Even whites living in poverty are privileged

[Asclepias]

I am neither black nor brown. So, I am not a VISIBLE minority.

But my Hungarian accent prevented me from obtaining promotions I have earned. So, I am an AUDIBLE minority.

I am not even going complain about the signs I saw that many employers displayed that "No Hungarians need apply" in the early 1960's. I went back day after day, applied again and again, until I DID get hired. That is called perseverance. Back then there was no welfare, so it was work or starve. I never complained. I earned my citizenship and never missed voting in an election since 1965.

I worked my way out of the mines, bushes and factory floors and taught myself computer programming from which I retired after 38 years, in 2003.

Name just ONE (1) black person who faced "No Blacks Need Apply". Did you?

And another thing: My ancestors were feudal serfs. Their life was far worse than the lives of any American black slave. Not to mention that European feudal serf were in chains a hell of a lot longer than black American slaves, like going back a thousand years.

Do you hear me complain? Do you hear me demanding reparation?

Will you ever consider to shut up and do something constructive for yourself?

Please stop. Youre white dude. My grandfather told me about immigrants like you. You really think because you have an accent people are not going to hire you over a black person?

Are you being serious about the no blacks need apply signs? Are you borderline retarded?

Feudal serfs never lost their religion, history, language, and place of birth. Another interesting thing is it didn't happen here in the US. That is what i call an ad hominem.

You have no need to complain. Youre white and subject to the privileges of being white. No one checks to see if you are from Hungary before calling you white.

I've already done something constructive for myself and it appears I did it in less time than it took for you to retire.

There WAS time in my life when I was not promoted because of my accent.

My accent was about the same deterrent for potential employers as nose rings, tattoos and body piercing is for a black person.

I saw the "No Hungarians Need Apply" sign after the law was passed to prohibit discrimination against blacks.

Feudal serfs were diminished, tortured, exploited, murdered, their wives and daughters raped, far more so than black slaves, in the land of their birth. They were treated cruelly in spite the fact that their religion was the same as their oppressors. You say that atrocities committed on white folks, and especially if they were not committed in geographical United States, they are OK, forgivable, fine, since it only happened to privileged white serfs?

Now it is my turn to ask if you are border line insane.

No group of people need to lose their religion, language and culture. If they are worth preserving, they will be preserved. Just take a look at St. Patrick Day parades and October Fests, for example.

You lose your history, language, culture and religion if they are garbage and easily replaced by something better.

Kind of like replacing tum tum drums with piano, guitar and trumpet?

Or "African contribution to the civilized world" with books, radio, computer, television and cars and sewing machines and trains.

By law NO ONE dares to ask you anything should you opt to be useful and try to get a job. You have affirmative action. You have a slavish media on your side. You have the President on your side.

And you are still complaining, crying and bitching in your own country, where you all the laws are in your favor, because nobody wants to be called a RACIST.

So, shut the Hell up already.

If you were not promoted because of your accent you should have stopped being lazy and corrected your english. Now try correcting the fact your skin produces great amounts of the wonderful substance called melanin because someone doesn't like it.

Sure you saw the signs. I don't really care if its true or not because you could have pretended you were irish if you wanted to.

Again feudal serfs have less than nothing to do with the US.

Why would you think white people would help preserve black culture when they were doing everything in their power to get rid of it? Blacks were punished for practising their religions, speaking their languages, and frequently had their families broken up.

Black people taught Europeans everything they know. Without us you would still be eating each other in Europe.

I don't have affirmative action. White women have it. Go check the stats.

I'm not crying or complaining. i am stating facts.

Make me shut up.

 

[Yarddog]

The evidence was sited in the article that apparently no one read. White privilege is well documented empirically as well as historically.

Black people are also holding each other down by continuously telling eaach other they cant succeed in white America. Life does not have an even playing field. Its damn well that way in nature and society. Societies that try to create Level playing fields often end up with something horiffic like Cambodia or Zimbabwe. America is a big place and there are so many good people its too bad there are so many who can not see that so many of them are white as well. If there is rotten fruit in your basket, dont complain, be thankful you got some fruit and eat the good ones.

I grant you that. Where I grew up the excuse I heard from some of the brightest people I knew consisted of that sentiment. I knew drug dealers that were so intelligent and business savvy but they quit fighting and turned to crime because of racism.

My point is that racism is an extra burden that Blacks have to shoulder to get ahead. Having never experienced it, most whites cannot even hope to understand the effects. Thats why I give credit to those whites that actually attempt to exercise their intellect and understand cause and effect.

And I sure admit tht racism exists and does block people. However, one way that i see it is many people can be unsucessful in life to to many things, usually rooted in lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem or feeling burned out or broken.

There are many things that can cause those situations and you are only focusing on one. To say a white man only needs to clean himself up and put on a nice suit to be sucessful and he has no excusses is either ignorant or racist itself.

