Facts About Judaism

[ding]

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Not according to your own prophets.

A living parable.

 

[Mindful]

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Not according to your own prophets.

A living parable.

You must be approaching this from a Christian perspective.

 

[ding]

If only they would.

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

You mean being human?
How could we compare to angels like thyself of course.

Maybe we just had to "forget" so that we end up among You holy ones, as to give You a reason to "replace" us...or at least this to be the only way for You angels to give up hugging trees without losing Your egos realizing who taught whom what. Just look around, even Your universities carry Hebrew writings on the emblem...not to mention the constitution.

Overall You've downloaded that knowledge pretty well.

That’s a cop out. A convenient excuse for failing to pass it down.

I’m no saint. Never claimed I was.

Your own texts tell you why you forgot so you are literally proving my point that the reason your people forgot was because they failed to pass it down.

So the argument you are making that your people did pass it down successfully isn’t quite true. It got passed down not because of the Jews but despite the Jews.

You hid your light from the world. You never celebrated it.

 

[ding]

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Not according to your own prophets.

A living parable.

You must be approaching this from a Christian perspective.

No. A human perspective.

 

[ding]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

I don’t intend my words to be a criticism. Remembering and forgetting God is not a Jewish thing. It is a human thing.

But they were tasked with passing it down. They have forgotten that.

 

[ding]

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

 

[ding]

You think Moses our Rabbi A"H was not a political figure?

Who did they put first? God or politics? As you know, the two cannot be totally separated, but one has to take priority over the other. We can probably debate an occasion or more where it could be argued Moses was more political than godly, but overall he is known for following God.

Politics is a dirty word. At least it has that connotation now a days.

Maybe a better word is leader. Moses was both a follower and a leader. He was a follower of God and a leader of his people.

All good leaders are good followers of God. At the heart of being a good leader is striving to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reason in all things one does.

To do that one must love the Creator more than he loves created things.

 

[Mindful]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

I don’t intend my words to be a criticism. Remembering and forgetting God is not a Jewish thing. It is a human thing.

But they were tasked with passing it down. They have forgotten that.

Passing what down?

 

[ding]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

I don’t intend my words to be a criticism. Remembering and forgetting God is not a Jewish thing. It is a human thing.

But they were tasked with passing it down. They have forgotten that.

Passing what down?

Knowledge and love of God and his ways is the short answer. Included in that would be the answers to the origin questions and our purpose.

 

[ESay]

I think you understand that the earthquake couldn't cause the Plagues as they were depicted. It may well be though that this natural event and its consequences caused the creation of some myth about it afterwards. But in this case one should admit that the Plagues are only a myth which was influenced by a natural event and adopted to a certain ideological line.

The Thera eruption could very likely cause a number of environmental disasters which would be similar to conditions described as the Plagues. They might not be exactly the same, they might not have occurred in the same order, they may have been embellished to suit the story and, importantly, the purpose of the story.

Requiring ancient historical documents and traditions to exactly match modern scientific probabilities in reconstruction of an historical natural disaster in order for them to hold any value or any truth, seems a bit much to ask.

Certainly arguing that the Plagues are a myth influenced by a natural event would be a reasonable stance to take for one not invested in the faith and religious tenets of Judaism.

Was that your point?

Yes, it was.

I even add more. In my view, reason and logic were given to people not for nothing. Thanks to these 'gifts' people can explore the environment and comprehend God (I want to underline that this comprehension will be limited in any case).

I don't know why asking about historical evidence is a bit much to ask. I understand and agree that the abilities of people in those times to gather and preserve the accuracy of events were far limited than we have now.

But to say that these events faded away completely from people 's memory, especially considering that they happened in relatively modern period of Ancient Egypt...

I don't know why people still hold to the views which can be considered unreasonable but which exist in the sacred texts. In my opinion it would be far greater if one prominent religious figure said - 'Guys, we have the scriptures which were thought to have been written under the direct guise of God. But they were written by people who wrote according to their own perception and comprehension. And these things may be partially mythical and made up stories. So, to distinguish these parts we should use reason and contemporary knowledge'.

