Everyone making less then 25,000 per year

[Skull Pilot]

Couple of things. First, well kind of hard to work you way through college when tuition is so high. Perhaps you can blame those student loans for that. Of course, like damn near everything else these days, calling them "student" loans was NEWSPEAK. They were created and intended for the parents, the wealthy parents that had saved for college. The "student" loan allowed them to borrow the money for school and invest the money they had saved, hopefully at a better return than the student loan and especially with the government subsidizing the interest. Then, again like damn near everything else, it got out of hand. Now it has evolved into a massive wealth extraction system even including special garnishment rights that no other debt contains.

Your argument kind of reminds me of a certain ancient ass old Republican congresswoman in the neighboring district. Heard her moan the same question, why can't those students work their way through college. She did it. Worked in the summer and paid her tuition. Clueless bitch, her tuition, in the 1960's, was a whomping one hundred dollars. I went to the same school in the 80's, total cost, around seven grand a year, total cost. Today, two sons in the same state university system, twenty five grand a year total cost PER STUDENT. Which brings me to the second thing.

It can be done. I am mighty proud to say that the oldest one has been soloing it for the last two years. On is own accord, not because I couldn't help. But he has had to borrow a little bit, he has gotten some merit scholarships, and he has one of the best internship in the industry. The point is that it is damn hard to do and might near impossible to do it without borrowing money.

never heard of going to college part time ?

Yeah. About the only way to complete graduate work. But not a big fan of it at the undergraduate level.

doesn't mater at any level
besides since more than 40% of college freshmen do not graduate it's ridiculous to have financial aid pay for the first 2 years of college.
It should be that the first 2 years have to be paid for by the student then financial aid is for the people who make it to junior year

that way 40% of funding is not wasted

I've posed a similar situation to those pushing "free" college. I asked what about those to which the "investment" is provided that don't finish and the money is wasted. The response I've received is to the affect of all your personal investments don't work out do they. To which I reply, the difference is if I make a personal investment and lose, it was my choice.

The fallacy in your argument is that those that don't finish don't benefit from the experience.

I don't care if they benefit or not.
If a person just wants to take a semester or two of college classes he can do it on his own

 

[Slyhunter]

Everyone making less then 25,000 per year should get $300...

Feel free to use your own money.

The 8 men who own half the worlds wealth should help those who can't help themselves help themselves.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Everyone making less then 25,000 per year should get $300...

Feel free to use your own money.

The 8 men who own half the worlds wealth should help those who can't help themselves help themselves.

why?
what did you ever do for them?

 

[Conservative65]

My youngest son asked me about entering the work world at eighteen with no college education or join the.military, etc. I would have none of it. And he has thanked me since. He didn't have to start out on the very bottom. I ensured college was his choice.

YOU insured college for him just as I did for MY children. That's how it should be done not the freebie mindset of Liberal that think you and I that aren't the parents of other kids are more responsible for funding their education than the parents of those kids are.

Reserving education for those whose parents can pay is just plain stupid.

When our economy was based on agriculture, we provided 8th grade.

When we moved to manufacturing, corporations demonstrated that 8th grade was not enough. So, we provided high school - to everyone. In fact, we made high school attendance a requirement.

Now, we're moving to high tech, information, innovation, etc. Not even manufacturing is satisfied with high school anymore. We're still going to have a lot of jobs where high school is sufficient to get a start, but our competitiveness as a nation is depending more and more on college.

Leaving a huge percentage of our kids behind is just plain not acceptable.

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

Well, first of all, some of those parents simply can't.

More importantly, America needs our kids to be educated - regardless of what their parents do or don't do.

The majority of successful corporations are started by college graduates. And, our universities do research powered by students where the results expand existing corporations and create new corporations. Universities create high paying jobs.

Also, the median annual income of a graduate is about $20K higher than that of someone with high school right now, and the median income for a high school graduate is DECREASING while the median income of graduates is increasing.

So, we RECEIVE income tax on those higher salaries while we end up PAYING support for many who are living on the lower earnings of those with high school only.


The point here is that this is for us. This is for America's competitiveness. This is NOT some sort of gift to parents who can't pay. It's how America wins.

Because they can't doesn't mean, by default, it's someone else's job to do it.

If you want someone else's kid educated, pay their tuition to college and prove to me you actually believe it. I believe kids need to be educated. In fact, I've proven it by doing so for the ONLY two to which I'm responsible for doing so.

