Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[JRK]

I said because you are both proposing what is undeniably a leftist policy. That the government make businesses pay people a living wage.



That has nothing to do with how the market reacts to people having more money.



Never gave one only because it's not exactly hard info to find. Just do a simple search for some household item. Compare what you can buy it for in the U.S. vs. what it costs in Australia. I'm kind of a gamer so I looked up video game consoles. All of which cost about 30% more there. I also know the products our company builds sell for more there than they do here.



This where you continue to remain extremely dishonest. You can't be that obtuse. It is not your tax cuts that we are calling liberal. You have been told this several times. It is you wanting to use government to make a private business pay people a living wage that is a liberal idea.



We all get that JRK. We all know how they math works out how if people had 28.6k they could afford what they can't on 15k. That is not nor has ever been the fucking point. The point has been HOW to get the 15k to 28.6k. Your solution is it's an employer's responsibility to just give it to them. You said everything we need to know about how liberal you really are when you asked 'how do we get government to get these people more money'. THAT IS THE WRONG QUESTION. It isn't government's job to get these people more money. It's there own job to do whatever they have to do to get the money they need to live on.

Bern Bern Bern
Its the govt job to tkae money from me and give it to a person who does not make enough to get out of there programs
The govt dets the minimum wage Bern, not the business
Bern exlain to me why it is the govts place to set a wage that is to low, a corporate tax that is to hi, but is not there place to cut on an equal amount to raise the other?

The only thing you see that it is the govt place is to set a minimum wage that is to low and a corporate tax rate that is to hi, why is that?

Wasn't it you that complained to me about not addressing your points?

I have only complained about those statements that where not backed by the information Bern
Again you have no issue with the govt mandating a minimum wage that is so low that the employee cannot get out of the govt provided wellfare programs, but some-one suggests that we cut taxes enough to to raise that employees wage to a point where there no longer a burden to the tax payer and you have a fit
It has been that simple for a long time. to dis agree with this is your right Bern. I respect that, but you have stated reasons such as this being a liberal idea that just not true.

Cutting taxes
Utilizing that money to remove millions from govt give aways.
adding that same amount back to the GDP
You dont do it, you get no tax break
You do not work @ 7.75 an hour, you get fired, you do not work @ 14 an hour, you get fired
You get legacy cost with your base wage, they go towards your base wage
this program is implemented over 3 years

Nothing more, nothing less

 

[thereisnospoon]

STILL $11/hour, the equivalent of 1968's min wage. Do you want a diagram, Pub dupes? LOL Bring back demand...after the recovery, unfortunately....

"Bring back demand".

Funny you say that. Because you, the left wing, has praised the importation of tens of millions of ilegal aliens, aka, SURPLUS WORKERS.

In a supply and demand model, the more workers we have, the less demand employers have for labor. Thus, wages go down.

If we import workers + export jobs, we lose.

So, you lefties need to begin demanding the border be sealed, and increased deportation be continuted. That way, the supply of labor goes down, demand goes up, and wages will recover.

You in for that?

Yes. I find it fascinating that liberals and union types are pro-illegal immigration.
Then they turn around and bitch about wages in the blue collar sector( where most illegals are employed) being driven downward. They claim wages are down because the evil GOP has destroyed unions. Bullshit. Unions destroyed themselves.
These lefties do not know what they want. All they know is their misery. They claim life sucks and it's the fault of someone else other than themselves.
I am sick of the complaining. That is all lib/progressives are good for. Complaining. Fuck 'em.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Raising the min wage increases consumer demand like crazy. Prices nothing like Pubspin...

And unemployment. If what you say were really true, then producers are going to see that signal and say well if all these people will buy our widgets at this price, let's see if they'll buy them for a little more. See the problem? That's why you're seeing the housing crash you're seeing now. It used to be 'easy' to 'buy' a home. So home prices were really high because there was so much demand. Now that reality has kicked in for the people that took all those 'easy' mortgages, housing prices are plumeting. You and JRK need to understand in the free market nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in one variable lead to reactions by other variables. It's those reactions that are commonly called the laws of unintended consequences to people like you two. They are reactions to your proposals that you simply don't, or refuse to see.

