Fellow Centrists, Classical Liberals, Independents, etc. - We need to talk.

[EverCurious]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you. [EDIT - note, if you're a partisan hack, this post probably doesn't apply to you heh]

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Excellent post. Of course Liberals are totally fine with destroying a man and his family for perceived political gain. They are totally fine with throwing the foundation of our justice system out the window. They use weak technicalities to hide their shame like "Oh it's not a real trial so it's cool to assassinate a man's character in front of the whole world". This week has disgusted me more than any other, it just shows how far the Democrats have sunk and how divided we are. That is WAY not good for America.

I'm also not to pleased with the D's pushing the bullshit that "Roe vs Wade" is about "women's rights," much less that Kavanaugh was most definitely going to take that away from them. This whole case against Kavanaugh is a shame, it's a bald faced lie from "leaders" who have zero interest in anything but their own gains - be that power, money, reelection, or whatever they strive for. It's disgusting.

I think if you asked the average Liberal on the street what scares you about Brett Kavanaugh it would be 'losing abortion rights'. If you then asked how specifically Kavanaugh could take those rights away, you would get the deer in the headlights stare. You have Democrats playing on people's pure emotion and counting on their ignorance.

100% correct. I mean, it's not a new tactic on either side or anything. However, there used to be a... idk compromise on logger head issues like abortion - like I am pro-choice but I totally understand and respect that some people believe it's murder. I cannot blame them for being against it, I certainly don't hate them for it... The D's have ... "tricked" these kids into thinking everything has to be black or white. I don't like it much.

 

[iceberg]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you.

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Wall of Words. Pass.

condensed version - stop being a dick to everyone and realize how getting what *we* demand for *our* side is killing the country as a whole.

back to candy crush for you now.

I read the comment again and it still is BS. Cleverly disguised rambling propaganda. Quotes of this and that, with conclusions that lead to conspiracy dead ends and caveats of nothing.

well glad you read it.

next up we work on comprehension.

 

[iceberg]

This isn't exactly a debate post... Everyone is welcome to whatever opinion and whatever facts they find most compelling.

I am simply asking that folks decide where their principles lay - and to go vote for what they believe in.

And people should vote based on what is best for society as a whole, not what is their party tells them to. Republicans are saying that Democrats are being so hard on Kavanaugh simply because he is being appointed by Trump. That's not true at all. There was no accusations or anything like this AT ALL with Gorsuch. The real issue here is, it's much easier for the Republicans to blame this on partisanship, and use that as a backdoor from the situation and to pump their base, than to take the time to find out if the accusations are true or not. It's plain as day.

Stop trying to insert your context into what I've posted.

This is not about Kavanaugh so much as it is about the foundation principles that the D's just threw away, the "innocent" citizens they destroy, to buy themselves time to gain power/fame/time/whatever.

It very much is. Instead of using partisanship and tribalism as a reason to create MORE partisanship and tribalism, people should be doing like Flake and Coons to work together. But what has happened? Flake is being crucified and even having his life threatened for it. Kavanaugh is a perfect example of it. You want to say you are independent, but at the same time you are picking sides. If you are really independent you would pick places to support each side on specific issues, not just blame one side for the problems and not the other.

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

so - then you are saying the methods the left is using right now, you're ok with being used against you? if you got partisan out of what he said then all you're saying is the left is doing nothing "wrong" and it must be ok to continue to attack people for their political views.

 

[EverCurious]

This isn't exactly a debate post... Everyone is welcome to whatever opinion and whatever facts they find most compelling.

I am simply asking that folks decide where their principles lay - and to go vote for what they believe in.

And people should vote based on what is best for society as a whole, not what is their party tells them to. Republicans are saying that Democrats are being so hard on Kavanaugh simply because he is being appointed by Trump. That's not true at all. There was no accusations or anything like this AT ALL with Gorsuch. The real issue here is, it's much easier for the Republicans to blame this on partisanship, and use that as a backdoor from the situation and to pump their base, than to take the time to find out if the accusations are true or not. It's plain as day.

