Fascism

[Coyote]

The question was whether he was against socialism, not whether he'd killed a socialist. ...

Yes, because everyone knows socialists murder socialists and RWNJs murder RWNJs. /sarcasm

...It's interesting that you call "Divine.Wind" most people call "noxious intestinal gas." To each his own

Awesome insult for a person with a GED.

Yep, socialists murder socialist all the time. Stalin murdered millions of socialists.

Remind me...did Stalin specifically oppose socialism or communism? Hitler did. Killed them, and denounced socialism in entirety.

All you've come up so far is that Hitler killed socialists who were against him. Now you're repeating that he "denounced socialism," the claim you couldn't back up last time I asked

Note the pattern Coyote of your ignoring the question I actually asked you

?

I backed it up in the posts following your question. If you disagreed with my answer, that is not my problem.

 

[Iceweasel]

It's perfectly valid because there are some common attributes to left and right that cross all countries. The key to validity is to view it on two axis. For example the right is pro-authority (police, military); pro-militerary, nationalistic, pro-traditional cultural norms and pro-traditional religions.

That's true but it all depends on what kind of authority, military, police, religion, etc. you have so to compare the right wing in Nazi Germany to the right wing here and now is misleading or ignorant. I'm not saying that's what you do but it's what the left typically does.

 

[kaz]

You love to hurl insults but don't expect them back...

Incorrect, but I can see why you want to believe this. How else can you justify constantly posting ad hominems?

Not sure why you are so vested in believing unfettered capitalism never existed, but obviously you won't be dissuaded regardless of facts or links presented.

I think the Nazi party beat them to it. You seem to know their party better than they did.

Nazis have always been seen as RWers until the last decade or so. People over 50 know this to be true. As several have posted on this and similar threads, a more accurate viewpoint is that fascism was highly authoritarian with some elements of socialism, but definitely leaning right. Why the far Right seeks to label fascists as far Lefties is interesting even though it is wrong.

That chart is wrong........nazism is socialism.....it is left wing. How does libertarianism...and American Conservatism, with the belief in limited government and individual rights even come close to nazism? and you are saying they lie on the same side of the line.........

The left wing will jump through whatever hoops they have to....contort through whatever yoga postures they have to...to hide the fact that the mass murder of 100 million innocent men, women and children starting about 1917....the modern period.....were all done by different styles of socialism........

That is why they have to lie all the time.....

Because it's not a simple linear graph - you have the added dimension of Authoritarian vs Libertarian.

I agree the chart is flawed. I'm not clear what "Right versus Left" means. Right and left can be fiscal, social or military. The chart doesn't define what they mean by right and left

I don't think the chart is flawed - though there might be bias in where ideologies are placed. One access is economic the other social.

So explain what "right" and "left" mean and how you know it.

I'm right fiscally

I'm left socially

I'm neither militarily as both rightists and leftists are big builders and users of the military

Above it says I'm "libertarian" and "right." It also has fascists, who are big government as right. Explain it so it makes sense

 

[westwall]

So when Hitler killed a socialist who was speaking against him, you actually believe the issue was that he was a socialist, not that he was speaking against him. Go ahead, say it, say that's what you believe. That would be stupid that's funny...

The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.

I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?

I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.

No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.

 

[Coyote]

So when Hitler killed a socialist who was speaking against him, you actually believe the issue was that he was a socialist, not that he was speaking against him. Go ahead, say it, say that's what you believe. That would be stupid that's funny...

The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.

I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?

I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.

No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.

I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing

 

[kaz]

Yes, because everyone knows socialists murder socialists and RWNJs murder RWNJs. /sarcasm

Awesome insult for a person with a GED.

Yep, socialists murder socialist all the time. Stalin murdered millions of socialists.

Remind me...did Stalin specifically oppose socialism or communism? Hitler did. Killed them, and denounced socialism in entirety.

All you've come up so far is that Hitler killed socialists who were against him. Now you're repeating that he "denounced socialism," the claim you couldn't back up last time I asked

Note the pattern Coyote of your ignoring the question I actually asked you

?

