Facts About Judaism

[rylah]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that is the problem. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

Well then let me help You out - the question is a logical fallacy.

Though it may be easier for some weak minds, there's no commandment to believe.
The commandment is to know.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Be
Bei JEWISH is a RACIAL thing. It has nothing to do with the religion most adhere tongininei

Political stripe often cloaks itself in the guise of religion

at which point, it's really not a religion at all.....

This rock's biggest offenders do this 'exactly the same'

~S~

Are you claiming people are falsely saying they are Jews??????????????
My link explains exactly who is a Jew and who isn't.

 

[Mindful]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that is the problem. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

Well then let me help You out - the question is a logical fallacy.

Though it may be easier for some weak minds, there's no commandment to believe.
The commandment is to know.

Exactly.

 

[rylah]

and this is turning into a shallow and boring attempt at disputations, which is typical for all the religions that inherited their limited knowledge of G-d from Judaism, but at the same time still carrying an unconscious primordial detest for the fact that Jews put You in front of a choice between paganism that sees spirituality as an experience of climbing a ladder upwards to trying desperately reach infinity, and monotheism that reveals prophecy as a ladder of infinity reaching down to humanity.

It’s actually my contention that the original meaning of the oral accounts of the Torah (Genesis 1, chapters 1-11) that had been passed down orally for thousands of years from generation to generation before Moses recorded them in writing has been lost through time.

Such that even you do not know their original meaning.

Why do You even believe there's an "original" meaning,
rather than say an infinite wisdom for each given generation?

Stop with Your dogmas, this is becoming very boring.
There's a reason why we remained in our numbers for the last 2000 yrs,
You didn't succeed converting us out of existence - You won't now.

And we're definitely not interested in hearing what You think Judaism is "really all about".
For a nation as vibrant as Israel - well that's just too shallow and boring.

 

[rylah]

Be
Bei JEWISH is a RACIAL thing. It has nothing to do with the religion most adhere tongininei

Political stripe often cloaks itself in the guise of religion

at which point, it's really not a religion at all.....

This rock's biggest offenders do this 'exactly the same'

~S~

Are you claiming people are falsely saying they are Jews??????????????
My link explains exactly who is a Jew and who isn't.

Not racial, tribal.

 

[ding]

How so, You have the part of freaking out, we just do our thing naturally groovin'.
That's why instead of picking some angel-like wannabees from the church, rather picked the nation that would immediately do the calf thing...You know just to make sure...the only people who would actually stay sincere when He spoke.

Any more questions?

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

Probably because You have a dualistic vision, while I have a holistic universal one, that allows me to live with seemingly opposite ideas, focus seemingly.

Jewish thought is majorly based on argumentation, not one cancelling the other, even though one might be chosen as preferable, but basically holding both as true. This happens naturally at conclusion of many Talmudic discussions, and of course seemingly contradicting prophecies.

Same goes with the Jewish outlook on paganism as well as the Christian and Islamic religions,
instead of outright denying their validity, Jewish sages always looked for the sparks of truth in them, and G-d's purpose in their mere existence.

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

You don’t know what I believe. You never asked.

I believe that G-d is existence. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that G-d created the material world so that G-d could experience the material world through us. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that everything works for good. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that successful behaviors naturally lead lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. I believe that standards exist for reasons and when we violate those standards the consequences will make themselves known and will reveal the reason for the standard. I believe that life is effectively a test and that we are constantly being tested, and that our lessons will continue to be returned to us until we learn from them. Are these dualistic visions or are they holistic universal ones.

I never needed to be taught to search for value in all things. World religions have much more in common than not. I don’t profess to know the religion of another better than an adherent of that religion. It’s not my faith. But as long as I remember that they are human beings just like me I don’t have to fail miserably at it.

I look at each faith in the best possible light. It is literally the only way to discover the value in anything.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Be
Bei JEWISH is a RACIAL thing. It has nothing to do with the religion most adhere tongininei

Political stripe often cloaks itself in the guise of religion

at which point, it's really not a religion at all.....

