Federal Government: Are We Getting Our Money's Worth?

[auditor0007]

Yes and no. Some parts of our federal government are operating quite efficiently while others are not. I would make the case that while there is some lack of efficiency, we have a problem with the allocation of funds. We are spending money, in many cases, on the wrong things. A prime example of this would be homeland security and the defense budget. Personally, I believe we are spending too much on defense. Another example would be the Department of Education; I don't believe we are getting a good return at all on the money spent. That is not to say that everything the Dept of Ed does is unnecessary, but most of it we could do without. At the same time, I believe we are not spending enough money on infrastructure as well as scientific research and research into new technologies. Much of this type of research is done through our universities, but funding is being greatly reduced and many of these programs will be put to rest. Despite what many on the right believe, that only private industry can lead to new developments, the fact is that so many medical breakthroughs happen because of this type of research.

So the bottom line to me is that it's not so much about how much we are spending and what we are getting in return as it is where we are spending it.

 

[kaz]

Some of us just can not grasp the fact we're broke. And still petition the government who is currently doing a very poor job at its assigned tasks, to take on more tasks.

It's a very interesting "concept".

We have the most powerful economy on earth

We are not broke....not even close

Still plenty more for you to plunder...

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I agree. If we did not tolerate incompetence, waste, corruption, ineffectiveness from our government, it would not exist.

So why do we?

It is so easy, and apparently so comfortable, to point blame at somebody else. Everybody believes their own political party would do it right if the other didn't maliciously screw everything up. But when our own political party is in power in the White House and both houses of Congress, even with veto and filibuster proof majorities, nothing much gets fixed.

So is the problem we the people? Are are we helpless against a too powerful government that will frighten and manipulate and bribe us into submission so that it can take what it wants and do what it wants?

Americans could take back our country in a day. We still have the laws of the land on our side (but for who knows how much longer)
Unfortunately friend, it is highly unlikely Americans will wake up and stop the useless party bickering to make a change before it is too late. We have already lost in many ways, and getting worse every passing year as more and more laws and policies are passed that removes our freedoms and/or favors corporations and Wall Street o our detriment.
Our government is wholly corrupt on both sides. It will take a MASSIVE and COLLECTIVE movement to reverse what has already been done and our society is in no way one that will come together long enough to do such a thing.

Yes, we have a government that is so corrupt that the strictly honest can no longer function effectively within it. The starry eyed idealistd who go triumphantly as Mr. Smith's to Washington to serve and make a diffrence quickly learn that you play ball with the old boys or you aren't assigned to any meaningful committees, you don't get face time at the microphones or on the floor of the house and senate. You will be marginalized and kept in the shadows until you shape up.

And each time they compromise a conviction they hold, there is less and less will to resist more compromise, until they become as corrupt as those they intended to reform. The ability to use the people's money to increase their own power, prestige, influence, and pesonal wealth becomes all too comfortable and important to do.

It is why changing just some of the people won't make a difference because it is a bad system we put them into. We must change the system itself.

And, as you may be suggesting here, I again believe this is the last generation with any chance to do so. It does require teaching each other and having the will and stamina to make it happen.

Indeed.
One major hurdle is that only people at least 45 or older remember what America was before 1990. Remembers all of the local businesses that use to be where they live, All of the large and small manufacturers scattered everywhere that are nw long gone. People 40 and under don't really think of anything that every town is the same. All the same stores, same restaruants etc. etc. They think nothing about how everything is made in China or India, because that is how it has always been to them.
And then there is politics, the current generation is amazingly disconnected from important issues. They are wonderfully distracted by snapchat, facebook, American Idol and YouTube. They do not watch the news, they do not subscribe to a newspaper - yet gladly fork over $100 plus a month so they can play with their smartphones.
In the words of Dr. Benjamin carson - "Corruption can only exist if ignorance or wide-spread complacancy is present".

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes and no. Some parts of our federal government are operating quite efficiently while others are not. I would make the case that while there is some lack of efficiency, we have a problem with the allocation of funds. We are spending money, in many cases, on the wrong things. A prime example of this would be homeland security and the defense budget. Personally, I believe we are spending too much on defense. Another example would be the Department of Education; I don't believe we are getting a good return at all on the money spent. That is not to say that everything the Dept of Ed does is unnecessary, but most of it we could do without. At the same time, I believe we are not spending enough money on infrastructure as well as scientific research and research into new technologies. Much of this type of research is done through our universities, but funding is being greatly reduced and many of these programs will be put to rest. Despite what many on the right believe, that only private industry can lead to new developments, the fact is that so many medical breakthroughs happen because of this type of research.

