Every Youngster Age 18-19 Should Be Required To Serve 3 Years In The Military

[Dan Daly]

I suggested that if American families are all subject to a draft of their children that those families will be far more involved in American politics. Presidents can't wage war easily without volunteer armies.

No one can refute that. The Corrells say they are conservative but support imperial presidencies.

If my kids and grand kids are subject to a draft, I will be far more involved in taking down the criminal government that wishes to enslave them. Put that into your pipe and try to refute it, chicken hawk.

Again, if the draft were a deterent to U.S. foreign military intervention abroad, the United States would never of fought the Korean and Vietnam wars. Having the draft did nothing to prevent the United States from entering those wars.

If one's cause is honorable and just, why would one need to force people to fight for it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The solution is not a draft, but for Congress to follow the constitution, and vote for or against war, with only 2/3's voting yea, in the house and senate, for it to pass...

NO MORE HANDING THIS OFF TO THE PRESIDENT, with just a 50% vote...and giving up their constitutional duty.

Congress only has control over passing a war, but the problem is we don't call them wars any longer. We call them police actions or some such thing.

Technically, we haven't had a war in this country since Vietnam.

 

[U2Edge]

Word.

It disgusts me how people have no problem wh sending our troops all over the globe to get blown up . They'd have different ideas if thier little Johnny was going overseas .

It disgusts me that 100 years after World War I, there are still Americans who do not understand how their way of life and well being are impacted by events overseas. Its 2015, not 1812 and the food you put in your mouth every day, the price you pay for it, is impacted by the global market price for oil which is heavily impacted by events in the Middle East.

 

[the_human_being]

The military service and training forms a basic structure for young citizens much better than E Mail and Texting. Video games are a no brainer.

Israel requires this of all their young men and women and they seem to turn out pretty well.

Also.....the bunch of chicken hawks in the congress would think twice if they were sending their own to some godforsaken desert or mountain range to get wounded or die.

I totally disagree. The draft fed the war machine for a decade in Vietnam. Not only did congress not have second thoughts about sending us to our deaths, but Vietnam could never have been even possible without the draft.

If they ever start talking about starting it again, unless attacked by a foreign nation, I will preach resistance at every opportunity.

Most Americans would and the few politicians that brought it up quickly backed down after seeing the opposition. It will never happen unless (as you stated) there was little choice.

Well...if it walks like a duck..............

I don't know why I'm even messing with you people. My oldest granddaughter's husband pulled two tours in Iraq, was stationed 3 years in Germany and for the last 10 months has been flying Chinook helicopters along the Korean demilitarized zone....that's the big Whirley Gig machine that can haul a 50 ton tank.

Like I said.....folks who can't/couldn't afford college are ready made for the military. There is one little catch....one must be able to tie their shoes and chew gum at the same time. There are one helluva lot of those elitist bastards like most Republicans who can't!!

So there are only Democrats in our military? Why do they mostly vote Republican then?

No way he's gonna answer that one.

 

[U2Edge]

Mischaracterization, Correll. You make a premise then a conclusion but fail to link them together with logic and analysis, two tools the which you flatly don't comprehend. Make the connection.

Disir, the LTC is talking about our volunteer army that gives a president the opportunity to act like a Casear and dispatch troops just as Bush did.

95% of all Americans killed during a wars, died when there was a draft. A Draft does not make the United States less likely to engage in war. If it were true, there is no way that the United States would have entered the Korean and Vietnam wars.

The population of America was much greater, the wars were overseas, and the technology much more powerful.

None of that has anything to do with a draft.

We are very fortunate the Iraqis did not have the capacity or ability or professionalism of the Nazis or the Japanese.

None of that addresses his point that having "skin in the game" did not lead to anti-war policies.

It did in Vietnam finally when poppa and momma realized that the draft for which it was constructed was being misued.

One, you want an imperial presidency with a volunteer army because you are a neo-con.

Two, a draft would end that nonsense as long as the electorate stays aware.

Having a draft did not stop the United States from entering the Korean war and Vietnam War. It literally had no effect. 95% of all military deaths since the country was formed in 1776 happened during the years when the country had a draft. The draft has NEVER deterred the United States from entering a war.

