CDZ Feminism promotes prostitution?

[Spare_change]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

Quit whining ... if you don't want the job, don't sign up for it.

Who is whining, sweetie?

The "woe is me" feminist crowd that constantly complains about how difficult their life is. When they got married, they knew what they were signing up for - and now they want to complain, not because they're surprised, but because it brings them attention and sympathy from their sisters.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Now that the thread has descended into misogyny it is obvious that the OP question has an answer. NO.

 

[Disir]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

Quit whining ... if you don't want the job, don't sign up for it.

Who is whining, sweetie?

The "woe is me" feminist crowd that constantly complains about how difficult their life is. When they got married, they knew what they were signing up for - and now they want to complain, not because they're surprised, but because it brings them attention and sympathy from their sisters.

I haven't seen that on this thread.

 

[Disir]

A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.5
Record Share of Americans Have Never Married

Number of people never married not sure and definitely don't want to be married is rising.

By the way, women cheat almost as much as men. It is emotional.

And for women it is a biological need. Welcome to the world of oxytocin
The orgasmic history of Oxycontin: Love, lust, and labor

More recently there has been attempts to tie vasopressin to women that cheat.

I agree with the survey, but for a different reason.

Yes, it's true the number of people who want to be married, has gone down. And to me, it's pretty obvious why. And I've actually heard a few honest men admit openly why.

What did I say before about why men get married? For sex. It may not be the only thing.... but it is by far the primary reason.

Based on that, if the man can get sex without getting married.... why would he get married?

Today in Western culture, women are really easy. I have personally had at least 3 offers, and that's without looking for them. Now if a Zero like me, can have women soliciting... that is a clear sign that standards are low.

And I've heard from men directly, why get married? I'm getting what I want from her, so why bother?

In fact, it's interesting, I have two co-workers that are getting married in the next few months. One is a girl, and she's been living with this dude for years and years. She's having panic attacks because while this is important to her, he (the guy she's marrying), couldn't care less. He's not going to pay for the wedding, not going to plan for the wedding, doesn't want to take work off for the wedding, even suggested postponing the wedding for a company trip. Completely indifferent. Doesn't matter to him at all. By the way, she, asked him, to marry her.

Now the other is a guy. He asked her to marry him. He planned it. He saved money for it. He's is actually taking a new job, that pays more, specifically for this purpose. He's eager to get married, and is looking forward to it.

She can't understand why this guy who hasn't lived with this girl for any time at all, is interested in getting married, but her guy that she has lived with for years, isn't interested at all.

To me this is obvious. Because he's not getting anything, so he's interested in getting married. Her guy is getting everything. So why bother getting married?

Women today give themselves to guys so easily and so often, that to the average American male, marriage doesn't have any meaning. After a women gives him sex, and after they give him their time, and relationship... what more can a women give him that would make him interested in getting married?

As for why women don't want to bother getting married, it's usually from the negative experience sleeping around with men who they are not married to. They bounce around from one lover to another, thinking that each one will be dedicated to them. Of course they run off with someone else, so they assume marriage is the same.

In reality, marriage is the best way to have a man be dedicated to you. Not getting married is almost a guarantee he won't be.

And I think this dynamic spills over to marriage too. I think far fewer people would ditch their spouses, if they couldn't find someone else. Why does a man ditch his wife, and divorce her? Because in today's culture he can find someone else by the end of the night.

That is one of the reasons that is often cited for men not getting married. Right up there with having to give up space, loss of friends and what is viewed as loss of power and.........paperwork. Men in the media are depicted as oafs. This is not a valued position. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.


Oddly enough you are wrong on why women choose not to get married and have children. They don't want to get married and have children because the world is awesome and to be explored, they watch others get married because they are afraid of being alone, and there are options. In fact, guys are a dime a dozen if that is what you're looking for. What you have depicted as married life is absolute misery. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.

I trust this means you aren't married, and are desperately trying to rationalize your position.

Why would I need to rationalize it and to whom would I need to rationalize it to?

You are not the Holy Grail, dude. I can go anywhere and do anything I want and I do. I have a range of interests that I pursue.

 

[danielpalos]

With recourse to unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States, Persons would have more options.