What if I was a white person who at an early age had to take care of siblings, or parents, what if i suffered emotional or phycological abuse? There are so many real life situations,... individual situations, but it is so easy to put people into this group of white or black and overlook anything else. From a black persons perspective racism may seem to be the largest hinderance But how can one man judge that his barrier is greater than another persons? We are all born with a different tolerance to adversity, there are some people who are just born lazy and dont want to work ( ive met that person)

Yes racism exists , but you yourself said you became sucessful when you just allowed yourself to move around it. I dont think being a Black man made you successful.... You did it. You could have just sat on your ass, it took effort.

So likewise I can say Being white didnt make me successful, I had to do it, I had to get in gear every day or I could just as easily drop off. Is it an advantage to be white in America, well i think that your right it is , but that is an advantage among many other advantages in my opinion. The worst thing black people can do for themselves in my opinion is to continue to obsess about the Racial score.. who is winning and who is losing based upon race, it continues to create a negative mindset. the only benefit there is , is if they are wanting a hand out from a government agency who also keeps score, but in the long run,
the way you achieved success is the best way because even with help from your mentors, you made choices as an individual. That is supposed to be the premis of America, anyone from the world can come here legaly and be successful as an individual. Imperfect as the system is, as it was created, those individual rights are legal and the imperfections can be corrected.

 

[Andylusion]

I didnt mean to imply you said racism doesn't exist. We both know it does. What you are missing is that the effects of racism is a large component in the rate of what you may call "success" vs failure. You seem to say on one hand racism exists but its not relevant? Do I understand this correctly?

You mentioned the Brits being racist towards both Kenyans and Indians. My question is was that level of racism equal or was it setup as a caste system with the Indian a rung above the Kenyans? As far as success in England you do realize Africans are the most highly educated demographic right? You want to know why? They never had their traditions, language, and religion stripped from them. They have a background that was passed down which fostered success.

Here is where it always gets weird for me in an amusing way. Why should someone have to change their name? This is one aspect of white people that really cracks me up. Who told you that anyone has to prove to whites that they have a good attitude by changing their names? If you cant pronounce the name you need to make a better effort. Its really that simple.

American culture. Thats another amusing topic. Did you mean white culture? The reason I ask is because you already admitted to believing changing your name is a sign of integrating. American culture is made up of contributions of different cultures. You cant tell me anything about american culture that is strictly white.

Maybe what you see is a refusal of most Blacks not to abandon the things that they feel are important. Maybe racism is caused by whites feeling angered that Blacks do not see them as the models of civilized society. i for one dont conform to most of the tenets of white culture and never have. This has never held me back. What caused temporary roadblocks were whites attempting to stop my progress because I was Black.

I lived next door to some white people who got pissy drunk one night and broke my fence down then denied they did it. I didn't immediately come to the conclusion that all whites were like that. I think what your issue appears to be is that you are trying to fit a square into a circle. I used to do that too. Whenever that occurs you should back up admit you are wrong and look deeper into the issue. Your conclusion is too simplistic.

Racism largely has no real effect in our modern society. In my time, I've worked with hundreds, if not thousands, of minorities. In my experience, both professionally, and personally, and communally, the reason for success and failure of those minorities, were the same as whites, namely the ethics and culture of the individuals in question.

I can't think of a single Black person, or any minority, who was denied a job because of race, nor can I think of any that lost a job, or didn't get promoted, or denied a pay raise.

Another short story. I worked at a place that was owned by an Egyptian, and they hired almost exclusively Muslim immigrants. I was one of only 3 white Americans in the entire building, and the other 2 quit within a few months of me showing up. They had baths for the men, so they could wash their feet and heads before lunch. On Friday everyone would just get up and leave to go to the Mosque.

I found out I was the lowest paid person in the building. They obviously were racist. Black Muslim racism is holding down the whities.

But here is what was interesting. The highest paid tech in the place, was a Mexican Catholic. Which illustrates my point. Work ethic, and mastering a skill or talent, and working with integrity, will overcome racism, whether it is from a white American, or a Black Muslim. They paid him the most, because he was always early to work, and always produced good work, and mastered the ability to fix what he was given.

To answer your question about the BBC, they made it clear the same racism was directed at both. Originally both Indians and Kenyans were excluded. But then over time, the Indians advanced, while the Kenyans remained where they were. And the reason why, is just as the Indians in the documentary said, they put effort into integrating into British society. Soon, Indians were moving into exactly those areas they were prohibited from before.

I too had some white people across the street who played loud music at all hours of the night. Shockingly, we levied fines on them until they moved out too.

Again, yet another example of it not being about race, but rather individual choices. The white guy that caused problems in the condo, had the same result as those of minorities.

And no, obviously I didn't mean "white culture", or I would have said that. I said American Culture, because that's what I meant.

