Examples of why you can't tust Liberals with "reasonable" gun control

[Flash]

Machine guns have been controlled and we should do the same with semi-autos now.

How many examples you have of a defender needing more than 10 rounds? I can give you a lot of mass shooters who used them. Lots of people hit by strays from gang bangers too.

Did you know kids escaped at newtown while he reloaded?

That is your Moon Bat opinion about semi autos. You are entitled to your opinion but don't complain when I call you an idiot for having that opinion.

No magazine restriction in the world is going to stop a bad guy from getting a standard capacity magazine if he wants to commit a crime with it. All it will do is prevent law abiding citizens from enjoying their Constitutional rights.

Why take rights away from law abiding citizen when the bad guys will ignore the restrictions? Where is the justice and freedom in doing that?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Some nut shoots 6 people and the lefties want a law banning magazines with more than 5 bullets. Some nut shoots 7 people and they want a ban on magazines with more than 6 bullets. Shoot 10 and the left responds with a ban of 10 bullet magazines. Always chasing the irrelevant circumstances of gun violence instead of addressing the real causes.

Would you rather see a ban on gun sales altogether?

The far left wants that, the side you support and voted for twice..

The rampant possession of firearms in this country has taken, and continues to take a terrible toll in lives. Now, unless you can come up with a viable solution that addresses that toll, I will continue to hold that we need to get rid of them altogether. But hey, that's just me.

the guns don't take people's lives. Its the criminals that use them.

Gee, how original. Bet that took hours for ninja007 (a ridiculous nom de plume) to formulate.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I think that when, in 2012, for instance, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns, it is a huge problem. I think that when a 20 year old man walks into an elementary school and kills children with an assault weapon, and we see this kind of thing repeated over and over again all across the county, it is a huge problem. Ignore it or justify it all you want, but when you do, count yourself as part of the problem.

it isn't repeated all across the country...in fact, there hasn't been an increase in these shootings...and it would help a lot if we got rid of gun free killing zones for crazies....

Really?

Since 2006, there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States. If there has been no increase, then what you are saying is that it has been horrendous all along, we just didn't realize it. You can't have it both ways.

USA TODAY BEHIND THE BLOODSHED THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA S MASS KILLINGS

How many took place in locations where gun free zones prohibited someone from even having a gun there?

If you are suggesting that 'if only someone at the time had a gun to take the culprits out', I suggest to you that that is a fallacy, that the most likely outcome in that situation is that you have even more dead people to bury. This wild west, Wyatt Urp mentality needs to stop.

People stop violent criminal attacks with guns every day....most of the time the criminal runs, is captured or they are shot and injured....or killed......the most likely outcome is one more criminal off the street, or on his way to attack a victim who doesn't have a gun......

Well, another original apocryphal story by a wannabe vigilante. Every day there are numerous reports of murders by gun; and every time an innocent is murdered, or there is a mass murder, so some defender of the gun makes this same unsupported claim.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Some nut shoots 6 people and the lefties want a law banning magazines with more than 5 bullets. Some nut shoots 7 people and they want a ban on magazines with more than 6 bullets. Shoot 10 and the left responds with a ban of 10 bullet magazines. Always chasing the irrelevant circumstances of gun violence instead of addressing the real causes.

Tell us oh wise one, what are the real causes of gun violence in America?

People who have no regard for human life are the cause of gun violence (and every other kind). The same person that kills with a gun will kill with a knife, baseball bat, screwdriver, etc. Idiots like you, however, think it's the gun that does the killing.

So you have no idea that people like you are the real cause of gun violence in America. Paranoid racists who preach hate and fear like you, and others of every race, creed, ethnicity and social class.

Who does most of the killing in this country, dumbfuck? Gang members, drug dealers, in other words...CRIMINALS! Apparently you are not prepared to argue against that point. Prove me wrong, instead of spewing meaningless talking points like "paranoid racists preaching hate and fear". Give me a fucking break. Blacks kill blacks more than anyone kills anyone. Don't give me that "racist" bullshit. If that's all you have, then you suck at this.