 

[Andylusion]

There is a theory I've read, that the more choices a person has, the less happy they can be. But it's a good thing, because it is a sign of participating fully in the human struggle for growth and meaning, rather than unquestioningly fulfilling what've others tell you is your biological destiny.

My own personal happiness has had its ups and downs, but I take solace in the fact that I can choose my destiny.

I still don't the talk about choice. I don't see where I've ever advocated that we turn any human being into a slave, where we dictate their choices in life.

My entire point is that people are making bad choices.

We all have tons of choices. What we don't have is choice in what the consequences for our choices are.

I can choose to eat only chocolate cake for breakfast lunch and dinner. It's my choice. There is nothing anyone can do to stop me. I have that right. You can't dictate my life.

But just because I have that right, and I have that choice, and I have the freedom to make those choices.... the one thing I don't have, is the ability to determine the consequences for those choices.

I don't have the ability to choose that eating chocolate cake three times a day, doesn't make me fat. Doesn't rot out my teeth. Doesn't cause me to have diabetes.

I can also choose to borrow money. Take out a bunch of credit cards and buy tons of stuff. Buy a car I can't afford on credit. Buy a house I can't afford on a mortgage. I have that right. I have that choice. None of you can stop me from doing any of that.

What I don't get to choose, is being highly in debt, having massive payments I can't make, having the stress and anxity of all of that, getting the car repo'd, the house foreclosed, and ending up in bankruptcy, wage garnishments, and liens on whatever is left.

Now we all seem to understand these concepts when it comes to health and money.

For some reason when it comes to relationships, we seem to want to live obliviously, like suddenly actions and consequences are non-existent. Where we can starve out our spouse, and never have a consequence to pay. It's not true. There is a consequence to starving out your spouse. The article shows that.

 

[Andylusion]

A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.5
Record Share of Americans Have Never Married

Number of people never married not sure and definitely don't want to be married is rising.

By the way, women cheat almost as much as men. It is emotional.

And for women it is a biological need. Welcome to the world of oxytocin
The orgasmic history of Oxycontin: Love, lust, and labor

More recently there has been attempts to tie vasopressin to women that cheat.

I agree with the survey, but for a different reason.

Yes, it's true the number of people who want to be married, has gone down. And to me, it's pretty obvious why. And I've actually heard a few honest men admit openly why.

What did I say before about why men get married? For sex. It may not be the only thing.... but it is by far the primary reason.

Based on that, if the man can get sex without getting married.... why would he get married?

Today in Western culture, women are really easy. I have personally had at least 3 offers, and that's without looking for them. Now if a Zero like me, can have women soliciting... that is a clear sign that standards are low.

And I've heard from men directly, why get married? I'm getting what I want from her, so why bother?

In fact, it's interesting, I have two co-workers that are getting married in the next few months. One is a girl, and she's been living with this dude for years and years. She's having panic attacks because while this is important to her, he (the guy she's marrying), couldn't care less. He's not going to pay for the wedding, not going to plan for the wedding, doesn't want to take work off for the wedding, even suggested postponing the wedding for a company trip. Completely indifferent. Doesn't matter to him at all. By the way, she, asked him, to marry her.

Now the other is a guy. He asked her to marry him. He planned it. He saved money for it. He's is actually taking a new job, that pays more, specifically for this purpose. He's eager to get married, and is looking forward to it.

She can't understand why this guy who hasn't lived with this girl for any time at all, is interested in getting married, but her guy that she has lived with for years, isn't interested at all.

To me this is obvious. Because he's not getting anything, so he's interested in getting married. Her guy is getting everything. So why bother getting married?

Women today give themselves to guys so easily and so often, that to the average American male, marriage doesn't have any meaning. After a women gives him sex, and after they give him their time, and relationship... what more can a women give him that would make him interested in getting married?

As for why women don't want to bother getting married, it's usually from the negative experience sleeping around with men who they are not married to. They bounce around from one lover to another, thinking that each one will be dedicated to them. Of course they run off with someone else, so they assume marriage is the same.

In reality, marriage is the best way to have a man be dedicated to you. Not getting married is almost a guarantee he won't be.

And I think this dynamic spills over to marriage too. I think far fewer people would ditch their spouses, if they couldn't find someone else. Why does a man ditch his wife, and divorce her? Because in today's culture he can find someone else by the end of the night.