Stop trying to insert your context into what I've posted.

This is not about Kavanaugh so much as it is about the foundation principles that the D's just threw away, the "innocent" citizens they destroy, to buy themselves time to gain power/fame/time/whatever.

It very much is. Instead of using partisanship and tribalism as a reason to create MORE partisanship and tribalism, people should be doing like Flake and Coons to work together. But what has happened? Flake is being crucified and even having his life threatened for it. Kavanaugh is a perfect example of it. You want to say you are independent, but at the same time you are picking sides. If you are really independent you would pick places to support each side on specific issues, not just blame one side for the problems and not the other.

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okay I'm a bisexual, agnostic, pro-abortion Republican who fought for SSM rights in Alaska most of her adult life...

 

[iceberg]

And people should vote based on what is best for society as a whole, not what is their party tells them to. Republicans are saying that Democrats are being so hard on Kavanaugh simply because he is being appointed by Trump. That's not true at all. There was no accusations or anything like this AT ALL with Gorsuch. The real issue here is, it's much easier for the Republicans to blame this on partisanship, and use that as a backdoor from the situation and to pump their base, than to take the time to find out if the accusations are true or not. It's plain as day.

Stop trying to insert your context into what I've posted.

This is not about Kavanaugh so much as it is about the foundation principles that the D's just threw away, the "innocent" citizens they destroy, to buy themselves time to gain power/fame/time/whatever.

It very much is. Instead of using partisanship and tribalism as a reason to create MORE partisanship and tribalism, people should be doing like Flake and Coons to work together. But what has happened? Flake is being crucified and even having his life threatened for it. Kavanaugh is a perfect example of it. You want to say you are independent, but at the same time you are picking sides. If you are really independent you would pick places to support each side on specific issues, not just blame one side for the problems and not the other.

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okay I'm a bisexual, agnostic, pro-abortion Republican who fought for SSM rights in Alaska most of her adult life...

alaska? then you've probably been on the part of the dalton highway i was talking about when it was -47 w/wind chill.

cold as hell but man - the northern lights...worth every bone chilling moment. i hope to go back one day and find the nut i froze off while watching it.

 

[Lewdog]

And people should vote based on what is best for society as a whole, not what is their party tells them to. Republicans are saying that Democrats are being so hard on Kavanaugh simply because he is being appointed by Trump. That's not true at all. There was no accusations or anything like this AT ALL with Gorsuch. The real issue here is, it's much easier for the Republicans to blame this on partisanship, and use that as a backdoor from the situation and to pump their base, than to take the time to find out if the accusations are true or not. It's plain as day.

Stop trying to insert your context into what I've posted.

This is not about Kavanaugh so much as it is about the foundation principles that the D's just threw away, the "innocent" citizens they destroy, to buy themselves time to gain power/fame/time/whatever.

It very much is. Instead of using partisanship and tribalism as a reason to create MORE partisanship and tribalism, people should be doing like Flake and Coons to work together. But what has happened? Flake is being crucified and even having his life threatened for it. Kavanaugh is a perfect example of it. You want to say you are independent, but at the same time you are picking sides. If you are really independent you would pick places to support each side on specific issues, not just blame one side for the problems and not the other.

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

so - then you are saying the methods the left is using right now, you're ok with being used against you? if you got partisan out of what he said then all you're saying is the left is doing nothing "wrong" and it must be ok to continue to attack people for their political views.

First off, I'm not on the left, so it wouldn't be used against me. What I'm saying is, right now politics is fucked up and we are admonishing the wrong people, while holding up others that shouldn't be. A great example is McConnell and others not giving Garland a hearing saying it was an election year. Or how McConnell said the Nuclear option should never be used... and now that same man is doing it himself. As you said in another thread, winning isn't using the same weapon against those you are trying to do better than, it's taking the higher ground. McConnell and the Republicans are not doing that... and the Democrats are complicit as well.