This rock's biggest offenders do this 'exactly the same'

~S~

Are you claiming people are falsely saying they are Jews??????????????
My link explains exactly who is a Jew and who isn't.

Not racial, tribal.

The Jews are one of the 12 tribes of Jacob. Others may adopt the religion of most Jews, but the first century Church was 100% JEWISH. Today many Jews are Atheistic, but they are still Jews, because it is about race (yes, tribe) and not religion

 

[rylah]

Technically the last one wasn’t a question. But if it had been your answer wouldn’t have addressed it.

Your people have not stayed sincere. They have cycled between remembering and forgetting G-d.

The best you can say is your people have served as an example for what happens when a people cycle between remembering and forgetting G-d.

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

Probably because You have a dualistic vision, while I have a holistic universal one, that allows me to live with seemingly opposite ideas, focus seemingly.

Jewish thought is majorly based on argumentation, not one cancelling the other, even though one might be chosen as preferable, but basically holding both as true. This happens naturally at conclusion of many Talmudic discussions, and of course seemingly contradicting prophecies.

Same goes with the Jewish outlook on paganism as well as the Christian and Islamic religions,
instead of outright denying their validity, Jewish sages always looked for the sparks of truth in them, and G-d's purpose in their mere existence.

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

You don’t know what I believe. You never asked.

I believe that G-d is existence. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that G-d created the material world so that G-d could experience the material world through us. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that everything works for good. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that successful behaviors naturally lead lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. I believe that standards exist for reasons and when we violate those standards the consequences will make themselves known and will reveal the reason for the standard. I believe that life is effectively a test and that we are constantly being tested, and that our lessons will continue to be returned to us until we learn from them. Are these dualistic visions or are they holistic universal ones.

I never needed to be taught to search for value in all things. World religions have much more in common than not. I don’t profess to know the religion of another better than an adherent of that religion. It’s not my faith. But as long as I remember that they are human beings just like me I don’t have to fail miserably at it.

I look at each faith in the best possible light. It is literally the only way to discover the value in anything.

Yes this view is definitely dualistic.
Life is not a test but a (leveled down) giving.

 

[rylah]

Be
Bei JEWISH is a RACIAL thing. It has nothing to do with the religion most adhere tongininei

Political stripe often cloaks itself in the guise of religion

at which point, it's really not a religion at all.....

This rock's biggest offenders do this 'exactly the same'

~S~

Are you claiming people are falsely saying they are Jews??????????????
My link explains exactly who is a Jew and who isn't.

Not racial, tribal.

The Jews are one of the 12 tribes of Jacob. Others may adopt the religion of most Jews, but the first century Church was 100% JEWISH. Today many Jews are Atheistic, but they are still Jews, because it is about race (yes, tribe) and not religion

So we agree, it's a tribal thing.
Why insist on the word race?

 

[ding]

and this is turning into a shallow and boring attempt at disputations, which is typical for all the religions that inherited their limited knowledge of G-d from Judaism, but at the same time still carrying an unconscious primordial detest for the fact that Jews put You in front of a choice between paganism that sees spirituality as an experience of climbing a ladder upwards to trying desperately reach infinity, and monotheism that reveals prophecy as a ladder of infinity reaching down to humanity.

It’s actually my contention that the original meaning of the oral accounts of the Torah (Genesis 1, chapters 1-11) that had been passed down orally for thousands of years from generation to generation before Moses recorded them in writing has been lost through time.

Such that even you do not know their original meaning.

Why do You even believe there's an "original" meaning,
rather than say an infinite wisdom for each given generation?

Stop with Your dogmas, this is becoming very boring.
There's a reason why we remained in our numbers for the last 2000 yrs,
You didn't succeed converting us out of existence - You won't now.

And we're definitely not interested in hearing what You think Judaism is "really all about".
For a nation as vibrant as Israel - well that's just too shallow and boring.

Because the first eleven chapters of the Torah addresses the important origin questions, is the allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia which all nations share and contains important truths that were meant to be passed down.