The "free market"..There in lies the issue. Liberal/progressives wish to end the free market.
They claim it is unfair. They claim that because they say there is inequality in life. Oh, they will deny this, but it is true. Lib/progressives and of course the New Grunge better known as OWS, all believe in 'equality of outcome.

 

[Care4all]

what union supports the importation of illegal immigrants?

 

[JRK]

Raising the min wage increases consumer demand like crazy. Prices nothing like Pubspin...

And unemployment. If what you say were really true, then producers are going to see that signal and say well if all these people will buy our widgets at this price, let's see if they'll buy them for a little more. See the problem? That's why you're seeing the housing crash you're seeing now. It used to be 'easy' to 'buy' a home. So home prices were really high because there was so much demand. Now that reality has kicked in for the people that took all those 'easy' mortgages, housing prices are plumeting. You and JRK need to understand in the free market nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in one variable lead to reactions by other variables. It's those reactions that are commonly called the laws of unintended consequences to people like you two. They are reactions to your proposals that you simply don't, or refuse to see.

The "free market"..There in lies the issue. Liberal/progressives wish to end the free market.
They claim it is unfair. They claim that because they say there is inequality in life. Oh, they will deny this, but it is true. Lib/progressives and of course the New Grunge better known as OWS, all believe in 'equality of outcome.

If your talking about this thread, no-one has made claim to end anything
cut corporate tax rate (the taxes we pay for them, corporations pay 0 taxes) 150 billion (based on 2007 budget, the last real budget we had)
Up the minimum wage with that tax cut to 12-14 an hour
get those people out of the well-fare, medicare and Medicade by doing this as well as make tax payers out of them
put that 150 billion back in the GDP where it belongs.

Any legacy cost goes towards that minimum wage. I never thought I would be for something like this until I read a thread here that stated Australia is making it work @ 15.00 an hour and they have a lower corporate tax rate than we do.

Food Stamp use has went up to 45 million. Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Think about it

Less taxes
more wealth in the private sector (cash flow)
fewer people on the govt programs for the poor
more wealth towards the GDP

 

[Utilitarian]

Romney is a two-faced idiot. You know he's lieing because his lips are moving and he will not get my vote if he gets the Republican nom. The illegal labor comment I don't really get. How or why would that apply to the U.S.? If this fear of companies screwing employees over without a living wage mandate were really valid, most all businesses would already be paying no more than a living wage, which simply isn't the case.

There is most certainly wage depression as a result of illegal labor.

HowStuffWorks Videos "Illegal Immigrants Cause Wage Depression"

 

[JRK]

Romney is a two-faced idiot. You know he's lieing because his lips are moving and he will not get my vote if he gets the Republican nom. The illegal labor comment I don't really get. How or why would that apply to the U.S.? If this fear of companies screwing employees over without a living wage mandate were really valid, most all businesses would already be paying no more than a living wage, which simply isn't the case.

There is most certainly wage depression as a result of illegal labor.

HowStuffWorks Videos "Illegal Immigrants Cause Wage Depression"

I am not sure what Bern is trying to say up there. Illegal Immigration has destroyed the labor market in the housing sector in the south. I have talked in detail about framers making 10 bucks an hour. That was a direct cause before the bubble of people hiring illegals to frame houses with no workmans comp
Also the dry-wall business was taking a HUGE hit from those cats. Bern what are you saying?
I can tell you this, the illegal aliens was killing the housing sector before sub primes ever touched it

 

[francoHFW]

Pubs love cheap illegal labor, and have perfected distracting people from solutions that would actually work. Divide and conquer...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And unemployment. If what you say were really true, then producers are going to see that signal and say well if all these people will buy our widgets at this price, let's see if they'll buy them for a little more. See the problem? That's why you're seeing the housing crash you're seeing now. It used to be 'easy' to 'buy' a home. So home prices were really high because there was so much demand. Now that reality has kicked in for the people that took all those 'easy' mortgages, housing prices are plumeting. You and JRK need to understand in the free market nothing happens in a vacuum. Changes in one variable lead to reactions by other variables. It's those reactions that are commonly called the laws of unintended consequences to people like you two. They are reactions to your proposals that you simply don't, or refuse to see.