Pointing out you are a racist and preach hate and fear is obvious to everyone but you, apparently. And, if you were capable of reading with comprehension, which you are not, you would note that I included other races, creeds, ethnicity and social class. So, feel good about not being alone and as culpable as other cowards whose sole source of feeling like a man means having a gun.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Such as?

And many Americans today are likewise prepared to be a soldier in defense of the nation. The difference is that today our soldiers don't have to bring their own guns to the fight.

Such as? Really? You really think that people owning semiautomatic rifles with a pistol grip & magazine is the single biggest problem facing our nation?

I think that when, in 2012, for instance, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns, it is a huge problem. I think that when a 20 year old man walks into an elementary school and kills children with an assault weapon, and we see this kind of thing repeated over and over again all across the county, it is a huge problem. Ignore it or justify it all you want, but when you do, count yourself as part of the problem.

it isn't repeated all across the country...in fact, there hasn't been an increase in these shootings...and it would help a lot if we got rid of gun free killing zones for crazies....

Really?

Since 2006, there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States. If there has been no increase, then what you are saying is that it has been horrendous all along, we just didn't realize it. You can't have it both ways.

USA TODAY BEHIND THE BLOODSHED THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA S MASS KILLINGS

The deaths from mass shootings at the hands of some lunatic, account for less than 1% of the gun murder deaths in the US. Yet they seem to be the main focus of the anti-gun crowd.

They don't seem so, they do provide a focus. The murder - slaughter - in too many cases of large numbers of innocent people is horrific to everyone but a terrorist. Which is why the NRA is a terrorist organization, and those who support their idiotic response to such mass murders are fellow travelers of terrorists.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Such as? Really? You really think that people owning semiautomatic rifles with a pistol grip & magazine is the single biggest problem facing our nation?

I think that when, in 2012, for instance, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns, it is a huge problem. I think that when a 20 year old man walks into an elementary school and kills children with an assault weapon, and we see this kind of thing repeated over and over again all across the county, it is a huge problem. Ignore it or justify it all you want, but when you do, count yourself as part of the problem.

it isn't repeated all across the country...in fact, there hasn't been an increase in these shootings...and it would help a lot if we got rid of gun free killing zones for crazies....

Really?

Since 2006, there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States. If there has been no increase, then what you are saying is that it has been horrendous all along, we just didn't realize it. You can't have it both ways.

USA TODAY BEHIND THE BLOODSHED THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA S MASS KILLINGS

The deaths from mass shootings at the hands of some lunatic, account for less than 1% of the gun murder deaths in the US. Yet they seem to be the main focus of the anti-gun crowd.

Of course they are. The gun control argument is not based on factual data because studies do not show correlation with gun control and decreased crime. What is left is an appeal to emotion. Mass shooting are very VERY emotional so they are used to push the agenda. You cant really blame them, something like sandyhook is horrific and no one wants that to be repeated ever again. The sad truth is that you cant stop all crazy though.

Only those who lack empathy are not emotionally impacted by mass murders of innocents and their response is, "Oh Well, we can't do anything about it and BTW its my absolute right!" This response because two + centuries ago, long dead men decided that every person in America had the right to own, possess and have in his or her custody and control a musket.

Of course they had no concept that a hand held, new generation of weapon, could kill with the efficiency capable by modern guns - I wonder how the debate on the Second would have gone if it were held today?

 

[2aguy]

Would you rather see a ban on gun sales altogether?

The far left wants that, the side you support and voted for twice..

The rampant possession of firearms in this country has taken, and continues to take a terrible toll in lives. Now, unless you can come up with a viable solution that addresses that toll, I will continue to hold that we need to get rid of them altogether. But hey, that's just me.

you mean the 1.6 million times a year, on average that guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives? Vs. 8-9,000 gun murders mainly committed by hang members in democrat controlled inner cities......


I hope you learned a little basic math in whatever government school that was controlled by the education wing of the democrat party that you attended......because 1.6 million is bigger than 8-9,000.....