I backed it up in the posts following your question. If you disagreed with my answer, that is not my problem.

Bullshit, you never answered once my question, which is where Hitler was against SOCIALISM You keep arguing he killed socialists. You seriously don't understand the difference?

Explain how the blacks in Chicago who kill blacks aren't black. That he kills socialists doesn't prove shit.

And you keep ignoring my question to name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia completely

 

[Coyote]

Yep, socialists murder socialist all the time. Stalin murdered millions of socialists.

Remind me...did Stalin specifically oppose socialism or communism? Hitler did. Killed them, and denounced socialism in entirety.

All you've come up so far is that Hitler killed socialists who were against him. Now you're repeating that he "denounced socialism," the claim you couldn't back up last time I asked

Note the pattern Coyote of your ignoring the question I actually asked you

?

I backed it up in the posts following your question. If you disagreed with my answer, that is not my problem.

Bullshit, you never answered once my question, which is where Hitler was against SOCIALISM You keep arguing he killed socialists. You seriously don't understand the difference?

Explain how the blacks in Chicago who kill blacks aren't black. That he kills socialists doesn't prove shit.

And you keep ignoring my question to name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia completely

Bullshit is right. I brought up multiple points.

 

[kaz]

So when Hitler killed a socialist who was speaking against him, you actually believe the issue was that he was a socialist, not that he was speaking against him. Go ahead, say it, say that's what you believe. That would be stupid that's funny...

The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.

I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?

I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.

No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.

I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing

What fascists did that?

 

[kaz]

Remind me...did Stalin specifically oppose socialism or communism? Hitler did. Killed them, and denounced socialism in entirety.

All you've come up so far is that Hitler killed socialists who were against him. Now you're repeating that he "denounced socialism," the claim you couldn't back up last time I asked

Note the pattern Coyote of your ignoring the question I actually asked you

?

I backed it up in the posts following your question. If you disagreed with my answer, that is not my problem.

Bullshit, you never answered once my question, which is where Hitler was against SOCIALISM You keep arguing he killed socialists. You seriously don't understand the difference?

Explain how the blacks in Chicago who kill blacks aren't black. That he kills socialists doesn't prove shit.

And you keep ignoring my question to name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia completely

Bullshit is right. I brought up multiple points.

You repeatedly presented quotes that didn't say what you said they said and then kept repeating that you provided it as if you had.

I've asked you this at least 20 times and you ran away every time, "name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia."

If you actually answered it, man up to a post #

 

[Wry Catcher]

You love to hurl insults but don't expect them back...

Incorrect, but I can see why you want to believe this. How else can you justify constantly posting ad hominems?

Not sure why you are so vested in believing unfettered capitalism never existed, but obviously you won't be dissuaded regardless of facts or links presented.

I think the Nazi party beat them to it. You seem to know their party better than they did.

Nazis have always been seen as RWers until the last decade or so. People over 50 know this to be true. As several have posted on this and similar threads, a more accurate viewpoint is that fascism was highly authoritarian with some elements of socialism, but definitely leaning right. Why the far Right seeks to label fascists as far Lefties is interesting even though it is wrong.

I've always seen Nazi's and Fascists stuck in the extreme rightwing category and Stalinists in the left. But some political theorists consider Hitler and Stalin to be their own category since they employed a mix of left and right ideologies.

Begging the question. For like the 20th time, explain the difference between "right wing" fascism and left wing socialism with any MEANINGFUL difference.

Hint, I'm not looking for that business is free in fascism as long as they obey Hitler so he doesn't kill and replace them. That isn't free business

The Right Wing supports the elites, think Monarchy
The Left Wing supports the hoi polloi, think democracy

It's really that simple.

Both wings can become radicalized, the RW reactionary and resistant to change, the LW revolutionary and seeking immediate change.

