Elizabeth Warren: 'End Electoral College'

[M14 Shooter]

Nonsense. They tried to delegitimize the 2000 election. As I pointed out, Katherine Harris refused to accept returns filed after a week following the election, even though she didn’t have to. Then there were the mobs of GOP operatives, paid to disrupt the recounts. Hoping to at least stall the recounts if not end them entirely.

The whole thing was a partisan farce. They were making it up as they went along

The FL supreme court? You betcha they did -- they did everything they could to get Gore the win.
Too bad for the rule of law, eh?

 

[Lesh]

If we went to a popular vote, the needs of Montana would be completely ignored by populist demagogues who would only campaign in urban centers.

That's why.

I tried to explain this earlier. There's lots that I disagree with g5000 about. This is not one of those things. Had we not included an EC...rural states would not have joined the Union. Had they joined...they would have soon left.

Do away with the EC and you open THAT mess up again and we do not want a "balkanized" nation

 

[Papageorgio]

Amen! I couldn't agree more! Elections should be about people - not acreage! BTW, the rest of the link is worth reading.

All you need to do is amend the constitution.
Good luck!

You make it sound like going to the moon. Oh, wait....
The Constitution has already been amended 27 times. Well, 17 if you take out the Bill of Rights. It is certainly not impossible.

You need strong support for the amendment to get passed. I don't think the House or Senate would pass an amendment with two-thirds majority. And I don't see 38 states ratifying the amendment.

 

[Faun]

It was also apparently weird that Florida had to certify its election returns by the deadline set by Florida law. Shocking!

florida Law demands a full recount. Republicans dragged that out as long as possible and only THEN demanded that the deadline be held. There was no pressing need to enforce that deadline. There WAS a pressing need to follow the law and do the full recount.

So we can all be on the same page...

The first recount requested by the Democrats was for only 4 Counties, not the entire state. (Dade, Broward, Palm Beach and Volusia).

After countless failures, the Florida Supreme Court gave Al Gore a statewide recount he didn't even ask for.

At the same time, the Florida Legislature announced that if the recount was not completed by a certain date, (I forget the date). They would
pick who got Florida's 25 electoral votes, in accordance with Florida Law, so as not to deprive the State of having their citizens not participate
in the election process.

The full recount began and it was SCOTUS that ordered a "stay." (Halting all voting)

SCOTUS had two rulings. The first was a 5-4 ruling that it was a violation of the equal protection clause, because Counties were not counting
the same way. The second ruling was, because of the Florida Legislature following Florida Law, there would not be enough time to complete
the hand recount and the counting had to stop.

In the end the State's newspapers sued under the Florida Sunshine Laws and they conducted their own recount and W won that one also.

Wrong. The first recount was a statewide mandatory machine recount, triggered because the election margin was less than half of one percent.

The Florida legislation did not state they would certify the election by a certain date. The person who said that was the Secretary of State of Florida who was appointed by George Bush’s brother. And it was her discretion whether or not to accept late filings. The law at the time read that returns had to be filed within a week after the election, otherwise “such returns may be ignored.” She decided securing her governor’s brother’s election was more important than an accurate count of the votes.

The Supreme Court ruling was a joke, as evidenced by them declaring that would be a “one-time” ruling, never to set any sort of precedence. And basically invalidated any form of recount in any state where multiple methods of voting are used; which is most states.

The first recount demanded by the Democrats was for four counties.

The State Legislature was in its rights to determine the outcome.

Here...read...What if the Supreme Court Had Turned Down Bush v. Gore? (Redux)

Again, it wasn’t the state’s legislature — it was Katherine Harris, Florida’s Secretary of State at the time. And it was up to her discretion whether or not to accept late returns...

The 2000 Florida Statutes

102.112 Deadline for submission of county returns to the Department

(1) The county canvassing board or a majority thereof shall file the county returns for the election of a federal or state officer with the Department of State immediately after certification of the election results. Returns must be filed by 5 p.m. on the 7th day following the first primary and general election and by 3 p.m. on the 3rd day following the second primary. If the returns are not received by the department by the time specified, such returns may be ignored and the results on file at that time may be certified by the department.​

Apparently, disenfranchising the electorate was more important than determining who was the rightful winner.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I know! Ruling that Florida should recount according to Florida law.
Strange.

Oddly that is the OPPOSITE of what they ruled. Florida law requires a full recount if the vote is within a certain percent. It was WELL under that and the SC ruled to STOP he recount.

Oh...

Oddly that is the OPPOSITE of what they ruled. Florida law requires a full recount if the vote is within a certain percent.

Why don't you post their ruling? I'll highlight your error in thinking.