Flake and Coons should be praised for working with each other, the same as McCain and Kennedy used to work with each other. They didn't always make the right decisions, but at least they listened to each other.

 

[EverCurious]

Stop trying to insert your context into what I've posted.

This is not about Kavanaugh so much as it is about the foundation principles that the D's just threw away, the "innocent" citizens they destroy, to buy themselves time to gain power/fame/time/whatever.

It very much is. Instead of using partisanship and tribalism as a reason to create MORE partisanship and tribalism, people should be doing like Flake and Coons to work together. But what has happened? Flake is being crucified and even having his life threatened for it. Kavanaugh is a perfect example of it. You want to say you are independent, but at the same time you are picking sides. If you are really independent you would pick places to support each side on specific issues, not just blame one side for the problems and not the other.

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okay I'm a bisexual, agnostic, pro-abortion Republican who fought for SSM rights in Alaska most of her adult life...

alaska? then you've probably been on the part of the dalton highway i was talking about when it was -47 w/wind chill.

cold as hell but man - the northern lights...worth every bone chilling moment. i hope to go back one day and find the nut i froze off while watching it.

Aye, born and raised up here. I tend to stick to Anchortown so it's not as cold. I did do the bathing suit in Fairbanks at -50 picture though

Love the northern lights, I was born under them. The local natives think I can talk to their ancestors cause of the midwife that helped deliver me - I have syn (crossed senses) so I can literally "hear" them...

 

[iceberg]

It very much is. Instead of using partisanship and tribalism as a reason to create MORE partisanship and tribalism, people should be doing like Flake and Coons to work together. But what has happened? Flake is being crucified and even having his life threatened for it. Kavanaugh is a perfect example of it. You want to say you are independent, but at the same time you are picking sides. If you are really independent you would pick places to support each side on specific issues, not just blame one side for the problems and not the other.

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okay I'm a bisexual, agnostic, pro-abortion Republican who fought for SSM rights in Alaska most of her adult life...

alaska? then you've probably been on the part of the dalton highway i was talking about when it was -47 w/wind chill.

cold as hell but man - the northern lights...worth every bone chilling moment. i hope to go back one day and find the nut i froze off while watching it.

Aye, born and raised up here. I tend to stick to Anchortown so it's not as cold. I did do the bathing suit in Fairbanks at -50 picture though

Love the northern lights, I was born under them. The local natives think I can talk to their ancestors cause of the midwife that helped deliver me - I have syn (crossed senses) so I can literally "hear" them...

sweet! love alaksa but not the "reality" shows about it. other than gold rush. those guys crack me up.

when i left my job of 20 years i went to fairbanks just because. very interesting trip and so glad i did it.

 

[Erinwltr]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you.

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Wall of Words. Pass.

condensed version - stop being a dick to everyone and realize how getting what *we* demand for *our* side is killing the country as a whole.

back to candy crush for you now.

I read the comment again and it still is BS. Cleverly disguised rambling propaganda. Quotes of this and that, with conclusions that lead to conspiracy dead ends and caveats of nothing.

well glad you read it.

next up we work on comprehension.

I don't need your help to comprehend and I did indeed read it twice. Guess you missed that part. And it is still a Wall of Words.

 

[EverCurious]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you.

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Wall of Words. Pass.

condensed version - stop being a dick to everyone and realize how getting what *we* demand for *our* side is killing the country as a whole.

back to candy crush for you now.

I read the comment again and it still is BS. Cleverly disguised rambling propaganda. Quotes of this and that, with conclusions that lead to conspiracy dead ends and caveats of nothing.

well glad you read it.

next up we work on comprehension.

I don't need your help to comprehend and I did indeed read it twice. Guess you missed that part. And it is still a Wall of Words.

My apologizes for transcending your personal patience child. When you grow up you'll realize that important things sometimes take more than a few words to discuss.

I might also suggest that a "message board" may not be what you're looking for.

 

[iceberg]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you.