That is one of the reasons that is often cited for men not getting married. Right up there with having to give up space, loss of friends and what is viewed as loss of power and.........paperwork. Men in the media are depicted as oafs. This is not a valued position. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.


Oddly enough you are wrong on why women choose not to get married and have children. They don't want to get married and have children because the world is awesome and to be explored, they watch others get married because they are afraid of being alone, and there are options. In fact, guys are a dime a dozen if that is what you're looking for. What you have depicted as married life is absolute misery. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.

You know, I heard that claim before too. I've heard some women say exactly what you just said "because the world is awesome and to be explored".

I actually heard that from a friend of mine. She gave me this long list of all the amazing things she wanted to do, and she didn't want to get married because she wanted to do all these things.

So I was curious about this. We have been friends for several years, and we talked openly. So I decided to ask her about this. What have you done so far? I was expecting the tales of her adventures. Instead she talked about getting a job, and working. Where have you gone? Well I don't have time, and I need to keep working at my career. Well how many years have you been doing this? 10 years.

So she has remained single, for the last 10 years, working a steady job, never having the time in 10 years apparently to do anything, hasn't gone anywhere, and all she does is play video games and go to work.

Of course the punchline of this story is, roughly 6 months later after this conversation, she came on saying she got married, and they were going on a trip to the Bahamas. And that has been my experience numerous times. I think I've met only one girl that was single, and actually went everywhere and did stuff. One.

All the rest have had stories like the above. They say they want to be single to do all these amazing things... but then they end up just working a job, living alone, and doing nothing. Just saying.... that's what I've seen.

Really? Of the women I know they travel frequently and do a great many things. Perhaps, it's the job? I work in a pretty demanding field that many people can't do. So, getting away is imperative. Hell, I worked with a nurse that would use all of her vacation time traveling to Central and South America bringing medical supplies and doing the same thing she did at work. Made no sense to me but that was her thang. That and hanging out in New Orleans. I have also met women who are terrified of the interstate. Perhaps it's the person?

Like I said, it's just been my experience. One thing I always do, is ask people if they really are happy. Is this life they now have that they always wanted, really as great as they expected? That's when the truth comes out.

But I accept that you say those you are around are happy with their life choices. Even then I always wonder about such people, because 10 or 20 years down the line, when all the hope of having a real marriage and a real family are past, do they really end up saying it was worth it. When they reach their final years, and they either have no kids, or they spent so much time at work their kids are completely disconnected to them, and they have no husband of course, and most of their friends have move on to their own families.... was that career really worth everything?

It's funny because for decades in American history, it was wives begging their husbands not to be workaholics, and end up at the end of their lives finding no one cared for them.

Now women do the exact same thing, to a larger degree.

It's just like that survey from before showed... single professional women without kids are the most unhappy workers in the entire country.

 

[ricechickie]

There is a theory I've read, that the more choices a person has, the less happy they can be. But it's a good thing, because it is a sign of participating fully in the human struggle for growth and meaning, rather than unquestioningly fulfilling what've others tell you is your biological destiny.

My own personal happiness has had its ups and downs, but I take solace in the fact that I can choose my destiny.

I still don't the talk about choice. I don't see where I've ever advocated that we turn any human being into a slave, where we dictate their choices in life.

My entire point is that people are making bad choices.

We all have tons of choices. What we don't have is choice in what the consequences for our choices are.

I can choose to eat only chocolate cake for breakfast lunch and dinner. It's my choice. There is nothing anyone can do to stop me. I have that right. You can't dictate my life.

But just because I have that right, and I have that choice, and I have the freedom to make those choices.... the one thing I don't have, is the ability to determine the consequences for those choices.

I don't have the ability to choose that eating chocolate cake three times a day, doesn't make me fat. Doesn't rot out my teeth. Doesn't cause me to have diabetes.

I can also choose to borrow money. Take out a bunch of credit cards and buy tons of stuff. Buy a car I can't afford on credit. Buy a house I can't afford on a mortgage. I have that right. I have that choice. None of you can stop me from doing any of that.