Fast Facts

You can link to the source but the key statement within in is, "The 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began their pursuit of a bachelor's degree at a 4-year degree-granting institution in fall 2008 was 60 percent."

A few things stick out that makes you pie in the sky outlook faulty. 1) 6 years to finish a 4 year degree. 2) 60%.

What about the 40% that don't finish. Do we get out money back? How many years should those that aren't parents pay for a person to get a degree?

Something you left out. If the parents can't afford to pay for their own kid's college, that indicates their economic situation is one where those parents, if they pay income taxes at all, contribute so little to the pot that they make no difference in the overall scheme of things. In the end, if what you say occurs, those non paying parents will benefit from an overall gain and her getting something more from society that they didn't contribute to the cause.

There is a local technical college where I live. They are highly regarded and well known for producing qualified students in many areas that, while they may not make millions or even 6 figures, they make very good livings in honorable fields. We provide lottery money to those students. The tuition rate varies based on in state only or within the county since property taxes in the county go to the school. For a 2 year degree, the total costs with lottery applied is $6800 out of pocket. That's cheap based on the return potential. It's also an investment the parents/kids can make toward themselves.

 

[Conservative65]

Everyone making less then 25,000 per year should get $300...

Feel free to use your own money.

The 8 men who own half the worlds wealth should help those who can't help themselves help themselves.

Should they be forced to do it?

What about those that won't help themselves and whose continued bad choices caused their situation?

 

[Conservative65]

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

We're expecting you to do this for YOUR COUNTRY. For YOUR ECONOMY, and for the FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

The US needs educated workers. Period.

All I ever hear from conservatives is "me, me, me". Not one of you says "What would be best for my country?", or "What would help my country to be more successful". It's all about YOU.

I'm expecting those that want someone else to provide to their kids to do this for THEIR COUNTY, THEIR ECONOMY, AND THEIR CHILDREN.

You support the children of parents that won't pay for their own kid's education to get something else handed to them and you chastise me for wanting to keep more of what I'VE earned. I'm not demanding something I didn't earn. They are. That means those freeloaders are all about them, them, them.

Are you willing to say those freeloading parents actually give a shit about those of us constantly expected to do for them? Are you willing to say those freeloading parents are really concerned about what's good for their country? The answer to both is no. They're concerned with themselves and you have no problem with those pieces of shit doing exactly what you chastise me for doing. What makes it worse is you somehow thing what I earned, someone that provided his own college and his own kid's college, belongs more to someone else than it does to the one that earned it.

If YOU care so much for them, pay their tuition. I'd say your unwillingness to do so voluntarily proves you don't care about anyone but yourself.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So you think humans that work but can't afford to feed their goddamn families are animals? Yet, you call yourself a christian? You can burn in hell you nasty piece of shit. Fuck you.

Simpleton.

Don't have a family that you can't support.

You're suggesting personal responsibility to MoronMatthew????

No wonder he's incensed!

 

[Conservative65]

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

We're expecting you to do this for YOUR COUNTRY. For YOUR ECONOMY, and for the FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

The US needs educated workers. Period.

All I ever hear from conservatives is "me, me, me". Not one of you says "What would be best for my country?", or "What would help my country to be more successful". It's all about YOU.

That's all we're getting from Trump, too, by the way.

He's ruling based on what he thinks would be best for white billionaires like himself. Period.

The fact that he has time and inclination to tweet personal attacks is telling.

Are you claiming the freeloading parents that won't pay for their own kid's college and would get this give a shit about anyone but themselves?

As far as what you call attacks, perhaps you forgot that one of the Democrat plantation House negroes called him illegitimate. Perhaps Lewis should be more concerned about the illegitimacy rate of his own people, which is 3/4 as of today, than whining because the person he wanted to win didn't win.

 

[Conservative65]

Everyone making less then 25,000 per year should get $300 per month in food stamps and be allowed to take skill based classes at their local community college backed by the tax payers. Skill based is computer, business, or any classes that help them get a better job to boost their income upwards.

This is the right thing to do....

Time to start helping people instead of hurting them.

It's time people start helping themselves instead of demanding all their miserable lives that someone else do it for them.

Guess you have no issue with your taxes helping foreigners in another country then right? Bit retarded. Lets help poor people in a foreign country but not a poor person here.

I can agree with the OP, with one caveat. If you take this deal, you have a 5 year limit for food stamps and educational assistance.

And as for what sort of classes, skip the computer or business classes. The chances of that helping them is slim to none.