Sooo....good people with guns are a positive not a negative....

Except the 1.6 million is made up. And Kleck admits that most defenders are involved in criminal behavior.

1.6 is NOT Kleck's number - his was 2.5 million. The department of justice said 1.5 million. Are they making things up as well?

The really low estimates still place defensive use at 500K. It is not only reasonable but supported by the data that defensive gun use is around a million uses a year.

And Kleck's isn't the only study to find the number that high....the 1.6 million number I use is the average of all the studies below...and there are some out there that I haven't been able to find yet.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409
Hart...1981...1.797,461
Mauser...1990...1,487,342
Gallup...1993...1,621,377
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000.....


Of all the studies, Kleck's is the most accurate because of the way he did his research.....

 

[2aguy]

Gun Facts Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries

Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 17

And Denmark has much lower crime rates and very few guns. Guns really don't effect crime rates.

And there is where the entire gun control debate falls apart for gun control. You have no basis to restrict the right.

Yes I'm not aware of any strong evidence showing crime is effected either up or down by gun ownership.

Except for the fact that more Americans own guns, more Americans are actually carrying guns....and the gun murder rate is going down, and is currently at an all time low....dittos for accidental gun deaths.........that is a fact......and the meme that law abiding citizens carrying guns for self defense will create more gun violence is false.....

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I think that when, in 2012, for instance, there were 8,855 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 6,371 of those attributed to handguns, it is a huge problem. I think that when a 20 year old man walks into an elementary school and kills children with an assault weapon, and we see this kind of thing repeated over and over again all across the county, it is a huge problem. Ignore it or justify it all you want, but when you do, count yourself as part of the problem.

it isn't repeated all across the country...in fact, there hasn't been an increase in these shootings...and it would help a lot if we got rid of gun free killing zones for crazies....

Really?

Since 2006, there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States. If there has been no increase, then what you are saying is that it has been horrendous all along, we just didn't realize it. You can't have it both ways.

USA TODAY BEHIND THE BLOODSHED THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA S MASS KILLINGS

The deaths from mass shootings at the hands of some lunatic, account for less than 1% of the gun murder deaths in the US. Yet they seem to be the main focus of the anti-gun crowd.

Of course they are. The gun control argument is not based on factual data because studies do not show correlation with gun control and decreased crime. What is left is an appeal to emotion. Mass shooting are very VERY emotional so they are used to push the agenda. You cant really blame them, something like sandyhook is horrific and no one wants that to be repeated ever again. The sad truth is that you cant stop all crazy though.

Only those who lack empathy are not emotionally impacted by mass murders of innocents and their response is, "Oh Well, we can't do anything about it and BTW its my absolute right!" This response because two + centuries ago, long dead men decided that every person in America had the right to own, possess and have in his or her custody and control a musket.

Of course they had no concept that a hand held, new generation of weapon, could kill with the efficiency capable by modern guns - I wonder how the debate on the Second would have gone if it were held today?

You have a habit of empathizing with the wrong side, Wry Catcher. That is your problem.

 

[2aguy]

Gun Facts Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries

Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 17

And Denmark has much lower crime rates and very few guns. Guns really don't effect crime rates.

And there is where the entire gun control debate falls apart for gun control. You have no basis to restrict the right.

Yes I'm not aware of any strong evidence showing crime is effected either up or down by gun ownership.

So you agree with the thrust of my argument then?

Gun control (beyond what we have) should not be passed? I thought you were on the other side of this debate...

There are thngs I would like done, but I mostly just try to keep the debate honest. The main thing I am for is mag capacity limits. I've not yet heard of anyone needing more than 10 rounds for defense, but gang bangers and mass shooters use them a lot. And there are examples of mass shooters stopped at reload.

And there are examples of mass shooters stopped at reload

And more of innocent people charging attackers....empty handed....because the law made them gun free zones....and getting gunned down....

Sandy Hook
Luby's cafe
Fort Hood,

And once I can' get to Ayoob's site I'll list more.....

stop gun free killing zones and magazine limits will be just as stupid an idea as all the other gun control ideas.....