What I don't get to choose, is being highly in debt, having massive payments I can't make, having the stress and anxity of all of that, getting the car repo'd, the house foreclosed, and ending up in bankruptcy, wage garnishments, and liens on whatever is left.

Now we all seem to understand these concepts when it comes to health and money.

For some reason when it comes to relationships, we seem to want to live obliviously, like suddenly actions and consequences are non-existent. Where we can starve out our spouse, and never have a consequence to pay. It's not true. There is a consequence to starving out your spouse. The article shows that.

I feel like you've missed the point. Let's take your chocolate cake example. If no such thing as chocolate cake existed, and the only food available was the healthy stuff we need to live, then there would be no internal struggle about the right thing to eat. People who have to make choices always need to balance out what they want vs. what is good for them.

A man needs to decide if it's really healthy for him to screw around on his wife. Does that make him a good husband in the long run? Or will he come to dislike himself for not being faithful? Undoubtedly, it feels good at the moment.

That's the theory I read about, anyway. The struggle of making mature choices don't always give us instant gratification "happiness," but perhaps a deeper feeling of satisfaction for doing the right thing.

 

[Andylusion]

There is a theory I've read, that the more choices a person has, the less happy they can be. But it's a good thing, because it is a sign of participating fully in the human struggle for growth and meaning, rather than unquestioningly fulfilling what've others tell you is your biological destiny.

My own personal happiness has had its ups and downs, but I take solace in the fact that I can choose my destiny.

I still don't the talk about choice. I don't see where I've ever advocated that we turn any human being into a slave, where we dictate their choices in life.

My entire point is that people are making bad choices.

We all have tons of choices. What we don't have is choice in what the consequences for our choices are.

I can choose to eat only chocolate cake for breakfast lunch and dinner. It's my choice. There is nothing anyone can do to stop me. I have that right. You can't dictate my life.

But just because I have that right, and I have that choice, and I have the freedom to make those choices.... the one thing I don't have, is the ability to determine the consequences for those choices.

I don't have the ability to choose that eating chocolate cake three times a day, doesn't make me fat. Doesn't rot out my teeth. Doesn't cause me to have diabetes.

I can also choose to borrow money. Take out a bunch of credit cards and buy tons of stuff. Buy a car I can't afford on credit. Buy a house I can't afford on a mortgage. I have that right. I have that choice. None of you can stop me from doing any of that.

What I don't get to choose, is being highly in debt, having massive payments I can't make, having the stress and anxity of all of that, getting the car repo'd, the house foreclosed, and ending up in bankruptcy, wage garnishments, and liens on whatever is left.

Now we all seem to understand these concepts when it comes to health and money.

For some reason when it comes to relationships, we seem to want to live obliviously, like suddenly actions and consequences are non-existent. Where we can starve out our spouse, and never have a consequence to pay. It's not true. There is a consequence to starving out your spouse. The article shows that.

I feel like you've missed the point. Let's take your chocolate cake example. If no such thing as chocolate cake existed, and the only food available was the healthy stuff we need to live, then there would be no internal struggle about the right thing to eat. People who have to make choices always need to balance out what they want vs. what is good for them.

A man needs to decide if it's really healthy for him to screw around on his wife. Does that make him a good husband in the long run? Or will he come to dislike himself for not being faithful? Undoubtedly, it feels good at the moment.

That's the theory I read about, anyway. The struggle of making mature choices don't always give us instant gratification "happiness," but perhaps a deeper feeling of satisfaction for doing the right thing.

I'm going to answer this honestly. Yes, he'll feel better, and in some cases be a better husband. His marriage may actually end up being better... in the short term at least.

Now, let me stop..... First lets identify what men we're talking about. If you mean a man whose wife is dedicated, and providing for his needs, and he in a moment of weakness runs off with some bimbo.... no.

That man will be internally conflicted. He will feel guilty and it will ruin himself, and his marriage, and so on.

But that isn't' the type of man that I am talking about in this thread. I'm talking about the kind of man that is dedicated to his wife, and his wife is starving him out. She doesn't provide for his needs.

That man.... when he goes to the escort or prostitute, will not feel guilty at all. Because internally he knows that he did all he could to make his marriage work, and she simply refused. So he got his needs met by another women. Often these men feel absolutely nothing bad about their actions.