If you had an military that was drafted today instead of volunteers, you would still only have 1.5 million in the military unless you were willing to massively expand the defense budget in order to get more people in the military.

A military of 1.5 million draftees instead of volunteers is still a tiny segment of the population, much small than it was during Vietnam and Korea. The all draft military would not be as capable as the all volunteer military and would still only represent a tiny fraction of the U.S. population unless, you would be willing to massively increase defense spending to have a larger military!

 

[CremeBrulee]

Terrible idea. Volunteer work would be much better. Have them complete a tour in a national service organization or lower the standards for entry into the Peace Corps. Life experience could count towards the requirement because there are many that are already participating in volunteer activities. The first few weeks of Basic is spent weeding out all the fuck ups that don't want to be there while everyone else suffers. An influx of these people would only drag the military down. Draftees make poor soldiers and even worse Battle Buddies.

 

[U2Edge]

The military service and training forms a basic structure for young citizens much better than E Mail and Texting. Video games are a no brainer.

Israel requires this of all their young men and women and they seem to turn out pretty well.

Also.....the bunch of chicken hawks in the congress would think twice if they were sending their own to some godforsaken desert or mountain range to get wounded or die.

Israel requires this because they are surrounded by enemies & its a matter of national survival. For the most part, we have peaceful borders. Also, the concept of a professional military with volunteers has worked out very well for us. Conscripts generally are problem children for units. It is an unsavory problem to have. Additionally, the military is currently downsizing so unless that is addressed, this idea isn't happening. I do agree the kids in this country need to be somehow invested in its future.

The problem is that the volunteer Army is beholden to the President and not the families of America as a whole. It is a neo-con's wet dream: ask Correll and Jroc.

The current active military force is 1.5 million. It is all volunteer. If you made that 1.5 million all draft, you still only have a tiny segment of America serving beholden to the President and not the families of America as a whole. Understand?

 

[hjmick]

Here, let me boil this thread down to its base element, save everyone some time...


BOOOOSH!

 

[U2Edge]

The military service and training forms a basic structure for young citizens much better than E Mail and Texting. Video games are a no brainer.

Israel requires this of all their young men and women and they seem to turn out pretty well.

Also.....the bunch of chicken hawks in the congress would think twice if they were sending their own to some godforsaken desert or mountain range to get wounded or die.

Israel requires this because they are surrounded by enemies & its a matter of national survival. For the most part, we have peaceful borders. Also, the concept of a professional military with volunteers has worked out very well for us. Conscripts generally are problem children for units. It is an unsavory problem to have. Additionally, the military is currently downsizing so unless that is addressed, this idea isn't happening. I do agree the kids in this country need to be somehow invested in its future.

The problem is that the volunteer Army is beholden to the President and not the families of America as a whole. It is a neo-con's wet dream: ask Correll and Jroc.

That's because the President is Commander-in-Chief & at the top of the chain of command. It's right there in the Constitution which I encourage you to make yourself aware of. However, the power to declare war resides in Congress. The concept of civilian control of the military goes back to the founding of the republic & is in place for good reason. I have no idea what you mean by families of America. That has nothing to do with the discussion. If you don't like the Commander-in-chief, we have elections to address that. The all-volunteer force has served us well.

It's clear you don't understand that our leaders are subjec to our voters, and make the voters fully aware of the risks to their drafted children will make the leaders much more concious in making good decisions.

You don't read well, do you. I bet your teachers have always noted that in your records.

If a draft made U.S. lawmakers less likely to enter wars, why did the United States enter Korea and then enter Vietnam. The draft has NEVER deterred U.S. lawmakers from voting for war!

 

[U2Edge]

Counter proposal compromise: every politician at any level must be a veteran. If you're going to vote to support a war, havnig some idea of what war is actually like might be a good idea.

That would mean that out of the current 21 people running for President on the Democratic and Republican sides, only two would be elegible for the office of President. Jim Webb and Lindsey Graham

 

[Care4all]

The solution is not a draft, but for Congress to follow the constitution, and vote for or against war, with only 2/3's voting yea, in the house and senate, for it to pass...