Yes, each account has layers of knowledge that can be discovered but only in the context of the original meaning. For if the original meaning is lost then the lessor secondary lessons take on more meaning than intended and make it easier to lose the main points.

I’m not using any dogma. I am using logic. One of the implications of G-d being existence is G-d being logic.

What do you believe the account of the Tower of Babel is all about?

 

[ding]

We remember and forget Him all at the same time. He is still there.

What kind of example did you have in mind?

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

Probably because You have a dualistic vision, while I have a holistic universal one, that allows me to live with seemingly opposite ideas, focus seemingly.

Jewish thought is majorly based on argumentation, not one cancelling the other, even though one might be chosen as preferable, but basically holding both as true. This happens naturally at conclusion of many Talmudic discussions, and of course seemingly contradicting prophecies.

Same goes with the Jewish outlook on paganism as well as the Christian and Islamic religions,
instead of outright denying their validity, Jewish sages always looked for the sparks of truth in them, and G-d's purpose in their mere existence.

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

You don’t know what I believe. You never asked.

I believe that G-d is existence. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that G-d created the material world so that G-d could experience the material world through us. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that everything works for good. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that successful behaviors naturally lead lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. I believe that standards exist for reasons and when we violate those standards the consequences will make themselves known and will reveal the reason for the standard. I believe that life is effectively a test and that we are constantly being tested, and that our lessons will continue to be returned to us until we learn from them. Are these dualistic visions or are they holistic universal ones.

I never needed to be taught to search for value in all things. World religions have much more in common than not. I don’t profess to know the religion of another better than an adherent of that religion. It’s not my faith. But as long as I remember that they are human beings just like me I don’t have to fail miserably at it.

I look at each faith in the best possible light. It is literally the only way to discover the value in anything.

Yes this view is definitely dualistic.
Life is not a test but a (leveled down) giving.

I see. But you didn’t address the other ones. What about the other ones?

And don’t Jews believe that Satan is an angel who works for God whose job is to tempt and test humans? Isn’t that the Jewish understanding of the account of Job?

So if I believe that life is a test, how is that any different than the Jewish belief that Satan’s job is to test us?

 

[ding]

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

I don’t believe it is possible to lead a productive life without the divine. We were created for Him. We are much much happier worshipping the creator than the created.

Hindus believe that through multiple lives we pursue material pleasures such as fame, fortune and power but in the end none of those things will satisfy us because we were made for more.

I think they are right.

 

[ding]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that has led to any of my so called shortcomings in understanding Jewish beliefs. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

What Jews believe?

What kind of a question is that?


And how does blame enter into it?

Evade some more dear.

I’m still stuck on trying to understand what you believe I have gotten wrong and why.

You're the evasive one. Dear.


You want me to recite your catechism?


I believe in the .......blah blah.

The posts I am writing say otherwise.

You in the other hand have revealed nothing other than your evasiveness.

 

[rylah]

and this is turning into a shallow and boring attempt at disputations, which is typical for all the religions that inherited their limited knowledge of G-d from Judaism, but at the same time still carrying an unconscious primordial detest for the fact that Jews put You in front of a choice between paganism that sees spirituality as an experience of climbing a ladder upwards to trying desperately reach infinity, and monotheism that reveals prophecy as a ladder of infinity reaching down to humanity.

It’s actually my contention that the original meaning of the oral accounts of the Torah (Genesis 1, chapters 1-11) that had been passed down orally for thousands of years from generation to generation before Moses recorded them in writing has been lost through time.

Such that even you do not know their original meaning.

Why do You even believe there's an "original" meaning,
rather than say an infinite wisdom for each given generation?

Stop with Your dogmas, this is becoming very boring.
There's a reason why we remained in our numbers for the last 2000 yrs,
You didn't succeed converting us out of existence - You won't now.

And we're definitely not interested in hearing what You think Judaism is "really all about".
For a nation as vibrant as Israel - well that's just too shallow and boring.

Because the first eleven chapters of the Torah addresses the important origin questions, is the allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia which all nations share and contains important truths that were meant to be passed down.