So the bottom line to me is that it's not so much about how much we are spending and what we are getting in return as it is where we are spending it.

Sometime this year we will pass the $17 trillion mark on the National Debt Clock. How big does that number have to get before we will be spending too much?

But I agree that what we spend money on are the wrong things. The CATO Institute did some exhaustive research on defense spending that culminated in a comprehensive report published in 1999. One of the items to consider is that the federal government spent something like $8 billion in subsidies to help U.S. Defense Contractors earn $12 billion in arms sales to foreign buyers. Prior to that time, the foreign buyers footed all the bill. Is there any chance the taxes collected on the $12 billion offset the $8 billion outlay? We all know the answer to that. No, it did not. But the politicians raked in big bucks from the defense contractors for their next campaign. And that kind of phenomenon and other misuses of taxpayer money continue unabated to this day.
http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa350.pdf

Research grants to seriously study vaccines and cures for such chronic and scary medical conditions as cancer, Juntavirus, plague, West Nile Virus, and other serious conditions might or might not be well spent. Government wastes so much money for every dollar allocated, it could be just as productive leaving the money in the private sector to fund such things.]

The huge lion's share of government funded scientific research is on things the world can probably live quite nicely without. The important stuff finds funding from private sources. But nobody seems to care much do they.

 

[rightwinger]

Some of us just can not grasp the fact we're broke. And still petition the government who is currently doing a very poor job at its assigned tasks, to take on more tasks.

It's a very interesting "concept".

We have the most powerful economy on earth

We are not broke....not even close

Not yet, but do you accept a $17 trillion national debt as satisfactory when in recent years individual wages and net worth has significantly declined?

In the mid 20th Century, I believe the USA would have boasted the top 25 most economically powerful cities in the world. Now we boast four out of 25. We have lost prestige in the world and few nations fear us as an economic power these days.

Natural condition? Or because of government mismanagement?

I don't think we are getting our money's worth.

Does our government make us economically powerful or do our corporations?

I would argue that our CEOs have been more concerned with short term profits at the expense of long term viability

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

 

[Foxfyre]

Americans could take back our country in a day. We still have the laws of the land on our side (but for who knows how much longer)
Unfortunately friend, it is highly unlikely Americans will wake up and stop the useless party bickering to make a change before it is too late. We have already lost in many ways, and getting worse every passing year as more and more laws and policies are passed that removes our freedoms and/or favors corporations and Wall Street o our detriment.
Our government is wholly corrupt on both sides. It will take a MASSIVE and COLLECTIVE movement to reverse what has already been done and our society is in no way one that will come together long enough to do such a thing.

Yes, we have a government that is so corrupt that the strictly honest can no longer function effectively within it. The starry eyed idealistd who go triumphantly as Mr. Smith's to Washington to serve and make a diffrence quickly learn that you play ball with the old boys or you aren't assigned to any meaningful committees, you don't get face time at the microphones or on the floor of the house and senate. You will be marginalized and kept in the shadows until you shape up.

And each time they compromise a conviction they hold, there is less and less will to resist more compromise, until they become as corrupt as those they intended to reform. The ability to use the people's money to increase their own power, prestige, influence, and pesonal wealth becomes all too comfortable and important to do.

It is why changing just some of the people won't make a difference because it is a bad system we put them into. We must change the system itself.

And, as you may be suggesting here, I again believe this is the last generation with any chance to do so. It does require teaching each other and having the will and stamina to make it happen.

Indeed.
One major hurdle is that only people at least 45 or older remember what America was before 1990. Remembers all of the local businesses that use to be where they live, All of the large and small manufacturers scattered everywhere that are nw long gone. People 40 and under don't really think of anything that every town is the same. All the same stores, same restaruants etc. etc. They think nothing about how everything is made in China or India, because that is how it has always been to them.
And then there is politics, the current generation is amazingly disconnected from important issues. They are wonderfully distracted by snapchat, facebook, American Idol and YouTube. They do not watch the news, they do not subscribe to a newspaper - yet gladly fork over $100 plus a month so they can play with their smartphones.
In the words of Dr. Benjamin carson - "Corruption can only exist if ignorance or wide-spread complacancy is present".