And ironically, many times their home lives improve. Often these men have been arguing and asking and begging for physical attention from their spouse, and it is source of constant strain and tension in the home. When these men have their needs met, although from a different person, suddenly the arguing and constant tension stops. Now the home is peaceful.

I've heard from several women that "well I thought we had fixed everything! The last 6 months have been so nice!", and then they find out he is divorcing, or has a lover, or is visiting escorts. Men generally speaking, when they have this need in their life met, tend to be nicer, and friendlier, and happier.

In fact I would warn all married women, be very careful if you find your home has tension over sex, and then suddenly it all disappears and he's magically happy again. That's a bad sign, when your husband isn't hassling you for sex anymore. The majority of the time, that means someone else is meeting that need.

And lastly you mention "in the long run"... Did you read the post by the other man here? A marriage without sex, simply isn't a marriage.

So if the marriage breaks down, and he ends up divorced... what has he really lost? A women that refused to be a wife? What has he really lost? Nothing. He'll find someone else, that meets his needs.

Nothing to lose, everything to gain. Now again, if you want to moralize it, I agree it's wrong. Man should stay faithful to his wife, I agree. Man shouldn't visit prostitutes and escorts, I agree.

But what I'm saying is the reality, regardless of our moralizing. A man has needs that need to be met, and the way he does that throughout human history is marriage. If he gets married and the women refuses to meet those needs, there's no point in being married. That sexual need, is the reason a man gets married. It just is.

 

[Spare_change]

A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.5
Record Share of Americans Have Never Married

Number of people never married not sure and definitely don't want to be married is rising.

By the way, women cheat almost as much as men. It is emotional.

And for women it is a biological need. Welcome to the world of oxytocin
The orgasmic history of Oxycontin: Love, lust, and labor

More recently there has been attempts to tie vasopressin to women that cheat.

I agree with the survey, but for a different reason.

Yes, it's true the number of people who want to be married, has gone down. And to me, it's pretty obvious why. And I've actually heard a few honest men admit openly why.

What did I say before about why men get married? For sex. It may not be the only thing.... but it is by far the primary reason.

Based on that, if the man can get sex without getting married.... why would he get married?

Today in Western culture, women are really easy. I have personally had at least 3 offers, and that's without looking for them. Now if a Zero like me, can have women soliciting... that is a clear sign that standards are low.

And I've heard from men directly, why get married? I'm getting what I want from her, so why bother?

In fact, it's interesting, I have two co-workers that are getting married in the next few months. One is a girl, and she's been living with this dude for years and years. She's having panic attacks because while this is important to her, he (the guy she's marrying), couldn't care less. He's not going to pay for the wedding, not going to plan for the wedding, doesn't want to take work off for the wedding, even suggested postponing the wedding for a company trip. Completely indifferent. Doesn't matter to him at all. By the way, she, asked him, to marry her.

Now the other is a guy. He asked her to marry him. He planned it. He saved money for it. He's is actually taking a new job, that pays more, specifically for this purpose. He's eager to get married, and is looking forward to it.

She can't understand why this guy who hasn't lived with this girl for any time at all, is interested in getting married, but her guy that she has lived with for years, isn't interested at all.

To me this is obvious. Because he's not getting anything, so he's interested in getting married. Her guy is getting everything. So why bother getting married?

Women today give themselves to guys so easily and so often, that to the average American male, marriage doesn't have any meaning. After a women gives him sex, and after they give him their time, and relationship... what more can a women give him that would make him interested in getting married?

As for why women don't want to bother getting married, it's usually from the negative experience sleeping around with men who they are not married to. They bounce around from one lover to another, thinking that each one will be dedicated to them. Of course they run off with someone else, so they assume marriage is the same.

In reality, marriage is the best way to have a man be dedicated to you. Not getting married is almost a guarantee he won't be.

And I think this dynamic spills over to marriage too. I think far fewer people would ditch their spouses, if they couldn't find someone else. Why does a man ditch his wife, and divorce her? Because in today's culture he can find someone else by the end of the night.

That is one of the reasons that is often cited for men not getting married. Right up there with having to give up space, loss of friends and what is viewed as loss of power and.........paperwork. Men in the media are depicted as oafs. This is not a valued position. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.


