Evolution Is Not A Theory..........................

[Woyzeck]

We have already mapped the genome. We know what we are and what we came from.

That's funny (aside from being a lie) because the principle player in mapping the human genome, the #1 genetecist in the world, believes God created us.

Interestingly enough, one of the original proponents (predating Edwin Hubble, even!) of the Big Bang cosmological theory was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest by the name of Georges Lemaître. When Pope Pius XII tried to say how his theory scientifically validated Catholicism, Lemaître wrote a letter to him stressing the separation of the two.

Even more interesting, one of the proponents to the competing model of a steady state universe was an atheist. Life certainly is full of little ironies, isn't it?

 

[Photonic]

We have already mapped the genome. We know what we are and what we came from.

That's funny (aside from being a lie) because the principle player in mapping the human genome, the #1 genetecist in the world, believes God created us.

If you mean Francis Collins, he subscribes entirely to evolution.

Note that when one of his colleagues was asked if he was a good scientist he said "Let's just say he's a good administrator."

And if you want to do the whole "scientists who believe in God thing." There is nothing wrong with it, but it would be a mistake to use their opinion to validate your religion.

 

[KissMy]

Yes, the earth growing and creating oceans is a much more simpler and reasonable explanation than ancient civilizations often being centered around rivers (the Nile, Euphrates, etc) that would flood annually.

I suppose all the sea life that's existed for millions of years are going to be quite surprised that humans came first before them and the water they lived in.

The moon is also growing. And so are the other planets.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBT8KyWVxj8&feature=channel_video_title"]Moon Growing[/ame]

 

[Woyzeck]

Yes, the earth growing and creating oceans is a much more simpler and reasonable explanation than ancient civilizations often being centered around rivers (the Nile, Euphrates, etc) that would flood annually.

I suppose all the sea life that's existed for millions of years are going to be quite surprised that humans came first before them and the water they lived in.

The moon is also growing. And so are the other planets.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBT8KyWVxj8&feature=channel_video_title"]Moon Growing[/ame]

Youtube does not count as scientifically valid evidence. If you want us to believe planets grow like you say, please provide a link to a reputable scientific journal.

 

[Photonic]

I'll give you an example.


http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1108/1108.5718v1.pdf

 

[Cammmpbell]

and in the case of evolution its a theory

Your statement proves that you absolutely deny all the anthropological reaserch which has been conducted by scientists over the last century. Congratulations

No that statement doesn't prove that. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Scientific theory has a specific meaning in biology, and evolution IS such a theory. Do you understand the weight the word theory has in science? Telling a biologist that "evolution is JUST a theory" would be like telling a criminologist that it's just a theory Jeffrey Dahmer ate people. Doesn't matter what a creationist thinks scientific theory means; they reject the process of science to begin with.

It's just that I was brainwashed with that bullshit from the time I was two years old and now during my latter years find it amusing that 75% of our country's population belives that shit that the Jews wrote and don't even believe themselves:

The entire universe created in six days six thousand years ago

Mankind and dinosaurs on a boat till nearly four mile deep waters
receded/evaporated

Big fish puking up live men

Folks living through a 1200 degree furnace

Seas opening long enough for the white hats to pass then closing on the bad guys

Stone walls falling on command

Evil people instantly being turned into salt

The sun blacked out by a god

5,000 hungry pilgrims plus women and children
being fed with two fish and five loaves then twelve baskets of leftovers collected

Virgin Birth

Healing leprosy by touching

Walking on water

Water into wine

Raising from the dead

Hanging a man up and bleeding him to death only to see
him fit as a fiddle two days later

 

[koshergrl]

We have already mapped the genome. We know what we are and what we came from.

That's funny (aside from being a lie) because the principle player in mapping the human genome, the #1 genetecist in the world, believes God created us.

If you mean Francis Collins, he subscribes entirely to evolution.

Note that when one of his colleagues was asked if he was a good scientist he said "Let's just say he's a good administrator."

And if you want to do the whole "scientists who believe in God thing." There is nothing wrong with it, but it would be a mistake to use their opinion to validate your religion.

I don't believe I contested evolution.
I contested Sky's statement that we know where we come from.

This is where you guys always fail. And I don't need scientists to validate my faith. I just have a problem with retards who make ridiculous claims and pretend their idiocy is scientifically based.