 

[2aguy]

[


There are thngs I would like done, but I mostly just try to keep the debate honest. The main thing I am for is mag capacity limits. I've not yet heard of anyone needing more than 10 rounds for defense, but gang bangers and mass shooters use them a lot. And there are examples of mass shooters stopped at reload.

The Second Amendment is not qualified on an individual needs basis. The "need" is universal to protect the free state.

I am quite capable of determining the size of magazine I want for my firearms and the government needs to stay out of the business of telling me what to do.

If the police "needs" standard capacity magazines then so do I because we both are faced with the same threat from the same bad guys. I am my own first responder.

Just mind your own business and don't worry about the size of my magazines. I am a law abiding citizen and I am responsible and I don't need you taking away my rights with your ignorance.

How many times have you needed one?

Police apprehend criminals, very different from defendng.

Mass shooters and gang bangers pick their magazines and use the full capacity all the time. I've not heard of a defender needing to do that.

Every day I carry, I need the standard capacity magazine, and at least one more because I am not psychic....I cannot tell if I will need my gun at all, or how many bullets I will need if the worst case scenario happens...

Besides......we need standard capacity magazines for the day the government becomes like the government of Mexico, Kenya, Somalia.....Detroit......keeping our people armed with the standard weapons of our military is the safeguard against government mass murder...as is happening in mexico........

And before anyone says anything about that never happening....remember....we know what happens when the people of a country have no guns when the government decides to start killing them.......how about we try it with our citizens armed...and see how that turns out next time.....?

 

[2aguy]

Machine guns have been controlled and we should do the same with semi-autos now.

How many examples you have of a defender needing more than 10 rounds? I can give you a lot of mass shooters who used them. Lots of people hit by strays from gang bangers too.

Did you know kids escaped at newtown while he reloaded?

That is your Moon Bat opinion about semi autos. You are entitled to your opinion but don't complain when I call you an idiot for having that opinion.

No magazine restriction in the world is going to stop a bad guy from getting a standard capacity magazine if he wants to commit a crime with it. All it will do is prevent law abiding citizens from enjoying their Constitutional rights.

Why take rights away from law abiding citizen when the bad guys will ignore the restrictions? Where is the justice and freedom in doing that?

Yes......all magazines are banned in France...and Belgium...and Mexico......and yet in France, 3 terrorists, one a convicted criminal on a government terrorist watch list were able to get magazines for fully automatic rifles.....also completely illegal, as well as a rocket propelled grenade, and hand grenades....

So.....complete magazine ban.....criminals still got them......

Complete ban on magazines in Mexico.....mexican drug cartels have as many as they want......

Dittos every country around the world.....

 

[Brain357]

[


There are thngs I would like done, but I mostly just try to keep the debate honest. The main thing I am for is mag capacity limits. I've not yet heard of anyone needing more than 10 rounds for defense, but gang bangers and mass shooters use them a lot. And there are examples of mass shooters stopped at reload.

The Second Amendment is not qualified on an individual needs basis. The "need" is universal to protect the free state.

I am quite capable of determining the size of magazine I want for my firearms and the government needs to stay out of the business of telling me what to do.

If the police "needs" standard capacity magazines then so do I because we both are faced with the same threat from the same bad guys. I am my own first responder.

Just mind your own business and don't worry about the size of my magazines. I am a law abiding citizen and I am responsible and I don't need you taking away my rights with your ignorance.

How many times have you needed one?

Police apprehend criminals, very different from defendng.

Mass shooters and gang bangers pick their magazines and use the full capacity all the time. I've not heard of a defender needing to do that.

Every day I carry, I need the standard capacity magazine, and at least one more because I am not psychic....I cannot tell if I will need my gun at all, or how many bullets I will need if the worst case scenario happens...

Besides......we need standard capacity magazines for the day the government becomes like the government of Mexico, Kenya, Somalia.....Detroit......keeping our people armed with the standard weapons of our military is the safeguard against government mass murder...as is happening in mexico........