The "free market"..There in lies the issue. Liberal/progressives wish to end the free market.
They claim it is unfair. They claim that because they say there is inequality in life. Oh, they will deny this, but it is true. Lib/progressives and of course the New Grunge better known as OWS, all believe in 'equality of outcome.

If your talking about this thread, no-one has made claim to end anything
cut corporate tax rate (the taxes we pay for them, corporations pay 0 taxes) 150 billion (based on 2007 budget, the last real budget we had)
Up the minimum wage with that tax cut to 12-14 an hour
get those people out of the well-fare, medicare and Medicade by doing this as well as make tax payers out of them
put that 150 billion back in the GDP where it belongs.

Any legacy cost goes towards that minimum wage. I never thought I would be for something like this until I read a thread here that stated Australia is making it work @ 15.00 an hour and they have a lower corporate tax rate than we do.

Food Stamp use has went up to 45 million. Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Think about it

Less taxes
more wealth in the private sector (cash flow)
fewer people on the govt programs for the poor
more wealth towards the GDP

Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Wow, you have some weird ideas. How is $625 a month going to remove 20 million people from all govt programs?

 

[JRK]

Pubs love cheap illegal labor, and have perfected distracting people from solutions that would actually work. Divide and conquer...

Franco I am as a conservative as you will ever meet, It is destroying our country and I hate it
Exactly what are you trying to prove with your non stop spamming of hate? that worked in 08, in 2012 your looked at as what you are
You guys need to find a new approach, the people seen the truth

 

[JRK]

The "free market"..There in lies the issue. Liberal/progressives wish to end the free market.
They claim it is unfair. They claim that because they say there is inequality in life. Oh, they will deny this, but it is true. Lib/progressives and of course the New Grunge better known as OWS, all believe in 'equality of outcome.

If your talking about this thread, no-one has made claim to end anything
cut corporate tax rate (the taxes we pay for them, corporations pay 0 taxes) 150 billion (based on 2007 budget, the last real budget we had)
Up the minimum wage with that tax cut to 12-14 an hour
get those people out of the well-fare, medicare and Medicade by doing this as well as make tax payers out of them
put that 150 billion back in the GDP where it belongs.

Any legacy cost goes towards that minimum wage. I never thought I would be for something like this until I read a thread here that stated Australia is making it work @ 15.00 an hour and they have a lower corporate tax rate than we do.

Food Stamp use has went up to 45 million. Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Think about it

Less taxes
more wealth in the private sector (cash flow)
fewer people on the govt programs for the poor
more wealth towards the GDP

Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Wow, you have some weird ideas. How is $625 a month going to remove 20 million people from all govt programs?

625.00 a month?
thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12


Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number as every one would not be moving from 7.75 an hour, by average you would be around 13 I would say
many would be moving from 9-10 and 11 an hour to 14

Take 10 an hour as an avg you would have enough to raise it to close to 14. Australia is doing it @ 15 and has a lower corporate tax rate than we do

Hows that work for you? we have went over this for well over 1000 posts. Its about minimum wage

and 20 million is close 12 an hour for the record. thats 25000 a year from 16000, that removes most from the govt
We would probaly be better making it atleast 13

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

what union supports the importation of illegal immigrants?

seiu

 

[francoHFW]

Actually, I'm always right and never lie. I only hate megarich swinish Pubs. Who aren't anywhere near this forum.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If your talking about this thread, no-one has made claim to end anything
cut corporate tax rate (the taxes we pay for them, corporations pay 0 taxes) 150 billion (based on 2007 budget, the last real budget we had)
Up the minimum wage with that tax cut to 12-14 an hour
get those people out of the well-fare, medicare and Medicade by doing this as well as make tax payers out of them
put that 150 billion back in the GDP where it belongs.

