"Far Right" can't win for GOP? ...BS!

[paulitician]

The Big Government Police State grows larger and more powerful by the day. And that's because both Parties want it that way. The fight for smaller Government is over. There's no use fighting that losing battle anymore. That ship sailed a long time ago.

So it's time for all you small government Libertarian warriors to hang it up. The war is over. And you lost. The Neocons and Communists/Progressives run the show. This Big Government is only gonna grow bigger. Now Americans will just have to try to figure out how they can get theirs in this Big Government mess. Everyone's got their hand out for a Freebie. How are you gonna get yours?

Well I disagree with your cynical view of our potential for smaller more limited government. I think that is very much achievable and obtainable and The People can take their government back. Yes it will be hard, nothing worthwhile has ever been easy.

I also have to disagree that there is "no use fighting it" because that's exactly what we MUST do! There really isn't another alternative except to give up and become slaves. I can only speak for myself, but I'm not ready to give up what so many have shed blood and given their lives to protect and secure. It is far too important to give up.

You are absolutely right about everyone wanting theirs, and it is a long-standing problem... with politics in general! The very nature of government is to grow larger and assume more power over the individual. George Washington was very aware of this and he wrote about it. Regardless of who we are or where we are on the political spectrum, we go out there every election and vote for the candidate who promised us the most stuff.

They promised to use their power to give us what we want by taking it from someone else. We won't vote for them otherwise and they know it. If a candidate got up there and said: I have read the Constitution and I don't believe we should be funding about 90% of what we do because it's not in there... no one would vote for them. If your Senatorial candidate said; "I won't be bringing the bacon home for you because I don't agree with that on principle!" They would be defeated in a landslide, and honestly, they probably deserve to be because regardless of whether they stand on their principles or not the money will still be spent, someone else will get that bacon. So this is all a very deep-seated problem that we can't really deal with because that's the nature of the beast.

I hear ya, but the fight for small Government is over. That ship has sailed. It's too far gone now. I don't even bother engaging in the debate anymore. The Neocons and Communists/Progressives run the show. And they're not gonna relinquish any power & control.

So with much sadness, i have to tell the small Government Libertarian/Conservative warriors to give it up. It's not even a losing battle, it's a battle that no longer even exists. There is no going back. Everyone's got their hand out. So now, Americans just have to try and figure out how they as individuals can get theirs. Because that's what it's all about now. It is what it is.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Both major parties are progressive indeed.

 

[paulitician]

Both major parties are progressive indeed.

Yeah, i've finally come to the point where i no longer engage in the Big Government vs. Small Government debate. That day has passed. Big Government is only growing bigger. Both Neocons and Communists/Progressives want it. So now it's just a matter of Americans trying to get theirs in this Big Government mess.

The debate over whether we should be Big Government or Small Government is dead. We're gonna be Big Government. Now we'll just squabble over the scraps. Who will be the beneficiaries of the massive spending? That's all the battle is now. It's very sad, but i tell my Libertarian/Conservative warrior friends, to give it up. They lost. It's over.

 

[Boss]

Conservative votes stayed at home.

That lie has already been debunked in this very thread. Parroting it again does not make it any less a lie. A greater percentage of CON$ervoFascists voted for Bishop Willard and McSame than for either Reagan election.

The first number is the total number of conservatives who voted for the Republican candidate. The second is the conservatives' percentage of the total vote. In 2012, 37 million conservatives voted for Mitt Romney, and conservatives were 35% of the total who voted.

2012 37mm, 35%
2008 34.8mm, 34%
2004 34.9mm, 34%
2000 24.8mm, 29%
1996 23.6mm, 34%
1992 20mm, 30%
1988 24.5mm, 33%
1984 25.1mm, 33%
1980 17.7mm, 28%

But your stats are incorrect because you're counting people on the basis of how they self identify and we know that isn't accurate. You honestly believe that less than half the votes George W. Bush received in 2000 were from conservatives? Smoke a lot of crack in the mornings, do ya?

