Fedgov vs Apple : In re Iphone "backdoor"

[kaz]

You are a small government libertarian that believes the government has the right to demand labor from you to do its job for them.

I already addressed this strawman. You can't show any quote I wanted Apple to solve or investicate anything. That's government's job to investigate it. Repeating a lie doesn't make it truth. Apple just needs to provide access to he data. A capability they have in their normal course of business. They've already spent more on lawyers fighting it than it would have cost to provide it.

So you seriously believe that if a horrific mass murder were committed next door and a piece of evidence was sitting in your yard, you can tell the police they can't have it and they can't get it even with a warrant unless they have probable cause that you committed the crime because you're a third party? Seriously?

You need to read the Jefferson quote again, he wrote it for you. Anarchy is a death pact. You want the chance to show your ideology is driven by your inability to function with other people, like simply allowing the police to gather evidence in trying to solve a crime

 

[Contumacious]

Tim Cook: Apple Won't Create 'Backdoor' to Help FBI Access San Bernardino Shooter's iPhone

Cook concludes Apple's open letter by saying the company's opposition to the order is not an action they took lightly and that they challenge the request "with the deepest respect for democracy and a love for our country." Ultimately, Apple fears these demands would "undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect."


Contumacious applauds Mr. Tim Cook.

What the government is asking for will destroy Apple.

Under the old Constitution (1787-1935) Apple had rights protected by the 4 and 5th Amendments. It also had a right to Judicial Review.

That is no longer available. Mr Cook is own his own.

An Article III Judge would have demanded that the government stop meddling in the internal affairs of other nations.

A scumbag spineless impostor pretending to be a judge will simply comply with the FBI's request.


.For shame.

If I could help get people who assisted in someone murdering his co-workers and waging war on the American people, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

There is no freedom in being dead. You have so many better issues of government atrocities to focus on. The Constitution is there to protect the innocent, not the guilty.

Thomas Jefferson: "strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means."

The Constitution wasn't a suicide pact

No, it is not and this is not 'committing suicide.'

The fact that you or most people would help in a heart beat does not mean that the government should have the ability to COMPEL you to do so.

Read the fourth amendment.

And Apple has the choice, the fourth doesn't say you can't cooperate without a warrant. Apple should just help

The Fourth Amendment was abolished in 1935. Nowadays Americans have no right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects.

Whatever the government wants the government gets. No judicial review.

.

 

[FA_Q2]

The Constitution wasn't a suicide pact

That cliche does not apply in these proceedings in any way shape or form

1) Congress has NO authority to meddle in the internal affairs of other nations, specifically, it has no authority to created "terrorists", actually avengers

2- You have no idea what happened in San Bernardino ; the incident occurred in a government building , lots of police cruises with dashcams yet they have failed or refused to share any videos with the populace - that in my book is fucked up - they are concealing something

3- the executive branch has no authority to concoct scam simply because they don't like encryption - the motherfuckers actually believe that they have authority to spy on us ; since we are now a banana republic I'm certain the government will destroy Apple -- but I'm also certain that the blackmarket will compensate by creating encryption not subject to any government's jurisdiction


.

They can't just compel you. They have to go to court and get a warrant or you have to agree to do it for them. In this case they aren't even doing it without a warrant, they have one. And with good reason. Going into a room and shooting a bunch of people is clearly "probable cause"


Apple isn't protecting anyone. No one but bad guys would be upset they helped the police investigate a mass shooting At this point everyone including the bad guys know they can tap the phone This is a case of zero benefit, they are just helping terrorists murder people and the people who help them get away with it

They cant compel you period. What makes you think that the government should have the right to compel you to perform work for them?

A warrant has nothing to do with compulsion - it has to do with suspending your rights against searches.

Finally, where have I made any statement that Apple is protecting anything other than perhaps their own bottom line. It really is not a matter of weather or not you agree with Apple's position. It really has to do with weather or not you think the government should have the power to force you to produce a product for them or force you to serve them in whatever endeavor they may dream up for you.