Give them training in a trade. Teach them skills such as plumbing, welding, laying brick, splicing fiber optics, or any one of a dozen vocational training classes that will give them a real job and a future.

I know in West Va if you get TANF you only get it for 5 years and you MUST get a job,volunteer or attend school of some kind.

No, let's let that foreign country help their poor people as they see fit and you provide anything you wish to a poor person using your money.

Do conservatives REALLY not understand that ALL of our taxes go wherever the government says and not where WE say they should go? I really overestimate the IQ of most people obviously...things I realize as OBVIOUS,must not be as obvious to everyone else which is just sad. I see the value in BOOSTING people UP with teaching them skills others I guess don't. They complain about welfare that comes from our taxes and isn't going to end but don't want to end that by pushing for the taxes to go towards teaching a skill instead of just giving away welfare.

YOUR kids are not my financial responsibility, is that obvious enough for you? Keep your deadbeat mooching hands off my money.

They constantly say what they support will help the country yet ignore situations where what they said would happen failed.

 

[Winston]

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

We're expecting you to do this for YOUR COUNTRY. For YOUR ECONOMY, and for the FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

The US needs educated workers. Period.

All I ever hear from conservatives is "me, me, me". Not one of you says "What would be best for my country?", or "What would help my country to be more successful". It's all about YOU.

I'm expecting those that want someone else to provide to their kids to do this for THEIR COUNTY, THEIR ECONOMY, AND THEIR CHILDREN.

You support the children of parents that won't pay for their own kid's education to get something else handed to them and you chastise me for wanting to keep more of what I'VE earned. I'm not demanding something I didn't earn. They are. That means those freeloaders are all about them, them, them.

Are you willing to say those freeloading parents actually give a shit about those of us constantly expected to do for them? Are you willing to say those freeloading parents are really concerned about what's good for their country? The answer to both is no. They're concerned with themselves and you have no problem with those pieces of shit doing exactly what you chastise me for doing. What makes it worse is you somehow thing what I earned, someone that provided his own college and his own kid's college, belongs more to someone else than it does to the one that earned it.

If YOU care so much for them, pay their tuition. I'd say your unwillingness to do so voluntarily proves you don't care about anyone but yourself.

You know, you have to wonder why those Republicans that drafted North Carolina's constitution during reconstruction put in the requirement that a higher education be free as far as practical.

See, what we need is for our most successful, our brightest, and our most motivated students attending four year universities. Is that what we got? No, we have students from families with money attending those universities. See, I got a problem when a student from a family making 25 grand a year and a SAT score of 1400 out of 1600 is not going to college because his family can't afford it while the rich kid who struggles to get to 1000 does attend.

And the skyrocketing cost of tuition. No, it is not because of the student loans. It is because universities are no longer places motivated teens go to get a higher education. They are places helicopter parents get to send their kids for four years of babysitting. Colleges don't spend much money on professors and research compared to what they spend to entice those parents and teens to their babysitting operation. Have you visited High Point University here in North Carolina? Tuition is up there with Davidson and Duke. Not because of their high quality education but because it is like a damn country club. Hell, they got one of them ice cream trucks that you used to run to when it came in your neighborhood--and the ice cream is FREE.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Everyone making less then 25,000 per year should get $300...

Feel free to use your own money.

The 8 men who own half the worlds wealth should help those who can't help themselves help themselves.

why?
what did you ever do for them?

"Well, because I'm a lazy, unmotivated piece of shit and I'm standing here with a sad face and a hand out. Liberals tell me that you're suppose to drop something in my hand and allow me to steal from your wallet...THAT'S WHY!"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Is a loser.

 

[Conservative65]

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

We're expecting you to do this for YOUR COUNTRY. For YOUR ECONOMY, and for the FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

The US needs educated workers. Period.

All I ever hear from conservatives is "me, me, me". Not one of you says "What would be best for my country?", or "What would help my country to be more successful". It's all about YOU.

I'm expecting those that want someone else to provide to their kids to do this for THEIR COUNTY, THEIR ECONOMY, AND THEIR CHILDREN.

You support the children of parents that won't pay for their own kid's education to get something else handed to them and you chastise me for wanting to keep more of what I'VE earned. I'm not demanding something I didn't earn. They are. That means those freeloaders are all about them, them, them.

Are you willing to say those freeloading parents actually give a shit about those of us constantly expected to do for them? Are you willing to say those freeloading parents are really concerned about what's good for their country? The answer to both is no. They're concerned with themselves and you have no problem with those pieces of shit doing exactly what you chastise me for doing. What makes it worse is you somehow thing what I earned, someone that provided his own college and his own kid's college, belongs more to someone else than it does to the one that earned it.