Indeed. And add to the lack of experience, the extreme, intentional, and malicious historical revisionism that is common today. Not only does the younger generation have no memory of what it was like before the government veered totally out of control, but they are receiving a very distorted image of what it was like from those who are deliberately steering their perceptions.

How many younger members on USMB have expressed opinions of the racist, sexist, narrow minded, bigoted 'dark ages' of the 1950's? And yet those who lived them know them as a vibrant period of positive advancement, opportunity, and a real national sense that nothing could hold us back from reaching for our dreams. There were far more positives than negatives, and the negatives were no more worse than the muliplied negatives that have replaced them.

It makes it doubly difficult to convince the younger indoctrinated and brainwashed set that there is a much better way to do government than how it is done now. But there is still hope, because I keep running across young-uns with smarts, open minds, and ability to think critically. But they are becoming a dying breed. We are the last generation that will have ability to act.

 

[Foxfyre]

We have the most powerful economy on earth

We are not broke....not even close

Not yet, but do you accept a $17 trillion national debt as satisfactory when in recent years individual wages and net worth has significantly declined?

In the mid 20th Century, I believe the USA would have boasted the top 25 most economically powerful cities in the world. Now we boast four out of 25. We have lost prestige in the world and few nations fear us as an economic power these days.

Natural condition? Or because of government mismanagement?

I don't think we are getting our money's worth.

Does our government make us economically powerful or do our corporations?

I would argue that our CEOs have been more concerned with short term profits at the expense of long term viability

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

I believe if we take ALL government influence out of corporations other than absolutely necessary UNIFORM regulations necessary to prevent unfair competition and violation of rights, the corporations will again be force to impress their investors with their competency rather than their ability to show a short term profit.

There is a cause and effect of everything. Government should not be doing anything that should be done by the private sector. Commerce and industry should be done exclusively by the private sector as no government will ever do that competently.

 

[kaz]

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

So you correctly point out that China, which is becoming more capitalist, is defeating us, who are becoming more socialist.

And you conclude that means we need more socialism.

What a dunce.

 

[rightwinger]

Not yet, but do you accept a $17 trillion national debt as satisfactory when in recent years individual wages and net worth has significantly declined?

In the mid 20th Century, I believe the USA would have boasted the top 25 most economically powerful cities in the world. Now we boast four out of 25. We have lost prestige in the world and few nations fear us as an economic power these days.

Natural condition? Or because of government mismanagement?

I don't think we are getting our money's worth.

Does our government make us economically powerful or do our corporations?

I would argue that our CEOs have been more concerned with short term profits at the expense of long term viability

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

I believe if we take ALL government influence out of corporations other than absolutely necessary UNIFORM regulations necessary to prevent unfair competition and violation of rights, the corporations will again be force to impress their investors with their competency rather than their ability to show a short term profit.

There is a cause and effect of everything. Government should not be doing anything that should be done by the private sector. Commerce and industry should be done exclusively by the private sector as no government will ever do that competently.

I don't think so......greed always gets in the way
As bad as our government is right now, our private sector is much worse

We the people should demand a government that does what makes sense. If our government can do something better than the private sector.....let them

We do not owe the private sector a profit off of government services

 

[rightwinger]

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

So you correctly point out that China, which is becoming more capitalist, is defeating us, who are becoming more socialist.

And you conclude that means we need more socialism.

What a dunce.

You can spin that one any way you want

China is still much more socialist than we are and is out competing us

They even have national healthcare.....imagine that

 

[kaz]

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

So you correctly point out that China, which is becoming more capitalist, is defeating us, who are becoming more socialist.

And you conclude that means we need more socialism.

What a dunce.

You can spin that one any way you want

China is still much more socialist than we are and is out competing us

They even have national healthcare.....imagine that

Your inane arguments always crack me up. You can't even keep track yourself of what you're arguing.

We're the best, there's lots left to plunder, but we're failing, because we're not becoming socialist, but china is capitalist, so they are doing better, but they are more socialist then we are, so...

... where was I again?

Oh yeah, this all proves the Democratic Party is right, vote for them, because they are headed by a black guy, who's not black but he is, because he's an Eisenhower Republican, and he knows that corporations suck.

