Executive Order to forgive $50,000 in student debt

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yup which means we tax payers will be footing the bill. Bush the elder did away with Fed college loans cause they weren't being paid back. Clinton reinstituted them and here we are.

If you take the loan then YOU should be the one paying it back. Not the tax payers. More bullshit brought to you by a pack of imbeciles.

I thought it was DumBama that forced all school loans to be handled by the government.

 

[Claudette]

Yup which means we tax payers will be footing the bill. Bush the elder did away with Fed college loans cause they weren't being paid back. Clinton reinstituted them and here we are.

If you take the loan then YOU should be the one paying it back. Not the tax payers. More bullshit brought to you by a pack of imbeciles.

I thought it was DumBama that forced all school loans to be handled by the government.

I'm sure he did but Clinton is the one who reinstituted Fed loans after Bush the elder got rid of them.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

No, I don't lay the onus on teachers alone. But in any other context, would you pay more for less?

Just think about it logically, in any other context, any other at all, would you pay more money... for less product and service?

If you had two gas stations, and one was selling for $2/gallon, and the other was $3/gallon, would you go to the more expensive gas station? If you had two burger joints selling identical burgers, and one was $5, and the other $15, would you pay $15 for an identical burger to the $5 burger?

No.

There are a ton of aspect that are why public schools are garbage, that do not include just teachers... but teachers are actually very much part of the problem, because they support the unions that oppose any of the reforms that would improve the results.

I think the unions protect bad teachers too much, but to lay the blame on them for failed students is unfair. Let me expand on that a little:

Years ago I had a next door neighbor that bought a portable basketball hoop. Before I knew it, I had a yard full of neighborhood kids there. They played from the time they got home from school until past dark non-stop. A few times I had to call the cops to get them to stop. If I didn't, they would have played past 10:00 on a school night.

The kids ranged from ages 6 through 17 from what I witnessed. If they are out playing all hours of the night, HTF did they get their homework done? How did they get ample sleep to be attentive in school the next day? There was no possible way. The biggest question is why were their parent(s) not out looking for them to drag them home and make sure they were prepared for the next day in class?

So I stand by my point. The best teacher in the country can't teach a kid who's parents don't care about their education.

Yup...sorta like police unions protect bad cops...

But I never see these union hating conservatives demonize police unions like they love to demonize teachers unions...

Probably due to the disdain conservatives have for public education and/or education in general.....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So all that you said is true.... however, there is an indirect relationship between teachers, and bad students.

Again, it has to do with the teachers unions refusing to allow changes in the school system.

Why do kids themselves have no feeling that they need to succeed?

I would suggest to you, that a massive part of the reason is because they have been told all their lives, that they are entitled to an education, and that they can't be denied this right.

The people who promote that claim, for their own benefit, are the teachers unions, at the support of teachers, because it benefits teachers.

You don't see this in Japan. In Japan, to even get into high school... not college... just high school... you have to pass rigorous entrance exams. And if you don't pass the exam, then you simply don't go to high school.

And the students know this. They know if they don't pass the exams, then their friends go off to high school, and they don't.

So the students have a huge incentive to succeed.

And the same is true of college in Japan. There is no remedial classes in colleges in Japan. If you don't know the material, you simply don't go to college, and again you wave goodbye to your friends, while they go off, and you stay at home.

There is no "No child left behind" philosophy in other countries. No they completely leave your butt behind.

In Finland, if you don't make the grade, they kick you out. You go to a drop out school where you sit with all the other drop outs, and learn to do manual labor jobs.

The kids have a massive incentive to not be the loser that never sees his friends again, because he failed too many tests, and now goes to the loser school for people who can't make the grade.

Thus, few of them are staying out all night playing basket ball.

That's my point to you. When you say it's bad students.. I say it's bad students because you have a bad system, and the biggest protectors of the system right now, are the Unions..... and the teachers support the Unions.

By the way... if you take those kids, and put them in a private school, they start acting like students from Japan. They start caring about their grades, because they don't want to be the loser guy left behind. Because in a private school, you don't keep up, you are out.

In my opinion kids will always be kids. They need adults around to steer them in the proper direction. I (like many kids) hated school. My mother laughs until this day when she talks about us as children. The first day she woke me up early in the morning for kindergarten, I asked her how old I had to be before I could quit school.

My sister sent her two children to a private Catholic school. She got a letter from the school about my niece. It stated she was missing class and failing, and unless something is done immediately, she would be thrown out. My sister got on her ass like flies on honey. She grounded her, she was not allowed to leave the house for any recreational purposes. She was even limited to phone and television usage. My sister sat up with her every night to not only catch up on current studies, but to go back and learn what she missed while she was goofing off. She ended up graduating with an A+.