If YOU care so much for them, pay their tuition. I'd say your unwillingness to do so voluntarily proves you don't care about anyone but yourself.

You know, you have to wonder why those Republicans that drafted North Carolina's constitution during reconstruction put in the requirement that a higher education be free as far as practical.

See, what we need is for our most successful, our brightest, and our most motivated students attending four year universities. Is that what we got? No, we have students from families with money attending those universities. See, I got a problem when a student from a family making 25 grand a year and a SAT score of 1400 out of 1600 is not going to college because his family can't afford it while the rich kid who struggles to get to 1000 does attend.

And the skyrocketing cost of tuition. No, it is not because of the student loans. It is because universities are no longer places motivated teens go to get a higher education. They are places helicopter parents get to send their kids for four years of babysitting. Colleges don't spend much money on professors and research compared to what they spend to entice those parents and teens to their babysitting operation. Have you visited High Point University here in North Carolina? Tuition is up there with Davidson and Duke. Not because of their high quality education but because it is like a damn country club. Hell, they got one of them ice cream trucks that you used to run to when it came in your neighborhood--and the ice cream is FREE.

If you have a big problem with that student not going to college, I have an easy solution. Write a check from your account on his/her behalf. See how simple that is? You get what you what want and I don't have to help pay for it. We're both winners.

By the way, I practice/practiced that very thing with myself, my wife, and both daughters. When the scholarships received on our behalf didn't cover the entire costs, I wrote a check.

When my youngest finishes in two years, between the 4 of us, we'll have 9 degrees ranging from undergraduate to a doctorate. Interesting thing is we haven't had nor will we have a dime in loans. Earned scholarships on our behalf paid for the vast majority of it and I wrote a check for the rest. That means I did nothing less than what I expect of anyone else on behalf of their family. Because they can't/won't doesn't automatically default to it being the responsibility of someone else unless that someone else voluntarily pays it. There's your opportunity to prove you truly believe in what you say about someone going.

 

[Winston]

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

We're expecting you to do this for YOUR COUNTRY. For YOUR ECONOMY, and for the FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

The US needs educated workers. Period.

All I ever hear from conservatives is "me, me, me". Not one of you says "What would be best for my country?", or "What would help my country to be more successful". It's all about YOU.

I'm expecting those that want someone else to provide to their kids to do this for THEIR COUNTY, THEIR ECONOMY, AND THEIR CHILDREN.

You support the children of parents that won't pay for their own kid's education to get something else handed to them and you chastise me for wanting to keep more of what I'VE earned. I'm not demanding something I didn't earn. They are. That means those freeloaders are all about them, them, them.

Are you willing to say those freeloading parents actually give a shit about those of us constantly expected to do for them? Are you willing to say those freeloading parents are really concerned about what's good for their country? The answer to both is no. They're concerned with themselves and you have no problem with those pieces of shit doing exactly what you chastise me for doing. What makes it worse is you somehow thing what I earned, someone that provided his own college and his own kid's college, belongs more to someone else than it does to the one that earned it.

If YOU care so much for them, pay their tuition. I'd say your unwillingness to do so voluntarily proves you don't care about anyone but yourself.

You know, you have to wonder why those Republicans that drafted North Carolina's constitution during reconstruction put in the requirement that a higher education be free as far as practical.

See, what we need is for our most successful, our brightest, and our most motivated students attending four year universities. Is that what we got? No, we have students from families with money attending those universities. See, I got a problem when a student from a family making 25 grand a year and a SAT score of 1400 out of 1600 is not going to college because his family can't afford it while the rich kid who struggles to get to 1000 does attend.

And the skyrocketing cost of tuition. No, it is not because of the student loans. It is because universities are no longer places motivated teens go to get a higher education. They are places helicopter parents get to send their kids for four years of babysitting. Colleges don't spend much money on professors and research compared to what they spend to entice those parents and teens to their babysitting operation. Have you visited High Point University here in North Carolina? Tuition is up there with Davidson and Duke. Not because of their high quality education but because it is like a damn country club. Hell, they got one of them ice cream trucks that you used to run to when it came in your neighborhood--and the ice cream is FREE.

If you have a big problem with that student not going to college, I have an easy solution. Write a check from your account on his/her behalf. See how simple that is? You get what you what want and I don't have to help pay for it. We're both winners.