If you believe in freedom then the answer is crystal clear - no the do not. If you are a totalitarian then sure, why not allow with government to come into your home and demand that you search your neighbors hose - they are the government after all.

So if I agree with the fourth amendment, I'm against freedom, got it. This message has been brought to you by the anarchists are as big a crack pots as liberals are organization.

If you guys want to hold hands and jump off a cliff together, be my guest. Sure, the warrant isn't being served on Apple, Apple just needs to do limited work within the capabilities of it's organization to help them get it.

I hope they start arresting Apple executives until they get it. And Apple is the scum of the earth for doing actions that accomplish nothing but the death of more innocent people

Nope. This is not a 4th amendment issue. I know I have already explained it and I know you want to ignore it because you have no argument whatsoever. Continue prattling on about your straw man - it shows how weak your position is.

Of course it's a fourth amendment issue. Apple is blocking government from pursuing criminals. Your strawman that government wanted them to do it for them was preposterous. Government just wanted them to provide access to the data. Everything was normal course of business for Apple. They were being accused of nothing, were putting themselves at no risk and were being asked for nothing extraordinary. There is nothing different than government seeing evidence of a crime on your property and you say sorry, you can't take it and you can't get a warrant because you know I am not the one who did anything. So it stays in my yard.

A lot of people died. Anyone who helped them could help others do the same thing. There is no reason to defend that other than being an ass. Which is what anarchists love to be. The idea that government can't step on your property and get evidence when it doesn't harm you in any way is retarded. As is that Apple can't be compelled to give access to evidence of a crime when there is ample probable cause, they just aren't the criminal, they just are blocking access to the evidence

Preposterous? That is exactly what is happening. The key to the phone does not exist. There isn't one. What the government wants is for one to be CREATED.

They are demanding apple to create it.

No different than wanting to access my house and requiring the local locksmith to come down and do it for them. If you do not see the obvious then there is little I can do. What you are calling a straw man is nothing of the sort - it is the core problem. Again, had this been any other issue I have no doubt that you would have been all over the government forcing people to do their dirty work for them. Suddenly everything changes when terrorism is involved. I am unwilling to give up freedoms or increase government powers simply because they chose another boogeyman to scare us into doing so.

This particular boogeyman is not even close to the scale that justifies such an expansion of powers.

 

[Little-Acorn]

I believe the Fed govt can't force Apple to create and give them a key that will un-encrypt all Apple phones.

They can (with a warrant, which they have) compel Apple to tell them what's in that terrorists' phone.

Why doesn't Apple say something like this?

"We want to catch and defeat these terrorists as much as you do. So we'll tell you what we'll do. You hand us that terrorists' phone, and one of your technical guys can come with it to watch everything we'll do. We'll set up a sealed room that WiFi signals can't penetrate, and have no electronic connections in or out of the room.

"We'll put several high-powered computers in there, and have three of our most experienced encryption people work on this phone. Your technical guy can go with them to observe everything, and he can ask them all the questions he wants. But he cannot make any notes or recordings. If they need more software or tables or whatever, they will bring them into the room on media such as flash drives, DVD-ROMS, etc. But nothing that is brought into the room, will ever be brought out again, except the people and the terrorists' phone itself. After a few days, or maybe a week or two, they will come out and hand you complete records of EVERYTHING that is in that phone.

"And immediately after they do that, all the computers, media, and everything else in the room, will be destroyed. And we'll send you the bill for the people's time, the cost of the equipment, etc.

"Then we will be able to tell all our customers truthfully, that there is NO software or program in existence that can decrypt their Apple phone, because it was all destroyed immediately after we decrypted that one terrorists' phone. None of the people who did it (or the govt technician who watched it done) have any notes or records of what they did. They have the thoughts in their heads, of course, but they won't be able to decrypt any other phone unless they go through the entire software-development effort again.