The difference between people like my sister and parents of public educated kids is that my sister was paying 12K a year for that education. She had to write out checks and made sure she was going to get every dimes worth. Public school parents? Their involvement in their kids education stops the second they throw them on the bus. It's not their problem, it's the schools problem. The taxpayers are paying for it so why should they care?

We both live in the same state, so we know how our schools are funded. That should change. I nor any of my tenants ever had kids in our school system, yet we are paying more to fund that public school than the woman down the street with four kids in the system. Perhaps if people like myself got lower taxes for not having kids in the school system, and parents had to write a check to educate their kids, they would get much more involved in their child's education as my sister did.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yup...sorta like police unions protect bad cops...

But I never see these union hating conservatives demonize police unions like they love to demonize teachers unions...

Probably due to the disdain conservatives have for public education and/or education in general.....

Correct, we don't like unions period, especially government unions. But our backing of police officers is not because of the unions, it's because we see people like you demonize police when they do things you don't approve of.

What is this whole kneeling thing all about? It's about a bunch of stupid jocks that are ignorant of our laws. There is no law that states a police officer can only use deadly force when confronted with deadly force. There is no law that I can only use deadly force under those same circumstances. By law, I can use deadly force to protect another person. I can use deadly force if I have reason to believe somebody will cause me serious bodily harm. So do police officers. I can use deadly force if somebody is trying to break into my car while I'm in it, even if they are not armed. All perfectly legal.

The unions protect their officers under such circumstance. All shootings and deaths are thoroughly investigated by several different law agencies. In cases of potential civil rights violations, they are also investigated by our federal government.

Maybe you heard of the situation that took place here a couple of years ago. It was the Tamir Rice story. Police went to a call about a person with a gun pointing it at people in a park. When the police got there, the person started pulling a realistic looking gun out of his pants, and one of the officers shot and killed him. It ended up that the person pulling the gun was a very adult looking 12 year old.

There was video of the entire event. The grand jury went through the video frame by frame. It was determined that the officer broke no laws. The Cleveland police fired him for some error he made on his original job application. Now the union is suing the city for the officer to get his job back. And why shouldn't he? He didn't break any laws or violate police procedure. He shot a 12 year old for pulling a realistic gun on him.

 

[noonereal]

I had to work there

If you refused to work there you were jailed?

I am not spoiled.

Dude, you have NO CLUE. Honest. None. None at all.

The most money I ever made as a teacher was about $55K.

Well, you lived 90 miles outside of Louisville. That put you in the top 10% of earners.

tenure

another insane "perk" unique to the spoiled child, I mean teacher.


Dude, like I said, I totally understand how you have no clue how soft you had it.
Peace

 

[noonereal]

I (like many kids) hated school

Who wouldn't? Surrounded by spoiled, self centered, rotten teachers all day.

 

[noonereal]

we don't like unions period, especially government unions.

For you not to make a distinction between public and private unions is extremely ignorant.

Public unions are a blight. No doubt about it. Teacher unions, cop unions, Postal government.... they should be outlawed.

However, private unions are as important as public unions are bad.

 

[noonereal]

I took a $25,000 pay cut to be a teacher.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why did you do this?

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For you not to make a distinction between public and private unions is extremely ignorant.

Public unions are a blight. No doubt about it. Teacher unions, cop unions, Postal government.... they should be outlawed.

However, private unions are as important as public unions are bad.

Yes, important if you want to see less work getting done. Important if your goal is to see your job leave the state or country.

If I had a pickup or delivery at a new company I knew nothing about, I could tell you in five minutes if they were union or not. In fact my employer quit taking jobs delivering to the auto plants. A non-union company could have my trailer loaded or unloaded in 30 to 45 minutes. At the UAW plants, up to four hours. My employer couldn't tie any of us up that long.

 

[noonereal]

For you not to make a distinction between public and private unions is extremely ignorant.

Public unions are a blight. No doubt about it. Teacher unions, cop unions, Postal government.... they should be outlawed.

However, private unions are as important as public unions are bad.

Yes, important if you want to see less work getting done. Important if your goal is to see your job leave the state or country.

If I had a pickup or delivery at a new company I knew nothing about, I could tell you in five minutes if they were union or not. In fact my employer quit taking jobs delivering to the auto plants. A non-union company could have my trailer loaded or unloaded in 30 to 45 minutes. At the UAW plants, up to four hours. My employer couldn't tie any of us up that long.

I acknowledge the down side of unions but without them capitalism is less bridled and that is never good for the masses.
I have seen many a fine American worker be seduced to a lazy obnoxious ass through the influence of unions, your point it valid.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ever lead a horse to water? Can you make them drink?

That's a fair point.

I believe, through my own experiences, that this is also a valid point:

When I was in high school, I went to an upper middle class school, rated one of the best in the central Ohio area.

