Explain it to me like I'm stupid ...

[Sixties Fan]

I get that, but I asked because I was researching how all the fighting began and it just goes into a rabbit hole.

The answer is in one of the threads you closed today

The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts. The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which...

www.usmessageboard.com

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts. The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which...

www.usmessageboard.com

The whole history is there with all the articles and evidence we have posted about it.

There is no rabbit hole.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Why is there so much hate between Israel and Palestine? Is it all because both want Jerusalem to belong to them?

Please, re open this thread and put it back on the top where it was.

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts. The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which...

www.usmessageboard.com

We have been posting and discussing the topic and adding to it when we find old information which has to do with it.

The whole issue of Israel and the Palestinians starts with the end of WWI, the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate for Palestine.

Please, allow us to continue with it. After all this whole community is about: Israel and Palestine.

Thank you.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

For those that can give an honest answer: as long as they need to explain it.

For those that give a one-sided answer: none.

How are you in a position of determining who is or is not being honest if you know nothing about the history of the conflict?

Even phrasing the conflict as being between "Israel and Palestine" is misleading because the conflict goes back to a time before there was a country called Israel and before the intentional creation of a people called "Palestinian".

 

[José]

AyeCantSeeYou
For those that can give an honest answer: as long as they need to explain it.

For those that give a one-sided answer: none.

If you reject "one-sided answers" you clearly believe both sides have legitimate reasons to be in Palestine, to fight for the land, to set up states there, etc...

But how can you have this knowledge if you claim to know very little about the conflict?

 

[José]

Dogma asked the same question

 

[José]

If you know the early history of your own country you already know the basics of the israeli palestinian conflict, Aye.

It's the typical ethnocratic conflict between natives and settlers with a remarkable difference:

In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the colonizers (european Jews) claim to be the natives of the land and argue that the natives (the arab population) are the real colonists.

 

[Sixties Fan]

If you know the early history of your own country you already know the basics of the israeli palestinian conflict, Aye.

It's the typical ethnocratic conflict between natives and settlers with a remarkable difference:

In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the colonizers (european Jews) claim to be the natives of the land and argue that the natives (the arab population) are the real colonists.

How can Arabs, who are indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, actually be also indigenous of the land of Israel ?

"European" Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel. They went to Europe, as so many other people have, and NONE of those other people are called indigenous of Europe simply because they spent any time, decades, centuries.....in Europe.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

If you know the early history of your own country you already know the basics of the israeli palestinian conflict, Aye.

It's the typical ethnocratic conflict between natives and settlers with a remarkable difference:

In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the colonizers (european Jews) claim to be the natives of the land and argue that the natives (the arab population) are the real colonists.

No.

There is an uninterrupted Jewish presence in the land dating back over three thousand years.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Sixties Fan
How can Arabs, who are indigenous of the Arabian Peninsula, actually be also indigenous of the land of Israel ?

"European" Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel. They went to Europe, as so many other people have, and NONE of those other people are called indigenous of Europe simply because they spent any time, decades, centuries.....in Europe.

So you agree with me when I say there is a real difference between Israel and other settlement projects:

The puritans of the Mayflower never said:

"We are the native people of Massachusetts."

James Cook never said:

"We are the natives of Australia."

Hernan Cortez never said:

"We are the natives of Mexico."

But the europeans who founded the zionist movement said:

"We are the natives of Palestine returning to settle in our homeland after a long exile."

 

[José]

Originally posted by Dogmaphobe
No.

There is an uninterrupted Jewish presence in the land dating back over three thousand years.

The orthodox jewish population of Palestine who preceded the zionist movement considered the creation of any jewish state in the Holy Land before the arrival of the Messiah as a sacrilege, as a blasphemy.

They fought tooth and nail to stop the newly arrived european settlers from creating what they considered to be a religious heresy.

 

[Ropey]

No.

There is an uninterrupted Jewish presence in the land dating back over three thousand years.

+2

We Never Left: The Jews' Continuous Presence in the Land of Israel

www.jpost.com

But is it true that the Jews never left Israel? Yes, it is:

Talmudic Age: The Romans did not exile the Jews. Post-revolt synagogues dotted the land. The misnah and Palestinian Talmud were written. The Romans recognized the Patriarch as the community’s head until the fifth century.