NO MORE HANDING THIS OFF TO THE PRESIDENT, with just a 50% vote...and giving up their constitutional duty.

Congress only has control over passing a war, but the problem is we don't call them wars any longer. We call them police actions or some such thing.

Technically, we haven't had a war in this country since Vietnam.

we didn't even declare war with viet nam....i think ww2 was the last time congress declared war with 2/3's voting yea.

 

[U2Edge]

Correll mischaracterizes what I am writing.

He is a neo-con, a war monger.

War is a function of the state when necessary.

A draft will make a far more educated, involved citizenry in deciding these issues.

Did the draft make U.S. citizens far more educated back in the 1950s and 1960s when the United States entered Korea and Vietnam? It certainly did not make them less likely to support entering a new war.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The problem is that the volunteer Army is beholden to the President and not the families of America as a whole. It is a neo-con's wet dream: ask Correll and Jroc.

The current active military force is 1.5 million. It is all volunteer. If you made that 1.5 million all draft, you still only have a tiny segment of America serving beholden to the President and not the families of America as a whole. Understand?

Tell that to Johnson and the military industrial complex who had to give up a draft because they misused it, by the families of America at the voting booth.

An all volunteer military is a presiden'ts wet dream.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's clear you don't understand that our leaders are subjec to our voters, and make the voters fully aware of the risks to their drafted children will make the leaders much more concious in making good decisions.

You don't read well, do you. I bet your teachers have always noted that in your records.

If a draft made U.S. lawmakers less likely to enter wars, why did the United States enter Korea and then enter Vietnam. The draft has NEVER deterred U.S. lawmakers from voting for war!

WWI and WWII were widely supported, Korea ended relatively quickly (three years), and Vietnam woke the American electorate up to the misuse of the draft. Then it went back to sleep. If we let the neo-cons and the military industrial complex keep a war machine in place without impact of the overwhelming number of American families, the USA will be in a constant state of war.

The peace corps or military requirement are certainly good alternatives. Anything that wakes folks up that we have Americans who will kill other Americans on the altar of greed under the cover of the flag is fine by me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The solution is not a draft, but for Congress to follow the constitution, and vote for or against war, with only 2/3's voting yea, in the house and senate, for it to pass...

NO MORE HANDING THIS OFF TO THE PRESIDENT, with just a 50% vote...and giving up their constitutional duty.

Congress only has control over passing a war, but the problem is we don't call them wars any longer. We call them police actions or some such thing.

Technically, we haven't had a war in this country since Vietnam.

we didn't even declare war with viet nam....i think ww2 was the last time congress declared war with 2/3's voting yea.

Correct. That was my mistake. I type too fast sometimes. LOL!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Counter proposal compromise: every politician at any level must be a veteran. If you're going to vote to support a war, havnig some idea of what war is actually like might be a good idea.

That would mean that out of the current 21 people running for President on the Democratic and Republican sides, only two would be elegible for the office of President. Jim Webb and Lindsey Graham

That is a sobering thought.

 

[Correll]

Just Read It And Weep:

George W. Bush, Jr. - The Dark Side

Couldn't make it past that. Laughing too hard that you think "The Dark Side" would be a credible source. I'm not a huge fan but I have to admit Bush shortened the lives of many many liberals, collectively thousands of years, with the bile eating up their insides. Funny thing is fiscally, libs got everything they wanted.

Yep....I cleared over $100,000 in the stock market but the reason I did was that when the market began to crash in 2008 I took everything out and put it in a stable bond fund. Then when the DOW was at about 8800 I put everything back in. Did you notice how well the stock market has done under the guy with the good tan?

Bush shortened the lives all the way to zero for 4500 young Americans who died in Iraq while another 35,000 were being seriously wounded. You folks have watched Fox News so much that you don't even recognize the truth.

The truth is that Dims voted for it, Iraq was under control, which was a HUGE success from what it was and what it meant for middle east stability. Did you notice how the guy with a tan fucked it up. Did you notice how Putin has been banging obbie's tonsils on his tool and doing whatever he wants in Syria and Ukraine?