One day I was invited to tour a private school in the area. At the time I was in 11th Grade. I was around 8th graders at the private school. What I found was that those 8th graders were using the exact same study material that I was using in 11th grade.

I had the same kind of experience my senior year when I transferred from Iowa to Michigan. I wasn't what you would call a from middle class family. I always had a extreme interest in programming, and my classes reflected that even though I couldn't afford one. But the school had some... A room full of them.

Iowa:
7th grade: Mandatory typing class... AWESOME. I wanted it anyway.

8th grade: Spreadsheets... Absolutely. I have no idea how that would help me in life... But I wanted it. WTF are they and how do they work? I want to know.

10th grade: CAD... Sign me up. Unfortunately it was a bullshit class. They didn't teach anything any kid couldn't figure out in a week of playing, so I just played with the program and taught myself. Bored as hell for the next 8 weeks. Easy A. Disappointing.

11th grade: Programming . FINALLY my junior year they made this class. I was learning BASIC. Print statements, values, loops, If statements... That was awesome. Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie. Not enough people were interested in the Advanced BASIC class, so I talked them into letting me use the room during one of my study halls. Give me the book and access to the computer room I'll teach myself. Please and thank you.

Shit happened my senior year... Moved to Michigan.

Computer programming class I, II, & III???? WHOOOOOO Sign me up!

Guidance councilor: How advanced would you say you are in computer programming? Looking back I'm pretty sure when I said BASIC and those other classes she didn't know BASIC was a damn programming language. Because we argued about putting me in II rather than III... I promise, I'll catch up and figure it out. III it is!

I get in there... And you know what this highest computer programming class is doing? They are teaching them how to make recipe cards in a recipe card already made fuck'n program! This isn't PROGRAMMING it's fucking DATA ENTRY. They have exactly zero programming courses. This fuck'n school has so much more shit than my tiny ass one in Iowa, and I'm watching the COMPUTER PROGRAMMING teacher chicken peck with two fingers showing the class how to fuck'n enter data in their most advanced programming class.

If it wasn't for the amazingly friendly young women I wouldn't have lasted more than a week and went back to Iowa. I can be a lot of things... But I can't be BORED. Trying to teach me as a senior things I learned as a freshmen in many of my classes. I made it a quarter before I had move back or drop out of school... I couldn't take it.

And now... Now my old school is just like that one in Michigan. Fuck you Bush, Fuck you Obama.

What do Obama and Bush have to do with your local school board?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I had to work there

If you refused to work there you were jailed?

I am not spoiled.

Dude, you have NO CLUE. Honest. None. None at all.

The most money I ever made as a teacher was about $55K.

Well, you lived 90 miles outside of Louisville. That put you in the top 10% of earners.

tenure

another insane "perk" unique to the spoiled child, I mean teacher.


Dude, like I said, I totally understand how you have no clue how soft you had it.
Peace

Still spewing your lies?

 

[noonereal]

I had to work there

If you refused to work there you were jailed?

I am not spoiled.

Dude, you have NO CLUE. Honest. None. None at all.

The most money I ever made as a teacher was about $55K.

Well, you lived 90 miles outside of Louisville. That put you in the top 10% of earners.

tenure

another insane "perk" unique to the spoiled child, I mean teacher.


Dude, like I said, I totally understand how you have no clue how soft you had it.
Peace

Still spewing your lies?

You are soft dude. Soft and spoiled.

Teachers are GROSSLY overpaid.

We won't get education fixed until we get rid of the unions and let the free market dictate the teacher pay.
I'll never understand why a teacher gets paid more than a McDonald's workers.
At least the McDonald's guy serves me hot fries.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I had to work there

If you refused to work there you were jailed?

I am not spoiled.

Dude, you have NO CLUE. Honest. None. None at all.

The most money I ever made as a teacher was about $55K.

Well, you lived 90 miles outside of Louisville. That put you in the top 10% of earners.

tenure

another insane "perk" unique to the spoiled child, I mean teacher.


Dude, like I said, I totally understand how you have no clue how soft you had it.
Peace

Still spewing your lies?

You are soft dude. Soft and spoiled.

Teachers are GROSSLY overpaid.

We won't get education fixed until we get rid of the unions and let the free market dictate the teacher pay.
I'll never understand why a teacher gets paid more than a McDonald's workers.
At least the McDonald's guy serves me hot fries.

Grossly overpaid? How much did i earn with 20 years experience 3 years ago in Hart County, KY?

Clueless, man! You are fucking clueless.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Grossly overpaid

Good, we finally agree.

Peace

Now. you just had to go prove you cannot read either and misquoted my post. That is a TOS violation. Consider yourself reported and placed on "ignore" for stupidity above and beyond the fall of duty.

 

[Desperado]

dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......

