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One, we don't need a partisan hack (thus the use of the phrases "sheep" and "liberalism is a mental disorder") re-interpreting the words of a rational poster.
Two, the argument here is based on the unsupported supposition that a "public option" will force the rest of the insurers out of business.
and
Three, I have NEVER known a "poor" or even "middle class" doctor, with the possible exception of brand new, fresh out of medical school, residents, who happened to work at a free clinic, in a bad area.
Every single doctor I have ever met is at the very least, "well-off" and most are quite rich.
So please, don't give me the "they have trouble paying off medical school debts" sob story, because that is definitely not going to fly.
One major problem that will develop, and one which Obama addressed yesterday and clearly said he "doesn't have all the answers to" is the shortage of primary doctors who don't want to go into more lucrative specialities and how a new influx of folks seeing GPs will affect the program as a whole. I was a little disappointed that he didn't mention the number of doctors who go through med school only to never again pick up a BP monitor or a scalpal and instead choose to join more lucractive Wall Street firms as "consultants" which has contributed to the existing shortage.
One of the questions we may want to ask ourselves is whether we want to assist more people in becoming doctors by offering to give more university grants to those in medical school and nursing school or to help increase the sizes of the various medical schools throughout our country or even partly funding... the adding of additional medical or nursing schools ....there is a major shortage of doctors and nurses throughout the entire country and most of the baby boomers haven't hit their latter years where medicine and doctors and nurses become very important to their living a decent life....let alone having enough doctors available for the younger sect of society that may need them...
where there is a shortage in supply compared to the demand, then prices for the supply on hand tend to go WAY UP in price.... we need to increase the supply, by increasing doctors and nurses and medical techs on hand.... imo....
And also by reducing the demand...and not by excluding people from getting the service, but by getting Americans on the road to healthier lifestyles through educating and informing...
As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.
"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."
That's our president trying to sell a government run health care plan, you need to ask yourself why you would want a government run anything when it's very clear that even the Mesiah thinks the government run postal service is a failure.
Sorry, but the
not a valid comparison.
The government does not dictate what UPS and Fed Ex charge to deliver a package.
where the government will limit what insurance companies can charge in both premium and out of pocket expenses in policies but will increase benefit pay out an infinite amount.
funny how everyone else is always rushing to obamas aid to clarify what he says since he finds it so difficult to spit it out himself.
post office = obams nationalist free clinic...take a number, stand in line, wait for your number, talk to an underworked overpaid asshole beurocrat, pay an additional fee to the taxes you pay for your "free" government healthscam.
just like the department of motor vehicles...walk in take a number stand in line wait for your number talk to a underworked overpaid asshole Beurocrat pay a fee get shit for service.
obamas free clinic = the department of motor vehicles.
For someone who has difficulty putting together a cohesive sentence, you either need to go back and finish grammar school or sober up if you want to be taken seriously.
Ah, my friend, Maggie the Magician.
It seems that my post #67 so devastated you that you disappeared, and here you are again, reappearing.
Recall, you made the absurd post that the Democrats should be estimeemed because they have found a way to save money, which we all know is the raison d'etre of the Dems, by limiting pharmaceuticals and procedures for the ill and the elderly.
Brilliant.
Subsequent to your absurb post, I listed eight- not a thousand- eight proposals none of which occurred to you or your Democrat friends, and challenged you find problems with the eight, as I have disposed of your attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
That's when you disappeared.
One,... the words of a rational poster.
Thank you
Unsupported, but I think if you read the language of the bill and think about the consequences of that language you will come to the same conclusion that I have. This bill will spell the end of Private Insurance coverage. It does not mandate it, but regardless, it is the stake in the heart. No business can survive if it can not write new business. No business can survive if it can not maintain its costs or boost its revenues.
This bill clearly prevents Private Health Insurers from doing just that.
I wonder how many insurance agents are set to enter the unemployment lines. Not to mention employees of the industry as well.
Three, I have NEVER known a "poor" or even "middle class" doctor, with the possible exception of brand new, fresh out of medical school, residents, who happened to work at a free clinic, in a bad area.
