Elizabeth Warren: 'End Electoral College'

[Issa]

I agree. I always thought america was a democracy...but when Bush Jr got elected we the citizens of the world were shocked. And that's when we found about the electoral college. It really gives the power to the crazy minority and that's why we have trump and his crazies....the US should join the democratic countries and abolish the EC.

That is your mistake because UNITED States of America has never been a Democracy and the President has been elected with the Electoral College all this time.

Funny how no one complained when Clinton and Obama won it twice but when Gore and Hillary lost all of a sudden it is a bad system.

No matter what my opinion of Trump the fact is the Electoral College is a great system that allow the smaller states in our REPUBLIC to have a voice...

They point being dumbass...that Clinton and Obama won BOTH the popular vote and the electoral vote.

Bush the Lesser and Trump both LOST the popular vote...negating the will of the people.

"No matter what my opinion of Trump the fact is the Electoral College is a great system that allow the smaller states in our REPUBLIC to have a voice"

The fact is the EC is a FLAWED system that allowed smaller states an OUTSIZED voice in our NATION'S Presidential election and Supreme Court as a result

No, that's not true.

If you add NY and Cali together, they had (in the 2016 election) 84 electoral votes.

https://state.1keydata.com/state-electoral-votes.php

The lowest 9 populated states collectively had 28 electoral votes.

So how do you feel these lower populated states are overpowering the most populated states? Do you know how many lower populated states it would take to equal just NY and Cali yet alone overpower them? I don't have time right now to do all the math, but here is a list of states according to population, and combine that with the electoral votes those states get with the link above. If you have the time to add all this up, let me know how many of the lower populated states it takes to equal the two most populated. Edit: I count 19. To exceed their combined EC votes by just one, I count 20 states.

List of states and territories of the United States by population - Wikipedia

I'd say states have a s

I agree. I always thought america was a democracy...but when Bush Jr got elected we the citizens of the world were shocked. And that's when we found about the electoral college. It really gives the power to the crazy minority and that's why we have trump and his crazies....the US should join the democratic countries and abolish the EC.

Interesting concept...you want the US...with one of the longest standing democracies in world history to change the system that's given us that stability to mirror the rest of the world that sees coups and civil unrest as a matter of course? I'm guessing you don't have the faintest idea WHY the Electoral College was instituted in the first place...do you, Issa?

The US is not a democracy.

The US is a democracy...we choose to operate that democracy as a constitutional republic...which is a blend of power derived from democratic processes...power held by elected officials...and power held by a court system.

My point remains...do you really think the US should scrap a system that has worked for hundreds of years simply because the candidate you wanted didn't get elected in a Presidential race?

Worked likes shit, with the likes of Bush and trump two crazies voted in by the dumbest minority.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes let's have Mexifornia elect Democratic Presidents for the next 50 years. That is the Liberal wet dream of abolishing the E.C.

Why are you against the rule of the majority ?
We used that method in the Senate, Congress supreme court the X factor you name it.
And btw California is the biggest economy and best state of the union, Alabama, Mississippi, north Dakota, etc....are is less states.

If we had democracy and majority (mob) rule, than why do we need Congress and Senate?

You realize your statement is redundant. The Senate is part of the Congress. Back to high school civics with you!

 

[Oldstyle]

I agree. I always thought america was a democracy...but when Bush Jr got elected we the citizens of the world were shocked. And that's when we found about the electoral college. It really gives the power to the crazy minority and that's why we have trump and his crazies....the US should join the democratic countries and abolish the EC.

That is your mistake because UNITED States of America has never been a Democracy and the President has been elected with the Electoral College all this time.

Funny how no one complained when Clinton and Obama won it twice but when Gore and Hillary lost all of a sudden it is a bad system.

No matter what my opinion of Trump the fact is the Electoral College is a great system that allow the smaller states in our REPUBLIC to have a voice...

They point being dumbass...that Clinton and Obama won BOTH the popular vote and the electoral vote.

Bush the Lesser and Trump both LOST the popular vote...negating the will of the people.