"We are NOT giving the government ANYTHING they could possibly use to decrypt any phone, anywhere. We are giving them only the contents of that one terrorists' phone."

"And if they capture another terrorists' phone next year and get a warrant to decrypt it, we will set up the room again and go through the entire effort again, re-inventing the wheel, and then destroy the system, software, and records immediately afterward.

"That's the deal. Take it or leave it."


Any problem with this?

 

[FA_Q2]

You are a small government libertarian that believes the government has the right to demand labor from you to do its job for them.

I already addressed this strawman. You can't show any quote I wanted Apple to solve or investicate anything. That's government's job to investigate it. Repeating a lie doesn't make it truth. Apple just needs to provide access to he data. A capability they have in their normal course of business. They've already spent more on lawyers fighting it than it would have cost to provide it.

So you seriously believe that if a horrific mass murder were committed next door and a piece of evidence was sitting in your yard, you can tell the police they can't have it and they can't get it even with a warrant unless they have probable cause that you committed the crime because you're a third party? Seriously?

You need to read the Jefferson quote again, he wrote it for you. Anarchy is a death pact. You want the chance to show your ideology is driven by your inability to function with other people, like simply allowing the police to gather evidence in trying to solve a crime

I am not an anarchist so you are going to have to argue that idiocy with someone else.

And no, Apple does not have the the capability through their normal course of business to access the phone. That is the point. If they already had access then there would be no case - a warrant allows the government to freely search and obtain such a key. The fact that it does not exist and they want Apple to create it for them is another story altogether.

Again with this suicide pact bullshit as well. As I already pointed out, that is a misnomer. There is no suicide pact at all.

 

[Contumacious]

I believe the Fed govt can't force Apple to create and give them a key that will un-encrypt all Apple phones.

They can (with a warrant, which they have) compel Apple to tell them what's in that terrorists' phone.

Why doesn't Apple say something like this?

"We want to catch and defeat these terrorists as much as you do. So we'll tell you what we'll do. You hand us that terrorists' phone, and one of your technical guys can come with it to watch everything we'll do. We'll set up a sealed room that WiFi signals can't penetrate, and have no electronic connections in or out of the room.

"We'll put several high-powered computers in there, and have three of our most experienced encryption people work on this phone. Your technical guy can go with them to observe everything, and he can ask them all the questions he wants. But he cannot make any notes or recordings. If they need more software or tables or whatever, they will bring them into the room on media such as flash drives, DVD-ROMS, etc. But nothing that is brought into the room, will ever be brought out again, except the people and the terrorists' phone itself. After a few days, or maybe a week or two, they will come out and hand you complete records of EVERYTHING that is in that phone.

"And immediately after they do that, all the computers, media, and everything else in the room, will be destroyed. And we'll send you the bill for the people's time, the cost of the equipment, etc.

"Then we will be able to tell all our customers truthfully, that there is NO software or program in existence that can decrypt their Apple phone, because it was all destroyed immediately after we decrypted that one terrorists' phone. None of the people who did it (or the govt technician who watched it done) have any notes or records of what they did. They have the thoughts in their heads, of course, but they won't be able to decrypt any other phone unless they go through the entire software-development effort again.

"We are NOT giving the government ANYTHING they could possibly use to decrypt any phone, anywhere. We are giving them only the contents of that one terrorists' phone."

"And if they capture another terrorists' phone next year and get a warrant to decrypt it, we will set up the room again and go through the entire effort again, re-inventing the wheel, and then destroy the system, software, and records immediately afterward.

"That's the deal. Take it or leave it."


Any problem with this?

Apple vs. FBI: Common software would've let FBI unlock shooter's iPhone

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

 

[Little-Acorn]

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Yep. But they didn't install it, so now we're in this situation.

Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

 

[kaz]

They can't just compel you. They have to go to court and get a warrant or you have to agree to do it for them. In this case they aren't even doing it without a warrant, they have one. And with good reason. Going into a room and shooting a bunch of people is clearly "probable cause"


Apple isn't protecting anyone. No one but bad guys would be upset they helped the police investigate a mass shooting At this point everyone including the bad guys know they can tap the phone This is a case of zero benefit, they are just helping terrorists murder people and the people who help them get away with it

They cant compel you period. What makes you think that the government should have the right to compel you to perform work for them?

A warrant has nothing to do with compulsion - it has to do with suspending your rights against searches.

Finally, where have I made any statement that Apple is protecting anything other than perhaps their own bottom line. It really is not a matter of weather or not you agree with Apple's position. It really has to do with weather or not you think the government should have the power to force you to produce a product for them or force you to serve them in whatever endeavor they may dream up for you.

If you believe in freedom then the answer is crystal clear - no the do not. If you are a totalitarian then sure, why not allow with government to come into your home and demand that you search your neighbors hose - they are the government after all.

So if I agree with the fourth amendment, I'm against freedom, got it. This message has been brought to you by the anarchists are as big a crack pots as liberals are organization.

If you guys want to hold hands and jump off a cliff together, be my guest. Sure, the warrant isn't being served on Apple, Apple just needs to do limited work within the capabilities of it's organization to help them get it.

I hope they start arresting Apple executives until they get it. And Apple is the scum of the earth for doing actions that accomplish nothing but the death of more innocent people

Nope. This is not a 4th amendment issue. I know I have already explained it and I know you want to ignore it because you have no argument whatsoever. Continue prattling on about your straw man - it shows how weak your position is.

Of course it's a fourth amendment issue. Apple is blocking government from pursuing criminals. Your strawman that government wanted them to do it for them was preposterous. Government just wanted them to provide access to the data. Everything was normal course of business for Apple. They were being accused of nothing, were putting themselves at no risk and were being asked for nothing extraordinary. There is nothing different than government seeing evidence of a crime on your property and you say sorry, you can't take it and you can't get a warrant because you know I am not the one who did anything. So it stays in my yard.

A lot of people died. Anyone who helped them could help others do the same thing. There is no reason to defend that other than being an ass. Which is what anarchists love to be. The idea that government can't step on your property and get evidence when it doesn't harm you in any way is retarded. As is that Apple can't be compelled to give access to evidence of a crime when there is ample probable cause, they just aren't the criminal, they just are blocking access to the evidence

Preposterous? That is exactly what is happening. The key to the phone does not exist. There isn't one. What the government wants is for one to be CREATED.

They are demanding apple to create it.

No different than wanting to access my house and requiring the local locksmith to come down and do it for them. If you do not see the obvious then there is little I can do. What you are calling a straw man is nothing of the sort - it is the core problem. Again, had this been any other issue I have no doubt that you would have been all over the government forcing people to do their dirty work for them. Suddenly everything changes when terrorism is involved. I am unwilling to give up freedoms or increase government powers simply because they chose another boogeyman to scare us into doing so.

This particular boogeyman is not even close to the scale that justifies such an expansion of powers.

When you keep saying I want Apple to do the government's job for them, that is a strawman, no two ways about it. It's the government's job to solve crimes and I never said Apple needs to do anything to solve the crime.

And you didn't answer the question. Same situation. There's a Manson style murder scene next door to you. Evidence is in your yard. You refuse to grant access to them to retrieve it. According to you, they can't get a warrant to get it unless they have probable cause to investigate you for the crime. But they don't think you did it, they just want the evidence.

So, they're screwed? They can't get it?

 

[kaz]

You are a small government libertarian that believes the government has the right to demand labor from you to do its job for them.

I already addressed this strawman. You can't show any quote I wanted Apple to solve or investicate anything. That's government's job to investigate it. Repeating a lie doesn't make it truth. Apple just needs to provide access to he data. A capability they have in their normal course of business. They've already spent more on lawyers fighting it than it would have cost to provide it.

