Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[JRK]

625.00 a month?

Yes, do I need to show you the math?

thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12

Yeah. How does that get 20 million off all government programs?

Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number

$100 is even better. So how many make less than $14? You have a real number?
How many make minimum? Do you have any real data?

Todd your getting into this 1000 threads late
google 2007 budget
We brought in 350 billion if I recall in corporate rate
Google poverty rates and it will tell you how you qualify for govt help

I have done thos exersizes all I am going to do them. It is a serious look at our problem and here you come along way late and ask the same question Bern asked 500 times

That is real data dude, go back from the start of the thread and catch up. I AM NOT GOING TO GO BACK THRU ANOTHER BERN80
NO-ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING STUPID
dollar for dollar tax cut from the corporate rate (W-2 used to verify compliance)
3 years to bring it in
all legacy cost go towards the base pay (like if your getting health and a retirement)
why?
because local and state govt's could not do this because of there legacy cost

What else?
Oh yea, corporations pay 0 in taxes, the consumer pays all of them

Unfortunately, I got into this thread way too early.

Keep saying that government mandates are conservative.

Doesn't make it so.

Todd I have never said that
1) A minimum wage is here, I am not advocating the creation of one
2) And exactly why is that an issue? do you think we need to allow a business to reap the rewards us the tax payer provides such as NATIONAL DEFENSE and in return pay us 1.00 an hour? We are all in this together

Todd corproations pay 0 in taxes. Business and the govt need to work hand in hand to promote welath as well as job growth.
Why is it a Liberal idea to cut the taxes? We pay enough taxes that cutting them dollar for dollar could set the minimum wage to a level that removes that employee from govt programs. Liberal?
Business get subsidies for many reasons, which in theroy should be helping the consumer. Do you or Bern have an issue with that?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd your getting into this 1000 threads late
google 2007 budget
We brought in 350 billion if I recall in corporate rate
Google poverty rates and it will tell you how you qualify for govt help

I have done thos exersizes all I am going to do them. It is a serious look at our problem and here you come along way late and ask the same question Bern asked 500 times

That is real data dude, go back from the start of the thread and catch up. I AM NOT GOING TO GO BACK THRU ANOTHER BERN80
NO-ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING STUPID
dollar for dollar tax cut from the corporate rate (W-2 used to verify compliance)
3 years to bring it in
all legacy cost go towards the base pay (like if your getting health and a retirement)
why?
because local and state govt's could not do this because of there legacy cost

What else?
Oh yea, corporations pay 0 in taxes, the consumer pays all of them

Unfortunately, I got into this thread way too early.

Keep saying that government mandates are conservative.

Doesn't make it so.

Todd I have never said that
1) A minimum wage is here, I am not advocating the creation of one
2) And exactly why is that an issue? do you think we need to allow a business to reap the rewards us the tax payer provides such as NATIONAL DEFENSE and in return pay us 1.00 an hour? We are all in this together

Todd corproations pay 0 in taxes. Business and the govt need to work hand in hand to promote welath as well as job growth.
Why is it a Liberal idea to cut the taxes? We pay enough taxes that cutting them dollar for dollar could set the minimum wage to a level that removes that employee from govt programs. Liberal?
Business get subsidies for many reasons, which in theroy should be helping the consumer. Do you or Bern have an issue with that?

1)You're not advocating the creation, just the increase of one. Still not conservative.
2)I'm so tired of this argument. Taxpayers are employed by businesses.

Why do you keep talking about cutting taxes, a conservative idea, and saying we think it's liberal? It's dishonest. You should stop.

If you cut Google's corporate tax, will that help a single minimum wage worker?

Yes, I have issues with subsidies.

 

[Bern80]

I understand you thread to say you have an issue with all minimum wage?

Yes

Well I hate to tell you this but its not going away and we have to deal with it
If you are to succed as a person who are paid to resolve issues, you cannot pretend the biggest one does not exist

It's irrelevent at this point. Your counter argument to me was that I was okay with government mandating how much a business must pay on some level thus I shouldn't have a problem with them mandating a living wage. Well since I do in fact have a problem with ANY min wage that throws that particular argument of yours out the window. Your notion that consumers pay all taxes doesn't fly either. Your 'logic' is that since a business' money comes from you are paying their taxes. Doesn't the money you give to a business come from your employer? It's just as fair to say that it's your employer paying YOUR taxes, not you. Or, since your money comes from your employer which then goes to other companies it's really companies paying other company's taxes.