"No matter what my opinion of Trump the fact is the Electoral College is a great system that allow the smaller states in our REPUBLIC to have a voice"

The fact is the EC is a FLAWED system that allowed smaller states an OUTSIZED voice in our NATION'S Presidential election and Supreme Court as a result

No, that's not true.

If you add NY and Cali together, they had (in the 2016 election) 84 electoral votes.

https://state.1keydata.com/state-electoral-votes.php

The lowest 9 populated states collectively had 28 electoral votes.

So how do you feel these lower populated states are overpowering the most populated states? Do you know how many lower populated states it would take to equal just NY and Cali yet alone overpower them? I don't have time right now to do all the math, but here is a list of states according to population, and combine that with the electoral votes those states get with the link above. If you have the time to add all this up, let me know how many of the lower populated states it takes to equal the two most populated. Edit: I count 19. To exceed their combined EC votes by just one, I count 20 states.

List of states and territories of the United States by population - Wikipedia

I'd say states have a s

I agree. I always thought america was a democracy...but when Bush Jr got elected we the citizens of the world were shocked. And that's when we found about the electoral college. It really gives the power to the crazy minority and that's why we have trump and his crazies....the US should join the democratic countries and abolish the EC.

Interesting concept...you want the US...with one of the longest standing democracies in world history to change the system that's given us that stability to mirror the rest of the world that sees coups and civil unrest as a matter of course? I'm guessing you don't have the faintest idea WHY the Electoral College was instituted in the first place...do you, Issa?

The US is not a democracy.

The US is a democracy...we choose to operate that democracy as a constitutional republic...which is a blend of power derived from democratic processes...power held by elected officials...and power held by a court system.

My point remains...do you really think the US should scrap a system that has worked for hundreds of years simply because the candidate you wanted didn't get elected in a Presidential race?

Worked likes shit, with the likes of Bush and trump two crazies voted in by the dumbest minority.

It was "dumb" to prefer Trump over Hillary Clinton? I hate to point out the obvious here, Issa but the left ran an odious candidate who managed to be corrupt, incompetent and seemed to feel entitled to the Oval Office simply because she was a woman. Trump wasn't elected because voters were dumb...he was elected because he was a better candidate than the other person on the ballot!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You should learn to write, dumbass!

You said 1992. If you meant 1988 you should have said so. What a fucking moron!

HEY JACKASS. I DID SAY SO. LEARN TO FUCKING READ. THEN SHUT THE HELL UP, PINHEAD. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN THAT EVEN A DOLT LIKE YOU WILL GET IT:

Lessee: California and New York have voted Blue since 1992. That is 31 years since they elected a republican.

The number you used was 1992, true or false?

Moron!

You are so stupid you don't even realize you are stupid!

What's scary is that you claim to have a masters degree and educate our children.

No. What is really scary is that you are spreading stupid like it was fertilizer. Why can't you man up and admit you fucked up and salvage a little self respect?

Jesus, dumbass. You're so blind drunk with stupidity, you couldn't handle a simple arithmetic problem even after I spelled it out in plain English twice! So damned stupid you can't even read english that my math was ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT RIGHT that you're still after me to admit I was wrong apparently claiming that 27 + 4 DOESN'T equal 31! Go! Moron, Go! Master fucking degree MY ASS. Master ass picker you are.

Wow! I am impressed! You are working so hard to prove to the rest of the board that you flunked elementary math!

Then to make matters worse, you try to defend the indefensible!

Got any more words of profanity or personal attacks to throw at me, while the rest of board laughs at your sorry excuses?

 

[toobfreak]

HEY JACKASS. I DID SAY SO. LEARN TO FUCKING READ. THEN SHUT THE HELL UP, PINHEAD. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN THAT EVEN A DOLT LIKE YOU WILL GET IT:

Lessee: California and New York have voted Blue since 1992. That is 31 years since they elected a republican.

The number you used was 1992, true or false?

Moron!

You are so stupid you don't even realize you are stupid!

What's scary is that you claim to have a masters degree and educate our children.

No. What is really scary is that you are spreading stupid like it was fertilizer. Why can't you man up and admit you fucked up and salvage a little self respect?

