Failure of the Welfare State

[UpAndAbout]

It is the oldest lesson in the human experience. If you teach someone to do something for themselves then you engender self-reliance. If you give them everything that they need, you breed reliance and dependency. The left only has to look to the American Indians and the reservations to see what their entitlement mind set brings. But no, let's continue to 'give' and hope for a different outcome.

The south side of Chicago is a war zone. Hundreds of millions of dollars has done nothing to stem the tide of poverty, out-of-wedlock births and crime. Yet, we hear the same things today we have heard since LBJ... We must provide for those who do not have. What we must do is to provide a means to work your way out of the cycle of poverty... if you do not take the way out, then you're on your own.

Another EXCELLENT thread by Political Chic!

"Give a man a fish, you have fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you have fed him for a lifetime" -Someone who isn't me

Exactly! You took the words right out of my mouth!!

 

[M14 Shooter]

I already posted that the expansion of the food stamp program, by Obama,
actually LOWERED THE POVERTY RATE,
thus demolishing all of your idiotic premises.

Speaking of an idiotic premise...

Percentage of people below poverty level
2009 14.3
2010 15.1
2011 ?
Poverty Data - Historical Poverty Tables: People - U.S Census Bureau
table 5

1: Show that the percentage of people below poverty level wend down in 2011
2: Show that The Obama's "expansion of the food stamp program" caused this.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Why is it that the "left" constantly accuses the "right" of pandering to the wealthy while ignoring the "poor". I guess they just don't pay much attention to whom the "lefty" politicians are also selling their votes when it comes to passing legislation.
The pols are owned by big business, the unions, and a select few, socialist-leaning multi-millionaires. They take most of their campaign money from those sources. They will promise the "poor" everything they think they want in order to secure sufficient votes to ensure they (the pols) can continue to launder taxpayer monies through their big donors.

 

[Too Tall]

" to help stabilize the economy during recessions "

Well, I guess if you're happy with a stable economy with low to no growth and high unemployment, you must be in liberal heaven.

If we could just stop spending so much money supporting retired military sitting on their asses, we might be ok.

Are you referring to those retired military men and women that are "sitting on their asses" because an IED blew off both of their legs?

Just asking!

 

[PoliticalChic]

" to help stabilize the economy during recessions "

Well, I guess if you're happy with a stable economy with low to no growth and high unemployment, you must be in liberal heaven.

If we could just stop spending so much money supporting retired military sitting on their asses, we might be ok.

Are you referring to those retired military men and women that are "sitting on their asses" because an IED blew off both of their legs?

Just asking!

I got your drift...but cut him some slack...I believe he was being sarcastic....

 

[The T]

Liberals/Dems/leftists support the welfare state because the promise of government entitlement payments allows them to buy votes; if the welfare state did not serve as a means to gain and retain political power, they would not give one hoot in hell about it.

Romney is running on promises of another huge tax cut for upper income Americans and corporations. Is that buying votes?

And what is Obama doing with his Class Warfare? Class Envy? Wealth redistribution? Promising to NAIL the rich and give it to the moochers.

I'd say that classifies as BUYING VOTES...

 

[Interpol]

Well, speaking from a fiscal conservative, I'd say that corporate welfare is the reason why we got here.

While the insurance lobby and the military industrial complex had their best decades in American history, seems that we fell short on the promise of helping to build a society where people can actually elevate themselves beyond service-oriented jobs.

If a race to the bottom with Mexico and China is what we wanted to do, we sure did do a good job at it, handing massive sums of wealth to the already-successful in the hopes that it would strengthen society, but that just didn't happen.

In that case, a conservative person has to course-correct on some things, but now it seems like the conservatives want liberal spending policies to continue in terms of corporate welfare, while it's the usual economic liberals who are taking the conservative stance of paring that back, which I think is the conservative thing to do.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I already posted that the expansion of the food stamp program, by Obama,
actually LOWERED THE POVERTY RATE,
thus demolishing all of your idiotic premises.

Speaking of an idiotic premise...

Percentage of people below poverty level
2009 14.3
2010 15.1
2011 ?
Poverty Data - Historical Poverty Tables: People - U.S Census Bureau
table 5

1: Show that the percentage of people below poverty level wend down in 2011
2: Show that The Obama's "expansion of the food stamp program" caused this.

I'm sorry you entered the thread late, but I'm not going to post everything twice.