Now, if an individual chooses to maintain their cultural heritage, at the exclusion of the culture of the country he is in, that's his choice.

But I can nearly guarantee that those people will not do as well as those who give up aspects of their native culture to fit in with the society around them, will do better, than those that don't.

Again, that's a choice, not racism. Europeans who move to Japan, and refuse to engage in the Japanese culture, don't do as well as those that do.

[ame=http://youtu.be/Eu_bKJ11O0M]Thomas Sowell - Culture Matters - YouTube[/ame]

Thomas Sowell outlines this perfectly.

Racism has a very real effect on our society. Take a look at the state of affairs racism has caused. You simply cannot be this imperceptive

I can think of quite a few Black and Mexican people I know that were denied jobs because of their race. There are also studies out that express the same racism you display when you feel people should change their names. Studies have found that if you have a name that sounds "black" you are substantially less likely to get a callback from an employer looking at your resume despite have a better skill set than the white sounding names. How do you explain that and what do you think the implications are for someone Black looking for a job?

I know for a fact the British practiced a racial caste system everywhere in Africa. Blacks were on the bottom with whites on top and indians in the middle. Gandhi even echoed this sentiment. Its a known fact that the closer you are to being white the better whites treat you. That is evident everywhere on the planet.

You keep missing the point. My choice to indulge in my culture does not give you license to practice racism. The fact that you just admitted I need to change my culture in order to succeed should turn on a light bulb in your head. Racism effects the lives of the people it is practised against. You just admitted it.

No, you are missing the point. Your choice to indulge in culture, has effects on the outcomes that result from those choices, regardless of racism.

I read the autobiography of some Irish immigrant who came to the US, and drank while on the job. That was the culture he came from. It was normal where he was from. Here in the US, he'd put the bottle away, do really well, make a ton of money, then start drinking, and end up fired.

He never really succeeded in life because he kept drinking away his jobs. He moved to a different city, followed the same pattern, and had the same results.

Now what he was doing might have worked in Ireland, but it didn't work here in the US. Why? Cultural differences. We don't except that here.

Read Black Rednecks and White Liberals, by Thomas Sowell.

Culture is a choice. It's not racist, and it does have an effect.

As for Kenya, and the different levels of discrimination, that smacks of more leftist excuse making.

I'm not going to debate you on this, because the people interviewed in the documentary on the BBC were very open that they were held to the same level of discrimination when the migration first began, as the Kenyans were.

You are basically saying the people who lived through the discrimination you are talking about, are all liars. If that's your position, fine, take it up with them. As for me, I'm taking their word over a political partisan with an axe to grind like you, any day.

 

[Andylusion]

I am neither black nor brown. So, I am not a VISIBLE minority.

But my Hungarian accent prevented me from obtaining promotions I have earned. So, I am an AUDIBLE minority.

I am not even going complain about the signs I saw that many employers displayed that "No Hungarians need apply" in the early 1960's. I went back day after day, applied again and again, until I DID get hired. That is called perseverance. Back then there was no welfare, so it was work or starve. I never complained. I earned my citizenship and never missed voting in an election since 1965.

I worked my way out of the mines, bushes and factory floors and taught myself computer programming from which I retired after 38 years, in 2003.

Name just ONE (1) black person who faced "No Blacks Need Apply". Did you?

And another thing: My ancestors were feudal serfs. Their life was far worse than the lives of any American black slave. Not to mention that European feudal serf were in chains a hell of a lot longer than black American slaves, like going back a thousand years.

Do you hear me complain? Do you hear me demanding reparation?

Will you ever consider to shut up and do something constructive for yourself?

Please stop. Youre white dude. My grandfather told me about immigrants like you. You really think because you have an accent people are not going to hire you over a black person?

Are you being serious about the no blacks need apply signs? Are you borderline retarded?

Feudal serfs never lost their religion, history, language, and place of birth. Another interesting thing is it didn't happen here in the US. That is what i call an ad hominem.

You have no need to complain. Youre white and subject to the privileges of being white. No one checks to see if you are from Hungary before calling you white.

I've already done something constructive for myself and it appears I did it in less time than it took for you to retire.

That's exactly right! White guys enduring prejudice and racism, all of their suffering is completely irrelevant! Isn't even considered worth mentioning! No suffering matters unless it's a left-leaning minority with a political axe to grind! No other group suffers except the left-wing minorities! No one else ever suffers in our partisan world!!

 

[Asclepias]

Black people are also holding each other down by continuously telling eaach other they cant succeed in white America. Life does not have an even playing field. Its damn well that way in nature and society. Societies that try to create Level playing fields often end up with something horiffic like Cambodia or Zimbabwe. America is a big place and there are so many good people its too bad there are so many who can not see that so many of them are white as well. If there is rotten fruit in your basket, dont complain, be thankful you got some fruit and eat the good ones.