The stock market can collapse any day, we learned nothing.

Your massive display of ignorance proves to me that you didn't watch the president's press conference today. Do you foolish people ever watch anything except Fox News?

Fox reminds me of the little boy who cried "Wolf" all the time. The difference....watching Fox is like a never ending series of crying Wolf.

Do you realize that when Obama took over the stock market was about to bottom. Do you realize that Bush had just handed the most powerful financial institutions in the world $800 billion? Do you realize that the economy was bleeding off 750,000 jobs a month?

Now the stock market has almost doubled, we've had 66 consecutive months of job growth, unemployment is down to 5.1% and Obama's increase in spending has been better than any of the modern presidents before him. 'Course closing down two hot wars 10,000 miles away has a tendency to reduce spending.....almost every time.

So is having a Republican Congress. You know Congress--the people with the United States checkbook? It's the same party that ran Congress most of the Clinton years.

Gridlock seems to be the key.

If the President and the Congress are the same party, the temptation to use government funds to buy votes seems to great to resist.

 

[Correll]

Terrible idea. Volunteer work would be much better. Have them complete a tour in a national service organization or lower the standards for entry into the Peace Corps. Life experience could count towards the requirement because there are many that are already participating in volunteer activities. The first few weeks of Basic is spent weeding out all the fuck ups that don't want to be there while everyone else suffers. An influx of these people would only drag the military down. Draftees make poor soldiers and even worse Battle Buddies.

Or, lets not enslave our young.

 

[JakeStarkey]

American conscripted armies defeated the South, the Japanese, the Italians, and the Germans.

They were poorly used in Korea and Vietnam.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Couldn't make it past that. Laughing too hard that you think "The Dark Side" would be a credible source. I'm not a huge fan but I have to admit Bush shortened the lives of many many liberals, collectively thousands of years, with the bile eating up their insides. Funny thing is fiscally, libs got everything they wanted.

Yep....I cleared over $100,000 in the stock market but the reason I did was that when the market began to crash in 2008 I took everything out and put it in a stable bond fund. Then when the DOW was at about 8800 I put everything back in. Did you notice how well the stock market has done under the guy with the good tan?

Bush shortened the lives all the way to zero for 4500 young Americans who died in Iraq while another 35,000 were being seriously wounded. You folks have watched Fox News so much that you don't even recognize the truth.

The truth is that Dims voted for it, Iraq was under control, which was a HUGE success from what it was and what it meant for middle east stability. Did you notice how the guy with a tan fucked it up. Did you notice how Putin has been banging obbie's tonsils on his tool and doing whatever he wants in Syria and Ukraine?

The stock market can collapse any day, we learned nothing.

Your massive display of ignorance proves to me that you didn't watch the president's press conference today. Do you foolish people ever watch anything except Fox News?

Fox reminds me of the little boy who cried "Wolf" all the time. The difference....watching Fox is like a never ending series of crying Wolf.

Do you realize that when Obama took over the stock market was about to bottom. Do you realize that Bush had just handed the most powerful financial institutions in the world $800 billion? Do you realize that the economy was bleeding off 750,000 jobs a month?

Now the stock market has almost doubled, we've had 66 consecutive months of job growth, unemployment is down to 5.1% and Obama's increase in spending has been better than any of the modern presidents before him. 'Course closing down two hot wars 10,000 miles away has a tendency to reduce spending.....almost every time.

So is having a Republican Congress. You know Congress--the people with the United States checkbook? It's the same party that ran Congress most of the Clinton years.

Gridlock seems to be the key.

If the President and the Congress are the same party, the temptation to use government funds to buy votes seems to great to resist.

No, I think what gets them to get in line is pissed-off voters that start paying attention. That's what happened in the Clinton years with he introduction of Hillary Care and also during Obama's administration when Democrats started to spend money like it was going out of style. During the Bush years when the Republican Congress started to act like Democrats with things like the Bridge To Nowhere and the following housing crash, people about had enough.

This is a good thing though. The problem in our country is too many people not paying attention. Imagine how great this country would run if we voted on how our representatives were acting instead of just by party.