So you seriously believe that if a horrific mass murder were committed next door and a piece of evidence was sitting in your yard, you can tell the police they can't have it and they can't get it even with a warrant unless they have probable cause that you committed the crime because you're a third party? Seriously?

You need to read the Jefferson quote again, he wrote it for you. Anarchy is a death pact. You want the chance to show your ideology is driven by your inability to function with other people, like simply allowing the police to gather evidence in trying to solve a crime

I am not an anarchist so you are going to have to argue that idiocy with someone else.

And no, Apple does not have the the capability through their normal course of business to access the phone. That is the point. If they already had access then there would be no case - a warrant allows the government to freely search and obtain such a key. The fact that it does not exist and they want Apple to create it for them is another story altogether.

Again with this suicide pact bullshit as well. As I already pointed out, that is a misnomer. There is no suicide pact at all.

OK, so you're not an anarchist, you just want to hold hands with them and jump off the cliff.

Who's rights to you think you are fighting for exactly? Apple's right's aren't at risk, the government obviously doesn't think they had anything to do with the crime. Government has probable cause to investigate the shooters. You're protecting anyone who helped them. Other than trying to create more victims, what do you want out of this?

 

[kaz]

I believe the Fed govt can't force Apple to create and give them a key that will un-encrypt all Apple phones.

They can (with a warrant, which they have) compel Apple to tell them what's in that terrorists' phone.

Why doesn't Apple say something like this?

"We want to catch and defeat these terrorists as much as you do. So we'll tell you what we'll do. You hand us that terrorists' phone, and one of your technical guys can come with it to watch everything we'll do. We'll set up a sealed room that WiFi signals can't penetrate, and have no electronic connections in or out of the room.

"We'll put several high-powered computers in there, and have three of our most experienced encryption people work on this phone. Your technical guy can go with them to observe everything, and he can ask them all the questions he wants. But he cannot make any notes or recordings. If they need more software or tables or whatever, they will bring them into the room on media such as flash drives, DVD-ROMS, etc. But nothing that is brought into the room, will ever be brought out again, except the people and the terrorists' phone itself. After a few days, or maybe a week or two, they will come out and hand you complete records of EVERYTHING that is in that phone.

"And immediately after they do that, all the computers, media, and everything else in the room, will be destroyed. And we'll send you the bill for the people's time, the cost of the equipment, etc.

"Then we will be able to tell all our customers truthfully, that there is NO software or program in existence that can decrypt their Apple phone, because it was all destroyed immediately after we decrypted that one terrorists' phone. None of the people who did it (or the govt technician who watched it done) have any notes or records of what they did. They have the thoughts in their heads, of course, but they won't be able to decrypt any other phone unless they go through the entire software-development effort again.

"We are NOT giving the government ANYTHING they could possibly use to decrypt any phone, anywhere. We are giving them only the contents of that one terrorists' phone."

"And if they capture another terrorists' phone next year and get a warrant to decrypt it, we will set up the room again and go through the entire effort again, re-inventing the wheel, and then destroy the system, software, and records immediately afterward.

"That's the deal. Take it or leave it."


Any problem with this?

Apple vs. FBI: Common software would've let FBI unlock shooter's iPhone

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Wow, that sucks

 

[Contumacious]

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Yep. But they didn't install it, so now we're in this situation.

Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

 

[kaz]

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Yep. But they didn't install it, so now we're in this situation.

Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

How does that contradict acorn's point? He didn't advocate giving them a back door

 

[Contumacious]

I believe the Fed govt can't force Apple to create and give them a key that will un-encrypt all Apple phones.

They can (with a warrant, which they have) compel Apple to tell them what's in that terrorists' phone.

Why doesn't Apple say something like this?

"We want to catch and defeat these terrorists as much as you do. So we'll tell you what we'll do. You hand us that terrorists' phone, and one of your technical guys can come with it to watch everything we'll do. We'll set up a sealed room that WiFi signals can't penetrate, and have no electronic connections in or out of the room.