I grant you that. Where I grew up the excuse I heard from some of the brightest people I knew consisted of that sentiment. I knew drug dealers that were so intelligent and business savvy but they quit fighting and turned to crime because of racism.

My point is that racism is an extra burden that Blacks have to shoulder to get ahead. Having never experienced it, most whites cannot even hope to understand the effects. Thats why I give credit to those whites that actually attempt to exercise their intellect and understand cause and effect.

And I sure admit tht racism exists and does block people. However, one way that i see it is many people can be unsucessful in life to to many things, usually rooted in lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem or feeling burned out or broken.

There are many things that can cause those situations and you are only focusing on one. To say a white man only needs to clean himself up and put on a nice suit to be sucessful and he has no excusses is either ignorant or racist itself.

What if I was a white person who at an early age had to take care of siblings, or parents, what if i suffered emotional or phycological abuse? There are so many real life situations,... individual situations, but it is so easy to put people into this group of white or black and overlook anything else. From a black persons perspective racism may seem to be the largest hinderance But how can one man judge that his barrier is greater than another persons? We are all born with a different tolerance to adversity, there are some people who are just born lazy and dont want to work ( ive met that person)

Yes racism exists , but you yourself said you became sucessful when you just allowed yourself to move around it. I dont think being a Black man made you successful.... You did it. You could have just sat on your ass, it took effort.

So likewise I can say Being white didnt make me successful, I had to do it, I had to get in gear every day or I could just as easily drop off. Is it an advantage to be white in America, well i think that your right it is , but that is an advantage among many other advantages in my opinion. The worst thing black people can do for themselves in my opinion is to continue to obsess about the Racial score.. who is winning and who is losing based upon race, it continues to create a negative mindset. the only benefit there is , is if they are wanting a hand out from a government agency who also keeps score, but in the long run,
the way you achieved success is the best way because even with help from your mentors, you made choices as an individual. That is supposed to be the premis of America, anyone from the world can come here legaly and be successful as an individual. Imperfect as the system is, as it was created, those individual rights are legal and the imperfections can be corrected.

In any situation you are going to have variables. We are speaking in general. In general Black people have to work much harder than Whites to obtain the same success. I dont know what you mean by racial score. I'm talking specifically about the fact that white people founded this country and enacted policies that benefited white people and penalized Blacks. Because of these racist policies instituted for well over 300 years, they have culminated in not only whites having a head start, but also having ownership of the very resources Blacks need to get ahead. Thats the economic part of the equation. There is also a social part that has placed Blacks at the bottom of the racial caste thereby penalizing them even more while giving whites a further head start. Blacks should not have to work harder than whites to get to the same level. The reality is that they have to. If people cant see that then I can only assume they are lying or very naive.

 

[Andylusion]

I grant you that. Where I grew up the excuse I heard from some of the brightest people I knew consisted of that sentiment. I knew drug dealers that were so intelligent and business savvy but they quit fighting and turned to crime because of racism.

My point is that racism is an extra burden that Blacks have to shoulder to get ahead. Having never experienced it, most whites cannot even hope to understand the effects. Thats why I give credit to those whites that actually attempt to exercise their intellect and understand cause and effect.

And I sure admit tht racism exists and does block people. However, one way that i see it is many people can be unsucessful in life to to many things, usually rooted in lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem or feeling burned out or broken.

There are many things that can cause those situations and you are only focusing on one. To say a white man only needs to clean himself up and put on a nice suit to be sucessful and he has no excusses is either ignorant or racist itself.

What if I was a white person who at an early age had to take care of siblings, or parents, what if i suffered emotional or phycological abuse? There are so many real life situations,... individual situations, but it is so easy to put people into this group of white or black and overlook anything else. From a black persons perspective racism may seem to be the largest hinderance But how can one man judge that his barrier is greater than another persons? We are all born with a different tolerance to adversity, there are some people who are just born lazy and dont want to work ( ive met that person)

Yes racism exists , but you yourself said you became sucessful when you just allowed yourself to move around it. I dont think being a Black man made you successful.... You did it. You could have just sat on your ass, it took effort.

So likewise I can say Being white didnt make me successful, I had to do it, I had to get in gear every day or I could just as easily drop off. Is it an advantage to be white in America, well i think that your right it is , but that is an advantage among many other advantages in my opinion. The worst thing black people can do for themselves in my opinion is to continue to obsess about the Racial score.. who is winning and who is losing based upon race, it continues to create a negative mindset. the only benefit there is , is if they are wanting a hand out from a government agency who also keeps score, but in the long run,
the way you achieved success is the best way because even with help from your mentors, you made choices as an individual. That is supposed to be the premis of America, anyone from the world can come here legaly and be successful as an individual. Imperfect as the system is, as it was created, those individual rights are legal and the imperfections can be corrected.