Oddly enough you are wrong on why women choose not to get married and have children. They don't want to get married and have children because the world is awesome and to be explored, they watch others get married because they are afraid of being alone, and there are options. In fact, guys are a dime a dozen if that is what you're looking for. What you have depicted as married life is absolute misery. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.

I trust this means you aren't married, and are desperately trying to rationalize your position.

Why would I need to rationalize it and to whom would I need to rationalize it to?

You are not the Holy Grail, dude. I can go anywhere and do anything I want and I do. I have a range of interests that I pursue.

You need only rationalize to yourself ... which, I must admit, your post does a fine job.

 

[Spare_change]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

Quit whining ... if you don't want the job, don't sign up for it.

Who is whining, sweetie?

The "woe is me" feminist crowd that constantly complains about how difficult their life is. When they got married, they knew what they were signing up for - and now they want to complain, not because they're surprised, but because it brings them attention and sympathy from their sisters.

I haven't seen that on this thread.

Then, I seriously suggest you go back and actually read the posts.

 

[Spare_change]

Now that the thread has descended into misogyny it is obvious that the OP question has an answer. NO.

Exactly when did honesty get labeled misogyny??

 

[Disir]

A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.5
Record Share of Americans Have Never Married

Number of people never married not sure and definitely don't want to be married is rising.

By the way, women cheat almost as much as men. It is emotional.

And for women it is a biological need. Welcome to the world of oxytocin
The orgasmic history of Oxycontin: Love, lust, and labor

More recently there has been attempts to tie vasopressin to women that cheat.

I agree with the survey, but for a different reason.

Yes, it's true the number of people who want to be married, has gone down. And to me, it's pretty obvious why. And I've actually heard a few honest men admit openly why.

What did I say before about why men get married? For sex. It may not be the only thing.... but it is by far the primary reason.

Based on that, if the man can get sex without getting married.... why would he get married?

Today in Western culture, women are really easy. I have personally had at least 3 offers, and that's without looking for them. Now if a Zero like me, can have women soliciting... that is a clear sign that standards are low.

And I've heard from men directly, why get married? I'm getting what I want from her, so why bother?

In fact, it's interesting, I have two co-workers that are getting married in the next few months. One is a girl, and she's been living with this dude for years and years. She's having panic attacks because while this is important to her, he (the guy she's marrying), couldn't care less. He's not going to pay for the wedding, not going to plan for the wedding, doesn't want to take work off for the wedding, even suggested postponing the wedding for a company trip. Completely indifferent. Doesn't matter to him at all. By the way, she, asked him, to marry her.

Now the other is a guy. He asked her to marry him. He planned it. He saved money for it. He's is actually taking a new job, that pays more, specifically for this purpose. He's eager to get married, and is looking forward to it.

She can't understand why this guy who hasn't lived with this girl for any time at all, is interested in getting married, but her guy that she has lived with for years, isn't interested at all.

To me this is obvious. Because he's not getting anything, so he's interested in getting married. Her guy is getting everything. So why bother getting married?

Women today give themselves to guys so easily and so often, that to the average American male, marriage doesn't have any meaning. After a women gives him sex, and after they give him their time, and relationship... what more can a women give him that would make him interested in getting married?

As for why women don't want to bother getting married, it's usually from the negative experience sleeping around with men who they are not married to. They bounce around from one lover to another, thinking that each one will be dedicated to them. Of course they run off with someone else, so they assume marriage is the same.

In reality, marriage is the best way to have a man be dedicated to you. Not getting married is almost a guarantee he won't be.

And I think this dynamic spills over to marriage too. I think far fewer people would ditch their spouses, if they couldn't find someone else. Why does a man ditch his wife, and divorce her? Because in today's culture he can find someone else by the end of the night.

That is one of the reasons that is often cited for men not getting married. Right up there with having to give up space, loss of friends and what is viewed as loss of power and.........paperwork. Men in the media are depicted as oafs. This is not a valued position. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.


Oddly enough you are wrong on why women choose not to get married and have children. They don't want to get married and have children because the world is awesome and to be explored, they watch others get married because they are afraid of being alone, and there are options. In fact, guys are a dime a dozen if that is what you're looking for. What you have depicted as married life is absolute misery. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.