 

[JoeB131]

“... After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. I am strongly of opinion that the great majority of people will always find these are moving impulses of our life. … Wealth is the product of industry, ambition, character and untiring effort.

In all experience, the accumulation of wealth means the multiplication of schools, the increase of knowledge, the dissemination of intelligence, the encouragement of science, the broadening of outlook, the expansion of liberties, the widening of culture. Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence. But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it.”

President Calvin Coolidge
January 17, 1925
Given before the American Society of Newspaper Editors

You realize Calvin Coolidge is rated one of the worst presidents in our history, right, and that his hands off approach led to the Great Depression?

 

[PoliticalChic]

“... After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. I am strongly of opinion that the great majority of people will always find these are moving impulses of our life. … Wealth is the product of industry, ambition, character and untiring effort.

In all experience, the accumulation of wealth means the multiplication of schools, the increase of knowledge, the dissemination of intelligence, the encouragement of science, the broadening of outlook, the expansion of liberties, the widening of culture. Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence. But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it.”

President Calvin Coolidge
January 17, 1925
Given before the American Society of Newspaper Editors

You realize Calvin Coolidge is rated one of the worst presidents in our history, right, and that his hands off approach led to the Great Depression?

1. Seems telling that you would avoid the essence of he above quote, which is brilliant....

2. ...instead you hide behind the alleged opinion of some imagined 'historian.'

3. Any 'worst President' nonsense is always the boilerplate of Liberal and Progressive academics. Do your own research.


4. Coolidge was a tax cutter and a model for Ronald Reagan’s “supply-side” economics. He understood that tax cuts would work in the way the Laffer Curve explained. In 1924 SOTU he said “the larger incomes of the country would actually yield more revenue to the government if the basis of taxation were scientifically revised downward….when the taxation of large incomes is excessive they tend to disappear.”

a. "I agree perfectly with those who wish to relieve the small taxpayer by getting the largest possible contribution from the people with large incomes. But if the rates on large incomes are so high that they disappear, the small taxpayer will be left to bear the entire burden. If on the other hand, the rates are placed where they will produce the most revenue from large incomes, then the small taxpayer will be relieved." Quotable Coolidge

b. Both Clinton and Obama believe taxation is for 'fairness,' not to raise revenue.


5. In 1927, Coolidge was asked to sign a farm relief bill that would require the federal government to buy surplus farm products to prop up prices (Roosevelt’s policy a decade later): Nothing is more certain than that such price fixing would upset the normal exchange relationships existing in the open market and that it would finally have to be extended to cover a multitude of other goods and services. Government price fixing, once started, has alike no justice and no end. It is an economic folly from which this country has every right to be spared.” http://www.sonic.net/~scds/resources/US-History/1927_President Coolidge Vetoes McNary-Haugen.pdf


Understanding the nature of a constitutional, conservative, successful President such as Coolidge is based on education, rather than indoctrination.

Proof? Sure...more and more scholarly work is revealing that the recession became "the Great Depression' due to the progressive mishandling of the economy by Roosevelt.


Coolidge is associated with the success known as 'The Roaring Twenties.'



Educate yourself, and stop being led.


BTW...the election of 1924 pitted two conservatives against one another. The great Democrat Davis would have been an equally worthy President....see what he said about FDR in the next decade.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, have a degree in history.

There isn't a serious historian out that that doesn't think Calvin Coolidge was a complete fucking retard.

And the quote is actually pretty stupid in itself. It's a rather silly defense of plutocracy which by 1929, was clear didn't really work.

America did not become great until the New Deal reforms that opened prosperity to everyone, and Republicans after Coolidge got the point. Ike, Nixon, Ford, all realized this. It wasn't until Reagan that somehow, Coolidge started getting this warm-over that ignored how he caused the Great Depression by letting the wealthy run amok.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sorry, have a degree in history.

There isn't a serious historian out that that doesn't think Calvin Coolidge was a complete fucking retard.

And the quote is actually pretty stupid in itself. It's a rather silly defense of plutocracy which by 1929, was clear didn't really work.

America did not become great until the New Deal reforms that opened prosperity to everyone, and Republicans after Coolidge got the point. Ike, Nixon, Ford, all realized this. It wasn't until Reagan that somehow, Coolidge started getting this warm-over that ignored how he caused the Great Depression by letting the wealthy run amok.

1. "Sorry, have a degree in history."