You show yourself to be a coward more and more with every post. You've been called out several times on your dishonesty and you refuse to even acknowledge or counter argue any of it. That speaks volumes to the validity of your position.

 

[JRK]

Unfortunately, I got into this thread way too early.

Keep saying that government mandates are conservative.

Doesn't make it so.

Todd I have never said that
1) A minimum wage is here, I am not advocating the creation of one
2) And exactly why is that an issue? do you think we need to allow a business to reap the rewards us the tax payer provides such as NATIONAL DEFENSE and in return pay us 1.00 an hour? We are all in this together

Todd corproations pay 0 in taxes. Business and the govt need to work hand in hand to promote welath as well as job growth.
Why is it a Liberal idea to cut the taxes? We pay enough taxes that cutting them dollar for dollar could set the minimum wage to a level that removes that employee from govt programs. Liberal?
Business get subsidies for many reasons, which in theroy should be helping the consumer. Do you or Bern have an issue with that?

1)You're not advocating the creation, just the increase of one. Still not conservative.
2)I'm so tired of this argument. Taxpayers are employed by businesses.

Why do you keep talking about cutting taxes, a conservative idea, are saying we think it's liberal? It's dishonest. You should stop.

If you cut Google's corporate tax, will that help a single minimum wage worker?

Yes, I have issues with subsidies.

Did you miss the place in which I stated a 1 dollar cut for a 1 dollar raise? If you do not take part, you get no benifit
I am talking about a tax cut and you are callling this idea a liberal idea, why would I stop? when you do
What I am stating is a tax cut, cutting benifits people collect from the federal govt. and injecting billions into the real GDP
You are claiming I am talking about rasing the minimum wage. It is a cause and effect event that has all of these events within

Corporation exist because of the consumer, it is a relationship, not a dictatorship. One cannot exist without the other
I trade stocks daily. Do you realize corporations are reporting record profits? which is a good thing.
I am not saying but one thing. you raise the pay of 1 person 1.00 an hour for the year, you will get a tax cut for the same

 

[Bern80]

Todd I have never said that
1) A minimum wage is here, I am not advocating the creation of one
2) And exactly why is that an issue? do you think we need to allow a business to reap the rewards us the tax payer provides such as NATIONAL DEFENSE and in return pay us 1.00 an hour? We are all in this together

Todd corproations pay 0 in taxes. Business and the govt need to work hand in hand to promote welath as well as job growth.
Why is it a Liberal idea to cut the taxes? We pay enough taxes that cutting them dollar for dollar could set the minimum wage to a level that removes that employee from govt programs. Liberal?
Business get subsidies for many reasons, which in theroy should be helping the consumer. Do you or Bern have an issue with that?

1)You're not advocating the creation, just the increase of one. Still not conservative.
2)I'm so tired of this argument. Taxpayers are employed by businesses.

Why do you keep talking about cutting taxes, a conservative idea, are saying we think it's liberal? It's dishonest. You should stop.

If you cut Google's corporate tax, will that help a single minimum wage worker?

Yes, I have issues with subsidies.

Did you miss the place in which I stated a 1 dollar cut for a 1 dollar raise? If you do not take part, you get no benifit
I am talking about a tax cut and you are callling this idea a liberal idea, why would I stop? when you do
What I am stating is a tax cut, cutting benifits people collect from the federal govt. and injecting billions into the real GDP
You are claiming I am talking about rasing the minimum wage. It is a cause and effect event that has all of these events within

Corporation exist because of the consumer, it is a relationship, not a dictatorship. One cannot exist without the other
I trade stocks daily. Do you realize corporations are reporting record profits? which is a good thing.
I am not saying but one thing. you raise the pay of 1 person 1.00 an hour for the year, you will get a tax cut for the same

NO ONE FUCKING MISSED IT. You're like a damn broken record JRK. The fact that you are proposing a tax cut along with your mandate doesn't make your mandate any less liberal. You continue to lie about this and can't for the life of me see why. NO ONE IS CALLING YOUR TAX CUT LIBERAL. THEY ARE CALLING YOUR LIVING WAGE MANDATE LIBERAL. STOP PRETENDING IT'S THE FORMER AND NOT THE LATER.

Does it need to be put in front of you for you to see how dishones you are? Heres' basically how the conversation has been going.

Todd: A mandated living wage is a liberal solution.

Your response: How can you say a tax cut is a liberal solution?