And it would be not a recognition of the flaws of the religion. On the contrary, it would be a very strong step, and the honest one. Reason was given by God to exoplore our world and what is behind it. And to behave in the way that is contrary to it is... a sin?

Well, if you think about it, it is quite a complicated marriage you are trying to put together. We have the people who witnessed the events, from the perspective of an oppressed people miraculously receiving salvation. We have the people who witnessed the events, from the perspective of the mightiest Empire to have ever existed up until then, brought to their knees with what to them must have seemed to be the ending of the world. We have the impressions and interpretations of all the storytellers and commentators and students of both history and faith layered in over thousands of years. And you are trying to marry that with the needs of a faith community in 2019.

You can't expect it to be literal and simplistic. Certainly, Judaism doesn't expect it to be literal and simplistic.

Well, I don't know what to add about it. I tried my best to make my point clear.

Do you feel your point wasn't clear? It feels like you want this to be a simple formula of 1+1=2. But people and cultures don't work that way.

What would you expect the narrative of the Hebrew people to look like? What would you expect the narrative of the Egyptian people to look like? Is it possible that your expectations are off?

And then, you seem to expect that modern Jews would have a simplistic and literal interpretation of "G-d's Word" after thousands of years; rather than a complex, nuanced, deeply rich understanding.

So, rather than questioning our understanding, maybe ask why you hold your expectations?

Then I don't get your point. What is simplistic and a simple formula? Expecting the evidence from the Egyptians? Or literal understanding of the Plagues?

I don't know what the Egyptian narrative would look like. But in any case there would be a narrative. If I were a pharaoh and witnessed these events, then the Hebrew faith would gain one more follower and I would do my best to convert all my subjects (it wouldn't be hard to do considering that they also were the witnesses).

If for some reason I would want to diminish significance of the events and want to calm down the people then the last thing what I would do was to silence these events (how could I silence it if the whole country witnessed them?) I would make the scribes write stories how great the Egyptian gods and the pharaoh were that they didn't allow the evil Hebrew god to destroy the country. And no doubt that various stellas were built across the country to praise me for doing that.

Why do you think that I expect the modern Jews to have simplistic views? And I reiterate - what is simplistic? To expect the evidence from the Egyptians? Or to think that the Plagues happened literally?

 

[Mindful]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

I don’t intend my words to be a criticism. Remembering and forgetting God is not a Jewish thing. It is a human thing.

But they were tasked with passing it down. They have forgotten that.

Passing what down?

Knowledge and love of God and his ways is the short answer. Included in that would be the answers to the origin questions and our purpose.

I wonder what the long answer would be.

 

[ding]

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We should never forget the remnant; nor should we forget how their era showed us about those who were not of the remnant turning to politics over God.

I don’t intend my words to be a criticism. Remembering and forgetting God is not a Jewish thing. It is a human thing.

But they were tasked with passing it down. They have forgotten that.

Passing what down?

Knowledge and love of God and his ways is the short answer. Included in that would be the answers to the origin questions and our purpose.

I wonder what the long answer would be.

A lifetime of passing it down and worshiping God.

 

[rylah]

A Jewish kid comes home from school: "daddy we learned about G-d in the class today"
Daddy: "You mean the G-d that created the world, took us out from Egypt and parted the sea?"
Kid: "Yes that one"
Daddy: "Oh yeah, son that's the G-d we don't believe in"

The freaking out, wearing strange clothes for strange ceremonies and stuff,
is mostly reserved for the non-Jewish dogmatically religious folks, who all of a sudden realize there's a creator to the world who also made them. For Jews G-d is a "hommie".

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

You mean being human?
How could we compare to angels like thyself of course.

Maybe we just had to "forget" so that we end up among You holy ones, as to give You a reason to "replace" us...or at least this to be the only way for You angels to give up hugging trees without losing Your egos realizing who taught whom what. Just look around, even Your universities carry Hebrew writings on the emblem...not to mention the constitution.

Overall You've downloaded that knowledge pretty well.

That’s a cop out. A convenient excuse for failing to pass it down.

I’m no saint. Never claimed I was.

Your own texts tell you why you forgot so you are literally proving my point that the reason your people forgot was because they failed to pass it down.