 

[Iceweasel]

The Right Wing supports the elites, think Monarchy
The Left Wing supports the hoi polloi, think democracy

It's really that simple.

Both wings can become radicalized, the RW reactionary and resistant to change, the LW revolutionary and seeking immediate change.

What leftists have in common is big government. Name a leftist country that doesn't. Democracy is two lions and a lamb deciding on dinner. That's why freedom loving countries are into republics.

The right wing here damn sure doesn't support the elites. This election should have served as an education but apparently you are beyond it.

 

[Coyote]

And you keep ignoring my question to name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia completely

I'm not ignoring any questions, but this is a fast moving thread.

Differences:
Hitler was a fascist. Hitler's primary motivation was to create a pan-German state across Europe, based on race. Nazism was a racial more than political, ideology. Like Stalin, he too sought to modernize Germany. While Hitler did kill his political enemies, he primarily focused on purging Jews, and other "defective" racial or ethnic types as well as communists. Despite state regulation of industry, it was not state owned and he did not practice collectivisation of private property and farmland. Hitler did not seek to abolish the class system, but regarded as part of the natural order of things. Hitler's prime means of motivating support was through his racial ideology and elevation of the German people. In line with fascist ideology - Hitler view on women was very traditional (kitchen, children, church) and women were not allowsed to work. Hitler also supported religion in Germany.

Stalin was a communist. Stalin's primary motivation was to modernize the Soviet Union. Stalin sought complete nationalization and communalization of his state and that was consistent throughout his rule. He turned the nation's agriculture into huge nationalized collective farms as well as rapidly industrialized the nation, de-privatizing all it's industries and property ( to show the west the "superiority" of the communist system). Millions of peasants were dispossessed. In terms of economy - Stalin used command economy solely while Hitler was partly market economy. He "pacified" ethnic minorities by diluting them, transplanting ethnic Russians into those regions and transferring ethnic minorities to Siberia. Stalin is most known for his paranoid purges of people he considered "anti-communists" and political enemies that he believed were trying to undermine him. Unlike Hitler, Stalin did not preach racial or national intolerance. Stalin's prime means of motivating support was through arbitrary terror (purges, citizen informant programs, etc). Stalin's view on women was communist, that they were equal to men. Women could work and did. Stalin forbade religion.

Similarities:
Both were harsh dictators.
Both sprang out of the post-WW1 economic depression
Both exerted a measure of control over the country's means of production.
Both sought to militarize their countries and glorified the military.
Both were gifted in the use of propoganda.
Both wanted to industrialize their countries.
Both were responsible for huge losses of life.

 

[Coyote]

So when Hitler killed a socialist who was speaking against him, you actually believe the issue was that he was a socialist, not that he was speaking against him. Go ahead, say it, say that's what you believe. That would be stupid that's funny...

The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.

I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?

I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.

No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.

I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing

What fascists did that?

Mussolini
"Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the " right ", a Fascist century."

If you ever wonder if Fascism is rightwing or not - you can read it for yourself in Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism. Statism in and of itself does not make the ideology leftwing.

 

[westwall]

So when Hitler killed a socialist who was speaking against him, you actually believe the issue was that he was a socialist, not that he was speaking against him. Go ahead, say it, say that's what you believe. That would be stupid that's funny...

The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.

I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?

I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.

No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.

I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing

Except for that "socialism" part in the very name of their Party. Just sayin....

 

[Uncensored2008]

[

You didn't vote, and you replied with an opinion not affirmed by evidence.

You voted for Hillary 9 times, and started a thread driven by butthurt.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[



No. I don't thiink Trump is a Nazi. Not even close.

I do think he's a thin skinned lying arrogant ass though.

You think Trump is Obama?

 

[Coyote]

All you've come up so far is that Hitler killed socialists who were against him. Now you're repeating that he "denounced socialism," the claim you couldn't back up last time I asked

Note the pattern Coyote of your ignoring the question I actually asked you

?

I backed it up in the posts following your question. If you disagreed with my answer, that is not my problem.