By the way, I practice/practiced that very thing with myself, my wife, and both daughters. When the scholarships received on our behalf didn't cover the entire costs, I wrote a check.

When my youngest finishes in two years, between the 4 of us, we'll have 9 degrees ranging from undergraduate to a doctorate. Interesting thing is we haven't had nor will we have a dime in loans. Earned scholarships on our behalf paid for the vast majority of it and I wrote a check for the rest. That means I did nothing less than what I expect of anyone else on behalf of their family. Because they can't/won't doesn't automatically default to it being the responsibility of someone else unless that someone else voluntarily pays it. There's your opportunity to prove you truly believe in what you say about someone going.

That is pretty impressive. I have done nothing less. But let me tell you about my oldest son. The one that has been paying his own way since his Junior year.

As a freshman he stayed in a learning community. Kind of a suite--four rooms and two baths. Eight guys. Every year since he has roomed with three of the other seven. Two of them come from very well off families. Professionals, highly educated. All four, luckily, are kick ass students. All four graduating with various engineering degrees on time, which is actually pretty rare. But here is the surprising part--all four are paying their own way. Loans, jobs, scholarships. No parent money. It is like they made some kind of pact or something.

That is the way it should be. And hell, maybe that is the way it is for engineering degrees at highly competitive state institutions. But that is the way it should be for everyone with every degree. It should not be rare, it should be the ordinary.

 

[Dragonlady]

That is the way it should be. And hell, maybe that is the way it is for engineering degrees at highly competitive state institutions. But that is the way it should be for everyone with every degree. It should not be rare, it should be the ordinary.

I love how conservatives constantly quote exceptions, and say that everyone should be exceptional.

American students are now graduating university with more debt than in history. Carrying that debt is keeping them living at home longer, and acts as a ball and chain on their ability to build their lives beyond university. No previous generation has every been subjected to that kind of debt.

When I was working towards my business degree, the tuition was $2,000 per year, an amount I was able to earn over the summer. Today, that same program is $26,000 a year.

It's great that all you graduates are able to help their kids, but 5 million jobs are going begging because people don't have the skills to fill them. Wouldn't it be better/smarter to help people qualify for these jobs.

America is losing out on jobs because your workers don't have the skills or the ability to do these jobs. Companies are locating in Europe and Asia where the workers are well educated and capable.

You say you want America to be a strong successful country, but you don't want to contribute to that happening, you want everyone to do it for themselves. As poverty increases, as jobs go begging, all you care about is politicizing your education system to turn out good little conservatives who deny science, believe in Creationism, and don't want to make money solving man-made climate change.

No wonder your country is in decline. Me, me, me. This is the essence of JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country".

Your education system is failing, not because it has a liberal bias, but because you're more concerned about the politics than the need for skills.

 

[Conservative65]

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

We're expecting you to do this for YOUR COUNTRY. For YOUR ECONOMY, and for the FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

The US needs educated workers. Period.

All I ever hear from conservatives is "me, me, me". Not one of you says "What would be best for my country?", or "What would help my country to be more successful". It's all about YOU.

I'm expecting those that want someone else to provide to their kids to do this for THEIR COUNTY, THEIR ECONOMY, AND THEIR CHILDREN.

You support the children of parents that won't pay for their own kid's education to get something else handed to them and you chastise me for wanting to keep more of what I'VE earned. I'm not demanding something I didn't earn. They are. That means those freeloaders are all about them, them, them.

Are you willing to say those freeloading parents actually give a shit about those of us constantly expected to do for them? Are you willing to say those freeloading parents are really concerned about what's good for their country? The answer to both is no. They're concerned with themselves and you have no problem with those pieces of shit doing exactly what you chastise me for doing. What makes it worse is you somehow thing what I earned, someone that provided his own college and his own kid's college, belongs more to someone else than it does to the one that earned it.

If YOU care so much for them, pay their tuition. I'd say your unwillingness to do so voluntarily proves you don't care about anyone but yourself.

You know, you have to wonder why those Republicans that drafted North Carolina's constitution during reconstruction put in the requirement that a higher education be free as far as practical.

See, what we need is for our most successful, our brightest, and our most motivated students attending four year universities. Is that what we got? No, we have students from families with money attending those universities. See, I got a problem when a student from a family making 25 grand a year and a SAT score of 1400 out of 1600 is not going to college because his family can't afford it while the rich kid who struggles to get to 1000 does attend.