Do you see how the subjects in those two sentences are different? Do you see how you're not responding to the contention that a living wage mandate is liberal with that response?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd I have never said that
1) A minimum wage is here, I am not advocating the creation of one
2) And exactly why is that an issue? do you think we need to allow a business to reap the rewards us the tax payer provides such as NATIONAL DEFENSE and in return pay us 1.00 an hour? We are all in this together

Todd corproations pay 0 in taxes. Business and the govt need to work hand in hand to promote welath as well as job growth.
Why is it a Liberal idea to cut the taxes? We pay enough taxes that cutting them dollar for dollar could set the minimum wage to a level that removes that employee from govt programs. Liberal?
Business get subsidies for many reasons, which in theroy should be helping the consumer. Do you or Bern have an issue with that?

1)You're not advocating the creation, just the increase of one. Still not conservative.
2)I'm so tired of this argument. Taxpayers are employed by businesses.

Why do you keep talking about cutting taxes, a conservative idea, are saying we think it's liberal? It's dishonest. You should stop.

If you cut Google's corporate tax, will that help a single minimum wage worker?

Yes, I have issues with subsidies.

Did you miss the place in which I stated a 1 dollar cut for a 1 dollar raise? If you do not take part, you get no benifit
I am talking about a tax cut and you are callling this idea a liberal idea, why would I stop? when you do
What I am stating is a tax cut, cutting benifits people collect from the federal govt. and injecting billions into the real GDP
You are claiming I am talking about rasing the minimum wage. It is a cause and effect event that has all of these events within

Corporation exist because of the consumer, it is a relationship, not a dictatorship. One cannot exist without the other
I trade stocks daily. Do you realize corporations are reporting record profits? which is a good thing.
I am not saying but one thing. you raise the pay of 1 person 1.00 an hour for the year, you will get a tax cut for the same

Your tax cut does not let the corporation keep any more money. Sounds like something Obama would come up with.

 

[JRK]

I understand you thread to say you have an issue with all minimum wage?

Yes

Well I hate to tell you this but its not going away and we have to deal with it
If you are to succed as a person who are paid to resolve issues, you cannot pretend the biggest one does not exist

It's irrelevent at this point. Your counter argument to me was that I was okay with government mandating how much a business must pay on some level thus I shouldn't have a problem with them mandating a living wage. Well since I do in fact have a problem with ANY min wage that throws that particular argument of yours out the window. Your notion that consumers pay all taxes doesn't fly either. Your 'logic' is that since a business' money comes from you are paying their taxes. Doesn't the money you give to a business come from your employer? It's just as fair to say that it's your employer paying YOUR taxes, not you. Or, since your money comes from your employer which then goes to other companies it's really companies paying other company's taxes.

You show yourself to be a coward more and more with every post. You've been called out several times on your dishonesty and you refuse to even acknowledge or counter argue any of it. That speaks volumes to the validity of your position.

Bern if the consumer doe not supply the capital to pay all taxes a corporation will face, the where does that capital come from?

The employee provides a service, it suppose to be a relationship of welath. One cannot exist without the other
COAWARD? YOU ARE A PLANT
i have suspected this for a long time. when you stated the things you said about Romeny I statrted to call you out then
LIAR
ok big boy, NAME 1 LIE I HAVE STATED? PUT UP OR SHUT UP AND APOLOGIZE
YOU WANT TO PLAY HARD BALL, THERE IT IS
YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED OUT. YOU MADE IT PERSONAL WHEN THERE IS NO PLACE TO HAVE DONE THIS EXCEPT YOU KNOW YOUR "FACTS" ARE WRONG
1) HOW DOES THE CORPORATION PAY TAXES WITH OUT THE CONSUMERS WEALTH?
2) YOU CALLED ME A LIAR, WHEN, WHERE, WHAT?

WE WILL START THERE BERN

 

[JRK]

1)You're not advocating the creation, just the increase of one. Still not conservative.
2)I'm so tired of this argument. Taxpayers are employed by businesses.

Why do you keep talking about cutting taxes, a conservative idea, are saying we think it's liberal? It's dishonest. You should stop.

If you cut Google's corporate tax, will that help a single minimum wage worker?

Yes, I have issues with subsidies.

Did you miss the place in which I stated a 1 dollar cut for a 1 dollar raise? If you do not take part, you get no benifit
I am talking about a tax cut and you are callling this idea a liberal idea, why would I stop? when you do
What I am stating is a tax cut, cutting benifits people collect from the federal govt. and injecting billions into the real GDP
You are claiming I am talking about rasing the minimum wage. It is a cause and effect event that has all of these events within

Corporation exist because of the consumer, it is a relationship, not a dictatorship. One cannot exist without the other
I trade stocks daily. Do you realize corporations are reporting record profits? which is a good thing.
I am not saying but one thing. you raise the pay of 1 person 1.00 an hour for the year, you will get a tax cut for the same

Your tax cut does not let the corporation keep any more money. Sounds like something Obama would come up with.