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Wall of Words. Pass.

condensed version - stop being a dick to everyone and realize how getting what *we* demand for *our* side is killing the country as a whole.

back to candy crush for you now.

I read the comment again and it still is BS. Cleverly disguised rambling propaganda. Quotes of this and that, with conclusions that lead to conspiracy dead ends and caveats of nothing.

well glad you read it.

next up we work on comprehension.

I don't need your help to comprehend and I did indeed read it twice. Guess you missed that part. And it is still a Wall of Words.

you need someones help that's for sure.
i wasn't there either time you read it and i'll tell the liberals the same story when they press me for details.
never said it wasn't a wall of words, go back to what i did say about 'em.

night johnboy. you and ignore need to become good friends again.

 

[EverCurious]

You can't see the forest for the trees kido. I haven't picked a political side at all, you just can't get past your partisan hackery to comprehend it.

The only /side/ I have is American justice - the rights of my family to not live in fear of mob rule, domestic terrorism, and the abandonment of those American ideals that have kept this nation free for generations.

I have nothing more to say to you, kindly piss off.

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okay I'm a bisexual, agnostic, pro-abortion Republican who fought for SSM rights in Alaska most of her adult life...

alaska? then you've probably been on the part of the dalton highway i was talking about when it was -47 w/wind chill.

cold as hell but man - the northern lights...worth every bone chilling moment. i hope to go back one day and find the nut i froze off while watching it.

Aye, born and raised up here. I tend to stick to Anchortown so it's not as cold. I did do the bathing suit in Fairbanks at -50 picture though

Love the northern lights, I was born under them. The local natives think I can talk to their ancestors cause of the midwife that helped deliver me - I have syn (crossed senses) so I can literally "hear" them...

sweet! love alaksa but not the "reality" shows about it. other than gold rush. those guys crack me up.

when i left my job of 20 years i went to fairbanks just because. very interesting trip and so glad i did it.

It's beautiful up here, I don't really want to live anywhere else. Unfortunately the knees are starting to really complain about the cold weather. I may end up in the Nevada desert heh

 

[iceberg]

Yes, you clearly have. You've made it quite clear not just here but all over the forum. To call yourself an Independent, then turn around and make very partisan comments two seconds later is hedging your bet. The problem with it, is people can see right through it. You want to blame one side for all the tribalism and partisanship when both are complicit.

Of course you want to tell me to piss off, you don't like people pointing out your hypocrisy.

Okay I'm a bisexual, agnostic, pro-abortion Republican who fought for SSM rights in Alaska most of her adult life...

alaska? then you've probably been on the part of the dalton highway i was talking about when it was -47 w/wind chill.

cold as hell but man - the northern lights...worth every bone chilling moment. i hope to go back one day and find the nut i froze off while watching it.

Aye, born and raised up here. I tend to stick to Anchortown so it's not as cold. I did do the bathing suit in Fairbanks at -50 picture though

Love the northern lights, I was born under them. The local natives think I can talk to their ancestors cause of the midwife that helped deliver me - I have syn (crossed senses) so I can literally "hear" them...

sweet! love alaksa but not the "reality" shows about it. other than gold rush. those guys crack me up.

when i left my job of 20 years i went to fairbanks just because. very interesting trip and so glad i did it.

It's beautiful up here, I don't really want to live anywhere else. Unfortunately the knees are starting to really complain about the cold weather. I may end up in the Nevada desert heh

taking the highway to the arctic circle was surreal. one minute there are trees all over covered in snow. next minute you may as well be on mars. but covered in snow.

 

[toobfreak]

Secondly, if we do dodge a bullet on Kavanaugh, the hearing exposed that he is not as non-partisan as a judge is supposed to be. He has a true hatred of the left, .

Talking out of your ass as usual. Let's be MORE clear on a couple of things, it isn't hatred to admit you are being targeted unfairly and that is without a doubt the fact here. This is about destroying Kavanaugh, stopping a conservative appointment, not the integrity of the court. If the Left is so concerned for integrity, where was it when they defended and applauded Bill Clinton for multiple rapes, for Hillary's then destruction of several women's lives, for her heinous disregard for national security and the law as Sect. of State, not to mention many things Obama did? We couldn't find their concern through all of that with a magnifying glass and a pair of tweezers.