Bullshit, you never answered once my question, which is where Hitler was against SOCIALISM You keep arguing he killed socialists. You seriously don't understand the difference?

Explain how the blacks in Chicago who kill blacks aren't black. That he kills socialists doesn't prove shit.

And you keep ignoring my question to name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia completely

Bullshit is right. I brought up multiple points.

You repeatedly presented quotes that didn't say what you said they said and then kept repeating that you provided it as if you had.

I've asked you this at least 20 times and you ran away every time, "name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia."

If you actually answered it, man up to a post #

Post #451, 505, 738, for a start. I'm not going to look any further but multiple times I outlined the differences. Just because YOU don't think they are differences doesn't mean I haven't answered your question. But, just to make it absolutely clear - I have now posted yet another post.

 

[bripat9643]

You love to hurl insults but don't expect them back...

Incorrect, but I can see why you want to believe this. How else can you justify constantly posting ad hominems?

Not sure why you are so vested in believing unfettered capitalism never existed, but obviously you won't be dissuaded regardless of facts or links presented.

I think the Nazi party beat them to it. You seem to know their party better than they did.

Nazis have always been seen as RWers until the last decade or so. People over 50 know this to be true. As several have posted on this and similar threads, a more accurate viewpoint is that fascism was highly authoritarian with some elements of socialism, but definitely leaning right. Why the far Right seeks to label fascists as far Lefties is interesting even though it is wrong.

I've always seen Nazi's and Fascists stuck in the extreme rightwing category and Stalinists in the left. But some political theorists consider Hitler and Stalin to be their own category since they employed a mix of left and right ideologies.

Begging the question. For like the 20th time, explain the difference between "right wing" fascism and left wing socialism with any MEANINGFUL difference.

Hint, I'm not looking for that business is free in fascism as long as they obey Hitler so he doesn't kill and replace them. That isn't free business

The Right Wing supports the elites, think Monarchy
The Left Wing supports the hoi polloi, think democracy

It's really that simple.

Both wings can become radicalized, the RW reactionary and resistant to change, the LW revolutionary and seeking immediate change.

So HIllary and George Soros are not elites?

What left wingers claim to believe in is mostly bullshit.

 

[danielpalos]

Harding, Coolidge and Hoover all tried, but failed to even offer hope for what they had done.
"Prosperity is just around the corner," didn't do it, but it was the best Republicans could come up with.

just plain, laziness of laissez-fair? socialism requires a work ethic.

Socialism stifles a work ethic. Take a look at every socialist country out there. They universally produce less than a capitalist country of smaller size.

Having worked in the Netherlands nine months recently from June, 2015 to March 2016, that's for damned sure. People started coming in at 9am and by 5pm they were standing in my office pointing at their watches that it's time to leave and lock the building. That is if they were still there. Several times at 5 pm I discovered I was alone in a locked building with the alarm set. Someone got called at home to come back and let me out. Seriously.

Not once did we have meetings in the evening or God forbid on a weekend. And I was there because they were losing money and their jobs were at risk from their American parent who hired me. They didn't care. They just assumed if they went under it was their government's job to be sure they got paid one way or another anyway.

They are llaaazzzzyyyy. It's pathetic

You may be missing the point about the difference between socialism and capitalism; under socialism, the best things in life are free. under capitalism you get what you can afford.

Boy are you devoid of reality. Under socialism you get what the government is inclined to give you. If the government is poorly run (as is the case with most socialist countries) there is little wealth to spread around so the elite keep it for themselves. Venezuela is an excellent example of this, when they allowed oil companies to run the oil fields they had wealth. Then chavez nationalized everything and the country collapsed. Now, they don't have even the basics. Food is running out and they will have yet another revolution again. A "socialist paradise" for sure...

Just lousy management. In the US, we have the concept of natural rights.

 

[regent]

After America spent all those lives and money fighting fascism and now so many Americans don't even know what fascism might be, and worse, try to make it into a political philosophy that aids their political party.