Todd, why be this way. Your smarter than this, you have to be
what the difference in a company paying person X an extra $1000 a year and at the end of that year getting a $1000 rebate on there taxes other than cash flow?

Person X gets off of govt wellfare programs at a certain point. Nothing else

 

[JRK]

1)You're not advocating the creation, just the increase of one. Still not conservative.
2)I'm so tired of this argument. Taxpayers are employed by businesses.

Why do you keep talking about cutting taxes, a conservative idea, are saying we think it's liberal? It's dishonest. You should stop.

If you cut Google's corporate tax, will that help a single minimum wage worker?

Yes, I have issues with subsidies.

Did you miss the place in which I stated a 1 dollar cut for a 1 dollar raise? If you do not take part, you get no benifit
I am talking about a tax cut and you are callling this idea a liberal idea, why would I stop? when you do
What I am stating is a tax cut, cutting benifits people collect from the federal govt. and injecting billions into the real GDP
You are claiming I am talking about rasing the minimum wage. It is a cause and effect event that has all of these events within

Corporation exist because of the consumer, it is a relationship, not a dictatorship. One cannot exist without the other
I trade stocks daily. Do you realize corporations are reporting record profits? which is a good thing.
I am not saying but one thing. you raise the pay of 1 person 1.00 an hour for the year, you will get a tax cut for the same

NO ONE FUCKING MISSED IT. You're like a damn broken record JRK. The fact that you are proposing a tax cut along with your mandate doesn't make your mandate any less liberal. You continue to lie about this and can't for the life of me see why. NO ONE IS CALLING YOUR TAX CUT LIBERAL. THEY ARE CALLING YOUR LIVING WAGE MANDATE LIBERAL. STOP PRETENDING IT'S THE FORMER AND NOT THE LATER.

Does it need to be put in front of you for you to see how dishones you are? Heres' basically how the conversation has been going.

Todd: A mandated living wage is a liberal solution.

Your response: How can you say a tax cut is a liberal solution?

Do you see how the subjects in those two sentences are different? Do you see how you're not responding to the contention that a living wage mandate is liberal with that response?

Bern your acting like a child, stop it
Tax cuts is 1/2 of this solution, and you want me to pretend thats not true?

 

[Bern80]

1) HOW DOES THE CORPORATION PAY TAXES WITH OUT THE CONSUMERS WEALTH?

They don't. How do YOU pay taxes without your employer's wealth?

2) YOU CALLED ME A LIAR, WHEN, WHERE, WHAT?

WE WILL START THERE BERN

Well you just lied in this very post for starters. No where in this thread or anywhere else I have ever even typed the name, Romney, let alone made any statements about him. Lie two, would be continuing to claim that we are calling your tax cut liberal. No one here is. It's your living wage mandate that is being called liberal.

Bern your acting like a child, stop it
Tax cuts is 1/2 of this solution, and you want me to pretend thats not true?

No one here is pretending that you are not proposing a tax cut. The only one here pretending is you by pretending it's the tax cut half of your solution that is being called liberal.

 

[JRK]

1) HOW DOES THE CORPORATION PAY TAXES WITH OUT THE CONSUMERS WEALTH?

They don't. How do YOU pay taxes without your employer's wealth?

2) YOU CALLED ME A LIAR, WHEN, WHERE, WHAT?

WE WILL START THERE BERN

Well you just lied in this very post for starters. No where in this thread or anywhere else I have ever even typed the name, Romney, let alone made any statements about him. Lie two, would be continuing to claim that we are calling your tax cut liberal. No one here is. It's your living wage mandate that is being called liberal.

Bern your acting like a child, stop it
Tax cuts is 1/2 of this solution, and you want me to pretend thats not true?

No one here is pretending that you are not proposing a tax cut. The only one here pretending is you by pretending it's the tax cut half of your solution that is being called liberal.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-what-is-a-living-wage.html?highlight=romney
You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

There comes a time in which one wonders what your trying to do here. I gave up
Your anger has no place here
your against lowering corporate tax rates
your against lowering the cost of tax payer funded well-fare
and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

That sums it up

 

[Bern80]

Wow when you start lieing you really pull out all the stops don't you.