 

[koshergrl]

Your statement proves that you absolutely deny all the anthropological reaserch which has been conducted by scientists over the last century. Congratulations

No that statement doesn't prove that. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Scientific theory has a specific meaning in biology, and evolution IS such a theory. Do you understand the weight the word theory has in science? Telling a biologist that "evolution is JUST a theory" would be like telling a criminologist that it's just a theory Jeffrey Dahmer ate people. Doesn't matter what a creationist thinks scientific theory means; they reject the process of science to begin with.

It's just that I was brainwashed with that bullshit from the time I was two years old and now during my latter years find it amusing that 75% of our country's population belives that shit that the Jews wrote and don't even believe themselves:

The entire universe created in six days six thousand years ago

Mankind and dinosaurs on a boat till nearly four mile deep waters
receded/evaporated

Big fish puking up live men

Folks living through a 1200 degree furnace

Seas opening long enough for the white hats to pass then closing on the bad guys

Stone walls falling on command

Evil people instantly being turned into salt

The sun blacked out by a god

5,000 hungry pilgrims plus women and children
being fed with two fish and five loaves then twelve baskets of leftovers collected

Virgin Birth

Healing leprosy by touching

Walking on water

Water into wine

Raising from the dead

Hanging a man up and bleeding him to death only to see
him fit as a fiddle two days later

I don't know what church you propose had you for 60 years...but I find it amazing that you could be in any church for that long and not have absorbed anything.

There are a couple of people here who are as ignorant of the bible as you are, but at least they don't claim to be well versed in it. You're full of shit, in other words. I don't believe you belonged to any church as long as you say you did and in fact, I don't believe a thing you say. At first I just thought you were kind of a sad person who must come from a backwards family and was abused. It's pretty evident now you're just a liar.

 

[Photonic]

No that statement doesn't prove that. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Scientific theory has a specific meaning in biology, and evolution IS such a theory. Do you understand the weight the word theory has in science? Telling a biologist that "evolution is JUST a theory" would be like telling a criminologist that it's just a theory Jeffrey Dahmer ate people. Doesn't matter what a creationist thinks scientific theory means; they reject the process of science to begin with.

It's just that I was brainwashed with that bullshit from the time I was two years old and now during my latter years find it amusing that 75% of our country's population belives that shit that the Jews wrote and don't even believe themselves:

The entire universe created in six days six thousand years ago

Mankind and dinosaurs on a boat till nearly four mile deep waters
receded/evaporated

Big fish puking up live men

Folks living through a 1200 degree furnace

Seas opening long enough for the white hats to pass then closing on the bad guys

Stone walls falling on command

Evil people instantly being turned into salt

The sun blacked out by a god

5,000 hungry pilgrims plus women and children
being fed with two fish and five loaves then twelve baskets of leftovers collected

Virgin Birth

Healing leprosy by touching

Walking on water

Water into wine

Raising from the dead

Hanging a man up and bleeding him to death only to see
him fit as a fiddle two days later

I don't know what church you propose had you for 60 years...but I find it amazing that you could be in any church for that long and not have absorbed anything.

There are a couple of people here who are as ignorant of the bible as you are, but at least they don't claim to be well versed in it. You're full of shit, in other words. I don't believe you belonged to any church as long as you say you did and in fact, I don't believe a thing you say. At first I just thought you were kind of a sad person who must come from a backwards family and was abused. It's pretty evident now you're just a liar.

I used to be fairly well versed in the Bible, the bookie that I am. However since I have not read it in 15 years (I planned to pick it up and read it again soon, because it is still a fascinating look at the psychology of an ancient society) I will not claim I know specific verses too well, only the general content.

 

[Woyzeck]

That's funny (aside from being a lie) because the principle player in mapping the human genome, the #1 genetecist in the world, believes God created us.

If you mean Francis Collins, he subscribes entirely to evolution.

Note that when one of his colleagues was asked if he was a good scientist he said "Let's just say he's a good administrator."

And if you want to do the whole "scientists who believe in God thing." There is nothing wrong with it, but it would be a mistake to use their opinion to validate your religion.

I don't believe I contested evolution.
I contested Sky's statement that we know where we come from.

This is where you guys always fail. And I don't need scientists to validate my faith. I just have a problem with retards who make ridiculous claims and pretend their idiocy is scientifically based.

