Environment is Cleaner Than it's Been in More Than 100 Years

There has been plenty of public pressure - and from individuals directly affected by industrial waste streams that are illegally handled and spilled onto their properties. And from banks, who don't want to get stuck holding a mortgage on properties they cannot sell because of contamination. There is plenty of public pressure. You just don't see it because you don't have the field experience others (myself included) have.

That isn't "public pressure." That pressure from affected parties. I assume you're referring to this program to clean up leaky gas storage tanks. We're discussing the EPA, not just one environmental issue.

It wasn't isn't just the UST issue (which certainly is regulated by the EPA). I'm also talking about CERCLA and RCRA. Look it up.

It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.

You still haven't answered the question: how clean is clean enough?

I suggest you read our environmental laws. You can start with RCRA, which delineates when clean is clean enough for specific compounds.

The law keeps changing because of numskulls like you. When are environmental regulations going to be tight enough to satisfy all the environmental wackos?

Dude, chemicals like Benzene are carcenogens. They produce cancer in people and animals at very low concentrations. This is why the U.S. drinking standard for benzene is 5 parts per billion. If you don't mind drinking this stuff have at it, but you don't have a right to expose me and my children to it. And neither does the petro-chemical industry.
 
How clean is clean enough? The answer is simple. We as humans should be constantly striving to make it even cleaner. Clean air and drinking water are things that people are ENTITLED too and any industry that pollutes them should be taken down and replaced with a cleaner, obviously more efficient and better company. What BP got away with is criminal. Just imagine what the corporations would do if they had no regulations. It would be an awful terrible mess. I have no faith in them whatsoever to do the right thing.

This is what they were doing before the regulations were promulgated:

valleydrums.jpg
 
How clean is clean enough? The answer is simple. We as humans should be constantly striving to make it even cleaner. Clean air and drinking water are things that people are ENTITLED too and any industry that pollutes them should be taken down and replaced with a cleaner, obviously more efficient and better company. What BP got away with is criminal. Just imagine what the corporations would do if they had no regulations. It would be an awful terrible mess. I have no faith in them whatsoever to do the right thing.

In other words, you'll never be satisfied, no matter how clean the environment gets or how much it costs.

Thanks for confirming that you're all a bunch if idiot nutters.
 
How clean is clean enough? The answer is simple. We as humans should be constantly striving to make it even cleaner. Clean air and drinking water are things that people are ENTITLED too and any industry that pollutes them should be taken down and replaced with a cleaner, obviously more efficient and better company. What BP got away with is criminal. Just imagine what the corporations would do if they had no regulations. It would be an awful terrible mess. I have no faith in them whatsoever to do the right thing.

In other words, you'll never be satisfied, no matter how clean the environment gets or how much it costs.

Thanks for confirming that you're all a bunch if idiot nutters.

If you truly believe that our regulations are too stringent, then you are a part of the problem, dude. Would you raise you children near one of these? Answer truthfully:

Metamora-C1_167705_7.jpg
 
That isn't "public pressure." That pressure from affected parties. I assume you're referring to this program to clean up leaky gas storage tanks. We're discussing the EPA, not just one environmental issue.

It wasn't isn't just the UST issue (which certainly is regulated by the EPA). I'm also talking about CERCLA and RCRA. Look it up.

It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.

You still haven't answered the question: how clean is clean enough?

I suggest you read our environmental laws. You can start with RCRA, which delineates when clean is clean enough for specific compounds.

The law keeps changing because of numskulls like you. When are environmental regulations going to be tight enough to satisfy all the environmental wackos?

Dude, chemicals like Benzene are carcenogens. They produce cancer in people and animals at very low concentrations. This is why the U.S. drinking standard for benzene is 5 parts per billion. If you don't mind drinking this stuff have at it, but you don't have a right to expose me and my children to it. And neither does the petro-chemical industry.

So you're saying the 5 parts per billion is clean enough? If I'm not mistaken, a few years ago they couldn't even measure 5 parts per billion.

The claim that low concentrations of a chemical will cause cancer because they are carcinogens at high concentrations is dubious, so say the least. Many chemicals that are harmful in high concentrations are actually beneficial in low concentrations. For example, radiation has been found to be beneficial to your health in low concentrations.

Before you go banning some chemical and forcing consumers to pay $billions of dollars to reduce it's concentration in the environment, at least make sure you have your facts straight. So far you don't.
 
It wasn't isn't just the UST issue (which certainly is regulated by the EPA). I'm also talking about CERCLA and RCRA. Look it up.

It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.

You still haven't answered the question: how clean is clean enough?

I suggest you read our environmental laws. You can start with RCRA, which delineates when clean is clean enough for specific compounds.

The law keeps changing because of numskulls like you. When are environmental regulations going to be tight enough to satisfy all the environmental wackos?

Dude, chemicals like Benzene are carcenogens. They produce cancer in people and animals at very low concentrations. This is why the U.S. drinking standard for benzene is 5 parts per billion. If you don't mind drinking this stuff have at it, but you don't have a right to expose me and my children to it. And neither does the petro-chemical industry.

So you're saying the 5 parts per billion is clean enough? If I'm not mistaken, a few years ago they couldn't even measure 5 parts per billion.

I don't know who told you this but it is incorrect. We've had the capacity (via gc/ms) to measure contaminants down to 5ppm for decades. We can now even measure them in many cases down to parts per trillion.

The claim that low concentrations of a chemical will cause cancer because they are carcinogens at high concentrations is dubious, so say the least. Many chemicals that are harmful in high concentrations are actually beneficial in low concentrations. For example, radiation has been found to be beneficial to your health in low concentrations.

Before you go banning some chemical and forcing consumers to pay $billions of dollars to reduce it's concentration in the environment, at least make sure you have your facts straight. So far you don't.


