are like literary diarrhea

I know. Just this one line: Roosevelt was a devotee of Stalin and the Soviets

Turns the DB into a RT. And it calls that "well constructed"????

 

[rdean]

I wonder if that DB thinks NASA and the Interstate Highway System were "wasteful socialistic government programs"?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I wonder if that DB thinks NASA and the Interstate Highway System were "wasteful socialistic government programs"?

1. "I wonder....blah blah blah...."

Full Definition of WONDER
a : a cause of astonishment or admiration : marvel <it's a wonder you weren't killed> <the pyramid is a wonder to behold>
b : miracle
2
: the quality of exciting amazed admiration
3
a : rapt attention or astonishment at something awesomely mysterious or new to one's experience
Wonder - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary




a. Did you really 'wonder'?

Prior to your use of the term, one would have believed that such an emotion required a brain.......

...a condition not in evidence in your case.




2. "....NASA and the Interstate Highway System..."

So...you believe that these are not possible under a socialist or communist government?



Yes, deanie......another well 'thought' out post.



Even stupid people believe you to be stupid.

 

[Camp]

PO VALLEY 1945

One of the best short synopsis of the Italian campaign at the beginning of this piece you will ever find. It explains how all the comments made by Ike and others, including Churchill became obsolete and tossed aside once the fighting began and the allied forces realized the Germans did not care about the Italians or their surrender and had decided to turn Italy into a meat grinder and make the allies fight for every foot of ground. It also shows how it took the allies until the spring of 1945 to reach the Valley of the Po and finely force the Germans out of Italy, almost a year after the Normandy Invasion. Dates make a difference in history. Duh

Post #43 awaits you.....

Your questions are just stupid and can not be debated or discussed to any kind of conclusion. You are using a common method of deflection from the actual factual and provable elements of your conspiracy theory.
Lets look at those questions.
Was FDR mentally unstable? No Did he support genocide No
Did he support Stalin's slaughter No
Was he stupid No
Did he respect the founders Yes

So there are the answers to your stupid loaded questions.
I have repeatedly answered your question about Italy and provided you with lots of links to make my point. What good does it do. You continue to live in this fantasy world where a 19 month string of battles up the Italian peninsula in WWII didn't happen.
What is left? Did FDR give eastern Europe to Stalin as a gift? No, he gave it to Stalin as a gift to western Europe with western Europe's blessing. It was a buffer between the west and the east. Eastern Europe did not have economic or military value to western Europe and the USA. Eastern Europe was seen as a burden. So he let Stalin have the burden.
Finally, Hiss, scholars have been debating him for years. That debate will go on forever unless someday the US declassifies documents to show what some speculate was a counter intelligence effort and operation that makes him an unrecognized hero.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PO VALLEY 1945

One of the best short synopsis of the Italian campaign at the beginning of this piece you will ever find. It explains how all the comments made by Ike and others, including Churchill became obsolete and tossed aside once the fighting began and the allied forces realized the Germans did not care about the Italians or their surrender and had decided to turn Italy into a meat grinder and make the allies fight for every foot of ground. It also shows how it took the allies until the spring of 1945 to reach the Valley of the Po and finely force the Germans out of Italy, almost a year after the Normandy Invasion. Dates make a difference in history. Duh

Post #43 awaits you.....

Your questions are just stupid and can not be debated or discussed to any kind of conclusion. You are using a common method of deflection from the actual factual and provable elements of your conspiracy theory.
Lets look at those questions.
Was FDR mentally unstable? No Did he support genocide No
Did he support Stalin's slaughter No
Was he stupid No
Did he respect the founders Yes

So there are the answers to your stupid loaded questions.
I have repeatedly answered your question about Italy and provided you with lots of links to make my point. What good does it do. You continue to live in this fantasy world where a 19 month string of battles up the Italian peninsula in WWII didn't happen.
What is left? Did FDR give eastern Europe to Stalin as a gift? No, he gave it to Stalin as a gift to western Europe with western Europe's blessing. It was a buffer between the west and the east. Eastern Europe did not have economic or military value to western Europe and the USA. Eastern Europe was seen as a burden. So he let Stalin have the burden.
Finally, Hiss, scholars have been debating him for years. That debate will go on forever unless someday the US declassifies documents to show what some speculate was a counter intelligence effort and operation that makes him an unrecognized hero.

I would be happy to grade your responses....

...but I need context: are your errors lies or based on ignorance?


Please advise.

 

[longknife]

Getting back to Ike.

He was more of an administrator/politician than a strategist. His one goal was to stay even with Montgomery who kept coming up with grandiose schemes that never worked - i.e., Operation Market Garden.

It was Bradley that kept pushing for the main attack to be through Italy. De Gaulle put enough pressure on to change the direction to France.

And, the most brilliant soldier/leader of the war was Patton who was constantly kept in check for political purposes. Without the limitations, he could've led American troops to the eastern border of Poland, thereby doing away with the entire Cold War.

Ike, pushed by Washington, put Bradley over Patton to keep him from being too successful.

The only other true soldier/leader of WWII was MacArthur. Even though they called him Dugout Dug, he came up with some truly brilliant strategies.

 

[Unkotare]

Was FDR mentally unstable? No
Did he respect the founders Yes

Would you consider George Washington one of the founders? He established a precedent of serving no more than two terms as President that became a tradition by those who "respected the founders."