You're very convincing, RW. I'll be voting for Obama in 16, you can count on it.

 

[Foxfyre]

We are getting clobbered on the world stage as other countries (China) are taking a bigger slice of he pie

So you correctly point out that China, which is becoming more capitalist, is defeating us, who are becoming more socialist.

And you conclude that means we need more socialism.

What a dunce.

You can spin that one any way you want

China is still much more socialist than we are and is out competing us

They even have national healthcare.....imagine that

Yes they do. National healthcare that is in serious trouble, increasingly expensive, and unaffordable for many. (Report: China's Health Care System Deeply Sick - China Real Time Report - WSJ) Even as 15% of Chinese don't have safe drinking water, 45% don't have adequate sewage systems, and the disparity between rich and poor is becoming as pronounced as it is here.

At least one source I've read suggests that as many as 500 million Chinese receive inadequate healthcare because they can't afford the government healthcare. That of course is almost 200 million more people than live in all the USA.

Would it be better to have a private healthcare system in China with the government providing incentives for doctors to locate in rural areas? Probably. Maybe some day we'll find out.

I do know that there were far fewer people who could not afford healthcare on our wholly privatized system--few enough that we could take care of them. And the healthcare system was mostly pretty wonderful. Not so much since the government got involved.

 

[Foxfyre]

The thing is, those who want value for money expended seem to expect more from the private sector than what they demand of government.

When we spend $10 for a steak for dinner we expect it to be of good quality, flavorful, and something we can enjoy. If it turns out to be all fat and gristle, we send it back. When we spend $25k for a new car, it isn't enough that it has a great name or looks good from the outside. We want it to perform and be durable enough that the doors and wheels don't fall off when we put it to use. If it doesn't we return it and demand our money back. When we spend $200k for a home, we want the roof and plumbing and electrical to work and for the floor to support the weight we put on it, and for there to be adequate insulation and utility and all the other things we expect from a well built home. If not we have legal recourse. We might look into a book because of its cover, but if we base the quality of the book on its cover, we will likely be cheated.

Likewise it should not be enough that a government program have a wonderful noble sounding title or be billed as a great achievement by our elected representatives. If it doesn't perform as advertised, or if it isn't what is advertised, government should be held accountable.

And NONE of us should buy a pig in poke, judge the government program by its cover, or believe everything the government tells us to justify taking more of our money. We should demand every bit as much value for our $10 paid to the government as we demand quality in that steak.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Let's look at it this way.......

1) America's education system...perhaps America's greatest failure. Shackled by an out of control corrupt teachers union that prevents a shred of accountability and looks out only for the betterment of the teachers and completely ignores the purpose of the institution. The government refuses to do anything about it (including Republicans) and does nothing but throw more and more money at a failed system that is outperformed by nearly every modern society across the globe.
2) Defense. We have the best military in the world, no one else really even comes close. Having said that, it is also a source of tremendous waste and a deeeeep well for politicians to dip into for local contracts and excess spending that the military does not need or want.
3) Monetary system. Nuff said, our financial system is completely corrupt and riddled with criminality and abuse from both companies and government alike - any hope of reform is probably lost.
4) Government healthcare systems - overrun with abuse, red tape and the bane of medical institutions nationwide, so much that numerous doctors refuse medicare patients. Let's expand this system shall we?

The list goes on...see any commonality in all of these....corruption perhaps?

 

[Foxfyre]

Let's look at it this way.......

1) America's education system...perhaps America's greatest failure. Shackled by an out of control corrupt teachers union that prevents a shred of accountability and looks out only for the betterment of the teachers and completely ignores the purpose of the institution. The government refuses to do anything about it (including Republicans) and does nothing but throw more and more money at a failed system that is outperformed by nearly every modern society across the globe.
2) Defense. We have the best military in the world, no one else really even comes close. Having said that, it is also a source of tremendous waste and a deeeeep well for politicians to dip into for local contracts and excess spending that the military does not need or want.
3) Monetary system. Nuff said, our financial system is completely corrupt and riddled with criminality and abuse from both companies and government alike - any hope of reform is probably lost.
4) Government healthcare systems - overrun with abuse, red tape and the bane of medical institutions nationwide, so much that numerous doctors refuse medicare patients. Let's expand this system shall we?

The list goes on...see any commonality in all of these....corruption perhaps?