But we do know where we come from! We have an awfully nice selection of now extinct inhabitants of the genus homo, and we can ballpark when the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees lived.

 

[Sheldon]

That's funny (aside from being a lie) because the principle player in mapping the human genome, the #1 genetecist in the world, believes God created us.

Name? Francis Collins?

edit:

Proof texting is rarely useful in getting to the truth of something. Francis Collins absolutely believes in God and in the concept of intelligent design as well as also embracing the concept of evolution which I think most believers in God do.

If God chose to create you and me as natural and spiritual beings, and decided to use the mechanism of evolution to accomplish that goal, I think that's incredibly elegant. And because God is outside of space and time, He knew what the outcome was going to be right at the beginning. It's not as if there was a chance it wouldn't work. So where, then, is the discordancy that causes so many people to see these views of science and of spirit as being incompatible? In me, they both exist. They both exist at the same moment in the day. They're not compartmentalized. They are entirely compatible. And they're part of who I am. -- Francis Collins
The Question of God . Other Voices . Francis Collins | PBS

Uh I posted that wikipedia excerpt just to give a little reference on who I was talking about so others wouldn't have to go and google for the same info. Never said he doesn't believe in a god, some scientists do and that's whatever, but it's hard to say he absolutely believes in the concept of ID when he says stuff like this:

Dr. COLLINS: Intelligent design, while a thoughtful, well-argued perspective, I do not think is taking us to the Promised Land. I think this will be an argument which ultimately will not do damage to science; it will do damage to faith. The problem is the examples that intelligent design puts forward we are learning a lot about. And the notion that those are examples of irreducible complexity is showing serious cracks.


This whole interview ties in pretty well to the thread:

As somebody who has watched our own D.N.A. sequence emerge, our own instruction book over the course of the last few years, all three billion letters of our code, and watched how it compares with that of other species, the evidence that comes out of that kind of analysis is overwhelmingly in favor of a single origin of life from which various forms were then derived by a process which seems entirely consistent with Darwin's view of natural selection. By saying that, some people listening to my words will immediately conclude that I must therefore be opposed to any role for god in the process that's not true. But I'm not an advocate of intelligent design, either.

Carlson: Why?

Collins: Intelligent design is a fairly recent arrival on the scene. Been around 15 years or so. It argues that there are certain constructs in biology, certain particular features that can't be explained by evolution because they have irreduceable complexity. Take the eye, for instance. How do you develop something as complicated as the eye by a process of natural selection. It doesn't seem like that would fit with the slow gradual process where small changes get selected for. You'd never get there. The problem with that argument is biology actually is identifying multiple intermediate steps from the simplest single light-sensitive cell to something as complicated as the eye which clearly could have evolution acting upon them and result in a complicated structure. I worry about intelligent design, though I admire its advocates for wishing to put forward something in the way of a rebuttal to the idea that evolution says there's no god. And we'll come back to why I think that's an unfortunate argument. I think intelligent design sets up a god of the gaps kind of scenario. Well, you know, we haven't yet explained this particular feature of evolution, so god must be right there. If science ultimately proves that those gaps aren't gaps, after all, then where is god? We really ought not to ask people to do that.

Carlson: Does evolution even imply that there's no god?

Collins: Of course not. Evolution, although it's called a theory, in science a theory is a collection of observations that are pulled together into a consistent view of things. Electromagnetic theory, for instance. It doesn't mean it's still hypothetical and people don't think it's right. Biology makes almost no sense without evolution to undergird it. Saying as the opening statement did evolution is a theory, not a fact, that's not really quite an adequate explanation of the solidity of information we have that --

Carlson: Do we need a new term?

Collins: We need a new term. Evolution has reached the point it's not going to be discarded.

Carlson: Why isn't evolution the process god chose to create man?

Collins: I would agree with that. But that's not intelligent design.

 

[Foxfyre]

Collins rejects Einstein's theory of intellgient design, Sheldon, because Collins is a believer in God which Einstein was not. As I define intelligent design, from what I have read re Collins, and I have read quite a bit of Collins, he and I are pretty much on the same page.

Read the whole interview I linked for a more complete view of Collins' faith.

Einstein believed in Spinoza's god which wasn't a 'being' or 'personality' but rather a cosmic intelligence within the whole guiding the whole process.