And the skyrocketing cost of tuition. No, it is not because of the student loans. It is because universities are no longer places motivated teens go to get a higher education. They are places helicopter parents get to send their kids for four years of babysitting. Colleges don't spend much money on professors and research compared to what they spend to entice those parents and teens to their babysitting operation. Have you visited High Point University here in North Carolina? Tuition is up there with Davidson and Duke. Not because of their high quality education but because it is like a damn country club. Hell, they got one of them ice cream trucks that you used to run to when it came in your neighborhood--and the ice cream is FREE.

If you have a big problem with that student not going to college, I have an easy solution. Write a check from your account on his/her behalf. See how simple that is? You get what you what want and I don't have to help pay for it. We're both winners.

By the way, I practice/practiced that very thing with myself, my wife, and both daughters. When the scholarships received on our behalf didn't cover the entire costs, I wrote a check.

When my youngest finishes in two years, between the 4 of us, we'll have 9 degrees ranging from undergraduate to a doctorate. Interesting thing is we haven't had nor will we have a dime in loans. Earned scholarships on our behalf paid for the vast majority of it and I wrote a check for the rest. That means I did nothing less than what I expect of anyone else on behalf of their family. Because they can't/won't doesn't automatically default to it being the responsibility of someone else unless that someone else voluntarily pays it. There's your opportunity to prove you truly believe in what you say about someone going.

That is pretty impressive. I have done nothing less. But let me tell you about my oldest son. The one that has been paying his own way since his Junior year.

As a freshman he stayed in a learning community. Kind of a suite--four rooms and two baths. Eight guys. Every year since he has roomed with three of the other seven. Two of them come from very well off families. Professionals, highly educated. All four, luckily, are kick ass students. All four graduating with various engineering degrees on time, which is actually pretty rare. But here is the surprising part--all four are paying their own way. Loans, jobs, scholarships. No parent money. It is like they made some kind of pact or something.

That is the way it should be. And hell, maybe that is the way it is for engineering degrees at highly competitive state institutions. But that is the way it should be for everyone with every degree. It should not be rare, it should be the ordinary.

That's why when I say what I do, I'm not expecting anything from anyone that I haven't done myself.

 

[WillReadmore]

My youngest son asked me about entering the work world at eighteen with no college education or join the.military, etc. I would have none of it. And he has thanked me since. He didn't have to start out on the very bottom. I ensured college was his choice.

YOU insured college for him just as I did for MY children. That's how it should be done not the freebie mindset of Liberal that think you and I that aren't the parents of other kids are more responsible for funding their education than the parents of those kids are.

Reserving education for those whose parents can pay is just plain stupid.

When our economy was based on agriculture, we provided 8th grade.

When we moved to manufacturing, corporations demonstrated that 8th grade was not enough. So, we provided high school - to everyone. In fact, we made high school attendance a requirement.

Now, we're moving to high tech, information, innovation, etc. Not even manufacturing is satisfied with high school anymore. We're still going to have a lot of jobs where high school is sufficient to get a start, but our competitiveness as a nation is depending more and more on college.

Leaving a huge percentage of our kids behind is just plain not acceptable.

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

Well, first of all, some of those parents simply can't.

More importantly, America needs our kids to be educated - regardless of what their parents do or don't do.

The majority of successful corporations are started by college graduates. And, our universities do research powered by students where the results expand existing corporations and create new corporations. Universities create high paying jobs.

Also, the median annual income of a graduate is about $20K higher than that of someone with high school right now, and the median income for a high school graduate is DECREASING while the median income of graduates is increasing.

So, we RECEIVE income tax on those higher salaries while we end up PAYING support for many who are living on the lower earnings of those with high school only.


The point here is that this is for us. This is for America's competitiveness. This is NOT some sort of gift to parents who can't pay. It's how America wins.

Because they can't doesn't mean, by default, it's someone else's job to do it.

If you want someone else's kid educated, pay their tuition to college and prove to me you actually believe it. I believe kids need to be educated. In fact, I've proven it by doing so for the ONLY two to which I'm responsible for doing so.

Fast Facts

You can link to the source but the key statement within in is, "The 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began their pursuit of a bachelor's degree at a 4-year degree-granting institution in fall 2008 was 60 percent."

A few things stick out that makes you pie in the sky outlook faulty. 1) 6 years to finish a 4 year degree. 2) 60%.

What about the 40% that don't finish. Do we get out money back? How many years should those that aren't parents pay for a person to get a degree?

