Facts About Judaism

[Meriweather]

Catholic church... It has the same flaws. Unreliable myths which were raised to even higher scale and put as a cornerstone of the faith.

I disagree. For the most part.

 

[Shusha]

The Thera eruption is my favourite pet theory.

I think you understand that the earthquake couldn't cause the Plagues as they were depicted. It may well be though that this natural event and its consequences caused the creation of some myth about it afterwards. But in this case one should admit that the Plagues are only a myth which was influenced by a natural event and adopted to a certain ideological line.

The Thera eruption could very likely cause a number of environmental disasters which would be similar to conditions described as the Plagues. They might not be exactly the same, they might not have occurred in the same order, they may have been embellished to suit the story and, importantly, the purpose of the story.

Requiring ancient historical documents and traditions to exactly match modern scientific probabilities in reconstruction of an historical natural disaster in order for them to hold any value or any truth, seems a bit much to ask.

Certainly arguing that the Plagues are a myth influenced by a natural event would be a reasonable stance to take for one not invested in the faith and religious tenets of Judaism.

Was that your point?

Yes, it was.

I even add more. In my view, reason and logic were given to people not for nothing. Thanks to these 'gifts' people can explore the environment and comprehend God (I want to underline that this comprehension will be limited in any case).

I don't know why asking about historical evidence is a bit much to ask. I understand and agree that the abilities of people in those times to gather and preserve the accuracy of events were far limited than we have now.

But to say that these events faded away completely from people 's memory, especially considering that they happened in relatively modern period of Ancient Egypt...

I don't know why people still hold to the views which can be considered unreasonable but which exist in the sacred texts. In my opinion it would be far greater if one prominent religious figure said - 'Guys, we have the scriptures which were thought to have been written under the direct guise of God. But they were written by people who wrote according to their own perception and comprehension. And these things may be partially mythical and made up stories. So, to distinguish these parts we should use reason and contemporary knowledge'.

And it would be not a recognition of the flaws of the religion. On the contrary, it would be a very strong step, and the honest one. Reason was given by God to exoplore our world and what is behind it. And to behave in the way that is contrary to it is... a sin?

Well, if you think about it, it is quite a complicated marriage you are trying to put together. We have the people who witnessed the events, from the perspective of an oppressed people miraculously receiving salvation. We have the people who witnessed the events, from the perspective of the mightiest Empire to have ever existed up until then, brought to their knees with what to them must have seemed to be the ending of the world. We have the impressions and interpretations of all the storytellers and commentators and students of both history and faith layered in over thousands of years. And you are trying to marry that with the needs of a faith community in 2019.

You can't expect it to be literal and simplistic. Certainly, Judaism doesn't expect it to be literal and simplistic.

Well, I don't know what to add about it. I tried my best to make my point clear.

Do you feel your point wasn't clear? It feels like you want this to be a simple formula of 1+1=2. But people and cultures don't work that way.

What would you expect the narrative of the Hebrew people to look like? What would you expect the narrative of the Egyptian people to look like? Is it possible that your expectations are off?

And then, you seem to expect that modern Jews would have a simplistic and literal interpretation of "G-d's Word" after thousands of years; rather than a complex, nuanced, deeply rich understanding.

So, rather than questioning our understanding, maybe ask why you hold your expectations?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you feel your point wasn't clear? It feels like you want this to be a simple formula of 1+1=2. But people and cultures don't work that way.

What would you expect the narrative of the Hebrew people to look like? What would you expect the narrative of the Egyptian people to look like? Is it possible that your expectations are off?

And then, you seem to expect that modern Jews would have a simplistic and literal interpretation of "G-d's Word" after thousands of years; rather than a complex, nuanced, deeply rich understanding.

So, rather than questioning our understanding, maybe ask why you hold your expectations?

Well said.

 

[irosie91]

Do you feel your point wasn't clear? It feels like you want this to be a simple formula of 1+1=2. But people and cultures don't work that way.

What would you expect the narrative of the Hebrew people to look like? What would you expect the narrative of the Egyptian people to look like? Is it possible that your expectations are off?

And then, you seem to expect that modern Jews would have a simplistic and literal interpretation of "G-d's Word" after thousands of years; rather than a complex, nuanced, deeply rich understanding.

So, rather than questioning our understanding, maybe ask why you hold your expectations?

Well said.

speaking of "well said" -----I am still waiting for your explanation as to how and in what way you see the actions and words of Jesus as "non-Pharisee" I will not use the word
PHARISAICAL because that is a post Constantine construct

 

[rylah]

http://www.jewfaq.org/index.shtml

Thanks for the site. but I am still fuzzy on whether Judaism is a religion or a philosophy.