In any situation you are going to have variables. We are speaking in general. In general Black people have to work much harder than Whites to obtain the same success. I dont know what you mean by racial score. I'm talking specifically about the fact that white people founded this country and enacted policies that benefited white people and penalized Blacks. Because of these racist policies instituted for well over 300 years, they have culminated in not only whites having a head start, but also having ownership of the very resources Blacks need to get ahead. Thats the economic part of the equation. There is also a social part that has placed Blacks at the bottom of the racial caste thereby penalizing them even more while giving whites a further head start. Blacks should not have to work harder than whites to get to the same level. The reality is that they have to. If people cant see that then I can only assume they are lying or very naive.

Again, that's not a race based thing. If my parents, grand parents, great grand parents, uncles and relatives, are all poor impoverished, and uneducated, and there are white families who have that situation, they have to work harder than others whites, and harder than blacks and Asians, to achieve the same level of success.

That's not a race system. That's a family heritage you are talking about.

There is no institutional policy that hold blacks down. Just not true.

 

[Yarddog]

I grant you that. Where I grew up the excuse I heard from some of the brightest people I knew consisted of that sentiment. I knew drug dealers that were so intelligent and business savvy but they quit fighting and turned to crime because of racism.

My point is that racism is an extra burden that Blacks have to shoulder to get ahead. Having never experienced it, most whites cannot even hope to understand the effects. Thats why I give credit to those whites that actually attempt to exercise their intellect and understand cause and effect.

And I sure admit tht racism exists and does block people. However, one way that i see it is many people can be unsucessful in life to to many things, usually rooted in lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem or feeling burned out or broken.

There are many things that can cause those situations and you are only focusing on one. To say a white man only needs to clean himself up and put on a nice suit to be sucessful and he has no excusses is either ignorant or racist itself.

What if I was a white person who at an early age had to take care of siblings, or parents, what if i suffered emotional or phycological abuse? There are so many real life situations,... individual situations, but it is so easy to put people into this group of white or black and overlook anything else. From a black persons perspective racism may seem to be the largest hinderance But how can one man judge that his barrier is greater than another persons? We are all born with a different tolerance to adversity, there are some people who are just born lazy and dont want to work ( ive met that person)

Yes racism exists , but you yourself said you became sucessful when you just allowed yourself to move around it. I dont think being a Black man made you successful.... You did it. You could have just sat on your ass, it took effort.

So likewise I can say Being white didnt make me successful, I had to do it, I had to get in gear every day or I could just as easily drop off. Is it an advantage to be white in America, well i think that your right it is , but that is an advantage among many other advantages in my opinion. The worst thing black people can do for themselves in my opinion is to continue to obsess about the Racial score.. who is winning and who is losing based upon race, it continues to create a negative mindset. the only benefit there is , is if they are wanting a hand out from a government agency who also keeps score, but in the long run,
the way you achieved success is the best way because even with help from your mentors, you made choices as an individual. That is supposed to be the premis of America, anyone from the world can come here legaly and be successful as an individual. Imperfect as the system is, as it was created, those individual rights are legal and the imperfections can be corrected.

In any situation you are going to have variables. We are speaking in general. In general Black people have to work much harder than Whites to obtain the same success. I dont know what you mean by racial score. I'm talking specifically about the fact that white people founded this country and enacted policies that benefited white people and penalized Blacks. Because of these racist policies instituted for well over 300 years, they have culminated in not only whites having a head start, but also having ownership of the very resources Blacks need to get ahead. Thats the economic part of the equation. There is also a social part that has placed Blacks at the bottom of the racial caste thereby penalizing them even more while giving whites a further head start. Blacks should not have to work harder than whites to get to the same level. The reality is that they have to. If people cant see that then I can only assume they are lying or very naive.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not entirely. I think in America today there is heavy racism in some areas, but that is shrinking and I think that is a good thing. When whites keep getting pounded with " your racist because your white" it creates a slow down in this natural process. Social evolution takes time but it is happening and if anyone denies that, just look at Barrack Obama, he was only a Senator for one term and he became president of the United States. Did he haver to work harder than anyone else to hold the highest office? No he did not. And thats fine with me, some people get breaks and some people dont.
i know there are a lot of differences in perception here I admit for one thing, I notice, It seems that most black people in the US see themselves as ONE people. Us white people,
speaking in a generality here, dont look at another white person and think of them as a white brother, but rather just another person. I would really like to see poor people in this country do better, and the social problems we have especialy in big citys go away. Whats the solution? i guess thats where most of the debate is. Are you one of those who wants reparations? i think more along the line of positive energy attracts positive energy, and likewise negative does the exact opposite. Unless someone has a time machine where we can go back and alter history, then the only thing to do is move forward. That means seeing the opportunity that is there, and if necessary working harder than someone else.