Yes, each account has layers of knowledge that can be discovered but only in the context of the original meaning. For if the original meaning is lost than the lessor secondary lessons take on more meaning than intended and make it easier to lose the main points.

I’m not using any dogma. I am using logic. One of the implications of G-d being existence is G-d being logic.

What do you believe the account of the Tower of Babel is all about?

The Tower of Babel was an attempt to make all humanity "hostage children", people who may never be judged for not knowing better, or having the opportunity to. The purpose of Nimrod was that commandments never apply to humanity.

 

[rylah]

Oh neshamah, that was deep,
nice.

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

Probably because You have a dualistic vision, while I have a holistic universal one, that allows me to live with seemingly opposite ideas, focus seemingly.

Jewish thought is majorly based on argumentation, not one cancelling the other, even though one might be chosen as preferable, but basically holding both as true. This happens naturally at conclusion of many Talmudic discussions, and of course seemingly contradicting prophecies.

Same goes with the Jewish outlook on paganism as well as the Christian and Islamic religions,
instead of outright denying their validity, Jewish sages always looked for the sparks of truth in them, and G-d's purpose in their mere existence.

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

You don’t know what I believe. You never asked.

I believe that G-d is existence. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that G-d created the material world so that G-d could experience the material world through us. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that everything works for good. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that successful behaviors naturally lead lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. I believe that standards exist for reasons and when we violate those standards the consequences will make themselves known and will reveal the reason for the standard. I believe that life is effectively a test and that we are constantly being tested, and that our lessons will continue to be returned to us until we learn from them. Are these dualistic visions or are they holistic universal ones.

I never needed to be taught to search for value in all things. World religions have much more in common than not. I don’t profess to know the religion of another better than an adherent of that religion. It’s not my faith. But as long as I remember that they are human beings just like me I don’t have to fail miserably at it.

I look at each faith in the best possible light. It is literally the only way to discover the value in anything.

Yes this view is definitely dualistic.
Life is not a test but a (leveled down) giving.

I see. But you didn’t address the other ones. What about the other ones?

And don’t Jews believe that Satan is an angel who works for God whose job is to tempt and test humans? Isn’t that the Jewish understanding of the account of Job?

So if I believe that life is a test, how is that any different than the Jewish belief that Satan’s job is to test us?

You don't see beyond the test, its purpose.
There's no "job"... it's just a leveling down of truth for a limited vessel.

A soul just shies away from receiving "free bread".

 

[ding]

No excuses, You're just taking an ignorant position where You pretend to to actually know Judaism more than Jews themselves,

Actually this isn’t true at all. If you go back to the beginning of this thread I expressed a sincere desire to understand what Jews believe.

It is the evasiveness of Jews to discuss their faith that is the problem. So if I have gotten anything wrong, which I don’t believe I have, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

But what exactly have I gotten wrong?

Well then let me help You out - the question is a logical fallacy.

Though it may be easier for some weak minds, there's no commandment to believe.
The commandment is to know.

That’s pretty non responsive to my proving to you that I asked first.

Look, if you want to believe I have a weak mind that just works to my advantage.

 

[ding]

and this is turning into a shallow and boring attempt at disputations, which is typical for all the religions that inherited their limited knowledge of G-d from Judaism, but at the same time still carrying an unconscious primordial detest for the fact that Jews put You in front of a choice between paganism that sees spirituality as an experience of climbing a ladder upwards to trying desperately reach infinity, and monotheism that reveals prophecy as a ladder of infinity reaching down to humanity.

It’s actually my contention that the original meaning of the oral accounts of the Torah (Genesis 1, chapters 1-11) that had been passed down orally for thousands of years from generation to generation before Moses recorded them in writing has been lost through time.

Such that even you do not know their original meaning.

Why do You even believe there's an "original" meaning,
rather than say an infinite wisdom for each given generation?

Stop with Your dogmas, this is becoming very boring.
There's a reason why we remained in our numbers for the last 2000 yrs,
You didn't succeed converting us out of existence - You won't now.