So....you're proving that said degree means nothing?

2. "There isn't a serious historian out that..."
Since everything that I posted is absolutely true...all you are saying is that the word 'serious,' to you, means 'liberal progressive Janissary of the Left."


3. " by 1929, was clear didn't really work."

Of course it worked...as even you cannot deny the 'Roaring Twenties.'
Only a dim-wit would think there was no business cycle....and it only 'works' if so in perpetuity.


Here, me try the same nonsense: FDR was a catastrophe, since he caused the meltdown of 2007....

4. "America did not become great until the New Deal reforms that opened prosperity to everyone,..."
What better proof that you have been propagandized...and are unable to think beyond same.

The Roaring Twenties benefited all.
Pick up a book.


Again...the anti-constitutionalists Woodrow Wilson, FDR and LBJ destroyed the economy and saddled America with the debt burdens under which we labor today.

 

[JoeB131]

Ooooookay, Academia is just a big liberal conspiracy... Got it.

I mean, I guess they deviously hid the truth about Calvin from you in things called "Books", but there's a reason they don't name ships or schools after this guy.

He sucked.

Even Republicans are moderately embarrassed by him.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course it worked...as even you cannot deny the 'Roaring Twenties.'
Only a dim-wit would think there was no business cycle....and it only 'works' if so in perpetuity

The only reason why we had "Roaring" twenties was because WWI had changed the international econmic landscape. The US replaced Russia as the world's biggest exporter of wheat (until strip farming caused the Dust Bowl), and a huge influx of money from Europe purchasing war materials changed America from a debtor to a creditor nation.

In short, nothing to do with Calvin, as the Roaring Twenties were Roaring long before he became president after the unfortunate death of Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)

It should also be pointed out that the 1920's was also a period of grinding poverty for immigrants and in many of the major cities, organized crime ran rampant. (Something that we sort of romanticize today, but was really not a good thing.) Then again, the Middle Ages were probably cool if you were a knight, but sucked if you were a peasent.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course it worked...as even you cannot deny the 'Roaring Twenties.'
Only a dim-wit would think there was no business cycle....and it only 'works' if so in perpetuity

The only reason why we had "Roaring" twenties was because WWI had changed the international econmic landscape. The US replaced Russia as the world's biggest exporter of wheat (until strip farming caused the Dust Bowl), and a huge influx of money from Europe purchasing war materials changed America from a debtor to a creditor nation.

In short, nothing to do with Calvin, as the Roaring Twenties were Roaring long before he became president after the unfortunate death of Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)

It should also be pointed out that the 1920's was also a period of grinding poverty for immigrants and in many of the major cities, organized crime ran rampant. (Something that we sort of romanticize today, but was really not a good thing.) Then again, the Middle Ages were probably cool if you were a knight, but sucked if you were a peasent.

1. I just love the dance you marionettes perform...

....I haven’t seen such contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


2. Somehow, the "Roaring Twenties" had nothing to do with the governmental policies of a conservative President....

....but there were magnificent benefits due to FDR's policies....no matter that it's recognized today that he managed to extend the downturn by about a decade.


Bet you don't believe that President Reagan had nothing to do with the 'Reagan Boom.'

Diaphanous.



3. Another perfect example of how you Lefties are totally hypnotized:

" Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)...

Would you say the same about JFK?
" Kennedy: (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)"?


Kennedy and Harding served as President for almost the same length of time. Harding’s reputation suffers due to the Teapot Dome Scandal, and Harding’s Attorney-General Daugherty charged with bribery (and acquitted). Jeremy Rabkin: 'Harding must be considered the most successful postwar presidents in American history.”

Kennedy’s record was decidedly mixed, as well…Bay of Pigs, and involvement in Vietman vs. the Cuban missile crisis and the nuclear test ban. Both men were “chick magnets.” Clearly, the two are not given equal shrift in the popular literature and Liberal hagiography.


Admit it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of course it worked...as even you cannot deny the 'Roaring Twenties.'
Only a dim-wit would think there was no business cycle....and it only 'works' if so in perpetuity

The only reason why we had "Roaring" twenties was because WWI had changed the international econmic landscape. The US replaced Russia as the world's biggest exporter of wheat (until strip farming caused the Dust Bowl), and a huge influx of money from Europe purchasing war materials changed America from a debtor to a creditor nation.