Jesus, dumbass. You're so blind drunk with stupidity, you couldn't handle a simple arithmetic problem even after I spelled it out in plain English twice! So damned stupid you can't even read english that my math was ONE HUNDRED FUCKING PERCENT RIGHT that you're still after me to admit I was wrong apparently claiming that 27 + 4 DOESN'T equal 31! Go! Moron, Go! Master fucking degree MY ASS. Master ass picker you are.

Wow! I am impressed! You are working so hard to prove to the rest of the board that you flunked elementary math!

Then to make matters worse, you try to defend the indefensible!

Got any more words of profanity or personal attacks to throw at me, while the rest of board laughs at your sorry excuses?

Sure, jackass! If you are so smart, PROVE IT. Talk is cheap, fuckhead. POST the fucking post where I made the math error including the post number so we can all go back and verify it. SHOW us where I'm wrong. LAY OUT YOUR EVIDENCE. I've already reprinted my statement in question in bold text and STILL you crawl like a dog with lots of talk and smarmy accusations but with no backing. Why is it you're the only one who apparently caught my great math error? So if you're right, if 27+4 doesn't equal 31, prove it. SHOW US the GREAT ERROR I made in math that is so damned important to you as a MASTERS IN EDUCATION that you've made it a big fucking issue for more than ten posts now! I'm waiting, shithead. Bet you any money that you never follow through, because we all know you're a fucking liar. Then I'll test YOUR math. BTW, moron, I used to tutor people in trig and calculus. Hope you're up to it.

 

[August West]

Why should a vote in Montana be worth more than a vote in Pennsylvania?

The nations elections should not be decided by America's urban centres, run by party hacks.

In other words, our elections should not be decided by voters. Just say it man! "Party hacks", whatever the hell that`s supposed to be should have just as much say in who wins an election as the toothless redneck who cooks meth in his trailer in West Virginia.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'd say states have a s

One more time. I think you fell asleep when you made that comment.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why are you against the rule of the majority ?
We used that method in the Senate, Congress supreme court the X factor you name it.
And btw California is the biggest economy and best state of the union, Alabama, Mississippi, north Dakota, etc....are is less states.

Our corrupt and dying cities are rife with voter fraud and intimidation. The healthy part of our country doesn't want to be ruled by the diseased part and that's exactly what abolishing the electoral college would do.

California had it's hay day when Ronald Reagan was Governor and California has been downhill ever since.

How is that ? California has the biggest e onomy and outpaced the national GDP .

California is the most populous state, so they should have the largest economy in the United States, California has the largest debt of any state. California has the largest welfare payout at $98.5 billion. California has more people on SNAP than any other state at 4.1 million.

It's really all for not because it seems money is your primary motivation for most everything. We do know that you do not know how American government works. You also have no respect for Americans unless they agree with your greedy myopic view.

You also failed to mentioned that California employs more Americans more than any state.
California is home to not only immigrants from overseas but also from other states.
I've lived here for 20 years and I cant come across too many adults who were born in California.
People leave their failed states to make it in the state that you hate so much.
Calofornia like most liberal states keep the US relevant on world stage (tehomology, innovation, research, industry, higher education, mega companies, etc...)

O do love respectful Americans, I dont like the trump ******, the racists, the bigots and sorry if you have a problem with that.

California is popular for the same reason most states in the south are. You have the weather. Do you think people moved to California because they love to pay high taxes so much?

 

[Pilot1]

Why should a vote in Montana be worth more than a vote in Pennsylvania?

The nations elections should not be decided by America's urban centres, run by party hacks.

In other words, our elections should not be decided by voters. Just say it man! "Party hacks", whatever the hell that`s supposed to be should have just as much say in who wins an election as the toothless redneck who cooks meth in his trailer in West Virginia.

A State's Electoral Votes depend on POPULATION. More people, more EC Votes. The candidate that wins the POPULAR VOTE in that State gets the Electoral Votes. So your vote matters in each state to assign the Electoral Votes. That is the system our Republic chose to elect Presidents as the STATES ELECT PRESIDENTS, not People.

How many times do we have to tell you? Stop making the same wrong statements and wrong questions over and over. It makes you look ignorant.