And before anyone says anything about that never happening....remember....we know what happens when the people of a country have no guns when the government decides to start killing them.......how about we try it with our citizens armed...and see how that turns out next time.....?

How many times have you needed a gun?

You insult our military by suggesting they would turn on the people.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

And before anyone says anything about that never happening....remember....we know what happens when the people of a country have no guns when the government decides to start killing them.......how about we try it with our citizens armed...and see how that turns out next time.....?

And who exactly has plans to start killing you? Oh right, no one. There are lots of people in the world with no guns and plenty of freedom. You brought a gun, to a drone fight anyway. Good luck with that.

 

[Brain357]

Machine guns have been controlled and we should do the same with semi-autos now.

How many examples you have of a defender needing more than 10 rounds? I can give you a lot of mass shooters who used them. Lots of people hit by strays from gang bangers too.

Did you know kids escaped at newtown while he reloaded?

That is your Moon Bat opinion about semi autos. You are entitled to your opinion but don't complain when I call you an idiot for having that opinion.

No magazine restriction in the world is going to stop a bad guy from getting a standard capacity magazine if he wants to commit a crime with it. All it will do is prevent law abiding citizens from enjoying their Constitutional rights.

Why take rights away from law abiding citizen when the bad guys will ignore the restrictions? Where is the justice and freedom in doing that?

Well the mass shooter from CA used 10 round mags because they have a law against larger ones. So they won't all go through the effort of finding larger ones.

I see you keep failing to answer my questions. Very telling.

 

[Brain357]

The far left wants that, the side you support and voted for twice..

The rampant possession of firearms in this country has taken, and continues to take a terrible toll in lives. Now, unless you can come up with a viable solution that addresses that toll, I will continue to hold that we need to get rid of them altogether. But hey, that's just me.

you mean the 1.6 million times a year, on average that guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives? Vs. 8-9,000 gun murders mainly committed by hang members in democrat controlled inner cities......


I hope you learned a little basic math in whatever government school that was controlled by the education wing of the democrat party that you attended......because 1.6 million is bigger than 8-9,000.....

Sooo....good people with guns are a positive not a negative....

Except the 1.6 million is made up. And Kleck admits that most defenders are involved in criminal behavior.

1.6 is NOT Kleck's number - his was 2.5 million. The department of justice said 1.5 million. Are they making things up as well?

The really low estimates still place defensive use at 500K. It is not only reasonable but supported by the data that defensive gun use is around a million uses a year.

And Kleck's isn't the only study to find the number that high....the 1.6 million number I use is the average of all the studies below...and there are some out there that I haven't been able to find yet.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717
DMIa 1978...2,141,512
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68
Kleck...2.5 million
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409
Hart...1981...1.797,461
Mauser...1990...1,487,342
Gallup...1993...1,621,377
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..



NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey)....108,000


Notice, the 3 different groupings of stats from the research listed so far.....not one of them approaches the NCVS number of 100,000.....


Of all the studies, Kleck's is the most accurate because of the way he did his research.....

And kleck has stated in most of his the defender is involved in criminal activity.

 

[Brain357]

Gun Facts Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries

Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 17

And Denmark has much lower crime rates and very few guns. Guns really don't effect crime rates.

And there is where the entire gun control debate falls apart for gun control. You have no basis to restrict the right.

Yes I'm not aware of any strong evidence showing crime is effected either up or down by gun ownership.

Except for the fact that more Americans own guns, more Americans are actually carrying guns....and the gun murder rate is going down, and is currently at an all time low....dittos for accidental gun deaths.........that is a fact......and the meme that law abiding citizens carrying guns for self defense will create more gun violence is false.....

But that doesn't prove they lowered the rate, just that it doesn't increase the rate perhaps. Which is also what I believe.

 

[Brain357]

The rampant possession of firearms in this country has taken, and continues to take a terrible toll in lives. Now, unless you can come up with a viable solution that addresses that toll, I will continue to hold that we need to get rid of them altogether. But hey, that's just me.

you mean the 1.6 million times a year, on average that guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives? Vs. 8-9,000 gun murders mainly committed by hang members in democrat controlled inner cities......