And we're definitely not interested in hearing what You think Judaism is "really all about".
For a nation as vibrant as Israel - well that's just too shallow and boring.

Because the first eleven chapters of the Torah addresses the important origin questions, is the allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia which all nations share and contains important truths that were meant to be passed down.

Yes, each account has layers of knowledge that can be discovered but only in the context of the original meaning. For if the original meaning is lost than the lessor secondary lessons take on more meaning than intended and make it easier to lose the main points.

I’m not using any dogma. I am using logic. One of the implications of G-d being existence is G-d being logic.

What do you believe the account of the Tower of Babel is all about?

The Tower of Babel was an attempt to make all humanity "hostage children", people who may never be judged for not knowing better, or having the opportunity to. The purpose of Nimrod was that commandments never apply to humanity.

Wrong. It was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization; a historical event.

Thus proving the original meaning was lost through time by your people.

 

[rylah]

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

I don’t believe it is possible to lead a productive life without the divine. We were created for Him. We are much much happier worshipping the creator than the created.

Hindus believe that through multiple lives we pursue material pleasures such as fame, fortune and power but in the end none of those things will satisfy us because we were made for more.

I think they are right.

And there's a spark of truth in Hinduism as well.
Just not yet at this stage...

 

[ding]

Yes, He is still there regardless of what we do. I hope that is the deep part you were referring to because I’m struggling to see how we forget and remember at the same time because those phenomena have shown to be longer wavelength events. At the individual level it is a shorter wavelength but still not at the same time.

Probably because You have a dualistic vision, while I have a holistic universal one, that allows me to live with seemingly opposite ideas, focus seemingly.

Jewish thought is majorly based on argumentation, not one cancelling the other, even though one might be chosen as preferable, but basically holding both as true. This happens naturally at conclusion of many Talmudic discussions, and of course seemingly contradicting prophecies.

Same goes with the Jewish outlook on paganism as well as the Christian and Islamic religions,
instead of outright denying their validity, Jewish sages always looked for the sparks of truth in them, and G-d's purpose in their mere existence.

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

You don’t know what I believe. You never asked.

I believe that G-d is existence. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that G-d created the material world so that G-d could experience the material world through us. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that everything works for good. Is that a dualistic vision or a holistic universal one?

I believe that successful behaviors naturally lead lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure. I believe that standards exist for reasons and when we violate those standards the consequences will make themselves known and will reveal the reason for the standard. I believe that life is effectively a test and that we are constantly being tested, and that our lessons will continue to be returned to us until we learn from them. Are these dualistic visions or are they holistic universal ones.

I never needed to be taught to search for value in all things. World religions have much more in common than not. I don’t profess to know the religion of another better than an adherent of that religion. It’s not my faith. But as long as I remember that they are human beings just like me I don’t have to fail miserably at it.

I look at each faith in the best possible light. It is literally the only way to discover the value in anything.

Yes this view is definitely dualistic.
Life is not a test but a (leveled down) giving.

I see. But you didn’t address the other ones. What about the other ones?

And don’t Jews believe that Satan is an angel who works for God whose job is to tempt and test humans? Isn’t that the Jewish understanding of the account of Job?

So if I believe that life is a test, how is that any different than the Jewish belief that Satan’s job is to test us?

You don't see beyond the test, its purpose.
There's no "job"... it's just a leveling down of truth for a limited vessel.

A soul just shies away from receiving "free bread".

Again... you don’t know what I believe.

I understand the purpose just fine: to progress us.

 

[ding]

Even if we were to put the divine aside for a moment, this is a much healthier attitude to life and wisdom, than shallows, simplistic dogmatic fear of truth.

I don’t believe it is possible to lead a productive life without the divine. We were created for Him. We are much much happier worshipping the creator than the created.

Hindus believe that through multiple lives we pursue material pleasures such as fame, fortune and power but in the end none of those things will satisfy us because we were made for more.

I think they are right.

And there's a spark of truth in Hinduism as well.
Just not yet at this stage...

I don’t think that’s your call.