 

[Yarddog]

Ever hear of evolution? In Evolution the old die to make room for the new and improved new. Blacks are the old and whites are the new and improved.

Your obviously bullshitting right? otherwise we have to move over for the Asians,
they seem to be getting into UC Berkeley much easier than us white people.

 

[squeeze berry]

I didnt mean to imply you said racism doesn't exist. We both know it does. What you are missing is that the effects of racism is a large component in the rate of what you may call "success" vs failure. You seem to say on one hand racism exists but its not relevant? Do I understand this correctly?

You mentioned the Brits being racist towards both Kenyans and Indians. My question is was that level of racism equal or was it setup as a caste system with the Indian a rung above the Kenyans? As far as success in England you do realize Africans are the most highly educated demographic right? You want to know why? They never had their traditions, language, and religion stripped from them. They have a background that was passed down which fostered success.

Here is where it always gets weird for me in an amusing way. Why should someone have to change their name? This is one aspect of white people that really cracks me up. Who told you that anyone has to prove to whites that they have a good attitude by changing their names? If you cant pronounce the name you need to make a better effort. Its really that simple.

American culture. Thats another amusing topic. Did you mean white culture? The reason I ask is because you already admitted to believing changing your name is a sign of integrating. American culture is made up of contributions of different cultures. You cant tell me anything about american culture that is strictly white.

Maybe what you see is a refusal of most Blacks not to abandon the things that they feel are important. Maybe racism is caused by whites feeling angered that Blacks do not see them as the models of civilized society. i for one dont conform to most of the tenets of white culture and never have. This has never held me back. What caused temporary roadblocks were whites attempting to stop my progress because I was Black.

I lived next door to some white people who got pissy drunk one night and broke my fence down then denied they did it. I didn't immediately come to the conclusion that all whites were like that. I think what your issue appears to be is that you are trying to fit a square into a circle. I used to do that too. Whenever that occurs you should back up admit you are wrong and look deeper into the issue. Your conclusion is too simplistic.

Racism largely has no real effect in our modern society. In my time, I've worked with hundreds, if not thousands, of minorities. In my experience, both professionally, and personally, and communally, the reason for success and failure of those minorities, were the same as whites, namely the ethics and culture of the individuals in question.

I can't think of a single Black person, or any minority, who was denied a job because of race, nor can I think of any that lost a job, or didn't get promoted, or denied a pay raise.

Another short story. I worked at a place that was owned by an Egyptian, and they hired almost exclusively Muslim immigrants. I was one of only 3 white Americans in the entire building, and the other 2 quit within a few months of me showing up. They had baths for the men, so they could wash their feet and heads before lunch. On Friday everyone would just get up and leave to go to the Mosque.

I found out I was the lowest paid person in the building. They obviously were racist. Black Muslim racism is holding down the whities.

But here is what was interesting. The highest paid tech in the place, was a Mexican Catholic. Which illustrates my point. Work ethic, and mastering a skill or talent, and working with integrity, will overcome racism, whether it is from a white American, or a Black Muslim. They paid him the most, because he was always early to work, and always produced good work, and mastered the ability to fix what he was given.

To answer your question about the BBC, they made it clear the same racism was directed at both. Originally both Indians and Kenyans were excluded. But then over time, the Indians advanced, while the Kenyans remained where they were. And the reason why, is just as the Indians in the documentary said, they put effort into integrating into British society. Soon, Indians were moving into exactly those areas they were prohibited from before.

I too had some white people across the street who played loud music at all hours of the night. Shockingly, we levied fines on them until they moved out too.

Again, yet another example of it not being about race, but rather individual choices. The white guy that caused problems in the condo, had the same result as those of minorities.

And no, obviously I didn't mean "white culture", or I would have said that. I said American Culture, because that's what I meant.

Now, if an individual chooses to maintain their cultural heritage, at the exclusion of the culture of the country he is in, that's his choice.

But I can nearly guarantee that those people will not do as well as those who give up aspects of their native culture to fit in with the society around them, will do better, than those that don't.

Again, that's a choice, not racism. Europeans who move to Japan, and refuse to engage in the Japanese culture, don't do as well as those that do.

[ame=http://youtu.be/Eu_bKJ11O0M]Thomas Sowell - Culture Matters - YouTube[/ame]

Thomas Sowell outlines this perfectly.

Racism has a very real effect on our society. Take a look at the state of affairs racism has caused. You simply cannot be this imperceptive

I can think of quite a few Black and Mexican people I know that were denied jobs because of their race. There are also studies out that express the same racism you display when you feel people should change their names. Studies have found that if you have a name that sounds "black" you are substantially less likely to get a callback from an employer looking at your resume despite have a better skill set than the white sounding names. How do you explain that and what do you think the implications are for someone Black looking for a job?