So the argument you are making that your people did pass it down successfully isn’t quite true. It got passed down not because of the Jews but despite the Jews.

You hid your light from the world. You never celebrated it.

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves, and this is turning into a shallow and boring attempt at disputations, which is typical for all the religions that inherited their limited knowledge of G-d from Judaism, but at the same time still carrying an unconscious primordial detest for the fact that Jews put You in front of a choice between paganism that sees spirituality as an experience of climbing a ladder upwards to trying desperately reach infinity, and monotheism that reveals prophecy as a ladder of infinity reaching down to humanity.

The first is putting man into an unattainable equation, that fuels unconscious anger at G-d and infinite pessimism, while the later fuels a never-ending optimism.

I didn't say You were a saint, that's too earthy for Christianity and Islam, rather figuratively referred to the impossible demand both expect from humanity of being angel-like pure robotic beings. That is an inner psychological contradiction tearing the psyche apart. While Jewish thought, well...it was intended for human beings with full knowledge of their limitations and advantages over such as angels.

As for Your shallow proposal to teach me what our text say or mean, let me just politely reserve the right to chuckle on the side, and refer You further to the Barcelona Disputations, where that charade was already played out, for all to see the level to which such "arguments" usually reserve to when the clerics just can't seem to convert a learned Jewish sage with their pseudo-intellectual arguments.

I think the argument I made initially was pretty clear and simple - all is part of G-d's plan, You just changed the cause and effect expecting dualism to win the argument against a holistic attitude.

That Your last statement in the end, is just the cherry on top of how people can be driven by blind religious denial of things in front of their eyes, and the reason why 2000 yrs ago there was no other way to pass that knowledge but by tricking Your egos, so that You still believe You were the ones to do it on Your own - and a great example of what it takes to be a true teacher,
who You may like it or not - are Israel.

 

[ding]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that is the problem. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

 

[ding]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves

The following quote is a perfect example of my trying to understand what Jews believe about the nature of G-d?

Did any Jew respond or defend G-d? No.

There’s a perception here, an inaccurate one I might add, that the G-d of Abraham is cruel. What’s your response to that?

 

[Mindful]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that has led to any of my so called shortcomings in understanding Jewish beliefs. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

What Jews believe?

What kind of a question is that?


And how does blame enter into it?

 

[ding]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that has led to any of my so called shortcomings in understanding Jewish beliefs. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

What Jews believe?

What kind of a question is that?


And how does blame enter into it?

Evade some more dear.

I’m still stuck on trying to understand what you believe I have gotten wrong and why.

 

[rylah]

That seems to contradict the that guides the entire world in the knowledge of G-d thingee.

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

Probably because You have a dualistic vision, while I have a holistic universal one, that allows me to live with seemingly opposite ideas, focus seemingly.

Jewish thought is majorly based on argumentation, not one cancelling the other, even though one might be chosen as preferable, but basically holding both as true. This happens naturally at conclusion of many Talmudic discussions, and of course seemingly contradicting prophecies.

Same goes with the Jewish outlook on paganism as well as the Christian and Islamic religions,
instead of outright denying their validity, Jewish sages always looked for the sparks of truth in them, and G-d's purpose in their mere existence.

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

 

[Mindful]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that has led to any of my so called shortcomings in understanding Jewish beliefs. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

What Jews believe?

What kind of a question is that?


And how does blame enter into it?

Evade some more dear.

I’m still stuck on trying to understand what you believe I have gotten wrong and why.

You're the evasive one. Dear.


You want me to recite your catechism?


I believe in the .......blah blah.

 

[ding]

and this is turning into a shallow and boring attempt at disputations, which is typical for all the religions that inherited their limited knowledge of G-d from Judaism, but at the same time still carrying an unconscious primordial detest for the fact that Jews put You in front of a choice between paganism that sees spirituality as an experience of climbing a ladder upwards to trying desperately reach infinity, and monotheism that reveals prophecy as a ladder of infinity reaching down to humanity.

It’s actually my contention that the original meaning of the oral accounts of the Torah (Genesis 1, chapters 1-11) that had been passed down orally for thousands of years from generation to generation before Moses recorded them in writing has been lost through time.

Such that even you do not know their original meaning.