In short, nothing to do with Calvin, as the Roaring Twenties were Roaring long before he became president after the unfortunate death of Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)

It should also be pointed out that the 1920's was also a period of grinding poverty for immigrants and in many of the major cities, organized crime ran rampant. (Something that we sort of romanticize today, but was really not a good thing.) Then again, the Middle Ages were probably cool if you were a knight, but sucked if you were a peasent.

1. I just love the dance you marionettes perform...

....I haven’t seen such contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


2. Somehow, the "Roaring Twenties" had nothing to do with the governmental policies of a conservative President....

....but there were magnificent benefits due to FDR's policies....no matter that it's recognized today that he managed to extend the downturn by about a decade.


Bet you don't believe that President Reagan had nothing to do with the 'Reagan Boom.'

Diaphanous.



3. Another perfect example of how you Lefties are totally hypnotized:

" Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)...

Would you say the same about JFK?
" Kennedy: (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)"?


Kennedy and Harding served as President for almost the same length of time. Harding’s reputation suffers due to the Teapot Dome Scandal, and Harding’s Attorney-General Daugherty charged with bribery (and acquitted). Jeremy Rabkin: 'Harding must be considered the most successful postwar presidents in American history.”

Kennedy’s record was decidedly mixed, as well…Bay of Pigs, and involvement in Vietman vs. the Cuban missile crisis and the nuclear test ban. Both men were “chick magnets.” Clearly, the two are not given equal shrift in the popular literature and Liberal hagiography.


Admit it.

The Reagan 'boom' was fueled by

1. the natural rebound of a business cycle coming out of the worst recession since the depression.

2. the dramatic shift in Fed interest rate policy that dramatically drove down interest rates

3. the steep decline in oil prices.

4. the stimulative effect of Reagan's profligate deficit spending.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The only reason why we had "Roaring" twenties was because WWI had changed the international econmic landscape. The US replaced Russia as the world's biggest exporter of wheat (until strip farming caused the Dust Bowl), and a huge influx of money from Europe purchasing war materials changed America from a debtor to a creditor nation.

In short, nothing to do with Calvin, as the Roaring Twenties were Roaring long before he became president after the unfortunate death of Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)

It should also be pointed out that the 1920's was also a period of grinding poverty for immigrants and in many of the major cities, organized crime ran rampant. (Something that we sort of romanticize today, but was really not a good thing.) Then again, the Middle Ages were probably cool if you were a knight, but sucked if you were a peasent.

1. I just love the dance you marionettes perform...

....I haven’t seen such contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


2. Somehow, the "Roaring Twenties" had nothing to do with the governmental policies of a conservative President....

....but there were magnificent benefits due to FDR's policies....no matter that it's recognized today that he managed to extend the downturn by about a decade.


Bet you don't believe that President Reagan had nothing to do with the 'Reagan Boom.'

Diaphanous.



3. Another perfect example of how you Lefties are totally hypnotized:

" Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)...

Would you say the same about JFK?
" Kennedy: (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)"?


Kennedy and Harding served as President for almost the same length of time. Harding’s reputation suffers due to the Teapot Dome Scandal, and Harding’s Attorney-General Daugherty charged with bribery (and acquitted). Jeremy Rabkin: 'Harding must be considered the most successful postwar presidents in American history.”

Kennedy’s record was decidedly mixed, as well…Bay of Pigs, and involvement in Vietman vs. the Cuban missile crisis and the nuclear test ban. Both men were “chick magnets.” Clearly, the two are not given equal shrift in the popular literature and Liberal hagiography.


Admit it.

The Reagan 'boom' was fueled by

1. the natural rebound of a business cycle coming out of the worst recession since the depression.

2. the dramatic shift in Fed interest rate policy that dramatically drove down interest rates

3. the steep decline in oil prices.

4. the stimulative effect of Reagan's profligate deficit spending.

Another dunce screaming that the policies of a conservative President weren't responsible for huge successes that benefited all!

I love it!

Am I prescient or am I prescient!!!


Hey, Einstein...would you say the same about any recent stock market improvements?
"the Obama 'summer of recovery'... fueled by the natural rebound of a business cycle..."



More Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this
bull before....

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. I just love the dance you marionettes perform...

....I haven’t seen such contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


2. Somehow, the "Roaring Twenties" had nothing to do with the governmental policies of a conservative President....

....but there were magnificent benefits due to FDR's policies....no matter that it's recognized today that he managed to extend the downturn by about a decade.