All this statistic shows is how popular or unpopular it was to call yourself a conservative at the time. In means absolutely nothing in terms of who voted. Stats such as these completely dismiss ALL moderates and independents as "not conservative" votes. The truth is, MOST of the independent and moderate votes are conservatives. They may not be comfortable self identifying as such, but they are philosophically conservative.

The lie is "The truth is, MOST of the independent and moderate votes are conservatives." The low intellect far right reactionary is asserting as fact the data does not support. So, let him try, and I will gut the data he provides.

Ah... So now I am a "low intellect far right reactionary" in your book? We see the tactic here... you never made the case that I was "far right" or "reactionary" and now you've added "low intellect" because I challenged you. This is really ALL you have, baseless rhetoric and false claims, which you've apparently convinced yourself are true or you think it can be made true by constantly repeating it as if you've established it as factual.

The Gallup poll posted by Skylar, your Liberal buddy, shows that 33% of Independent voters identified as conservative and 24% identified as liberal. Pew Research did a survey several years ago which encompassed a collection of polls on various left/right issues and found that 60.8% of us are right-leaning or conservative. This included the "mushy middle" and proves that most "moderates" are indeed conservative thinkers.

Again... Conservatism, by its very definition is the antithesis of Extremism. It does not take a mental giant to comprehend this. There is simply nothing "Extreme" about a Conservative philosophy, but that is precisely how the left defines anyone who isn't a Liberal... or what THEY call a "moderate" which is basically a non-conservative who isn't full-blown Liberal.

There are two great errors in perception happening. One is that Conservatives are extreme or "far right" in their philosophy, and the other is that moderates aren't basically conservative in their thinking. Both perceptions are inherently flawed and vulnerable to exposure, which I hope to have accomplished here.

The GOP cannot "win" the moderate vote by being LESS Conservative. The 'Left Moderates' are always going to vote left and the 'Right Moderates' are going to stay home unless a genuine Conservative message is being presented. By running AWAY from Conservatism, the GOP is actually alienating a large percentage of "Moderates" they would otherwise get. Moderates just do not vote for Republican Ideologues... that doesn't happen!

 

[Boss]

Both major parties are progressive indeed.

Yeah, i've finally come to the point where i no longer engage in the Big Government vs. Small Government debate. That day has passed. Big Government is only growing bigger. Both Neocons and Communists/Progressives want it. So now it's just a matter of Americans trying to get theirs in this Big Government mess.

The debate over whether we should be Big Government or Small Government is dead. We're gonna be Big Government. Now we'll just squabble over the scraps. Who will be the beneficiaries of the massive spending? That's all the battle is now. It's very sad, but i tell my Libertarian/Conservative warrior friends, to give it up. They lost. It's over.

Okay, I accept your viewpoint.... now what? How long do you think we can go down this road of never-ending self-gratification without consequence? How much baseless currency can we print and how long will our economy survive if we continue writing checks we can't cash? Borrowing trillions from our enemies and such? Ten years? Twenty? Then what happens?

You see... at SOME POINT, we have to face reality. It's fine to give up and join in the freebie handout free-for-all, but eventually that party is over. Economies and indeed, civilizations, do not ask you how you feel about it before they collapse. Once it has all gone tits up is a really bad time to get smart and wise up, don't you agree?

 

[bendog]

Both major parties are progressive indeed.

Yeah, i've finally come to the point where i no longer engage in the Big Government vs. Small Government debate. That day has passed. Big Government is only growing bigger. Both Neocons and Communists/Progressives want it. So now it's just a matter of Americans trying to get theirs in this Big Government mess.

The debate over whether we should be Big Government or Small Government is dead. We're gonna be Big Government. Now we'll just squabble over the scraps. Who will be the beneficiaries of the massive spending? That's all the battle is now. It's very sad, but i tell my Libertarian/Conservative warrior friends, to give it up. They lost. It's over.

Okay, I accept your viewpoint.... now what? How long do you think we can go down this road of never-ending self-gratification without consequence? How much baseless currency can we print and how long will our economy survive if we continue writing checks we can't cash? Borrowing trillions from our enemies and such? Ten years? Twenty? Then what happens?