There is nothing dubious about the fact that benzene causes cancer at low concentrations. It is well documented. in the scientific literature. It isn't a matter of if benzene causes cancer. Benzene CAUSES cancer. It is a documented fact. And by the way, benzene isn't banned. It is one of the most widely used chemicals around. It is even in your gasoline.
 
There has been plenty of public pressure - and from individuals directly affected by industrial waste streams that are illegally handled and spilled onto their properties. And from banks, who don't want to get stuck holding a mortgage on properties they cannot sell because of contamination. There is plenty of public pressure. You just don't see it because you don't have the field experience others (myself included) have.

That isn't "public pressure." That pressure from affected parties. I assume you're referring to this program to clean up leaky gas storage tanks. We're discussing the EPA, not just one environmental issue.

It wasn't isn't just the UST issue (which certainly is regulated by the EPA). I'm also talking about CERCLA and RCRA. Look it up.

It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.


That is very true.


That is true, though regulation of point source and non-point source pollution is the bulk of what they do.


They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.
 
That isn't "public pressure." That pressure from affected parties. I assume you're referring to this program to clean up leaky gas storage tanks. We're discussing the EPA, not just one environmental issue.

It wasn't isn't just the UST issue (which certainly is regulated by the EPA). I'm also talking about CERCLA and RCRA. Look it up.

It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.


That is very true.


That is true, though regulation of point source and non-point source pollution is the bulk of what they do.


They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.

Actually, they do.

Polluted Runoff Nonpoint Source Pollution Polluted Runoff US EPA
 
Now we are trying to say that carcinogens in low levels are ok? Sorry. That doesn't fly unless you are only worried about the almighty dollar. Benzene is nasty bad substance. There is no argument on this. Again, if everything is based on cost and the dollar, we are truly screwed. Human health is far more important. Corporations can do their work environmentally safe. It may cost a few bucks more but its more than worth it. Those companies that get caught trying to cut corners should be called on it and brought into court. Creating your product environmentally safe is both responsible and responsible. Chemicals in drinking water should result in large fines.
 
It wasn't isn't just the UST issue (which certainly is regulated by the EPA). I'm also talking about CERCLA and RCRA. Look it up.

It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.


That is very true.


That is true, though regulation of point source and non-point source pollution is the bulk of what they do.


They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.

Actually, they do.

Polluted Runoff Nonpoint Source Pollution Polluted Runoff US EPA


Read it. It's not regulations. It's an outreach and study program.

There is not much ability in the environmental laws to regulate NPS.
 
Now we are trying to say that carcinogens in low levels are ok? Sorry. That doesn't fly unless you are only worried about the almighty dollar. Benzene is nasty bad substance. There is no argument on this. Again, if everything is based on cost and the dollar, we are truly screwed. Human health is far more important. Corporations can do their work environmentally safe. It may cost a few bucks more but its more than worth it. Those companies that get caught trying to cut corners should be called on it and brought into court. Creating your product environmentally safe is both responsible and responsible. Chemicals in drinking water should result in large fines.

The MCLs the EPA use are based on extensive toxicological and risk-based analysis. What this means for benzene is that below the MCL there is no evidence for health risks. Sorry, but this is the best we can do. And despite its risks, benzene is a very important industrial chemical, with many important applications. You'd be hard pressed to replace it with anything safer that has similar characteristics. The issue is using it, storing it, transporting, and when necessary, disposing of it safely. That is what the regs require the industry to do.
 
It's not important. The EPA does a lot more than regulated chemical spills.


That is very true.


That is true, though regulation of point source and non-point source pollution is the bulk of what they do.


They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.

Actually, they do.

Polluted Runoff Nonpoint Source Pollution Polluted Runoff US EPA


Read it. It's not regulations. It's an outreach and study program.

There is not much ability in the environmental laws to regulate NPS.

The link is on the page, if you had just looked for it:

Clean Water Act Section 319 Polluted Runoff US EPA
 
That is very true.


That is true, though regulation of point source and non-point source pollution is the bulk of what they do.


They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.

Actually, they do.

Polluted Runoff Nonpoint Source Pollution Polluted Runoff US EPA


Read it. It's not regulations. It's an outreach and study program.

There is not much ability in the environmental laws to regulate NPS.

The link is on the page, if you had just looked for it:

Clean Water Act Section 319 Polluted Runoff US EPA

Grants.

You didn't read it. OR you didn't understand it.
 
That is true, though regulation of point source and non-point source pollution is the bulk of what they do.


They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.

Actually, they do.

Polluted Runoff Nonpoint Source Pollution Polluted Runoff US EPA


Read it. It's not regulations. It's an outreach and study program.

There is not much ability in the environmental laws to regulate NPS.

The link is on the page, if you had just looked for it:

Clean Water Act Section 319 Polluted Runoff US EPA

Grants.

You didn't read it. OR you didn't understand it.

The grants are to help states deal with non-point source pollution. Didn't you read it?
 
And if the regs regarding the storage of benzene are relaxed imagine the consequences... that is unimaginable.
 
They don't do much regulation of non-point source pollution.

Actually, they do.

Polluted Runoff Nonpoint Source Pollution Polluted Runoff US EPA


Read it. It's not regulations. It's an outreach and study program.

There is not much ability in the environmental laws to regulate NPS.

The link is on the page, if you had just looked for it:

Clean Water Act Section 319 Polluted Runoff US EPA

Grants.

You didn't read it. OR you didn't understand it.

The grants are to help states deal with non-point source pollution. Didn't you read it?


Right. Through technical assistance and mitigation. Not through regulation. Your initial post was that EPA regulated NPS. They really don't. Think about it.
 

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