Any legacy cost goes towards that minimum wage. I never thought I would be for something like this until I read a thread here that stated Australia is making it work @ 15.00 an hour and they have a lower corporate tax rate than we do.

Food Stamp use has went up to 45 million. Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Think about it

Less taxes
more wealth in the private sector (cash flow)
fewer people on the govt programs for the poor
more wealth towards the GDP

Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Wow, you have some weird ideas. How is $625 a month going to remove 20 million people from all govt programs?

625.00 a month?
thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12


Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number as every one would not be moving from 7.75 an hour, by average you would be around 13 I would say
many would be moving from 9-10 and 11 an hour to 14

Take 10 an hour as an avg you would have enough to raise it to close to 14. Australia is doing it @ 15 and has a lower corporate tax rate than we do



Hows that work for you? we have went over this for well over 1000 posts. Its about minimum wage

625.00 a month?

Yes, do I need to show you the math?

thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12

Yeah. How does that get 20 million off all government programs?

Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number

$100 is even better. So how many make less than $14? You have a real number?
How many make minimum? Do you have any real data?

 

[JRK]

Cutting the corporate tax rate 150 billion frees up enough money to remove about 20 million from all govt programs

Wow, you have some weird ideas. How is $625 a month going to remove 20 million people from all govt programs?

625.00 a month?
thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12


Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number as every one would not be moving from 7.75 an hour, by average you would be around 13 I would say
many would be moving from 9-10 and 11 an hour to 14

Take 10 an hour as an avg you would have enough to raise it to close to 14. Australia is doing it @ 15 and has a lower corporate tax rate than we do



Hows that work for you? we have went over this for well over 1000 posts. Its about minimum wage

625.00 a month?

Yes, do I need to show you the math?

thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12

Yeah. How does that get 20 million off all government programs?

Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number

$100 is even better. So how many make less than $14? You have a real number?
How many make minimum? Do you have any real data?

Todd your getting into this 1000 threads late
google 2007 budget
We brought in 350 billion if I recall in corporate rate
Google poverty rates and it will tell you how you qualify for govt help

I have done thos exersizes all I am going to do them. It is a serious look at our problem and here you come along way late and ask the same question Bern asked 500 times

That is real data dude, go back from the start of the thread and catch up. I AM NOT GOING TO GO BACK THRU ANOTHER BERN80
NO-ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING STUPID
dollar for dollar tax cut from the corporate rate (W-2 used to verify compliance)
3 years to bring it in
all legacy cost go towards the base pay (like if your getting health and a retirement)
why?
because local and state govt's could not do this because of there legacy cost

What else?
Oh yea, corporations pay 0 in taxes, the consumer pays all of them

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

625.00 a month?
thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12


Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number as every one would not be moving from 7.75 an hour, by average you would be around 13 I would say
many would be moving from 9-10 and 11 an hour to 14

Take 10 an hour as an avg you would have enough to raise it to close to 14. Australia is doing it @ 15 and has a lower corporate tax rate than we do



Hows that work for you? we have went over this for well over 1000 posts. Its about minimum wage

625.00 a month?

Yes, do I need to show you the math?

thats close to 4.00 an hour
puts the minimum wage close to 12

Yeah. How does that get 20 million off all government programs?

Actually you want to get down to brass tacks I had used 12, but realized 14 was a better number

$100 is even better. So how many make less than $14? You have a real number?
How many make minimum? Do you have any real data?

Todd your getting into this 1000 threads late
google 2007 budget
We brought in 350 billion if I recall in corporate rate
Google poverty rates and it will tell you how you qualify for govt help

I have done thos exersizes all I am going to do them. It is a serious look at our problem and here you come along way late and ask the same question Bern asked 500 times

That is real data dude, go back from the start of the thread and catch up. I AM NOT GOING TO GO BACK THRU ANOTHER BERN80
NO-ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT BEING STUPID
dollar for dollar tax cut from the corporate rate (W-2 used to verify compliance)
3 years to bring it in
all legacy cost go towards the base pay (like if your getting health and a retirement)
why?
because local and state govt's could not do this because of there legacy cost

What else?
Oh yea, corporations pay 0 in taxes, the consumer pays all of them

Unfortunately, I got into this thread way too early.