You see... at SOME POINT, we have to face reality. It's fine to give up and join in the freebie handout free-for-all, but eventually that party is over. Economies and indeed, civilizations, do not ask you how you feel about it before they collapse. Once it has all gone tits up is a really bad time to get smart and wise up, don't you agree?

Well the reality is we can't balance the budget and keep soc. sec medicare and Medicaid, without some new revenues from somewhere, no matter whether we do cost containment by altering the retirement age, covered services and copays and changing Obamacare's Medicaid expansion. But, to face that reality for a gop candidate is to have every superpac out there gunning for him.

 

[paulitician]

Both major parties are progressive indeed.

Yeah, i've finally come to the point where i no longer engage in the Big Government vs. Small Government debate. That day has passed. Big Government is only growing bigger. Both Neocons and Communists/Progressives want it. So now it's just a matter of Americans trying to get theirs in this Big Government mess.

The debate over whether we should be Big Government or Small Government is dead. We're gonna be Big Government. Now we'll just squabble over the scraps. Who will be the beneficiaries of the massive spending? That's all the battle is now. It's very sad, but i tell my Libertarian/Conservative warrior friends, to give it up. They lost. It's over.

Okay, I accept your viewpoint.... now what? How long do you think we can go down this road of never-ending self-gratification without consequence? How much baseless currency can we print and how long will our economy survive if we continue writing checks we can't cash? Borrowing trillions from our enemies and such? Ten years? Twenty? Then what happens?

You see... at SOME POINT, we have to face reality. It's fine to give up and join in the freebie handout free-for-all, but eventually that party is over. Economies and indeed, civilizations, do not ask you how you feel about it before they collapse. Once it has all gone tits up is a really bad time to get smart and wise up, don't you agree?

Nothing will change. Too many are dependent on Big Brother. And both Parties enjoy the power & control. So it's pointless debating Big Government vs. Small Government. I truly do respect people like Ron Paul. He's a Libertarian/Conservative warrior. But it's over. Big Government is here to stay.

The only fight now is over who will benefit the most from the massive spending. Everyone wants a piece. And they all expect that piece. The bitter squabbles will be over who and what gets the cash. So i'm no longer gonna engage in the Big Government vs. Small Government debate. It really is pointless. We are and always will be Big Government. It is what it is.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Indeed, Boss is a "low intellect far right reactionary" in my book.

I called you that because you can't back up your arguments with clear data.

Skylar's poll is not quite accurate, but the "60.8%" that indicates right-leaning or conservative contradicts with your solid statement earlier that conservatives make up 60% of the country. So misstatement on your part. No, being right leaning does not mean "'moderate' are indeed conservative thinkers."

Your definition of Conservatism includes your far right reactionary ideology, which is indeed Extremism.

"THEY call a "moderate" which is basically a non-conservative who isn't full-blown Liberal" is the second stupidest statement of the day. That is your opinion, nothing more.

Many Conservatives are not extreme or far right. You, Boss, are, however. And then you try to include them in your group. That is a fail.

The GOP will win the presidency by reaching out to women and minorities where they are. The moderates and centrists are not going to convert to your silly ideology.

Five of the last six elections have proved that, and now the Millennials are voting as a full group for the very first time. The numbers are bad for the right and very bad for you on the far right. They will not as a voting block choose for "more conservative" candidates. Won't happen.

You have to change, not the electorate.

The truth is that most of the electorate is nothing like you and does not want to be.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Though good to know that you support the political equivalent of white trash, and hate the very free market system that brought the UK back from the brink.

It's even better to know that you have not one ounce of proof to suggest Cecilie supports any of those things. What is it with liberals and their penchant for inference?

"If you don't agree with me, you support this,that or the other thing, even though I can't prove it."

 

[TemplarKormac]

To pull a Bossy here, by that YOU MEAN you can't dispute the numbers.

Yet, you didn't post where you got those numbers from. Paul Krugman? And since when does he qualify as a valid source? Can you confirm those numbers with something other than his website?

Edwin's sources are most often liberal blog sites where they have manipulated and massaged the raw data to derive the results they need to make their invalid points.