As I posted previously, Medicare is costing us up to eight times as much as what the same services or procedures cost in the private sector. That is NOT cost effective. Whether we pay it out of pocket or keep adding it on to that horrendous national debt, it is extremely obvious that we aren't getting our money's worth.

A private citizen investing 12% of their earnings into conservative stable investments over their working life would retire at the very least a millionare. And could leave what they don't need to their heirs. The federal government takes 12.4% for social security and ensures you the barest of subsistance in income and, if you don't live to collect it, the balance is absorbed back into the government and your heirs have no claim on it. It is obvious we are not getting our money's worth.

 

[candycorn]

Best government anywhere...in the USA.

 

[candycorn]

Let's look at it this way.......

1) America's education system...perhaps America's greatest failure. Shackled by an out of control corrupt teachers union that prevents a shred of accountability and looks out only for the betterment of the teachers and completely ignores the purpose of the institution. The government refuses to do anything about it (including Republicans) and does nothing but throw more and more money at a failed system that is outperformed by nearly every modern society across the globe.
2) Defense. We have the best military in the world, no one else really even comes close. Having said that, it is also a source of tremendous waste and a deeeeep well for politicians to dip into for local contracts and excess spending that the military does not need or want.
3) Monetary system. Nuff said, our financial system is completely corrupt and riddled with criminality and abuse from both companies and government alike - any hope of reform is probably lost.
4) Government healthcare systems - overrun with abuse, red tape and the bane of medical institutions nationwide, so much that numerous doctors refuse medicare patients. Let's expand this system shall we?

The list goes on...see any commonality in all of these....corruption perhaps?

If you live in the US, can we count on you leaving soon if it's that corrupt?

 

[rightwinger]

The question is: are we getting our money's worth from the Federal Government? All the rest of the OP is purely for reference and food for thought.

Keeping the conversation as non partisan as possible and reasonably civil will be much appreciated. This is not intended to compare Democrats to Republicans but acknowledges all have sinned and fallen short. This is intended to be focused on satisfaction overall with what our government does and/or what we expect the government to accomplish with our tax dollars and/or what should happen if we don't get our money's worth and/or how we can get our money's worth.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION​

In 2010 and 2011 the Senate Leader and Speaker of the House each received $210,000/year in salary. Most member of Congress received $174,000 in salary.

That totals roughly $96 million/year for congressional salaries.

On top of that we pay just under $5 billion each and every year for their travel plans, security details and personal spending accounts.

These figures do not include the cost of the congressional offices infrastructure as that is not itemized in the federal budget. Or the massive amount of wealth most members of Congress can look forward to when they leave office due to deals they cut while they were in office. That comes at a price to us too.

There are also no figures itemized for the cost of retirement of our elected leaders who receive at least full salaries and health care for life at our expense if they stay in Congress for five years or more. Those who stay longer do much better. And if they die, their surviving spouses receive 3/4ths of their salary for life.

And what do their staffs and other federal employees cost us? Over a working career, the range is between $2.02 million for the cheapest federal employee (GS-1), and $11.3 million for the most expensive employee (GS-15). An employee in the middle of the federal pay scale (GS-8) will cost $4.27 million. And that doesn't count the infrastructure and other costs of doing business as government.
There are more than 2 million federal employees--the U.S. government is the nation's largest employer--and the President wants to hire tens of thousands more.

Then you add in the President and the very lucrative salaries and benefits paid to his staff and myriad appointees and all the costs associated with that.

That is why 2/3rds of every tax dollar collected these days is swallowed up in that enormous bureaucracy that doesn't seem to be able to do its job these days, partly because the President and the Congress keep moving the goal posts and partly because it has become so large and bloated few feel any sense of duty or responsibility. And based on recent news reports, many feel entitled to just enjoy our money whether or not they accomplish anything useful.

And now our elected leaders left Washington for their August recess - five weeks of vacation - leaving numerous critical pieces of legislation undone, doing nothing to address the next impending debt ceiling crisis that is currently crashing the stock market, doing nothing to address the train wreck of impending Obamacare issues that, along with the unresolved tax and budget issues, is driving the economy through the floor.

Are we getting our money's worth?

Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Overworked Congress Goes on Vacation | Las Vegas Guardian Express
Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Americans for Tax Reform : How Much Does It Cost Taxpayers<br> To Hire a New Federal Employee?