I hope you learned a little basic math in whatever government school that was controlled by the education wing of the democrat party that you attended......because 1.6 million is bigger than 8-9,000.....

Sooo....good people with guns are a positive not a negative....

Except the 1.6 million is made up. And Kleck admits that most defenders are involved in criminal behavior.

No he didn't....quit lying Brain....

Only one lying is you Bill
Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

I didn't lie, that quote is exactly what I said....a law abiding citizen in the 1990s whose constitutional right to carry a weapon for self defense was violated and by carrying a gun they broke a law.....your implication is that it is hardened career criminals...and that is obviously not what he is saying.....

Again Bill that example would only cover a small number of cases. He is clearly stating most cases. So we are talking felons and drug dealers defending their stash.

 

[Wry Catcher]

it isn't repeated all across the country...in fact, there hasn't been an increase in these shootings...and it would help a lot if we got rid of gun free killing zones for crazies....

Really?

Since 2006, there have been more than 200 mass killings in the United States. If there has been no increase, then what you are saying is that it has been horrendous all along, we just didn't realize it. You can't have it both ways.

USA TODAY BEHIND THE BLOODSHED THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA S MASS KILLINGS

The deaths from mass shootings at the hands of some lunatic, account for less than 1% of the gun murder deaths in the US. Yet they seem to be the main focus of the anti-gun crowd.

Of course they are. The gun control argument is not based on factual data because studies do not show correlation with gun control and decreased crime. What is left is an appeal to emotion. Mass shooting are very VERY emotional so they are used to push the agenda. You cant really blame them, something like sandyhook is horrific and no one wants that to be repeated ever again. The sad truth is that you cant stop all crazy though.

Only those who lack empathy are not emotionally impacted by mass murders of innocents and their response is, "Oh Well, we can't do anything about it and BTW its my absolute right!" This response because two + centuries ago, long dead men decided that every person in America had the right to own, possess and have in his or her custody and control a musket.

Of course they had no concept that a hand held, new generation of weapon, could kill with the efficiency capable by modern guns - I wonder how the debate on the Second would have gone if it were held today?

You have a habit of empathizing with the wrong side, Wry Catcher. That is your problem.

I have a problem? Thanks for Sharing; now do you have a thoughtful response to my observations about Callous Conservatives who lack the basic human emotion of empathy?

 

[Brain357]

How many times have you needed one?

Police apprehend criminals, very different from defendng.

Mass shooters and gang bangers pick their magazines and use the full capacity all the time. I've not heard of a defender needing to do that.

The Second Amendment is an individual right that is not needs based. I don't have to justify needs to anybody except myself. You have a hard time understanding that concept.

Mass shootings in this country hit a peak in the 1930s. Despite a few high profile mass shootings in the last few years they are at a very low rate compared to history.

By the way, the great majority of police never fire their weapon except for qualification during their career so if your criteria for need of a standard capacity magazine is actually having to shoot at a bad guy then most police would fail that test.

Police are not usually present when a crime takes place. They come later after the crime has been committed. It is more likely that a civilian will have the need for the firearm and the associated magazine than the police. If the police need standard capacity magazines then so do the citizens. They both have the threat of the same bad guys.

Why should I be restricted from owing standard capacity magazines because some gang bangers use them illegally? Taking the magazines away from me is not going to stop them from getting what they want.

Just mind you own business and don't worry about it. If you don't want a standard capacity magazine then don't buy one.

Machine guns have been controlled and we should do the same with semi-autos now.

How many examples you have of a defender needing more than 10 rounds? I can give you a lot of mass shooters who used them. Lots of people hit by strays from gang bangers too.

Did you know kids escaped at newtown while he reloaded?

Yeah....and 26 didn't.....the magazine thing is as silly as your other arguments Brain.......

Silly? Saving lives isn't silly. The Giffords shooter stopped at reload. If only he had to reload sooner.