Even Ford, they were so concerned for her virtue that they sat on her allegations for MONTHS.

Second, being a judge is not about being non-partisan, if it were, why aren't you hounding after Ruth Bader Ginsberg and her HIGHLY partisan statements made just a year ago that brings to question her ability to even do her job? The fact that the old bag has stated that she's hanging on into her 90s not out of concern for the law but to try to hope she's not replaced with a conservative? She has CLEARLY demonstrated a unilateral partisanship in her many decisions over the years; the making of a good justice isn't whether their personal feelings are straight down the middle, which they never are, the making of a good justice is a person who can put personal feelings aside and rule BASED PURELY ON THE LAWS involved.

The fact that Kavanaugh has, better than 92% of the time in all his dealings with the SC been AGREED WITH by that same body shows that he IS a good judge. The only bullet to be dodged here is having an exceptional and irreplaceable justice lost and destroyed in the public's zeal to put political circus before reason, and to destroy a sterling man's career where no crime is known to have even occurred much less proven, just for the false appearance of "sensitivity" towards women.

 

[MarathonMike]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you. [EDIT - note, if you're a partisan hack, this post probably doesn't apply to you heh]

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Excellent post. Of course Liberals are totally fine with destroying a man and his family for perceived political gain. They are totally fine with throwing the foundation of our justice system out the window. They use weak technicalities to hide their shame like "Oh it's not a real trial so it's cool to assassinate a man's character in front of the whole world". This week has disgusted me more than any other, it just shows how far the Democrats have sunk and how divided we are. That is WAY not good for America.

I'm also not to pleased with the D's pushing the bullshit that "Roe vs Wade" is about "women's rights," much less that Kavanaugh was most definitely going to take that away from them. This whole case against Kavanaugh is a shame, it's a bald faced lie from "leaders" who have zero interest in anything but their own gains - be that power, money, reelection, or whatever they strive for. It's disgusting.

I think if you asked the average Liberal on the street what scares you about Brett Kavanaugh it would be 'losing abortion rights'. If you then asked how specifically Kavanaugh could take those rights away, you would get the deer in the headlights stare. You have Democrats playing on people's pure emotion and counting on their ignorance.

i have done just this many times. once you get past the bullet points the dems put out, they've got nothing.

friends at work were talking and as i walked by one said "well he came off kinda angry..." and when i asked who, he said kavanaugh. i said "gee, i wonder why" and just left. but those i've asked quickly say he's going to overturn roe vs wade and i ask "how" and the stuttering begins. they seem to be able to understand what he will do but seriously lack the knowledge of *how* he could pull it off.

this is what is trying to decide our future right now.

For God's sakes they accused a good man of running a drug/rape ring while he was in high school and he's supposed to calmly discuss how they have destroyed the reputation he has spent a lifetime building? Not to mention what his family is being put through? Have people lost their minds?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm bisexual

Why the fuck does that matter? Why do you fags think playing in the poop chute entitles you to unique consideration?

When was the last time you saw a straight person mention their sexuality as some kind of qualification?


Asshat

 

[Freiheit]

I don't give a tinkers damn about your sexuality. Your desire for freedom is what I want to know about. Small, very limited government kind of freedom.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm bisexual

Why the fuck does that matter? Why do you fags think playing in the poop chute entitles you to unique consideration?

When was the last time you saw a straight person mention their sexuality as some kind of qualification?


Asshat

hmm not into anal so no poop chutes with me thanks.

Hey I was just laying out my political leanings kido, no need to get bent over it. ~shrug~

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm bisexual

Why the fuck does that matter? Why do you fags think playing in the poop chute entitles you to unique consideration?

When was the last time you saw a straight person mention their sexuality as some kind of qualification?