Every single doctor I have ever met is at the very least, "well-off" and most are quite rich.
So please, don't give me the "they have trouble paying off medical school debts" sob story, because that is definitely not going to fly.
Nor have I, but will the government maintain the standard of living of medical professionals once the government has control of the purse strings. I'm betting no.
Immie
Standard of living? What does that mean? Don't you mean standards of practice and/or ethical standards? I think the AMA still requires that doctors maintain their current skills level by periodic testing, do they not? There are plenty of bad doctors just as there are plenty of bad lawyers. In fact, I've seen some studies that suggest if you're really sick, the worst place to be is in a hospital.
Standard of living? What does that mean? Don't you mean standards of practice and/or ethical standards? I think the AMA still requires that doctors maintain their current skills level by periodic testing, do they not? There are plenty of bad doctors just as there are plenty of bad lawyers. In fact, I've seen some studies that suggest if you're really sick, the worst place to be is in a hospital.
For someone who has difficulty putting together a cohesive sentence, you either need to go back and finish grammar school or sober up if you want to be taken seriously.
Ah, my friend, Maggie the Magician.
It seems that my post #67 so devastated you that you disappeared, and here you are again, reappearing.
Recall, you made the absurd post that the Democrats should be estimeemed because they have found a way to save money, which we all know is the raison d'etre of the Dems, by limiting pharmaceuticals and procedures for the ill and the elderly.
Brilliant.
Subsequent to your absurb post, I listed eight- not a thousand- eight proposals none of which occurred to you or your Democrat friends, and challenged you find problems with the eight, as I have disposed of your attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
That's when you disappeared.
Excuse me, Ms. Perfect, but I do like to sleep at night and return in the morning when I'm refreshed.
That said, I responded to your proposals by asking why they are never put forth when Republicans are in charge. Did you answer that question? Do so, and then we can have a debate. I didn't imply they were 'bad' options at all. Ball's in your court, but I don't have all day today, either.
One,... the words of a rational poster.
Obama wants to kill(white)old people and retards. Page 142 section 10. It is true. Check it out!
LWC was speaking about me as being the rational poster.One,... the words of a rational poster.
and I can quarantee that those words did not come off of my fingertips.Obama wants to kill(white)old people and retards.
One,... the words of a rational poster.
Obama wants to kill(white)old people and retards. Page 142 section 10. It is true. Check it out!
Excuse me?
In the first quote:LWC was speaking about me as being the rational poster.One,... the words of a rational poster.
It appears that you are attributing the second quote to me:and I can quarantee that those words did not come off of my fingertips.Obama wants to kill(white)old people and retards.
Please, help me to understand what exactly you were trying to say. Actually, I don't care about me, just clarify it to the rest of the world that those words in the second quote were not mine.
Immie
Sorry, but the
not a valid comparison.
The government does not dictate what UPS and Fed Ex charge to deliver a package.
where the government will limit what insurance companies can charge in both premium and out of pocket expenses in policies but will increase benefit pay out an infinite amount.
They most certainly DO have to comply with inter-intra state transportation of goods and services regulations, my friend.
You are attempting to make sense of a parroting of the nonsense spewed by neo cons at some of the town hall meetings?
The only point is dissruption of the dialog. I thought those were the new rules.
As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.
"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."
That's our president trying to sell a government run health care plan, you need to ask yourself why you would want a government run anything when it's very clear that even the Mesiah thinks the government run postal service is a failure.
Sorry, but the
skullpilot is wrong. Congress has complete control of interstate commerce IAW the Constitution and Supreme Court rulings. If Congress can make the ICC connection to a business activity, then the feds can regulate.
Skull is giving the distant minority opinion. OK, but who cares?
As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.
"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."
That's our president trying to sell a government run health care plan, you need to ask yourself why you would want a government run anything when it's very clear that even the Mesiah thinks the government run postal service is a failure.
Sorry, but the
Will the PLAN destroy private health insurance?