Does your reading of the Constitution suggest support by the founders for depriving innocent American citizens of life, liberty, and property without due process? Do you think the founders built a separation of powers into the Constitution so that one man in one branch of government could accumulate all power unto himself, turning the legislature into a rubber stamp and intimidating the highest court into compliance via threats? Do you think that's what the founders had in mind after throwing off the yolk of an unjust monarchy?

Yeah, so much respect there...

 

[rdean]

I wonder if that DB thinks NASA and the Interstate Highway System were "wasteful socialistic government programs"?

1. "I wonder....blah blah blah...."

(Couldn't answer the question?)

Full Definition of WONDER
a : a cause of astonishment or admiration : marvel <it's a wonder you weren't killed> <the pyramid is a wonder to behold>
b : miracle
2
: the quality of exciting amazed admiration
3
a : rapt attention or astonishment at something awesomely mysterious or new to one's experience
Wonder - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary




a. Did you really 'wonder'?

Prior to your use of the term, one would have believed that such an emotion required a brain.......

...a condition not in evidence in your case.




2. "....NASA and the Interstate Highway System..."

So...you believe that these are not possible under a socialist or communist government?

(Maybe possible. But not the same quality as here. Try to figure out why DB.)

Yes, deanie......another well 'thought' out post.



Even stupid people believe you to be stupid.

Did you just call yourself "stupid"? Finally, something we can agree.....................

 

[Camp]

Was FDR mentally unstable? No
Did he respect the founders Yes

Would you consider George Washington one of the founders? He established a precedent of serving no more than two terms as President that became a tradition by those who "respected the founders."

Does your reading of the Constitution suggest support by the founders for depriving innocent American citizens of life, liberty, and property without due process? Do you think the founders built a separation of powers into the Constitution so that one man in one branch of government could accumulate all power unto himself, turning the legislature into a rubber stamp and intimidating the highest court into compliance via threats? Do you think that's what the founders had in mind after throwing off the yolk of an unjust monarchy?

Yeah, so much respect there...

It's deflection. There is no possible way to answer such questions without the use of opinion and speculation. Hence, it is a never ending debate with no certain specific answer. It deflects from making provable conclusions that a conspiracy theory is based on, such as Eisenhower having ulterior motives for the Normandy Invasion.

The allegation is based on the erroneous conclusions that the Italian campaign was meeting with success, which had to be successful for a southern strategy to be realistically considered. The whole conspiracy theory is based on the assertion that a southern strategy was not attempted, or attempted and succeeded and ignores the reality that a southern invasion and strategy was attempted and failed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I wonder if that DB thinks NASA and the Interstate Highway System were "wasteful socialistic government programs"?

1. "I wonder....blah blah blah...."

(Couldn't answer the question?)

Full Definition of WONDER
a : a cause of astonishment or admiration : marvel <it's a wonder you weren't killed> <the pyramid is a wonder to behold>
b : miracle
2
: the quality of exciting amazed admiration
3
a : rapt attention or astonishment at something awesomely mysterious or new to one's experience
Wonder - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary




a. Did you really 'wonder'?

Prior to your use of the term, one would have believed that such an emotion required a brain.......

...a condition not in evidence in your case.




2. "....NASA and the Interstate Highway System..."

So...you believe that these are not possible under a socialist or communist government?

(Maybe possible. But not the same quality as here. Try to figure out why DB.)

Yes, deanie......another well 'thought' out post.



Even stupid people believe you to be stupid.

Did you just call yourself "stupid"? Finally, something we can agree.....................

My mistake, deanie.....

...You've convinced me.


You're brilliant.


What did it was how cleverly you picked apart the OP.....

...you know, the OP.....to which you are ostensibly responding?

 

[Unkotare]

Was FDR mentally unstable? No
Did he respect the founders Yes

Would you consider George Washington one of the founders? He established a precedent of serving no more than two terms as President that became a tradition by those who "respected the founders."

Does your reading of the Constitution suggest support by the founders for depriving innocent American citizens of life, liberty, and property without due process? Do you think the founders built a separation of powers into the Constitution so that one man in one branch of government could accumulate all power unto himself, turning the legislature into a rubber stamp and intimidating the highest court into compliance via threats? Do you think that's what the founders had in mind after throwing off the yolk of an unjust monarchy?

Yeah, so much respect there...

It's deflection.

It very directly addresses your own words and puts the lie to your conclusion.

 

[Camp]

Would you consider George Washington one of the founders? He established a precedent of serving no more than two terms as President that became a tradition by those who "respected the founders."

Does your reading of the Constitution suggest support by the founders for depriving innocent American citizens of life, liberty, and property without due process? Do you think the founders built a separation of powers into the Constitution so that one man in one branch of government could accumulate all power unto himself, turning the legislature into a rubber stamp and intimidating the highest court into compliance via threats? Do you think that's what the founders had in mind after throwing off the yolk of an unjust monarchy?

Yeah, so much respect there...

It's deflection.

It very directly addresses your own words and puts the lie to your conclusion.

Really asshole, I'm a liar because I say FDR respected the founders and you disagree and think he didn't? You think way to highly of yourself. You know you're in the history forum right? This is the exact reason I didn't address the stupid ass questions to start with. If you are so fucking smart how about addressing the question about the Italian campaign and the dumb ass assertions made by the OP. Oh wait, that would require the use of facts and being able to prove stuff that can be either proved or thrown into the trash bin. Better stick to the theory crap where you can use imagination and speculation in place of factual data.