Hey pinhead, the stats came from the CBO.
Don't you ever get tired of lying?

The same CBO that told us obamacare would cost less then 900 billion dollars??????? LMAO

The same CBO the Right habitually cites.

Yet, you didn't provide the CBO reports confirming your "numbers."

However, what Krugman leaves out is that Reagan signed the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was aslo supported and sponsored by Democrats. It was a tax cut for the individual earner, not a tax increase. The law made it clear that capital gains would be taxed at the same rate as regular income, meaning he raised taxes on the rich, and that tax shelters for the rich would be eliminated. It slashed the individual income tax rate from 50% to 28%, leaving the richest 1% paying slightly higher than the rest. It did not add to the deficit.

The 1986 law also took 6 million poor families off of the income tax rolls, meaning their income was no longer going to be taxed. That is a tax cut, or a virtual elimination of the tax burden on the poor. Reagan had more in common with the ordinary citizen than the insanely wealthy, which is why he was elected in the first place.

Your "numbers" are lies, and Paul Krugman is a professional liar and a hack economist.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

There's no such thing as a 'Far-Right'.

One either Recognizes, Respects, Defends and Adheres to the Principles that define America, or one does not and since there's no such thing as "REALLY Recognizing, Respecting, Defending, and Adhering to American Principles, well... you know.

The thing to understand however is that where one runs a campaign resting upon those principles... one wins. And that is because those principles speak to the human soul.

And what exactly are American principles as set forth by those who wrote our Constitution? Oh yes, slavery is fine.

Not in the Constitution.

Blacks and women cannot vote.

Also not in the Constitution.

In fact, only land owners can vote.

Not in the Constitution.

Hell, women could only own land under certain special circumstances.

Not in the Constitution.

I'm a bit tired of right wing nutters assuming their version of America is the only one that is legitimate.

Back atcha. I'm tired of leftist lunatics assuming their idiocy is the pinnacle of moral righteousness. And the more immoral it is, the more impressed you are with it.

LOL!

My Lord... whatta BEAT DOWN! Nice work Cecilie.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

To me the 'far right' on the flawed left-right spectrum is extreme nationalist/religious/anti-immigration groups like the KKK, Neo Nazis, Westboro, and parties like UKIP.

Wow, we didn't care.

Correct term is 'I' fruit loop.

Though good to know that you support the political equivalent of white trash, and hate the very free market system that brought the UK back from the brink.

Good to see hoe ignorant you are of your own ideology.... Democrats made the KKK and socialists are Nazi.... I am sure you wont let small things like the truth to stop your delusions of grandeur.

Thank God he gave me a brain more complex then a sheep otherwise I would be a progressive.

You calling others clueless. *yawn*

For starters, there is no such thing in real life as a 'left' vs 'right' scale, as it is inaccurate. Something I alluded to earlier, when I called it a 'flawed spectrum'. The only accurate scale is based on collectivism, individualism and the level of authoritarianism.

You claim that Democrats were once tied to the KKK, as if that means anything, which it doesn't as Democrats are not today. Unless you are claiming that the Democrats are still a religiously and socially conservative party according to the standards of that time - and further that they support secession.

Thirdly, Nazis aren't strictly socialist, any more than state capitalists are free marketers. Nazis ran the economy along a State Capitalist model, with a fusion of state and corporate entities. Additionally there were no unions, and true 'socialist' groups were rounded up and killed.

If you believe your own hogwash, then God in foresight didn't give you much of brain, given what you planned to fill it with.

ROFLMNAO!

Yes... I never seem to tire of watching the Left try to separate itself from its own history.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hey pinhead, the stats came from the CBO.

Hey pinhead, presidents serve more than one year. In 1981, Reagan passed his first tax cut. The Kemp-Roth Tax Cut of 1981, which also reduced tax rates on the individual income earner. It dropped the individual income tax from 75% to 50%, and lowered the income tax rate for the lower income tax bracket to 5.7%.

Once again, you are a liar.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Conservative votes stayed at home.

That lie has already been debunked in this very thread. Parroting it again does not make it any less a lie. A greater percentage of CON$ervoFascists voted for Bishop Willard and McSame than for either Reagan election.