You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Lie. You did not admit that you were mistaken in claiming that I cited something Mitt Romney said

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

Lie. I have stated several times that I agree with your goal, just not the way you're going about it

your against lowering corporate tax rates

Lie. I am very much for lowering taxes and have said so before in this thread.

your against lowering the cost of tax payer funded well-fare

Lie. I have said repeatedly I would like welfare roles decreased as well, I simply disagree with your means of going about it.

and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

Lie. Never have I stated that an employee has nothing to do with a business' success nor do I believe it.

That sums it up

THAT sums it up JRK. You have to evade and lie to make your case because your actual idea can't hold up to logical or moral scrutiny.

 

[JRK]

Wow when you start lieing you really pull out all the stops don't you.

You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Lie. You did not admit that you were mistaken in claiming that I cited something Mitt Romney said

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

Lie. I have stated several times that I agree with your goal, just not the way you're going about it



Lie. I am very much for lowering taxes and have said so before in this thread.



Lie. I have said repeatedly I would like welfare roles decreased as well, I simply disagree with your means of going about it.

and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

Lie. Never have I stated that an employee has nothing to do with a business' success nor do I believe it.

That sums it up

THAT sums it up JRK. You have to evade and lie to make your case because your actual idea can't hold up to logical or moral scrutiny.

posting the thread that discussed romney was admitting I made a mistake
as far as the reat of your babble goes, Bern I am to busy to discuss anything with a child

You have posted countless times that corporations have rights that the employee does not
That is not a lie

 

[JRK]

Wow when you start lieing you really pull out all the stops don't you.

You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Lie. You did not admit that you were mistaken in claiming that I cited something Mitt Romney said

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

Lie. I have stated several times that I agree with your goal, just not the way you're going about it



Lie. I am very much for lowering taxes and have said so before in this thread.



Lie. I have said repeatedly I would like welfare roles decreased as well, I simply disagree with your means of going about it.

and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

Lie. Never have I stated that an employee has nothing to do with a business' success nor do I believe it.

That sums it up

THAT sums it up JRK. You have to evade and lie to make your case because your actual idea can't hold up to logical or moral scrutiny.

Bern your a liberal plant. The libs on this message hate me because 99.99% of the time my facts cannot be disputed
as here

No, you have never used those exact words, but your words have made it clear this is the way you feel and I do not recall you ever giving me credit for the idea I have presented as being conservative in any way

In life you will learn to live with who and what you are. Your countless threads claiming the employer does not owe the basic wage to survive on to the employee speaks volumes, even if that wage would not cost the employer 1 penny more
You think the employer would have succcess without the employee, and that as you have stated many times the only reaon an employee can pay his tax is because of the employer

Another thing that makes one wonder is your job allows you to rant and rave about this all day, one must suspect your either a kid or you have evreything given to you
I too a layoff insted of going to Canada, at least until after Xmas

If you are in favor of lowering taxes, then this idea does just that, yet you claim thats not true

Find me on thread that stands up for the employees rights that you have posted. I do not recall one Bern, yet you call me a liar when I state you do not think the employee has anything to do with success

Actions
Words
Being addicted to a thought that has 75% of it making govt size smaller is not a liberal idea, yet with non stop aggression to the point of your "FUCKING" anger you claim it is

what is one to take from this?

Its a broken record Bern and until you prove other wise, those things I have said are true

 

[Bern80]

Wow when you start lieing you really pull out all the stops don't you.

You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Lie. You did not admit that you were mistaken in claiming that I cited something Mitt Romney said



Lie. I have stated several times that I agree with your goal, just not the way you're going about it



Lie. I am very much for lowering taxes and have said so before in this thread.



Lie. I have said repeatedly I would like welfare roles decreased as well, I simply disagree with your means of going about it.



Lie. Never have I stated that an employee has nothing to do with a business' success nor do I believe it.

That sums it up

THAT sums it up JRK. You have to evade and lie to make your case because your actual idea can't hold up to logical or moral scrutiny.