 

[Ambivalent1]

What “safeguard” would be stripped away? Explain

The power distribution imbalance of the EC was intentional. It was a compromise to convince less populated, rural states to join the union. It gives them some protection against being ignored by the federal government. If, as happened in 2016, the rural areas feel dismissed by the urban "elites" - the EC gives them a little extra power to push back.

I understand why the Democrats want to end the EC. They were spanked by it. But they were spanked for good reason. They were dismissing, disrespecting and arguably attacking the lives of rural voters. Despite my disgust with Trump, the EC worked as designed. It's an important safeguard, regardless of the party in power.

If Hillary won the presidency and Trump won the popular vote, they wouldn't' even be having this discussion.

BULL SHIT.

Number one that election was over two years ago and number two it LOOOOOOOOONG predates that election anyway. Two hundred years.

Why is it y'all keep leaning on this crutch of trying to make it about political parties and a specific election?

What you have there is a speculation fallacy, and an easily debunked one.

As far as the left is concerned, all their issues or concerns that are stopped by the Constitution is because (in their opinion) the Constitution is outdated and not applicable for modern times. Therefore it should be changed at the will of liberals and not the amendment process that our founders created for such changes.

The Founders *WERE* Liberals. Liberalism is the whole POINT of the Constitution.

Moreover you just conflated "Liberals" with "the left". PICK one.

OH look, more silly word games

The Founders" were Liberals? Sooooooooooooooooooooo since "Liberals" recognized that our "Rights" inalienable and a gift from God......and since "Liberals" ensconced our "Rights" to gun ownership.... and our "Right" to practice or not our Religion….and the "Right" to free speech.....the "Right" to privacy and so on why are TODAY'S "Liberals" working so hard to take it all away and change the rules.

You should have seen this coming kid, you're just another elf inflated kid trying to pretend to be "smart" on the internet.

 

[Pilot1]

Liberals aren't "LIBERAL" anymore. They have become Totalitarian Communists. Oh, of course, they won't admit that, but look at all their policies. Wealth and INCOME redistribution, more government control of every facet of society, disarmament of the law abiding to make them more vulnerable to government over reach and abuse.. Illegal aliens voting, Open Borders. More taxes and economic disaster caused by their response to the hoax of man made climate change.

The list is endless.

 

[Flash]

The filthy ass Democrats can't win with the rules set down in the Constitution so they want to change the rules.

This Moon Bat zeal to make the US a socialist shithole so the sorry assholes can use the government to steal is getting out of hand.

 

[Lesh]

Please elaborate. How would a state with three electoral votes have the same power as a state with 55?

The VOTERS in those states would all have exactly the same power. In fact MORE since a Republicans in blue states would then have a vote that matters as would Dem voters in Wyoming etc.

 

[fncceo]

the toothless redneck who cooks meth in his trailer in West Virginia.

Hey! I live in a really nice trailer.

 

[22lcidw]

Please elaborate. How would a state with three electoral votes have the same power as a state with 55?

The VOTERS in those states would all have exactly the same power. In fact MORE since a Republicans in blue states would then have a vote that matters as would Dem voters in Wyoming etc.

Sure it will!

 

[Ame®icano]

As the OP states: "Trump is the fifth United States president to have taken office without winning the national popular vote."

Here are the FIVE presidents who did not win the national popular vote:

• John Quincy Adams
• Rutherford B. Hayes
• Benjamin Harrison
• George W. Bush
• Donald Trump

United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote - Wikipedia

5 out of 44....

scary

Winning popular vote means having half of votes plus one. Right?

If so, we could add few more to that list.

 

[Ame®icano]

A pure popular vote = mob rule

Stupid fucking Rabbit!

For the last month, I've struggled over the question of the Electoral Collage and its relevance today. I had to argue with myself about my long unwavering support of sustaining the EC based on 'Originality' grounds before my epiphany that the EC was part of the balancing compromise over representation for the lower populated white man dominated slave states.

The slave states are no longer holding slaves, and the 14th Amendment granted all former slaves citizenship...the first anchor babies for you knuckle dragging types...therefore that representation balancing of Article 1 is no longer needed and the EC has actually become moot for its intended purpose.