"We'll put several high-powered computers in there, and have three of our most experienced encryption people work on this phone. Your technical guy can go with them to observe everything, and he can ask them all the questions he wants. But he cannot make any notes or recordings. If they need more software or tables or whatever, they will bring them into the room on media such as flash drives, DVD-ROMS, etc. But nothing that is brought into the room, will ever be brought out again, except the people and the terrorists' phone itself. After a few days, or maybe a week or two, they will come out and hand you complete records of EVERYTHING that is in that phone.

"And immediately after they do that, all the computers, media, and everything else in the room, will be destroyed. And we'll send you the bill for the people's time, the cost of the equipment, etc.

"Then we will be able to tell all our customers truthfully, that there is NO software or program in existence that can decrypt their Apple phone, because it was all destroyed immediately after we decrypted that one terrorists' phone. None of the people who did it (or the govt technician who watched it done) have any notes or records of what they did. They have the thoughts in their heads, of course, but they won't be able to decrypt any other phone unless they go through the entire software-development effort again.

"We are NOT giving the government ANYTHING they could possibly use to decrypt any phone, anywhere. We are giving them only the contents of that one terrorists' phone."

"And if they capture another terrorists' phone next year and get a warrant to decrypt it, we will set up the room again and go through the entire effort again, re-inventing the wheel, and then destroy the system, software, and records immediately afterward.

"That's the deal. Take it or leave it."


Any problem with this?

Apple vs. FBI: Common software would've let FBI unlock shooter's iPhone

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Wow, that sucks

Yes , it does.

But now Apple pays the consequences. So do , WE THE PEOPLE since encryption benefits all of US.


.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

Really? Well, good luck finding one.

Back to the subject:
Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

 

[kaz]

I believe the Fed govt can't force Apple to create and give them a key that will un-encrypt all Apple phones.

They can (with a warrant, which they have) compel Apple to tell them what's in that terrorists' phone.

Why doesn't Apple say something like this?

"We want to catch and defeat these terrorists as much as you do. So we'll tell you what we'll do. You hand us that terrorists' phone, and one of your technical guys can come with it to watch everything we'll do. We'll set up a sealed room that WiFi signals can't penetrate, and have no electronic connections in or out of the room.

"We'll put several high-powered computers in there, and have three of our most experienced encryption people work on this phone. Your technical guy can go with them to observe everything, and he can ask them all the questions he wants. But he cannot make any notes or recordings. If they need more software or tables or whatever, they will bring them into the room on media such as flash drives, DVD-ROMS, etc. But nothing that is brought into the room, will ever be brought out again, except the people and the terrorists' phone itself. After a few days, or maybe a week or two, they will come out and hand you complete records of EVERYTHING that is in that phone.

"And immediately after they do that, all the computers, media, and everything else in the room, will be destroyed. And we'll send you the bill for the people's time, the cost of the equipment, etc.

"Then we will be able to tell all our customers truthfully, that there is NO software or program in existence that can decrypt their Apple phone, because it was all destroyed immediately after we decrypted that one terrorists' phone. None of the people who did it (or the govt technician who watched it done) have any notes or records of what they did. They have the thoughts in their heads, of course, but they won't be able to decrypt any other phone unless they go through the entire software-development effort again.

"We are NOT giving the government ANYTHING they could possibly use to decrypt any phone, anywhere. We are giving them only the contents of that one terrorists' phone."

"And if they capture another terrorists' phone next year and get a warrant to decrypt it, we will set up the room again and go through the entire effort again, re-inventing the wheel, and then destroy the system, software, and records immediately afterward.

"That's the deal. Take it or leave it."


Any problem with this?

Apple vs. FBI: Common software would've let FBI unlock shooter's iPhone

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Wow, that sucks

Yes , it does.

But now Apple pays the consequences. So do , WE THE PEOPLE since encryption benefits all of US.


.