Bern your a liberal plant. The libs on this message hate me because 99.99% of the time my facts cannot be disputed
as here

No, you have never used those exact words, but your words have made it clear this is the way you feel and I do not recall you ever giving me credit for the idea I have presented as being conservative in any way

In life you will learn to live with who and what you are. Your countless threads claiming the employer does not owe the basic wage to survive on to the employee speaks volumes, even if that wage would not cost the employer 1 penny more
You think the employer would have succcess without the employee, and that as you have stated many times the only reaon an employee can pay his tax is because of the employer

Another thing that makes one wonder is your job allows you to rant and rave about this all day, one must suspect your either a kid or you have evreything given to you
I too a layoff insted of going to Canada, at least until after Xmas

If you are in favor of lowering taxes, then this idea does just that, yet you claim thats not true

Find me on thread that stands up for the employees rights that you have posted. I do not recall one Bern, yet you call me a liar when I state you do not think the employee has anything to do with success

Actions
Words
Being addicted to a thought that has 75% of it making govt size smaller is not a liberal idea, yet with non stop aggression to the point of your "FUCKING" anger you claim it is

what is one to take from this?

Its a broken record Bern and until you prove other wise, those things I have said are true

You're projecting JRK. The difference between you and I the fundamentally different way in which the two of us view society and who is responsible for what in it. You are the liberal here JRK at least with respect to this issue.

Your entire argument stems around the fact that anyone with any job is at least ENTITLED to enough to live on. That it is at the very least an employer is responsible for providing for at least the basic needs of all of their employees. The rest of your 'solution' regarding taxes is simply a means of making numbers come out even because you know that if you ONLY raise the min wage to living wage would have major economic issues. There are two obvious conservative principles at play here. 1) What one is entitled to and 2) the concept of personal accounablity. Conservatives believe that people are entitled to no more than the rights established by the constituiton, so you're in violation of that conservative principle. Your solution also violates the conservative principle of personal accounability. Most conservatives tend to believe that individuals are responsible for their own outcomes in life and that whatever they want is up to them to achieve. Your solution absolves peope of personal responsibility. It gives people more without expecting more of them.

You keep asking this question why we are all opposed to lower taxes and what not. We're not. That's a red herring and you know it. WE HAVE THE SAME GOAL.....I think. If we do, if you're goal really is to reduce welfare roles and reduce your tax burden in having to pay for it, why are you so vehemently opposed to discussing other methods of achieving what you want? If on the other hand your goal really is to get everyone enough to live and it's an employer's responsibiity to provide that, well then you sir are in fact a liberal and there's nothing more to talk about.

 

[kwc57]

1) HOW DOES THE CORPORATION PAY TAXES WITH OUT THE CONSUMERS WEALTH?

They don't. How do YOU pay taxes without your employer's wealth?



Well you just lied in this very post for starters. No where in this thread or anywhere else I have ever even typed the name, Romney, let alone made any statements about him. Lie two, would be continuing to claim that we are calling your tax cut liberal. No one here is. It's your living wage mandate that is being called liberal.

Bern your acting like a child, stop it
Tax cuts is 1/2 of this solution, and you want me to pretend thats not true?

No one here is pretending that you are not proposing a tax cut. The only one here pretending is you by pretending it's the tax cut half of your solution that is being called liberal.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-what-is-a-living-wage.html?highlight=romney
You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

There comes a time in which one wonders what your trying to do here. I gave up
Your anger has no place here
your against lowering corporate tax rates
your against lowering the cost of tax payer funded well-fare
and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

That sums it up

This pretty well sums it up that you are ignorant. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows from reading Bern's conservative responses to you, that he never said any of those things, not implied them. They are a fantasy on your part. You have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[JRK]

Wow when you start lieing you really pull out all the stops don't you.



Lie. You did not admit that you were mistaken in claiming that I cited something Mitt Romney said



Lie. I have stated several times that I agree with your goal, just not the way you're going about it



Lie. I am very much for lowering taxes and have said so before in this thread.



Lie. I have said repeatedly I would like welfare roles decreased as well, I simply disagree with your means of going about it.



Lie. Never have I stated that an employee has nothing to do with a business' success nor do I believe it.



THAT sums it up JRK. You have to evade and lie to make your case because your actual idea can't hold up to logical or moral scrutiny.

Bern your a liberal plant. The libs on this message hate me because 99.99% of the time my facts cannot be disputed
as here

No, you have never used those exact words, but your words have made it clear this is the way you feel and I do not recall you ever giving me credit for the idea I have presented as being conservative in any way

In life you will learn to live with who and what you are. Your countless threads claiming the employer does not owe the basic wage to survive on to the employee speaks volumes, even if that wage would not cost the employer 1 penny more
You think the employer would have succcess without the employee, and that as you have stated many times the only reaon an employee can pay his tax is because of the employer

Another thing that makes one wonder is your job allows you to rant and rave about this all day, one must suspect your either a kid or you have evreything given to you
I too a layoff insted of going to Canada, at least until after Xmas

If you are in favor of lowering taxes, then this idea does just that, yet you claim thats not true

Find me on thread that stands up for the employees rights that you have posted. I do not recall one Bern, yet you call me a liar when I state you do not think the employee has anything to do with success

Actions
Words
Being addicted to a thought that has 75% of it making govt size smaller is not a liberal idea, yet with non stop aggression to the point of your "FUCKING" anger you claim it is

what is one to take from this?