For the last 60 years I've held that the EC was original intent. But with the advent of 13th, 14th & 15th Amendments the demise of the Electoral Collage is long overdue. And with that, all the Gerrymandering shenanigan's pulled by the two major factions can be brought to a close!

The Electoral College was designed to prevent the most populous states from imposing their will on the least populous ones. If you want to live in accordance with your own ideals, the Electoral College should mean nothing to you. If you want to impose your ideals on those who do not share them, the Electoral College is a fly in your ointment.

 

[Lesh]

It was set up for a number of reasons. One being that the voter couldn't be trusted. They were trying to prevent a demagogue like Trump from getting elected thinking that the Electors could over ride something that stupid.

Clearly that thinking was flawed. The other reason was to entice rural SLAVE states to join the Union. They also granted House Representation based on how many slaves a state had (the 3/5ths rule).Clearly updating of botch are not out of bounds

What Americano is describing is actually a situation where "least populated states" are granted an outsized amount of power, since they have determined two of the last three Presidents accounting for FOUR (out of only nine) Supreme Court Justice seats as well.

So there's that. Republicans want to counter "the tyranny of the majority" with the "tyranny of the MINORITY"

 

[August West]

the toothless redneck who cooks meth in his trailer in West Virginia.

Hey! I live in a really nice trailer.

Resort living with your own yacht. I like it!

 

[Ame®icano]

Yes, impossible. Thirty-eight states would have to ratify the amendment effectively rendering their states mute regarding who is runs the country. Do you really think that's possible?

It is impossible to "render states mute" or even "moot". The idea would be that voters, not the EC, would make the decision. And those voters live in ---------- wait for it ------------------------ states.

The idea would be that voters, not the EC, would make the decision. And those voters live in ---------- wait for it ------------------------ states.

and the number of votes cast in 8 states was still smaller than Los Angeles County, in the last national election.

Imagine how many states it would take to cancel out California entirely.

Irrelevant. Votes are not for "cancelling out".

You wanna talk "cancel out", address all the Rump votes in California (New York, Massachusetts, etc) that were cancelled out by the WTA-EC. Along with who-knows-how-many-more who didn't bother to leave the house because what would be the point.

Get it?

If they get rid of the EC, and go to mob rule, what reason would Montana, north and south Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Kansas and Iowa have to go to the polls?

First of all "mob rule" is a completely bullshitious Doublethink term. If there are fifteen votes and eight of them vote one way, that's called a "majority", not a "mob". Drop the bullshitiousness.

Second, Montanta, Dakotas, etc etc would go to the polls for the same reason anybody else would --- because their votes count. And they'd count MORE since half of them wouldn't immediately be flushed down the electoral toilet, which, in the reverse scenario of what I just explained above, tons of voters didn't bother because their state was voting red regardless what they wanted, ergo what's the point?

A voter in a locked-red or locked-blue state has four choices: Vote with the state, vote against the state, vote third party, or stay home and bake cookies. ALL FOUR of those options bring the same result, with the exception that in the fourth scenario you actually get some cookies. That's not an election ---- that's a state-by-state LOCKOUT.

This appears to be the elephant in the room y'all can't touch. You're not interested in protecting state votes; you're interested in preserving RED votes. Now you'll mark this post "Funny" because you have no argument against it.

It’s always amusing how the far left tries to spin reality to fit its twisted world view. The Democrat Party has skewed increasingly left. Abortion up to birth, every sort of gun ban, property regulation down to, literally, puddles. Taxation, business regulation, thoughtless defense of radical Islam and illegal aliens, weaponizing government agencies against citizens, etc.

Yes, the left, and California and New York in particular, have marginalized themselves. The rest of us are still where we have always been, and we’re still carrying your debt-burdened, fear-driven, hate mongering selves along in spite of your best efforts to immolate the entire Republic.

We’ll continue to carry you, until it becomes more effective to deal with you in other ways. What we will not allow you to do is destroy the rest of us with your inanity and ignorance and outright stupidity. if you dislike that so much then, by all means, feel free to leave.