While that is a very good point. . perhaps the solution would be, rather enacting "student loan cancellation," if we could rewind history to the point where the special interests conned both Dems and Repubs to pass legislation to the point where folks could not declare bankruptcy and have those obligations written off and have it reflected on their financial history.

Now. . . I don't know a lot about these issues given my disability and life history, I have never owned property, so feel free to correct me. . . but, if you were in a major car wreck, became a quadriplegic, and could no longer make your note, you could, theoretically, declare bankruptcy and have that mortgage be written off, yes? Didn't Trump himself declare bankruptcy on several properties? Just asking here. . . I don't know everything.


. . . the same would not be true for a med student with several hundred thousand dollars in debt. They would be disabled with that debt for the rest of their disabled lives. The STATE, in it's infinite wisdom given by the banking interests, decided that student loans were not eligible for bankruptcy court because. . . . . . folks that take out those loans are immune to disastrous life events or something? I dunno.



Now, if I have made some errors in logic, please feel free to point them out.

Biden is the one that pushed for the 2005 bill that made Student Loans bankruptcy proof for the benefit of Bank of America.

Joe Biden Backed Bills That Keep Students In Loan Debt - The Ring of Fire Network

Via America’s Lawyer: Biden was one of the key proponents of the 2005 legislation that’s now bearing down on student loan debt, which prevents the $150 billion worth of private student loan debt from being discharged, rescheduled, or renegotiated. Steve Malzberg joins Farron Cousins to discuss...

trofire.com

 

[jbrownson0831]

Democrats Plan $50,000 Of Student Loan Cancellation By Executive Order

Will your student loans get cancelled? It depends who you ask.

www.forbes.com

Congratulations US Taxpayer, looks like you will get to pick up the $50,000 tab of irresponsible college students and families who took on more debt than they could handle because they felt entitled to go to private elite colleges 3 time zones away and concentrate their studies in useless majors that have no demand in the job market. These students and families who feel entitled to this have the audacity to say they have been “enslaved” or victimized by student debt.

Moving forward, there needs to be more controls in place to qualify students and their families towards state and local institutions and concentrations of study that yield good paying jobs.

Check your race cards and class warfare bullshit at the door.

Pinochijoe is an idiot.

 

[SC Patriot]

If banks and businesses didn't have to pay the money back, I don't see why all should not be held to the same standard.

Because there are those of us that paid our debt off.

I did not agree with saving those that are too big to fail.

I also don't agree with the fact that my neighbor (6 houses down the block) took out student loans for his 3 kids and went on vacation every 3 months and bought a boat, whereas I took out a HELOC to pay tuition for my boys and opposed to going on vacation for 3 years, I paid that HELOC off.

And now he will go on vacation again (April Cruise to Alaska) and get a free ride for his debt.

It isnt right.

 

[MisterBeale]

dam.....i wonder if they will get to excusing 50,000 dollars of my mortgage?......

While that is a very good point. . perhaps the solution would be, rather enacting "student loan cancellation," if we could rewind history to the point where the special interests conned both Dems and Repubs to pass legislation to the point where folks could not declare bankruptcy and have those obligations written off and have it reflected on their financial history.

Now. . . I don't know a lot about these issues given my disability and life history, I have never owned property, so feel free to correct me. . . but, if you were in a major car wreck, became a quadriplegic, and could no longer make your note, you could, theoretically, declare bankruptcy and have that mortgage be written off, yes? Didn't Trump himself declare bankruptcy on several properties? Just asking here. . . I don't know everything.


. . . the same would not be true for a med student with several hundred thousand dollars in debt. They would be disabled with that debt for the rest of their disabled lives. The STATE, in it's infinite wisdom given by the banking interests, decided that student loans were not eligible for bankruptcy court because. . . . . . folks that take out those loans are immune to disastrous life events or something? I dunno.



Now, if I have made some errors in logic, please feel free to point them out.

Biden is the one that pushed for the 2005 bill that made Student Loans bankruptcy proof for the benefit of Bank of America.

Joe Biden Backed Bills That Keep Students In Loan Debt - The Ring of Fire Network

Via America’s Lawyer: Biden was one of the key proponents of the 2005 legislation that’s now bearing down on student loan debt, which prevents the $150 billion worth of private student loan debt from being discharged, rescheduled, or renegotiated. Steve Malzberg joins Farron Cousins to discuss...

trofire.com

Yeah, I have noticed he is the one that caused many of the problems he now wants to fix.

He made the crime bill, and now wants to try to fix the problems of the black community.

His office gave us the Omnibus Anti-terror bill which was the template for the Patriot Act which created ICE, and now? He and his cohorts want to scale that back or get rid of it?

Like, wtf? Create a problem, then run on a platform to solve the problem YOU created a decade or more ago?