I oppose the government effort to force companies to provide them a back door, but in this case Apple can break the code, so there isn't a benefit to we the people except staying alive. I realize Anarchists are all too willing to die for an ideological point with no substance, but you aren't protecting we the people from anything here

 

[kaz]

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

Really? Well, good luck finding one.

Back to the subject:
Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

yes, they want to keep the anarchist purity and that solves the problem

 

[Contumacious]

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

Really? Well, good luck finding one.

Back to the subject:
Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

Apple is saying no can do.

It is THEIR software. THEIR business.


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[Contumacious]

I believe the Fed govt can't force Apple to create and give them a key that will un-encrypt all Apple phones.

They can (with a warrant, which they have) compel Apple to tell them what's in that terrorists' phone.

Why doesn't Apple say something like this?

"We want to catch and defeat these terrorists as much as you do. So we'll tell you what we'll do. You hand us that terrorists' phone, and one of your technical guys can come with it to watch everything we'll do. We'll set up a sealed room that WiFi signals can't penetrate, and have no electronic connections in or out of the room.

"We'll put several high-powered computers in there, and have three of our most experienced encryption people work on this phone. Your technical guy can go with them to observe everything, and he can ask them all the questions he wants. But he cannot make any notes or recordings. If they need more software or tables or whatever, they will bring them into the room on media such as flash drives, DVD-ROMS, etc. But nothing that is brought into the room, will ever be brought out again, except the people and the terrorists' phone itself. After a few days, or maybe a week or two, they will come out and hand you complete records of EVERYTHING that is in that phone.

"And immediately after they do that, all the computers, media, and everything else in the room, will be destroyed. And we'll send you the bill for the people's time, the cost of the equipment, etc.

"Then we will be able to tell all our customers truthfully, that there is NO software or program in existence that can decrypt their Apple phone, because it was all destroyed immediately after we decrypted that one terrorists' phone. None of the people who did it (or the govt technician who watched it done) have any notes or records of what they did. They have the thoughts in their heads, of course, but they won't be able to decrypt any other phone unless they go through the entire software-development effort again.

"We are NOT giving the government ANYTHING they could possibly use to decrypt any phone, anywhere. We are giving them only the contents of that one terrorists' phone."

"And if they capture another terrorists' phone next year and get a warrant to decrypt it, we will set up the room again and go through the entire effort again, re-inventing the wheel, and then destroy the system, software, and records immediately afterward.

"That's the deal. Take it or leave it."


Any problem with this?

Apple vs. FBI: Common software would've let FBI unlock shooter's iPhone

WASHINGTON -- The county government that owned the iPhone in a high-profile legal battle between Apple and the Justice Department paid for but never installed a feature that would have allowed the FBI to easily and immediately unlock the phone as part of the terrorism investigation into the shootings that killed 14 people in San Bernardino.

Wow, that sucks

Yes , it does.

But now Apple pays the consequences. So do , WE THE PEOPLE since encryption benefits all of US.


.

I oppose the government effort to force companies to provide them a back door, but in this case Apple can break the code, so there isn't a benefit to we the people except staying alive. I realize Anarchists are all too willing to die for an ideological point with no substance, but you aren't protecting we the people from anything here

Did Apple say that it can not be done?

Is Google, or any other company saying that it can be done?

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[kaz]

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

Really? Well, good luck finding one.

Back to the subject:
Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

Apple is saying no can do.

It is THEIR software. THEIR business.


.

The government isn't doing anything to their software or their business. They are trying to investigate a crime they had nothing to do with. There is no threat to them

 

[Timmy]

The government wants a backdoor - the government bureaucrats believes that they have a right to spy on us now that the fourth amendment is no longer in effect.

Really? Well, good luck finding one.

Back to the subject:
Would there be any problem with Apple voluntarily putting together a one-time software package inside Apple's own plant, using it to unlock this terrorists' phone, handing the govt all the records from the phone, and then destroying the software package so no one could ever modify it or use it on any other phone?

Why would it be one time ? At that point apple admits theyve made the key. Now law enforcement can demand it whenever they need it .