Its a broken record Bern and until you prove other wise, those things I have said are true

You're projecting JRK. The difference between you and I the fundamentally different way in which the two of us view society and who is responsible for what in it. You are the liberal here JRK at least with respect to this issue.

Your entire argument stems around the fact that anyone with any job is at least ENTITLED to enough to live on. That it is at the very least an employer is responsible for providing for at least the basic needs of all of their employees. The rest of your 'solution' regarding taxes is simply a means of making numbers come out even because you know that if you ONLY raise the min wage to living wage would have major economic issues. There are two obvious conservative principles at play here. 1) What one is entitled to and 2) the concept of personal accounablity. Conservatives believe that people are entitled to no more than the rights established by the constituiton, so you're in violation of that conservative principle. Your solution also violates the conservative principle of personal accounability. Most conservatives tend to believe that individuals are responsible for their own outcomes in life and that whatever they want is up to them to achieve. Your solution absolves peope of personal responsibility. It gives people more without expecting more of them.

You keep asking this question why we are all opposed to lower taxes and what not. We're not. That's a red herring and you know it. WE HAVE THE SAME GOAL.....I think. If we do, if you're goal really is to reduce welfare roles and reduce your tax burden in having to pay for it, why are you so vehemently opposed to discussing other methods of achieving what you want? If on the other hand your goal really is to get everyone enough to live and it's an employer's responsibiity to provide that, well then you sir are in fact a liberal and there's nothing more to talk about.

Bern I am entitled to my opinion. Your biggest mistake with all of this debate is and has been you think this is about the company, the employer, the corporation

explain to me where they have a place in this other than cash flow?

Bern no more attackss, lets talk facts. Except cash flow where does the employer have a role in this?

 

[JRK]

They don't. How do YOU pay taxes without your employer's wealth?



Well you just lied in this very post for starters. No where in this thread or anywhere else I have ever even typed the name, Romney, let alone made any statements about him. Lie two, would be continuing to claim that we are calling your tax cut liberal. No one here is. It's your living wage mandate that is being called liberal.



No one here is pretending that you are not proposing a tax cut. The only one here pretending is you by pretending it's the tax cut half of your solution that is being called liberal.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-what-is-a-living-wage.html?highlight=romney
You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

There comes a time in which one wonders what your trying to do here. I gave up
Your anger has no place here
your against lowering corporate tax rates
your against lowering the cost of tax payer funded well-fare
and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

That sums it up

This pretty well sums it up that you are ignorant. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows from reading Bern's conservative responses to you, that he never said any of those things, not implied them. They are a fantasy on your part. You have a reading comprehension problem.

Calling me ignorant because dis agree
Micheal Moore
Move on.org
Bill Mayer
Thats what they do. Bern made this personal, not me.
Stop acting like a child. It amazes me that I am obviously a conservative and both of you would attack a fellow conservative
Why? just because we dis agree on this one subject?
cutting taxes
cutting the cost of well-fare
doing this without changing on thing that would effect the coporation, and after thinking about it really not cash flow
And both of you have reacted in a un rational matter to the level that I have proposed that companies give everything away to wel-fare queens

 

[kwc57]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-what-is-a-living-wage.html?highlight=romney
You know the difference with you and I, I am man enough to admit mistake

Yes you are pretending that tax cuts as well as cutting wellfare cost is not part of this

There comes a time in which one wonders what your trying to do here. I gave up
Your anger has no place here
your against lowering corporate tax rates
your against lowering the cost of tax payer funded well-fare
and you think coprorations should be allowed to conduct there business as the employee has no part in there success or failure

That sums it up

This pretty well sums it up that you are ignorant. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows from reading Bern's conservative responses to you, that he never said any of those things, not implied them. They are a fantasy on your part. You have a reading comprehension problem.