Bet you don't believe that President Reagan had nothing to do with the 'Reagan Boom.'

Diaphanous.



3. Another perfect example of how you Lefties are totally hypnotized:

" Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)...

Would you say the same about JFK?
" Kennedy: (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)"?


Kennedy and Harding served as President for almost the same length of time. Harding’s reputation suffers due to the Teapot Dome Scandal, and Harding’s Attorney-General Daugherty charged with bribery (and acquitted). Jeremy Rabkin: 'Harding must be considered the most successful postwar presidents in American history.”

Kennedy’s record was decidedly mixed, as well…Bay of Pigs, and involvement in Vietman vs. the Cuban missile crisis and the nuclear test ban. Both men were “chick magnets.” Clearly, the two are not given equal shrift in the popular literature and Liberal hagiography.


Admit it.

The Reagan 'boom' was fueled by

1. the natural rebound of a business cycle coming out of the worst recession since the depression.

2. the dramatic shift in Fed interest rate policy that dramatically drove down interest rates

3. the steep decline in oil prices.

4. the stimulative effect of Reagan's profligate deficit spending.

Another dunce screaming that the policies of a conservative President weren't responsible for huge successes that benefited all!

I love it!

Am I prescient or am I prescient!!!


Hey, Einstein...would you say the same about any recent stock market improvements?
"the Obama 'summer of recovery'... fueled by the natural rebound of a business cycle..."



More Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this
bull before....

Do you want to dispute the facts of my post or not?

The 80's expansion had little to do with Reagan being a conservative. If you needed a conservative president for an economic expansion, you wouldn't have the expansion of the 90's.

 

[The T]

1. I just love the dance you marionettes perform...

....I haven’t seen such contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


2. Somehow, the "Roaring Twenties" had nothing to do with the governmental policies of a conservative President....

....but there were magnificent benefits due to FDR's policies....no matter that it's recognized today that he managed to extend the downturn by about a decade.


Bet you don't believe that President Reagan had nothing to do with the 'Reagan Boom.'

Diaphanous.



3. Another perfect example of how you Lefties are totally hypnotized:

" Warren Harding. (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)...

Would you say the same about JFK?
" Kennedy: (Who actually despite some scandals, was a decent human being.)"?


Kennedy and Harding served as President for almost the same length of time. Harding’s reputation suffers due to the Teapot Dome Scandal, and Harding’s Attorney-General Daugherty charged with bribery (and acquitted). Jeremy Rabkin: 'Harding must be considered the most successful postwar presidents in American history.”

Kennedy’s record was decidedly mixed, as well…Bay of Pigs, and involvement in Vietman vs. the Cuban missile crisis and the nuclear test ban. Both men were “chick magnets.” Clearly, the two are not given equal shrift in the popular literature and Liberal hagiography.


Admit it.

The Reagan 'boom' was fueled by

1. the natural rebound of a business cycle coming out of the worst recession since the depression.

2. the dramatic shift in Fed interest rate policy that dramatically drove down interest rates

3. the steep decline in oil prices.

4. the stimulative effect of Reagan's profligate deficit spending.

Another dunce screaming that the policies of a conservative President weren't responsible for huge successes that benefited all!

I love it!

Am I prescient or am I prescient!!!


Hey, Einstein...would you say the same about any recent stock market improvements?
"the Obama 'summer of recovery'... fueled by the natural rebound of a business cycle..."



More Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this
bull before....

But Statist policies are sound...(that's what they want us to belive).

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Reagan 'boom' was fueled by

1. the natural rebound of a business cycle coming out of the worst recession since the depression.

2. the dramatic shift in Fed interest rate policy that dramatically drove down interest rates

3. the steep decline in oil prices.

4. the stimulative effect of Reagan's profligate deficit spending.

Another dunce screaming that the policies of a conservative President weren't responsible for huge successes that benefited all!

I love it!

Am I prescient or am I prescient!!!


Hey, Einstein...would you say the same about any recent stock market improvements?
"the Obama 'summer of recovery'... fueled by the natural rebound of a business cycle..."



More Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this
bull before....

Do you want to dispute the facts of my post or not?

The 80's expansion had little to do with Reagan being a conservative. If you needed a conservative president for an economic expansion, you wouldn't have the expansion of the 90's.

What I want to dispute is that you know anything!

I'm astounded that you can frequently find you way back to that refrigerator box you call home.