Asshat

hmm not into anal so no poop chutes with me thanks.

Hey I was just laying out my political leanings kido, no need to get bent over it. ~shrug~

Being a fag is not a political leaning ya moron. It is your lifestyle choice and COMPLETELY irrelevant to anything to do with politics.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

For those of you who may have missed my prior posts, I have been an independent my entire life, (voting nearly 30 years now.) If one looks at my sig they'll note where I lay on various political metrics. In general I refer to myself as a capitalist classical liberal; I'm bisexual, pro-choice, national capitalistic.

If you are in the "political situation" where you've kind of always had to essentially make concessions about what you believe in when you vote this message probably applies to you. [EDIT - note, if you're a partisan hack, this post probably doesn't apply to you heh]

We need to talk about what just happened with the Kavanaugh thing; the /principle/ of it. The D's could have started privately investigating this Ford case in July - they could have saved both Ford and Kavanaugh from the vitriol of making this case public and gotten to the /truth/ without all the hyperbolic bullshit. They /intentionally/ chose to destroy the lives and families of two people /simply/ to retain control of the SCOTUS at best, at worst they did it simply to "resist" the president.

A bit of an aside on Trump here; regardless of if you happen to like Trumps politics, as reasonable non-partisan's we know that Trump was chosen by the people and that there was no vote interference or anything that makes his election invalid, even at best - arguing that there were Russian ad campaigns - folks make their choice without anyone forcing them into it. Even if we want to entertain that "Russian's mislead the people with false claims and lies" that is certainly nothing new in politics, and effectually no different than the misleading and lies told by our own politicians of their opponents. The people voted of their own volition and Trump won.

Back to the Kavanaugh thing. So I didn't particularly care if he made it onto the SCOTUS honestly. I'm not a "fan" of him, he's got some rulings in the past I do not like; for example, the Patriot Act, the NSA recording and collecting all those phone calls - I was never entirely satisfied with the argument that "national security" is a good enough reason to invade the privacy of innocent American's without reason and necessity, even if I do recognize that it was/did indeed catch/stop terrorists. It was kind of one of those border-line issues for me where I wasn't quite feeling that the ends justified the means.

That's kind of what I want to talk about with you though, that "the ends justifying the means" thing...

What we just witnessed was the destruction of some very fundamental principles of America; innocent until proven guilty, guilt my mere accusation, and a complete discard of logical "credibility" and the "ends" part, keeping SCOTUS power or resisting Trump or whatever the hell was motivating the D's to discard those principles, and those two peoples lives/honor/etc, quite simply does /not/ justify the means in any way, shape, or form.

I am literally sick to my stomach. This past year has shown the most ridiculous and disgusting display of partisan hackery I've ever witnessed. Worse, this time, it's not the bumbling sheep followers, it's the fucking leaders who have completely abandoned, nay, in fact, spit in the face of, justice and all that is "right" for free American's.

We have witnessed these "leaders" /allowing/ physical violence against their political rivals - not the politicians who one could argue put themselves in the proverbial ring and open themselves up to nutcases, but THE FUCKING CITIZENS who's only "crime" is going to a political rally.

We have witnessed these "leaders" ACTIVELY CALLING for those attacks on INNOCENT CITIZENS who's only "crime" is taking a job with political opposition.

And yesterday, we learned that we have witnessed these "leaders" abandon the core values of this nation; that a man, who's only "crime" is being nominated to the SCOTUS by the president, and/or a woman, who's only "crime' was thinking/believing she was sexually assaulted, should /both/ be utterly destroyed simply to buy these "leaders" time...


This is no longer "politics as usual" and this cannot stand. (I have a husband, four sons, and likely grandsons some day that I'm thinking about here.)

I know our kind sometimes blows off mid-terms as "less important," but we really need to vote this time and as always, we must look at the whole picture when we do so.

And when you do vote, I ask that you ask yourself; what means justify what ends...

Obama's amazing abuse of power and Hillary's epic corruption are the types of things that will destroy our country.