Collins would naturally reject that as Collins had a relationship with the living God. Those of us who have experienced that relationship have a much different perspective than those who have not had that experience.

 

[Sheldon]

Collins rejects Einstein's theory of intellgient design, Sheldon, because Collins is a believer in God which Einstein was not. As I define intelligent design, from what I have read re Collins, and I have read quite a bit of Collins, he and I are pretty much on the same page.

Read the whole interview I linked for a more complete view of Collins' faith.

Einstein believed in Spinoza's god which wasn't a 'being' or 'personality' but rather a cosmic intelligence within the whole guiding the whole process.

Collins would naturally reject that as Collins had a relationship with the living God. Those of us who have experienced that relationship have a much different perspective than those who have not had that experience.

How you define ID is not relevant here. The man's words speak for themselves. It's a dead end to try and argue he absolutely believes in the concept of intelligent design.

 

[Cammmpbell]

No that statement doesn't prove that. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Scientific theory has a specific meaning in biology, and evolution IS such a theory. Do you understand the weight the word theory has in science? Telling a biologist that "evolution is JUST a theory" would be like telling a criminologist that it's just a theory Jeffrey Dahmer ate people. Doesn't matter what a creationist thinks scientific theory means; they reject the process of science to begin with.

It's just that I was brainwashed with that bullshit from the time I was two years old and now during my latter years find it amusing that 75% of our country's population belives that shit that the Jews wrote and don't even believe themselves:

The entire universe created in six days six thousand years ago

Mankind and dinosaurs on a boat till nearly four mile deep waters
receded/evaporated

Big fish puking up live men

Folks living through a 1200 degree furnace

Seas opening long enough for the white hats to pass then closing on the bad guys

Stone walls falling on command

Evil people instantly being turned into salt

The sun blacked out by a god

5,000 hungry pilgrims plus women and children
being fed with two fish and five loaves then twelve baskets of leftovers collected

Virgin Birth

Healing leprosy by touching

Walking on water

Water into wine

Raising from the dead

Hanging a man up and bleeding him to death only to see
him fit as a fiddle two days later

I don't know what church you propose had you for 60 years...but I find it amazing that you could be in any church for that long and not have absorbed anything. QUOTE]

I was bapti ed into a Baptist church before nearly 1000 members on a Sunday morning in 1957. I never half assed anything so I began to teach a young adult Sunday school class. I joined the Brotherhood, worked with the RA Boys, was on the building committee, the visitation committee, was in church at least three times a week. We tithed our gross and gave extra to drives like the Lottie Moon fund. By the time I was in my mid twenties I had most of the new testament committed to memory and could recite it chapter and verse. I gave personal testimony at several small churches in towns nearby.

When my number came up to be drafted the preacher set up an appointment with me and offered to get me ordained as a full time Baptist minister. I saw through the deal and chose to go to the army infantry. It's the money folks I stayed in the church for another thirty years and when I finally made up my mind to completely break all ties we left a church of god where we were members and when we moved the preacher coulodn't find us so he went to the county sheriff's department and they told him where we had relocated. When I told him I had doubts and was for the time being, out of It...he turned our names over to a local church. Then we had to get rid of them. When it comes to donations and tithes they understand eveything and there's nothing they won't do.

About five years ago a close friend of mine had left a 200 acre farm and his entire fortune...which was quite substantial, to a Methodist church. It was one of those deals where his ex wife had totally alienated his only daugtter from him and they had not been close for many years. During the last few weeks of his life as he was dying from lung cancer he had a reconciliation with his daughter. He wrote a revision to his previous will, dated and signed it. Guess what sport's fans...the Church hired a shyster lawyer who was well known by everyone in town and they showed up in court to attempt to block his daughter from anything the man owned. Thank goodness she was able to at least get half of his estate...which included mineral rights to the 200 acres where oil had already been identified. When it comes to money there's no difference in the greedy pigs on Wall St. and the church...not an iota.

 

[koshergrl]

If you mean Francis Collins, he subscribes entirely to evolution.

Note that when one of his colleagues was asked if he was a good scientist he said "Let's just say he's a good administrator."

And if you want to do the whole "scientists who believe in God thing." There is nothing wrong with it, but it would be a mistake to use their opinion to validate your religion.