Something you left out. If the parents can't afford to pay for their own kid's college, that indicates their economic situation is one where those parents, if they pay income taxes at all, contribute so little to the pot that they make no difference in the overall scheme of things. In the end, if what you say occurs, those non paying parents will benefit from an overall gain and her getting something more from society that they didn't contribute to the cause.

There is a local technical college where I live. They are highly regarded and well known for producing qualified students in many areas that, while they may not make millions or even 6 figures, they make very good livings in honorable fields. We provide lottery money to those students. The tuition rate varies based on in state only or within the county since property taxes in the county go to the school. For a 2 year degree, the total costs with lottery applied is $6800 out of pocket. That's cheap based on the return potential. It's also an investment the parents/kids can make toward themselves.

I think you are FAR too focused on trying to prevent people from getting something you don't think they "deserve". I'd point out that those parents who can't pay may very well be on support - and giving them benefit through their kid being able to support them to some extent might just help us all.

I'm interested in America's future. For that, the focus has to be on getting kids through school so they can take part in our economy. Failing that means MORE TAXES paid from a worse economy.

As Clinton pointed out, that needs to include vocational ed as well, as not everyone is capable or interested in college and as you point out there are good jobs that don't necessarily require college.

I don't know how your local school works - what the lottery does, etc. The tuition you state is barely over 1/3 what is spent on high school in my state. Plus, private schools spend more than that - so if you think that's a lot, I'd point out that no new private high schools are being created, even though there are wait lists for the ones we have.

I do NOT like state lotteries. The poorest third of the population pays for more than half the lottery tickets sold. It's a state run fund raising scheme aimed at taking money from those who are already on state support. It is a sales and marketing program for gambling.

 

[Conservative65]

YOU insured college for him just as I did for MY children. That's how it should be done not the freebie mindset of Liberal that think you and I that aren't the parents of other kids are more responsible for funding their education than the parents of those kids are.

Reserving education for those whose parents can pay is just plain stupid.

When our economy was based on agriculture, we provided 8th grade.

When we moved to manufacturing, corporations demonstrated that 8th grade was not enough. So, we provided high school - to everyone. In fact, we made high school attendance a requirement.

Now, we're moving to high tech, information, innovation, etc. Not even manufacturing is satisfied with high school anymore. We're still going to have a lot of jobs where high school is sufficient to get a start, but our competitiveness as a nation is depending more and more on college.

Leaving a huge percentage of our kids behind is just plain not acceptable.

Expecting me to do for another person's kids when their own parents won't do it is unacceptable.

I'm not leaving behind the ones for which I'm responsible. I provided their education through college. As for those that aren't my kids, I can't leave someone behind for which no responsibility resides for me to take care of them. If someone loses their house because they don't pay the mortgage, it's not my responsibility to do so. I didn't take out that mortgage just like I didn't have their kids. For me to be responsible for someone else's kids, the only way that happens is if I got the pussy that kid came out of.

Well, first of all, some of those parents simply can't.

More importantly, America needs our kids to be educated - regardless of what their parents do or don't do.

The majority of successful corporations are started by college graduates. And, our universities do research powered by students where the results expand existing corporations and create new corporations. Universities create high paying jobs.

Also, the median annual income of a graduate is about $20K higher than that of someone with high school right now, and the median income for a high school graduate is DECREASING while the median income of graduates is increasing.

So, we RECEIVE income tax on those higher salaries while we end up PAYING support for many who are living on the lower earnings of those with high school only.


The point here is that this is for us. This is for America's competitiveness. This is NOT some sort of gift to parents who can't pay. It's how America wins.

Because they can't doesn't mean, by default, it's someone else's job to do it.

If you want someone else's kid educated, pay their tuition to college and prove to me you actually believe it. I believe kids need to be educated. In fact, I've proven it by doing so for the ONLY two to which I'm responsible for doing so.

Fast Facts

You can link to the source but the key statement within in is, "The 6-year graduation rate for first-time, full-time undergraduate students who began their pursuit of a bachelor's degree at a 4-year degree-granting institution in fall 2008 was 60 percent."

A few things stick out that makes you pie in the sky outlook faulty. 1) 6 years to finish a 4 year degree. 2) 60%.

What about the 40% that don't finish. Do we get out money back? How many years should those that aren't parents pay for a person to get a degree?

Something you left out. If the parents can't afford to pay for their own kid's college, that indicates their economic situation is one where those parents, if they pay income taxes at all, contribute so little to the pot that they make no difference in the overall scheme of things. In the end, if what you say occurs, those non paying parents will benefit from an overall gain and her getting something more from society that they didn't contribute to the cause.