Here is what it requires, for businesses with payrolls greater than $400,000 per year. (The bill uses contribution to refer to mandatory payments to the government plan.) Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE
(a) IN GENERAL.A contribution is made in accordance with this section with respect to an employee if such contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of the average wages paid by the employer during the period of enrollment (determined by taking into account all employees of the employer and in such manner as the Commissioner provides, including rules providing for the appropriate aggregation of related employers). Any such contribution
(1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Commissioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund, and
(2) shall not be applied against the premium of the employee under the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the employee is enrolled.
(The bill then includes a sliding scale of payments for business with less than $400,000 in annual payroll.)
The Bill also reserves, for the government, the power to determine an acceptable benefits plan: page 24, SEC. 115. ENSURING ADEQUACY OF PROVIDER NETWORKS.
5 (a) IN GENERAL.A qualified health benefits plan that uses a provider network for items and services shall meet such standards respecting provider networks as the Commissioner may establish to assure the adequacy of such networks in ensuring enrollee access to such items and services and transparency in the cost-sharing differentials between in-network coverage and out-of-network coverage.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.
2. Small businesseswith say 8-10 employeeswill either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government option.
3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.
4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.
5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.
6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government option will have no place else to go.
The Health Care Bill
Sorry, but the
Will the PLAN destroy private health insurance?
Here is what it requires, for businesses with payrolls greater than $400,000 per year. (The bill uses contribution to refer to mandatory payments to the government plan.) Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE
(a) IN GENERAL.A contribution is made in accordance with this section with respect to an employee if such contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of the average wages paid by the employer during the period of enrollment (determined by taking into account all employees of the employer and in such manner as the Commissioner provides, including rules providing for the appropriate aggregation of related employers). Any such contribution
(1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Commissioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund, and
(2) shall not be applied against the premium of the employee under the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the employee is enrolled.
(The bill then includes a sliding scale of payments for business with less than $400,000 in annual payroll.)
The Bill also reserves, for the government, the power to determine an acceptable benefits plan: page 24, SEC. 115. ENSURING ADEQUACY OF PROVIDER NETWORKS.
5 (a) IN GENERAL.A qualified health benefits plan that uses a provider network for items and services shall meet such standards respecting provider networks as the Commissioner may establish to assure the adequacy of such networks in ensuring enrollee access to such items and services and transparency in the cost-sharing differentials between in-network coverage and out-of-network coverage.
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.
2. Small businesseswith say 8-10 employeeswill either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government option.
3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.
4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.
5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.
6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government option will have no place else to go.
The Health Care Bill
Will the PLAN destroy private health insurance?
I certainly hope so.
One major problem that will develop, and one which Obama addressed yesterday and clearly said he "doesn't have all the answers to" is the shortage of primary doctors who don't want to go into more lucrative specialities and how a new influx of folks seeing GPs will affect the program as a whole. I was a little disappointed that he didn't mention the number of doctors who go through med school only to never again pick up a BP monitor or a scalpal and instead choose to join more lucractive Wall Street firms as "consultants" which has contributed to the existing shortage.
One of the questions we may want to ask ourselves is whether we want to assist more people in becoming doctors by offering to give more university grants to those in medical school and nursing school or to help increase the sizes of the various medical schools throughout our country or even partly funding... the adding of additional medical or nursing schools ....there is a major shortage of doctors and nurses throughout the entire country and most of the baby boomers haven't hit their latter years where medicine and doctors and nurses become very important to their living a decent life....let alone having enough doctors available for the younger sect of society that may need them...
where there is a shortage in supply compared to the demand, then prices for the supply on hand tend to go WAY UP in price.... we need to increase the supply, by increasing doctors and nurses and medical techs on hand.... imo....
And also by reducing the demand...and not by excluding people from getting the service, but by getting Americans on the road to healthier lifestyles through educating and informing...
I agree, and unless something like those incentives are offered, doctors will continue to be imported for those jobs that can't be filled except from other countries by expanding the H-IB program, and people will rightfully be bitching about that.