I know for a fact the British practiced a racial caste system everywhere in Africa. Blacks were on the bottom with whites on top and indians in the middle. Gandhi even echoed this sentiment. Its a known fact that the closer you are to being white the better whites treat you. That is evident everywhere on the planet.

You keep missing the point. My choice to indulge in my culture does not give you license to practice racism. The fact that you just admitted I need to change my culture in order to succeed should turn on a light bulb in your head. Racism effects the lives of the people it is practised against. You just admitted it.

so if a white person is denied a job and a minority is hired is that racism too?

 

[squeeze berry]

I grant you that. Where I grew up the excuse I heard from some of the brightest people I knew consisted of that sentiment. I knew drug dealers that were so intelligent and business savvy but they quit fighting and turned to crime because of racism.

My point is that racism is an extra burden that Blacks have to shoulder to get ahead. Having never experienced it, most whites cannot even hope to understand the effects. Thats why I give credit to those whites that actually attempt to exercise their intellect and understand cause and effect.

And I sure admit tht racism exists and does block people. However, one way that i see it is many people can be unsucessful in life to to many things, usually rooted in lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem or feeling burned out or broken.

There are many things that can cause those situations and you are only focusing on one. To say a white man only needs to clean himself up and put on a nice suit to be sucessful and he has no excusses is either ignorant or racist itself.

What if I was a white person who at an early age had to take care of siblings, or parents, what if i suffered emotional or phycological abuse? There are so many real life situations,... individual situations, but it is so easy to put people into this group of white or black and overlook anything else. From a black persons perspective racism may seem to be the largest hinderance But how can one man judge that his barrier is greater than another persons? We are all born with a different tolerance to adversity, there are some people who are just born lazy and dont want to work ( ive met that person)

Yes racism exists , but you yourself said you became sucessful when you just allowed yourself to move around it. I dont think being a Black man made you successful.... You did it. You could have just sat on your ass, it took effort.

So likewise I can say Being white didnt make me successful, I had to do it, I had to get in gear every day or I could just as easily drop off. Is it an advantage to be white in America, well i think that your right it is , but that is an advantage among many other advantages in my opinion. The worst thing black people can do for themselves in my opinion is to continue to obsess about the Racial score.. who is winning and who is losing based upon race, it continues to create a negative mindset. the only benefit there is , is if they are wanting a hand out from a government agency who also keeps score, but in the long run,
the way you achieved success is the best way because even with help from your mentors, you made choices as an individual. That is supposed to be the premis of America, anyone from the world can come here legaly and be successful as an individual. Imperfect as the system is, as it was created, those individual rights are legal and the imperfections can be corrected.

In any situation you are going to have variables. We are speaking in general. In general Black people have to work much harder than Whites to obtain the same success. I dont know what you mean by racial score. I'm talking specifically about the fact that white people founded this country and enacted policies that benefited white people and penalized Blacks. Because of these racist policies instituted for well over 300 years, they have culminated in not only whites having a head start, but also having ownership of the very resources Blacks need to get ahead. Thats the economic part of the equation. There is also a social part that has placed Blacks at the bottom of the racial caste thereby penalizing them even more while giving whites a further head start. Blacks should not have to work harder than whites to get to the same level. The reality is that they have to. If people cant see that then I can only assume they are lying or very naive.

can you prove blacks have to work harder than whites to get to the same level?

 

[JimBowie1958]

And I sure admit tht racism exists and does block people. However, one way that i see it is many people can be unsucessful in life to to many things, usually rooted in lack of self confidence, lack of self esteem or feeling burned out or broken.

There are many things that can cause those situations and you are only focusing on one. To say a white man only needs to clean himself up and put on a nice suit to be sucessful and he has no excusses is either ignorant or racist itself.

What if I was a white person who at an early age had to take care of siblings, or parents, what if i suffered emotional or phycological abuse? There are so many real life situations,... individual situations, but it is so easy to put people into this group of white or black and overlook anything else. From a black persons perspective racism may seem to be the largest hinderance But how can one man judge that his barrier is greater than another persons? We are all born with a different tolerance to adversity, there are some people who are just born lazy and dont want to work ( ive met that person)

Yes racism exists , but you yourself said you became sucessful when you just allowed yourself to move around it. I dont think being a Black man made you successful.... You did it. You could have just sat on your ass, it took effort.

So likewise I can say Being white didnt make me successful, I had to do it, I had to get in gear every day or I could just as easily drop off. Is it an advantage to be white in America, well i think that your right it is , but that is an advantage among many other advantages in my opinion. The worst thing black people can do for themselves in my opinion is to continue to obsess about the Racial score.. who is winning and who is losing based upon race, it continues to create a negative mindset. the only benefit there is , is if they are wanting a hand out from a government agency who also keeps score, but in the long run,
the way you achieved success is the best way because even with help from your mentors, you made choices as an individual. That is supposed to be the premis of America, anyone from the world can come here legaly and be successful as an individual. Imperfect as the system is, as it was created, those individual rights are legal and the imperfections can be corrected.