The Muslim Dynasties: The Jews were still there.

Crusader rule: The Jews fought at Jerusalem, and held the Crusaders off — alone at Haifa — for a month.

The Mamluks: the Jews were still there — in their four holy cities and elsewhere.

The 400 years of Ottoman Turk rule: The Jews were still there, becoming Jerusalem’s majority during this time.

 

[Ropey]

The orthodox jewish population of Palestine who preceded the zionist movement considered the creation of any jewish state in the Holy Land before the arrival of the Messiah as a sacrilege, as a blasphemy.

Some did. Some of the Jews in Yemen and Iran and other parts of the world still think it's a blasphemy. Yet there it is.

They fought tooth and nail to stop the newly arrived european settlers from creating what they considered to be a religious heresy.

Of course, and there is differences to this day, and at the same time, the Arabs were bringing in their guys from all around the arena. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, etc. to push the Jews into the sea.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The orthodox jewish population of Palestine who preceded the zionist movement considered the creation of any jewish state in the Holy Land before the arrival of the Messiah as a sacrilege, as a blasphemy.

They fought tooth and nail to stop the newly arrived european settlers from creating what they considered to be a religious heresy.

Antisemites just LOVE to parade about the Neturei Karta, now, don't they?

 

[Ropey]

Antisemites just LOVE to parade about the Neturei Karta, now, don't they?

This group was created in socialist & communist Israel and then they transplanted their movement when Israel became capitalistic.

Now where have the Jews seen this before?

Yeah, Assyria, Babylon, Greece.... etc.

That's how we got the Pentateuch. And that's a Greek/Babylonian translation of Torah.

 

[miketx]

Why is there so much hate between Israel and Palestine? Is it all because both want Jerusalem to belong to them?

Will you marry me?

 

[Sixties Fan]

So you agree with me when I say there is a real difference between Israel and other settlement projects:

The puritans of the Mayflower never said:

"We are the native people of Massachusetts."

James Cook never said:

"We are the natives of Australia."

Hernan Cortez never said:

"We are the natives of Mexico."

But the europeans who founded the zionist movement said:

"We are the natives of Palestine returning to settle in our homeland after a long exile."

Rewrite history all you like.

Arabs are NOT indigenous of Palestine or any other land the Muslims have conquered since they finally left the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century.


Rewrite history all you like, but even early Muslims knew that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews, to the children of Israel.


Are the Palestinians the Children of Israel? No.

Are Jews returning to their homeland, no matter when they left it, the Children of Israel ? Yes.

 

[Sixties Fan]

This group was created in socialist & communist Israel and then they transplanted their movement when Israel became capitalistic.

Now where have the Jews seen this before?

Yeah, Assyria, Babylon, Greece.... etc.

That's how we got the Pentateuch. And that's a Greek/Babylonian translation of Torah.

Antisemitism at its best.

Which is exactly why those two threads need to be returned to where they were before they were closed.

These other threads become nothing but a free for all against Jews and Israel .

 

[Ropey]

Antisemitism at its best.

Which is exactly why those two threads need to be returned to where they were before they were closed.

These other threads become nothing but a free for all against Jews and Israel .

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Those other threads stopped discussion and turned the place into a spam pit.

This was the way it was before it was remolded. The mods dealt with spam and the rules and not moving posts and deleting posts because it was a repeat of something else said.

Not good at all. It's not about gaining an upper-hand on either side in discussion. It's about making discussion smoother.

 

[Ropey]

even early Muslims knew that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews, to the children of Israel.

+2

And in modern times, Syria claimed Palestine and said the Arabs living there were south Syrians.

Syria Palaestina - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestine was the name of the partition pre-Ottoman empire. It's not an Arab name.

 

[buttercup]

Actually, if you want to go back to the very beginning of the problem... it goes all the way back to a sibling rivalry between Ishmael and Isaac, thousands of years ago. Isaac was Abraham's "son of promise" and Ishmael was Abraham's son via Hagar their maidservant who was conceived due to their distrust of God's promise.

So it boils down to a very long running dispute on who the rightful heir is (and by extension, his descendants) to the promised land. But in the bible it's clear, Isaac was the child of promise, read Genesis 26. That said, God did bless Ishmael as well. (Genesis 17:20)

i'll put on my flame suit for those who think the bible is a myth.