 

[22lcidw]

Nonsense. They tried to delegitimize the 2000 election. As I pointed out, Katherine Harris refused to accept returns filed after a week following the election, even though she didn’t have to. Then there were the mobs of GOP operatives, paid to disrupt the recounts. Hoping to at least stall the recounts if not end them entirely.

The whole thing was a partisan farce. They were making it up as they went along

The FL supreme court? You betcha they did -- they did everything they could to get Gore the win.
Too bad for the rule of law, eh?

Yep, they went into the bowels of the three deep blue counties to find every vote they could. They even called Florida for Bush earlier in the evening as the central time zone heavily Republican panhandle was still voting. So thousands did not vote.

 

[g5000]

I believe the EC should stay, for good reason.

The race for the Presidency is like a World Series. It's not a single match. It's a race of endurance. It should be as grueling as possible. Our President is the leader of the Free World and will be tested every single day on the job in a limitless number of ways.

And we need to know that person has heard EVERY voice in America, not just the same voices in all our urban centers. They need to hear the farmers and the miners and the traders and the poor and the rich and the blue collars and the white collars and every race and creed.

This isn't a bowling tournament. This is a World Series. Best out of a SERIES of matches all round the country.

Every once in a while, a team scores the most points in a World Series but still loses the series because they ran out of steam. Like the 1960 World Series. The Yankees scored 55 runs in that series. That's the most runs scored by a team in the World Series ever. To this day, that is the record.

But the Yankees still lost the Series. Because they ran out of steam.

We can't afford a President who will run out of steam.

Face it, folks. Hillary lost because she ran out of steam. She never even visited Wisconsin.

She just isn't up to the job.

 

[Lesh]

Hillary should have spent more time in those states.

Bingo.

Clinton took those states for granted. She never even visited Wisconsin. Not even once.

So those states responded accordingly with a big "FUCK YOU" to Hillary.

Clinton phoned in her campaign. As much as I hate Trump, he expended a hundred times more energy on the campaign than Clinton did. Easily a hundred times more energy.

Trump worked hard to win. Clinton coasted on assumptions.

As noted, there are many things that g5000 and I disagree on and this is one of them

Clinton’s Ground Game Didn’t Cost Her The Election

There are several major problems with the idea that Clinton’s Electoral College tactics cost her the election. For one thing, winning Wisconsin and Michigan — states that Clinton is rightly accused of ignoring — would not have sufficed to win her the Electoral College. She’d also have needed Pennsylvania, Florida or another state where she campaigned extensively. For another, Clinton spent almost twice as much money as Trump on her campaign in total. So even if she devoted a smaller share of her budget to a particular state or a particular activity, it may nonetheless have amounted to more resources overall (5 percent of a $969 million budget is more than 8 percent of a $531 million one).

The election came down to Comey. That letter days before the election was not only bogus but the biggest October Surprise in history

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

#1) Deport all illegals

#2) Build the wall

#3) Balance the Budget

#4) Do 1-3 and we can abolish the EC.

 

[g5000]

Hillary should have spent more time in those states.

Bingo.

Clinton took those states for granted. She never even visited Wisconsin. Not even once.

So those states responded accordingly with a big "FUCK YOU" to Hillary.

Clinton phoned in her campaign. As much as I hate Trump, he expended a hundred times more energy on the campaign than Clinton did. Easily a hundred times more energy.

Trump worked hard to win. Clinton coasted on assumptions.

As noted, there are many things that g5000 and I disagree on and this is one of them

There are several major problems with the idea that Clinton’s Electoral College tactics cost her the election. For one thing, winning Wisconsin and Michigan — states that Clinton is rightly accused of ignoring — would not have sufficed to win her the Electoral College. She’d also have needed Pennsylvania, Florida or another state where she campaigned extensively. For another, Clinton spent almost twice as much money as Trump on her campaign in total. So even if she devoted a smaller share of her budget to a particular state or a particular activity, it may nonetheless have amounted to more resources overall (5 percent of a $969 million budget is more than 8 percent of a $531 million one).

The election came down to Comey. That letter days before the election was not only bogus but the biggest October Surprise in history

Comey certainly did a lot of damage to Clinton. I do not disagree.

However, even with all the press coverage given to Clinton, it was obvious that while she might have been spending more than Trump, she was not making as many public appearances. She was not drawing the same crowds as Trump.

I bet if someone tallied all their public appearances, Trump would tally far, far higher than Clinton. Clinton was almost reclusive.

This was about energy, and Clinton didn't have it.

 

[Faun]

Nonsense. They tried to delegitimize the 2000 election. As I pointed out, Katherine Harris refused to accept returns filed after a week following the election, even though she didn’t have to. Then there were the mobs of GOP operatives, paid to disrupt the recounts. Hoping to at least stall the recounts if not end them entirely.