My experience in working over 35 years with the federal government is you get what you pay for

I saw 25 years of government on the cheap. I worked mostly with engineers. We were trying to hire engineers out of college at $10k a year less than the private sector was paying. The government ended up with engineers with C averages from non-major universities. They didn't care as long as they had a degree

These engineers were specifying and buying military equipment from Defense Contractors who had engineers with PhDs from top universities. Tough to defend your case

Same went for government lawyers. We would have GS-12 lawyers trying to declare a contract invalid for noncompliance going against top defense teams for the defense contractors

 

[Foxfyre]

The question is: are we getting our money's worth from the Federal Government? All the rest of the OP is purely for reference and food for thought.

Keeping the conversation as non partisan as possible and reasonably civil will be much appreciated. This is not intended to compare Democrats to Republicans but acknowledges all have sinned and fallen short. This is intended to be focused on satisfaction overall with what our government does and/or what we expect the government to accomplish with our tax dollars and/or what should happen if we don't get our money's worth and/or how we can get our money's worth.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION​

In 2010 and 2011 the Senate Leader and Speaker of the House each received $210,000/year in salary. Most member of Congress received $174,000 in salary.

That totals roughly $96 million/year for congressional salaries.

On top of that we pay just under $5 billion each and every year for their travel plans, security details and personal spending accounts.

These figures do not include the cost of the congressional offices infrastructure as that is not itemized in the federal budget. Or the massive amount of wealth most members of Congress can look forward to when they leave office due to deals they cut while they were in office. That comes at a price to us too.

There are also no figures itemized for the cost of retirement of our elected leaders who receive at least full salaries and health care for life at our expense if they stay in Congress for five years or more. Those who stay longer do much better. And if they die, their surviving spouses receive 3/4ths of their salary for life.

And what do their staffs and other federal employees cost us? Over a working career, the range is between $2.02 million for the cheapest federal employee (GS-1), and $11.3 million for the most expensive employee (GS-15). An employee in the middle of the federal pay scale (GS-8) will cost $4.27 million. And that doesn't count the infrastructure and other costs of doing business as government.
There are more than 2 million federal employees--the U.S. government is the nation's largest employer--and the President wants to hire tens of thousands more.

Then you add in the President and the very lucrative salaries and benefits paid to his staff and myriad appointees and all the costs associated with that.

That is why 2/3rds of every tax dollar collected these days is swallowed up in that enormous bureaucracy that doesn't seem to be able to do its job these days, partly because the President and the Congress keep moving the goal posts and partly because it has become so large and bloated few feel any sense of duty or responsibility. And based on recent news reports, many feel entitled to just enjoy our money whether or not they accomplish anything useful.

And now our elected leaders left Washington for their August recess - five weeks of vacation - leaving numerous critical pieces of legislation undone, doing nothing to address the next impending debt ceiling crisis that is currently crashing the stock market, doing nothing to address the train wreck of impending Obamacare issues that, along with the unresolved tax and budget issues, is driving the economy through the floor.

Are we getting our money's worth?

Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Overworked Congress Goes on Vacation | Las Vegas Guardian Express
Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Americans for Tax Reform : How Much Does It Cost Taxpayers<br> To Hire a New Federal Employee?

My experience in working over 35 years with the federal government is you get what you pay for

I saw 25 years of government on the cheap. I worked mostly with engineers. We were trying to hire engineers out of college at $10k a year less than the private sector was paying. The government ended up with engineers with C averages from non-major universities. They didn't care as long as they had a degree

These engineers were specifying and buying military equipment from Defense Contractors who had engineers with PhDs from top universities. Tough to defend your case

Same went for government lawyers. We would have GS-12 lawyers trying to declare a contract invalid for noncompliance going against top defense teams for the defense contractors

And if I had a problem like that I would solve it by appointing the best engineering mind I could find to head whatever department. And if the government absolutely had to do the project--it shouldn't be doing it otherwise--that person would put out bids to the private engineering firms who hired all those top notch engineers, tell them what you want to accomplish, and leave it to them to draw up the specs and offer you a price for the job. You take best proposal that falls within your budget along with solid recovery options for the taxpayer if the firm does not deliver as it contracts to deliver, plus it will show proof of adequate bonding and other insurance to cover any liability exposure should the firm create a dangerous situation.