In any situation you are going to have variables. We are speaking in general. In general Black people have to work much harder than Whites to obtain the same success. I dont know what you mean by racial score. I'm talking specifically about the fact that white people founded this country and enacted policies that benefited white people and penalized Blacks. Because of these racist policies instituted for well over 300 years, they have culminated in not only whites having a head start, but also having ownership of the very resources Blacks need to get ahead. Thats the economic part of the equation. There is also a social part that has placed Blacks at the bottom of the racial caste thereby penalizing them even more while giving whites a further head start. Blacks should not have to work harder than whites to get to the same level. The reality is that they have to. If people cant see that then I can only assume they are lying or very naive.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not entirely. I think in America today there is heavy racism in some areas, but that is shrinking and I think that is a good thing. When whites keep getting pounded with " your racist because your white" it creates a slow down in this natural process. Social evolution takes time but it is happening and if anyone denies that, just look at Barrack Obama, he was only a Senator for one term and he became president of the United States. Did he haver to work harder than anyone else to hold the highest office? No he did not. And thats fine with me, some people get breaks and some people dont.
i know there are a lot of differences in perception here I admit for one thing, I notice, It seems that most black people in the US see themselves as ONE people. Us white people,
speaking in a generality here, dont look at another white person and think of them as a white brother, but rather just another person. I would really like to see poor people in this country do better, and the social problems we have especialy in big citys go away. Whats the solution? i guess thats where most of the debate is. Are you one of those who wants reparations? i think more along the line of positive energy attracts positive energy, and likewise negative does the exact opposite. Unless someone has a time machine where we can go back and alter history, then the only thing to do is move forward. That means seeing the opportunity that is there, and if necessary working harder than someone else.

White racism among millenials is on the rebound. They have been schooled since little kids about racial orgs and racial rights and racial identity and how that is not such a bad thing, and is good for the minority.

Most of them are putting 'if its good for minorities why isn't it good for whites?' together and realizing that they are being manipulated. They just feel like there is nothing they can do about it and so they go with the shit flow on the surface but in private they rant about blacks and Mexicans.

 

[Zmrzlina]

In any situation you are going to have variables. We are speaking in general. In general Black people have to work much harder than Whites to obtain the same success. I dont know what you mean by racial score. I'm talking specifically about the fact that white people founded this country and enacted policies that benefited white people and penalized Blacks. Because of these racist policies instituted for well over 300 years, they have culminated in not only whites having a head start, but also having ownership of the very resources Blacks need to get ahead. Thats the economic part of the equation. There is also a social part that has placed Blacks at the bottom of the racial caste thereby penalizing them even more while giving whites a further head start. Blacks should not have to work harder than whites to get to the same level. The reality is that they have to. If people cant see that then I can only assume they are lying or very naive.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not entirely. I think in America today there is heavy racism in some areas, but that is shrinking and I think that is a good thing. When whites keep getting pounded with " your racist because your white" it creates a slow down in this natural process. Social evolution takes time but it is happening and if anyone denies that, just look at Barrack Obama, he was only a Senator for one term and he became president of the United States. Did he haver to work harder than anyone else to hold the highest office? No he did not. And thats fine with me, some people get breaks and some people dont.
i know there are a lot of differences in perception here I admit for one thing, I notice, It seems that most black people in the US see themselves as ONE people. Us white people,
speaking in a generality here, dont look at another white person and think of them as a white brother, but rather just another person. I would really like to see poor people in this country do better, and the social problems we have especialy in big citys go away. Whats the solution? i guess thats where most of the debate is. Are you one of those who wants reparations? i think more along the line of positive energy attracts positive energy, and likewise negative does the exact opposite. Unless someone has a time machine where we can go back and alter history, then the only thing to do is move forward. That means seeing the opportunity that is there, and if necessary working harder than someone else.

White racism among millenials is on the rebound. They have been schooled since little kids about racial orgs and racial rights and racial identity and how that is not such a bad thing, and is good for the minority.

Most of them are putting 'if its good for minorities why isn't it good for whites?' together and realizing that they are being manipulated. They just feel like there is nothing they can do about it and so they go with the shit flow on the surface but in private they rant about blacks and Mexicans.

Not this millennial. If two people start out with different amount of apples, giving them both one apple doesn't result in equality. Caucasians of European descent have all the advantages of society so having a group that exists to maintain those advantages at the detriment of everyone else results in institutionalized racism.

 

[Slyhunter]

Ever hear of evolution? In Evolution the old die to make room for the new and improved new. Blacks are the old and whites are the new and improved.

Your obviously bullshitting right? otherwise we have to move over for the Asians,
they seem to be getting into UC Berkeley much easier than us white people.

Maybe we should.