13 Principles of Faith
The closest that anyone has ever come to creating a widely-accepted list of Jewish beliefs is Rambam's thirteen principles of faith. These principles, which Rambam thought were the minimum requirements of Jewish belief, are:

1. G-d exists
2. G-d is one and unique
3. G-d is incorporeal
4. G-d is eternal
5. Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6. The words of the prophets are true
7. Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8. The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9. There will be no other Torah
10. G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11. G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12. The Messiah will come
13. The dead will be resurrected

The first 10 don't really specify what is actually believed, and there seems to be wide disagreement about the last three. For example:

11. When, where and how does G-d administer reward and punishment?

12. Will the Messiah be a person, prophet and/or G-d Himself? What, exactly, will he do?

13. Will the dead be physically resurrected on Earth or transported to heaven? What will happen to nonbelievers? Where do they go?

I would appreciate any answers you can provide.

11. Now here, and in the world to come, by measurements of kindness and justice
12. Yes a ruler, yes, help people realize G-d is the only King
13. Yes, there won't be non-believers, knowledge of G-d will cover earth.

The only one (I know) who covered this subject in whole is Rambam (Maimonides),
though much of Jewish thought revolves around arguments between sages, there's no argument against Rambam's position - that we will know how and in what exact order, only when it happens.

Unlike religions, Judaism is focused much on this world,
rather than some idea of transcendental cloudy stuff after death.

Judaism is a religion, but it deals with the here and now, and not on heaven and salvation.

Judaism as a religion is a compromise for the diaspora

The Jewish identity is neither religious nor secular. At least from a sociological perspective the Jewish identity in Israel is traditional (focused on heritage).

Take the nation of Israel, analyze it, was it ever a religious nation?
No, I'll tell You even more, from the times of Moshe Rabbenu A"H till today there was no such a thing, that Israel was defined as a "religious observant" community, well maybe except for insignificant short periods, but it's just a myth, (my comment: seems to me a projection of Christianity and Islam on it).

This people were mostly and simply "sliphods", at best. However of course, this "sliphod" nation is carrying on its beck a heritage that is bigger than them, and values that against its will enlighten the entire world. Whether we want that or not, ok?

Why is it so?
Because Hashem didn't choose a religion, rather a nation including all sorts of people, sort of a natural complex that within it exists a soul.

Is this clear enough?
Hashem didn't say to Avraham Avinu "And I'll make You a great religion", rather said "And I'll make You a great nation" (Beresheet 12:2). You can erase that from the Torah, but then again they say if I erase this, then the Torah scroll is invalid.

Let me clarify, it's not that I mean there's no purpose in keeping the commandments, I'm for it, ok?
I'm just asking what is the historical fact of this nation that Hashem chose.

That I said that we were "slipshods", I was even merciful, there were entire generation that worshiped idols and there was a very strange kind of syncretism and stuff like that. And I didn't say there's a legitimacy to that, only that Hashem chose a collective, I said there is a reality, whom Hashem chooses?
He chooses a public/collective. And a public (Tzibur) says the Arizal is an initials for - righteous, middle one's and the wicked. If You don't have the wicked You have no public. The Gmara (tractate Kritot 6b) says: "each fast that doesn't include of the wicked of Israel, is not a fast".

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

- Rabbi Uri Sherki
​

 

[ding]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

 

[rylah]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

 

[ding]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

 

[Mindful]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

All clear now?

 

[ding]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

All clear now?

Clear as mud.

 

[rylah]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

 

[Mindful]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

All clear now?

Clear as mud.

Thought so.

 

[ding]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

 

[Mindful]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

 

[rylah]

On the other hand the ideal for Israel is to be "a kingdom of Kohanim, and a sacred nation" (Shemot 19:6) that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d.

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

You mean being human?
How could we compare to angels like thyself of course.

Maybe we just had to "forget" so that we end up among You holy ones, as to give You a reason to "replace" us...or at least this to be the only way for You angels to give up hugging trees without losing Your egos realizing who taught whom what. Just look around, even Your universities carry Hebrew writings on the emblem...not to mention the constitution.

Overall You've downloaded that knowledge pretty well.

 

[rylah]

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

 

[Meriweather]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

 

[rylah]

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

King David: "Even that I walk in the valley of the shadow of death, I won't fear evil, for You're with me."

Rabbi Nahman of Breslev: "Also behind the difficult things happening to You, I stand, I stand;
And even in the hiding of hiding of the countenance, for certain there too is Hashem"

 

[rylah]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

You think Moses our Rabbi A"H was not a political figure?

 

[Meriweather]

You think Moses our Rabbi A"H was not a political figure?

Who did they put first? God or politics? As you know, the two cannot be totally separated, but one has to take priority over the other. We can probably debate an occasion or more where it could be argued Moses was more political than godly, but overall he is known for following God.