I believe this method of doing necessary government business would save us billions of dollars and would produce a far more efficient and competent result than anything government is generally able to do.

 

[rightwinger]

The question is: are we getting our money's worth from the Federal Government? All the rest of the OP is purely for reference and food for thought.

Keeping the conversation as non partisan as possible and reasonably civil will be much appreciated. This is not intended to compare Democrats to Republicans but acknowledges all have sinned and fallen short. This is intended to be focused on satisfaction overall with what our government does and/or what we expect the government to accomplish with our tax dollars and/or what should happen if we don't get our money's worth and/or how we can get our money's worth.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION​

In 2010 and 2011 the Senate Leader and Speaker of the House each received $210,000/year in salary. Most member of Congress received $174,000 in salary.

That totals roughly $96 million/year for congressional salaries.

On top of that we pay just under $5 billion each and every year for their travel plans, security details and personal spending accounts.

These figures do not include the cost of the congressional offices infrastructure as that is not itemized in the federal budget. Or the massive amount of wealth most members of Congress can look forward to when they leave office due to deals they cut while they were in office. That comes at a price to us too.

There are also no figures itemized for the cost of retirement of our elected leaders who receive at least full salaries and health care for life at our expense if they stay in Congress for five years or more. Those who stay longer do much better. And if they die, their surviving spouses receive 3/4ths of their salary for life.

And what do their staffs and other federal employees cost us? Over a working career, the range is between $2.02 million for the cheapest federal employee (GS-1), and $11.3 million for the most expensive employee (GS-15). An employee in the middle of the federal pay scale (GS-8) will cost $4.27 million. And that doesn't count the infrastructure and other costs of doing business as government.
There are more than 2 million federal employees--the U.S. government is the nation's largest employer--and the President wants to hire tens of thousands more.

Then you add in the President and the very lucrative salaries and benefits paid to his staff and myriad appointees and all the costs associated with that.

That is why 2/3rds of every tax dollar collected these days is swallowed up in that enormous bureaucracy that doesn't seem to be able to do its job these days, partly because the President and the Congress keep moving the goal posts and partly because it has become so large and bloated few feel any sense of duty or responsibility. And based on recent news reports, many feel entitled to just enjoy our money whether or not they accomplish anything useful.

And now our elected leaders left Washington for their August recess - five weeks of vacation - leaving numerous critical pieces of legislation undone, doing nothing to address the next impending debt ceiling crisis that is currently crashing the stock market, doing nothing to address the train wreck of impending Obamacare issues that, along with the unresolved tax and budget issues, is driving the economy through the floor.

Are we getting our money's worth?

Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Overworked Congress Goes on Vacation | Las Vegas Guardian Express
Legislation left undone as Congress takes off
Americans for Tax Reform : How Much Does It Cost Taxpayers<br> To Hire a New Federal Employee?

My experience in working over 35 years with the federal government is you get what you pay for

I saw 25 years of government on the cheap. I worked mostly with engineers. We were trying to hire engineers out of college at $10k a year less than the private sector was paying. The government ended up with engineers with C averages from non-major universities. They didn't care as long as they had a degree

These engineers were specifying and buying military equipment from Defense Contractors who had engineers with PhDs from top universities. Tough to defend your case

Same went for government lawyers. We would have GS-12 lawyers trying to declare a contract invalid for noncompliance going against top defense teams for the defense contractors

And if I had a problem like that I would solve it by appointing the best engineering mind I could find to head whatever department. And if the government absolutely had to do the project--it shouldn't be doing it otherwise--that person would put out bids to the private engineering firms who hired all those top notch engineers, tell them what you want to accomplish, and leave it to them to draw up the specs and offer you a price for the job. You take best proposal that falls within your budget along with solid recovery options for the taxpayer if the firm does not deliver as it contracts to deliver, plus it will show proof of adequate bonding and other insurance to cover any liability exposure should the firm create a dangerous situation.

I believe this method of doing necessary government business would save us billions of dollars and would produce a far more efficient and competent result than anything government is generally able to do.

Once again you get what you pay for and that goes top to bottom

You can't contract out everything and someone has to represent the government. Specs are written by what the soldier needs. We take those needs and generate requirements and then individual specifications. You can't contract that out, it would be one contractor awarding a contract to another on behalf of the taxpayer

What do you consider necessary government business?