The first number is the total number of conservatives who voted for the Republican candidate. The second is the conservatives' percentage of the total vote. In 2012, 37 million conservatives voted for Mitt Romney, and conservatives were 35% of the total who voted.

2012 37mm, 35%
2008 34.8mm, 34%
2004 34.9mm, 34%
2000 24.8mm, 29%
1996 23.6mm, 34%
1992 20mm, 30%
1988 24.5mm, 33%
1984 25.1mm, 33%
1980 17.7mm, 28%

But your stats are incorrect because you're counting people on the basis of how they self identify and we know that isn't accurate.

BULLSHIT!
YOU know nothing of the sort!

Irrespective of how many "moderates" are too stupid to know they are moderates, according to you, there were more voters who were not ashamed to call themselves CON$ervatives who voted for McCain and Romney than voted for Reagan .

You have any exit polls from 2008 or 2012 reflecting that claim?

 

[Greenbeard]

Paul Krugman is a certifiable lunatic

To pull a Bossy here, by that YOU MEAN you can't dispute the numbers.

Yet, you didn't post where you got those numbers from. Paul Krugman? And since when does he qualify as a valid source? Can you confirm those numbers with something other than his website?

Edwin's sources are most often liberal blog sites where they have manipulated and massaged the raw data to derive the results they need to make their invalid points.

Hey pinhead, the stats came from the CBO.
Don't you ever get tired of lying?

The same CBO that told us obamacare would cost less then 900 billion dollars??????? LMAO

Yeah, that CBO price tag was wrong. Turns out it was way too high.

Future Obamacare Costs Keep Falling | Wall Street Journal

Overall, the health-care law will now cost 29% less for the 2015-19 period than was first forecast by the CBO when the law was signed in March 2010. Back then, the CBO and the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that for the last five years of their 10-year projection, Obamacare would cost $710 billion. Now, they expect it will cost $506 billion for the same period.

 

[TemplarKormac]

To pull a Bossy here, by that YOU MEAN you can't dispute the numbers.

Yet, you didn't post where you got those numbers from. Paul Krugman? And since when does he qualify as a valid source? Can you confirm those numbers with something other than his website?

Edwin's sources are most often liberal blog sites where they have manipulated and massaged the raw data to derive the results they need to make their invalid points.

Hey pinhead, the stats came from the CBO.
Don't you ever get tired of lying?

The same CBO that told us obamacare would cost less then 900 billion dollars??????? LMAO

Yeah, that CBO price tag was wrong. Turns out it was way too high.

Future Obamacare Costs Keep Falling | Wall Street Journal

Overall, the health-care law will now cost 29% less for the 2015-19 period than was first forecast by the CBO when the law was signed in March 2010. Back then, the CBO and the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that for the last five years of their 10-year projection, Obamacare would cost $710 billion. Now, they expect it will cost $506 billion for the same period.

Truth is, they don't know how much it will cost.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Offer better estimates, then, guys, or stand there with egg on your faces.

 

[JakeStarkey]

TK was never good with full research.

I bet he failed his shepardizing class. No, boss, it has nothing to do with sheep.

In truth, the costs appear to be lower, and TK's train wreck of arguments are all over the track.

 

[hipeter924]

Though good to know that you support the political equivalent of white trash, and hate the very free market system that brought the UK back from the brink.

It's even better to know that you have not one ounce of proof to suggest Cecilie supports any of those things. What is it with liberals and their penchant for inference?

"If you don't agree with me, you support this,that or the other thing, even though I can't prove it."

Your problem, not mine, which started when you called me a 'liberal', without evidence - the exact thing you accused me of doing.

Cecilie
a) Disagreed that the KKK, Neo Nazis,etc (or x) are far right.
b) Made a 'I don't care what you think' reply.
c) Made an issue out my post pointing out that the right vs left is a flawed spectrum to analyze politics.

So, yes, there is proof Cecilie supports x through Cecilie's statements, unless Cecilie states he/she doesn't support x.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, the KKK and Neo-Nazis are far right conservatives.