There is a local technical college where I live. They are highly regarded and well known for producing qualified students in many areas that, while they may not make millions or even 6 figures, they make very good livings in honorable fields. We provide lottery money to those students. The tuition rate varies based on in state only or within the county since property taxes in the county go to the school. For a 2 year degree, the total costs with lottery applied is $6800 out of pocket. That's cheap based on the return potential. It's also an investment the parents/kids can make toward themselves.

I think you are FAR too focused on trying to prevent people from getting something you don't think they "deserve". I'd point out that those parents who can't pay may very well be on support - and giving them benefit through their kid being able to support them to some extent might just help us all.

I'm interested in America's future. For that, the focus has to be on getting kids through school so they can take part in our economy. Failing that means MORE TAXES paid from a worse economy.

As Clinton pointed out, that needs to include vocational ed as well, as not everyone is capable or interested in college and as you point out there are good jobs that don't necessarily require college.

I don't know how your local school works - what the lottery does, etc. The tuition you state is barely over 1/3 what is spent on high school in my state. Plus, private schools spend more than that - so if you think that's a lot, I'd point out that no new private high schools are being created, even though there are wait lists for the ones we have.

I do NOT like state lotteries. The poorest third of the population pays for more than half the lottery tickets sold. It's a state run fund raising scheme aimed at taking money from those who are already on state support. It is a sales and marketing program for gambling.

So they should get something they don't deserve? Why do you think someone that didn't earn it deserves something funded by those that did earn it? Are you saying that the person that didn't earn it deserves it more and has more of a right to it that the person that did earn it? If you support what you say you support, that's what you're saying.

I don't give a fuck about their situation. They aren't my concern. They should be their own concern. If they don't care enough about their children to do what it takes to help them, I damn sure don't.

Those you say the lottery takes advantage of choose to play it. No one forces them. It's their fault if they play it and lose the money. If someone that is barely surviving and has to do so using social welfare can't think enough to realize that playing the lottery is something they shouldn't do, you weaken your argument about them being a good investment. Why should I be willing to invest in someone that has that low of a cognitive ability?

My local technical college applies lottery funds depending how many hours one takes. For a semester, 16 hours, the out of pocket costs is $1699/semester. It takes 4 semester to get a 2 year degree or just under $6800 total. If someone isn't willing to invest that small amount in him/herself to get something that will produce a return, as you say, I'm not either.

 

[kaz]

And yet, we never hold universities accountable for their exponential increases in tuition and admininstration pay. Why is that? Why do we give them a pass and just look the other way?

why should we?
It's not anyone's business what a private school charges for tuition

Where did she say "private universities?"

So private universities are not included in all universities?

did she specifically say public universities?

When I read her post, it was flagrantly obvious to me that she was referring to public universities. I guess the obvious is more elusive to you.

And her saying "universities" gives you no justification to change that to "private universities"

so even though there was only a mention of universities you assumed it was just public universities

Pure hypocrisy. She said universities and you assumed it was private universities. I pointed out from the context of her post that it's actually clear she was referring to public ones. What she said clearly applied directly to public universities.

And you also whiffed on that private universities get lots of public loan money

 

[Skull Pilot]

why should we?
It's not anyone's business what a private school charges for tuition

Where did she say "private universities?"

So private universities are not included in all universities?

did she specifically say public universities?

When I read her post, it was flagrantly obvious to me that she was referring to public universities. I guess the obvious is more elusive to you.

And her saying "universities" gives you no justification to change that to "private universities"

so even though there was only a mention of universities you assumed it was just public universities

Pure hypocrisy. She said universities and you assumed it was private universities. I pointed out from the context of her post that it's actually clear she was referring to public ones. What she said clearly applied directly to public universities.

And you also whiffed on that private universities get lots of public loan money

No I didn't assume it was private. Since I singled out private in my reply I acknowledged the fact that she was speaking of ALL universities including public

I said what private universities charge for tuition is none of anyone's business
Obviously public universities that use taxpayer dollars are the concern of all taxpayers

And I've already stated that the government should not be guaranteeing any student loans nor should the government be giving money to private universities

As far as government financial aid I already addressed that as well. If we are going to give financial aid (not that I think we should) then it makes no sense to give aid for the first 2 years of college since 40% of Freshmen do not graduate. We should instead only give financial aid to juniors and seniors who have a nearly 100% graduation rate