Calling me ignorant because dis agreeMicheal Moore
Move on.org
Bill Mayer
Thats what they do. Bern made this personal, not me.
Stop acting like a child. It amazes me that I am obviously a conservative and both of you would attack a fellow conservative
Why? just because we dis agree on this one subject?
cutting taxes
cutting the cost of well-fare
doing this without changing on thing that would effect the coporation, and after thinking about it really not cash flow
And both of you have reacted in a un rational matter to the level that I have proposed that companies give everything away to wel-fare queens

No sir. Disagreeing has nothing to do with saying you are ignorant. You are NOT obviously a conservative. The liberal "solution" pile of crap that you keep posting when conservatives keep trying to point you in the right direction is why I call you ignorant. You refuse to listen to reason and you refuse to learn.

No conservative in this discussion has the slightest issue with cutting taxes or even completely getting rid of welfare except for those who for physical and mental reasons need some sort of assitance. We can end welfare without raising wages. Wages are based on the value of the job and not the need of the person. I understand that you are tying an incentive of a tax reduction to a company if they will raise the amount of a given wage. We all get that. But it simply doesn't work that way. Answering phones and making copies is answering phones and making copies. It isn't brain surgery and it doesn't command a high wage. Think about this. Let's say that your idea happened. A company is given a dollar for dollar swap of taxes for increased wages this year. They bump their receptionist up from $9 per hour to $16 per hour. Two years down the road, under a ndifferent administration and congress, they decide to up corporate taxes. What is your business owner going to do now that he is paying $7 more than the job is worth and he is no longer receiving that tax incentive? See the problem here? Any given job has a value and it is set by the market. Start aritificially adjusting it thru big brother gubmint and you start having unintended consequences. It's just common sense.

 

[JRK]

This pretty well sums it up that you are ignorant. Anyone with a lick of common sense knows from reading Bern's conservative responses to you, that he never said any of those things, not implied them. They are a fantasy on your part. You have a reading comprehension problem.

Calling me ignorant because dis agreeMicheal Moore
Move on.org
Bill Mayer
Thats what they do. Bern made this personal, not me.
Stop acting like a child. It amazes me that I am obviously a conservative and both of you would attack a fellow conservative
Why? just because we dis agree on this one subject?
cutting taxes
cutting the cost of well-fare
doing this without changing on thing that would effect the coporation, and after thinking about it really not cash flow
And both of you have reacted in a un rational matter to the level that I have proposed that companies give everything away to wel-fare queens

No sir. Disagreeing has nothing to do with saying you are ignorant. You are NOT obviously a conservative. The liberal "solution" pile of crap that you keep posting when conservatives keep trying to point you in the right direction is why I call you ignorant. You refuse to listen to reason and you refuse to learn.

No conservative in this discussion has the slightest issue with cutting taxes or even completely getting rid of welfare except for those who for physical and mental reasons need some sort of assitance. We can end welfare without raising wages. Wages are based on the value of the job and not the need of the person. I understand that you are tying an incentive of a tax reduction to a company if they will raise the amount of a given wage. We all get that. But it simply doesn't work that way. Answering phones and making copies is answering phones and making copies. It isn't brain surgery and it doesn't command a high wage. Think about this. Let's say that your idea happened. A company is given a dollar for dollar swap of taxes for increased wages this year. They bump their receptionist up from $9 per hour to $16 per hour. Two years down the road, under a ndifferent administration and congress, they decide to up corporate taxes. What is your business owner going to do now that he is paying $7 more than the job is worth and he is no longer receiving that tax incentive? See the problem here? Any given job has a value and it is set by the market. Start aritificially adjusting it thru big brother gubmint and you start having unintended consequences. It's just common sense.

who said anything about 16 an hour?
14 is as hi as I have went, 12 was the number I used most
Who said anything about the tax break going away?
Its a 3 year idea in which at the end of it like GWB tax cuts it could have life of 7 more years
Taxes going up and down is why we vote every 2 years

The only problem I see is we dis agree and to you that means I am a person who you can judge to be something he is not
Big Brother Gubmit is artitificialy mandating a wage that is to low and corpotrate tax rate that is to hi, you act as thought that does not exist
Big Brother is the problem, I offer a solution and as Bern you have yet to offer one based on real events, real tax rates, real welfare cost as well as real minimum wage rates

Govt mandates a minimum wage that will trigger wellfare programs, not me
Govt mandates corporate tax rates that are in a place I had nothing to do with it except one vote
Govt, not corporations, not LLCs, what ever has not set the minimum wage, not me, not the corporation. Tis was done by the US govt

Lower taxes
more welath directly to the GDP
fewer people on welfare programs

These events are in place, I have offered a solution to change them, to make govt smaller, not invent them

And you 2 still claim this is a liberal idea?
Okay

Sense you know who and what I am, what is you answer to this problem as

it sits today?