I don't believe I contested evolution.
I contested Sky's statement that we know where we come from.

This is where you guys always fail. And I don't need scientists to validate my faith. I just have a problem with retards who make ridiculous claims and pretend their idiocy is scientifically based.

But we do know where we come from! We have an awfully nice selection of now extinct inhabitants of the genus homo, and we can ballpark when the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees lived.

I don't believe "we can ballpark" is a synonym for "know".

 

[koshergrl]

It's just that I was brainwashed with that bullshit from the time I was two years old and now during my latter years find it amusing that 75% of our country's population belives that shit that the Jews wrote and don't even believe themselves:

The entire universe created in six days six thousand years ago

Mankind and dinosaurs on a boat till nearly four mile deep waters
receded/evaporated

Big fish puking up live men

Folks living through a 1200 degree furnace

Seas opening long enough for the white hats to pass then closing on the bad guys

Stone walls falling on command

Evil people instantly being turned into salt

The sun blacked out by a god

5,000 hungry pilgrims plus women and children
being fed with two fish and five loaves then twelve baskets of leftovers collected

Virgin Birth

Healing leprosy by touching

Walking on water

Water into wine

Raising from the dead

Hanging a man up and bleeding him to death only to see
him fit as a fiddle two days later

I don't know what church you propose had you for 60 years...but I find it amazing that you could be in any church for that long and not have absorbed anything. QUOTE]

I was bapti ed into a Baptist church before nearly 1000 members on a Sunday morning in 1957. I never half assed anything so I began to teach a young adult Sunday school class. I joined the Brotherhood, worked with the RA Boys, was on the building committee, the visitation committee, was in church at least three times a week. We tithed our gross and gave extra to drives like the Lottie Moon fund. By the time I was in my mid twenties I had most of the new testament committed to memory and could recite it chapter and verse. I gave personal testimony at several small churches in towns nearby.

When my number came up to be drafted the preacher set up an appointment with me and offered to get me ordained as a full time Baptist minister. I saw through the deal and chose to go to the army infantry. It's the money folks I stayed in the church for another thirty years and when I finally made up my mind to completely break all ties we left a church of god where we were members and when we moved the preacher coulodn't find us so he went to the county sheriff's department and they told him where we had relocated. When I told him I had doubts and was for the time being, out of It...he turned our names over to a local church. Then we had to get rid of them. When it comes to donations and tithes they understand eveything and there's nothing they won't do.

About five years ago a close friend of mine had left a 200 acre farm and his entire fortune...which was quite substantial, to a Methodist church. It was one of those deals where his ex wife had totally alienated his only daugtter from him and they had not been close for many years. During the last few weeks of his life as he was dying from lung cancer he had a reconciliation with his daughter. He wrote a revision to his previous will, dated and signed it. Guess what sport's fans...the Church hired a shyster lawyer who was well known by everyone in town and they showed up in court to attempt to block his daughter from anything the man owned. Thank goodness she was able to at least get half of his estate...which included mineral rights to the 200 acres where oil had already been identified. When it comes to money there's no difference in the greedy pigs on Wall St. and the church...not an iota.

Bullshit.

 

[Woyzeck]

I don't believe I contested evolution.
I contested Sky's statement that we know where we come from.

This is where you guys always fail. And I don't need scientists to validate my faith. I just have a problem with retards who make ridiculous claims and pretend their idiocy is scientifically based.

But we do know where we come from! We have an awfully nice selection of now extinct inhabitants of the genus homo, and we can ballpark when the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees lived.

I don't believe "we can ballpark" is a synonym for "know".

It'd be nice to get a precise estimate of when it lived, but the way radiometric dating works doesn't give us the precise date. We know how that works too.

 

[Dragon]

"We can ballpark" is the closest any fact about the observable world can ever be known. It is impossible ever to have certain knowledge. Any claim by anyone, on any basis, to have certain knowledge about any fact about the observable world, is automatically wrong.

 

[koshergrl]

Because as everybody knows, once we learn a thing, it's absolute, etched in stone, and we have never found information later that blasted a theory all to shit.

Morons.

 

[Photonic]

Because as everybody knows, once we learn a thing, it's absolute, etched in stone, and we have never found information later that blasted a theory all to shit.

Morons.

Ironic.