Keep saying that government mandates are conservative.

Doesn't make it so.

 

[Bern80]

I have only complained about those statements that where not backed by the information Bern Again you have no issue with the govt mandating a minimum wage that is so low that the employee cannot get out of the govt provided wellfare programs, but some-one suggests that we cut taxes enough to to raise that employees wage to a point where there no longer a burden to the tax payer and you have a fit
It has been that simple for a long time. to dis agree with this is your right Bern. I respect that, but you have stated reasons such as this being a liberal idea that just not true.

Cutting taxes
Utilizing that money to remove millions from govt give aways.
adding that same amount back to the GDP
You dont do it, you get no tax break
You do not work @ 7.75 an hour, you get fired, you do not work @ 14 an hour, you get fired
You get legacy cost with your base wage, they go towards your base wage
this program is implemented over 3 years

Nothing more, nothing less

It's one thing to have a counter point. It's another to be a completely dishonest weasel. You keep saying I've said things I've never said and corrected you on them several times all the while you keep avoiding having to address the obvious issues with your solution. Last time I'm gonna say

IT IS NOT CUTTING TAXES THAT IS BEING CALLED LIBERAL. IT IS YOU SUGGESTING THAT GOVERNMENT MANDATE WHAT A BUSINESS HAS TO PAY PEOPLE THAT IS LIBERAL SO STOP REPLYING LIKE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FORMER AND ADDRESS THE LATER.

I HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT I IN FACT DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE MINIEMUM WAGE. YOU KEEP REPLYING BACK THAT I DON'T.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This argument is a waste of time. Businesses cannot afford this so-called living wage. It's not going to happen so there is no use in discussing it's implementation.
Move on!

 

[JRK]

This argument is a waste of time. Businesses cannot afford this so-called living wage. It's not going to happen so there is no use in discussing it's implementation.
Move on!

dude if business (the tax payer) gets a dollar for dollar tax cut exactly how would this cost the tax payer (corporation) a dime?
being against this is your place in life, that is not a reason

 

[JRK]

I have only complained about those statements that where not backed by the information Bern Again you have no issue with the govt mandating a minimum wage that is so low that the employee cannot get out of the govt provided wellfare programs, but some-one suggests that we cut taxes enough to to raise that employees wage to a point where there no longer a burden to the tax payer and you have a fit
It has been that simple for a long time. to dis agree with this is your right Bern. I respect that, but you have stated reasons such as this being a liberal idea that just not true.

Cutting taxes
Utilizing that money to remove millions from govt give aways.
adding that same amount back to the GDP
You dont do it, you get no tax break
You do not work @ 7.75 an hour, you get fired, you do not work @ 14 an hour, you get fired
You get legacy cost with your base wage, they go towards your base wage
this program is implemented over 3 years

Nothing more, nothing less

It's one thing to have a counter point. It's another to be a completely dishonest weasel. You keep saying I've said things I've never said and corrected you on them several times all the while you keep avoiding having to address the obvious issues with your solution. Last time I'm gonna say

IT IS NOT CUTTING TAXES THAT IS BEING CALLED LIBERAL. IT IS YOU SUGGESTING THAT GOVERNMENT MANDATE WHAT A BUSINESS HAS TO PAY PEOPLE THAT IS LIBERAL SO STOP REPLYING LIKE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FORMER AND ADDRESS THE LATER.

I HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT I IN FACT DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE MINIEMUM WAGE. YOU KEEP REPLYING BACK THAT I DON'T.

I understand you thread to say you have an issue with all minimum wage? Well I hate to tell you this but its not going away and we have to deal with it
If you are to succed as a person who are paid to resolve issues, you cannot pretend the biggest one does not exist