The whole thing was a partisan farce. They were making it up as they went along

The FL supreme court? You betcha they did -- they did everything they could to get Gore the win.
Too bad for the rule of law, eh?

Yep, they went into the bowels of the three deep blue counties to find every vote they could. They even called Florida for Bush earlier in the evening as the central time zone heavily Republican panhandle was still voting. So thousands did not vote.

And by “earlier in the evening,” you mean 10 minutes before the polls closed.

 

[OldLady]

Won't happen.
Thread is another exercise in futility.

I have a feeling if the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would be looking at this differently.

I have a feeling you only think that because YOUR principles are selfish and subjective, and you assume everyone is like you. Don't project.

Okay, maybe I'm wrong.

More than maybe. It's not like Democrats haven't won in recent history, and I have yet to see concerted efforts among Republicans to invalidate and delegitimize those elections. Disagree with and oppose policies, sure. Delegitimize, no.

Really? Poliquin just did in Maine.

 

[dudmuck]

#1) Deport all illegals

#2) Build the wall

#3) Balance the Budget

#4) Do 1-3 and we can abolish the EC.

All those things are orthogonal with each other.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Presidential elections should be based on people - not acres.

What is that, the new Democrat bumper sticker, or just the latest talking point memo?

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
All those things are orthogonal with each other.

You must not be aware of the fact CA and WY have the exact same representation in the EC as they do in Congress.
Tell us how it is time to abolish Congress.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It was also apparently weird that Florida had to certify its election returns by the deadline set by Florida law. Shocking!

florida Law demands a full recount. Republicans dragged that out as long as possible and only THEN demanded that the deadline be held. There was no pressing need to enforce that deadline. There WAS a pressing need to follow the law and do the full recount.

They are the ones who make this nation great, rural farmers live off the subsidies paid by the urban hard working, open minded diverse citizens....the fucks who are sitting in their farm receiving our money don't like us minorities and whites who are open minded.
disclaimer: not all farmers but most.

We need to stop that. We have a symbiotic relationship. Farmers need cites as much as cities need farmers. We are ALL Americans and we need to stop this divisive bullshit. Yea there are ignorant people on both sides. Don't be one of them

florida Law demands a full recount.

Did they do a full recount?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Won't happen.
Thread is another exercise in futility.

I have a feeling if the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would be looking at this differently.

I have a feeling you only think that because YOUR principles are selfish and subjective, and you assume everyone is like you. Don't project.

Okay, maybe I'm wrong.

More than maybe. It's not like Democrats haven't won in recent history, and I have yet to see concerted efforts among Republicans to invalidate and delegitimize those elections. Disagree with and oppose policies, sure. Delegitimize, no.

Nonsense. They tried to delegitimize the 2000 election. As I pointed out, Katherine Harris refused to accept returns filed after a week following the election, even though she didn’t have to. Then there were the mobs of GOP operatives, paid to disrupt the recounts. Hoping to at least stall the recounts if not end them entirely.

There's a difference between opposing the result you wanted, and delegitimizing the election. Katherine Harris followed the law as written, however much it wasn't how you wanted things to be. The GOP also demanded that the law be followed as written, however much it "disrupted" your attempts to make things the way you wanted them.

 

[Markle]

You make it sound like going to the moon. Oh, wait....
The Constitution has already been amended 27 times. Well, 17 if you take out the Bill of Rights. It is certainly not impossible.

Yes, impossible. Thirty-eight states would have to ratify the amendment effectively rendering their states mute regarding who is runs the country. Do you really think that's possible?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nonsense. They tried to delegitimize the 2000 election. As I pointed out, Katherine Harris refused to accept returns filed after a week following the election, even though she didn’t have to. Then there were the mobs of GOP operatives, paid to disrupt the recounts. Hoping to at least stall the recounts if not end them entirely.

The whole thing was a partisan farce. They were making it up as they went along

The Florida election recount of 2000 was a period of vote recounting in Florida that occurred during the weeks after Election Day in the 2000 United States presidential election between George W. Bush and Al Gore. The Florida vote was ultimately settled in Bush's favor by a margin of 537 votes when the U.S. Supreme Court, in Bush v. Gore, stopped a recount that had been initiated upon a ruling by the Florida Supreme Court. That in turn gave Bush a majority of votes in the Electoral College and victory in the presidential election.[1]

And under every recount scheme, Bush still won.

 

[Rustic]

Well there seems to be the drumbeat of that again...

Getting rid of electoral college means rural America might as well not even vote, They would lose every single election.

States like California or Florida Texas and New York would dominate everything in this country…

There is a reason why they call this a republic not a shit eating democracy...