You know, I heard that claim before too. I've heard some women say exactly what you just said "because the world is awesome and to be explored".

I actually heard that from a friend of mine. She gave me this long list of all the amazing things she wanted to do, and she didn't want to get married because she wanted to do all these things.

So I was curious about this. We have been friends for several years, and we talked openly. So I decided to ask her about this. What have you done so far? I was expecting the tales of her adventures. Instead she talked about getting a job, and working. Where have you gone? Well I don't have time, and I need to keep working at my career. Well how many years have you been doing this? 10 years.

So she has remained single, for the last 10 years, working a steady job, never having the time in 10 years apparently to do anything, hasn't gone anywhere, and all she does is play video games and go to work.

Of course the punchline of this story is, roughly 6 months later after this conversation, she came on saying she got married, and they were going on a trip to the Bahamas. And that has been my experience numerous times. I think I've met only one girl that was single, and actually went everywhere and did stuff. One.

All the rest have had stories like the above. They say they want to be single to do all these amazing things... but then they end up just working a job, living alone, and doing nothing. Just saying.... that's what I've seen.

Really? Of the women I know they travel frequently and do a great many things. Perhaps, it's the job? I work in a pretty demanding field that many people can't do. So, getting away is imperative. Hell, I worked with a nurse that would use all of her vacation time traveling to Central and South America bringing medical supplies and doing the same thing she did at work. Made no sense to me but that was her thang. That and hanging out in New Orleans. I have also met women who are terrified of the interstate. Perhaps it's the person?

Like I said, it's just been my experience. One thing I always do, is ask people if they really are happy. Is this life they now have that they always wanted, really as great as they expected? That's when the truth comes out.

But I accept that you say those you are around are happy with their life choices. Even then I always wonder about such people, because 10 or 20 years down the line, when all the hope of having a real marriage and a real family are past, do they really end up saying it was worth it. When they reach their final years, and they either have no kids, or they spent so much time at work their kids are completely disconnected to them, and they have no husband of course, and most of their friends have move on to their own families.... was that career really worth everything?

It's funny because for decades in American history, it was wives begging their husbands not to be workaholics, and end up at the end of their lives finding no one cared for them.

Now women do the exact same thing, to a larger degree.

It's just like that survey from before showed... single professional women without kids are the most unhappy workers in the entire country.

I have heard some Boomers say they regret not having children in their little 3 paragraphs of Huffington Post crap. So BUT, I have heard an equal amount of regret from people who married and had kids. They will tell you straight up that they were too selfish and should never have taken that on. Men and women equally.

Every so many years somebody kicks out a whose happier survey. Never mind the fact that emotions cannot be quantified.
Older women happier? Yep.
No Groom, No Gloom: Never-Married Women Just as Happy

Single women happier? Yep.
Why single ladies (and men, too!) might be happier

Widows happier? Yep.
Single women are healthier and happier than married women - and it's no surprise

Married women happier? Yep.
Why Married Women Are Happier Than Single Women

According to all of these surveys, everybody is happier than everyone else.

I have no regrets. Of my closest friends, if they have regrets they aren't sharing them.

 

[Disir]

You need only rationalize to yourself ... which, I must admit, your post does a fine job.

Let me look here. Nope, not giving a damn what you think.

Then, I seriously suggest you go back and actually read the posts.

You're trolling. This is me, still not caring.

 

[Spare_change]

You need only rationalize to yourself ... which, I must admit, your post does a fine job.

Let me look here. Nope, not giving a damn what you think.

Then, I seriously suggest you go back and actually read the posts.

You're trolling. This is me, still not caring.

As you will ... but I don't believe a damn word of it.

I agree with the survey, but for a different reason.

Yes, it's true the number of people who want to be married, has gone down. And to me, it's pretty obvious why. And I've actually heard a few honest men admit openly why.

What did I say before about why men get married? For sex. It may not be the only thing.... but it is by far the primary reason.

Based on that, if the man can get sex without getting married.... why would he get married?

Today in Western culture, women are really easy. I have personally had at least 3 offers, and that's without looking for them. Now if a Zero like me, can have women soliciting... that is a clear sign that standards are low.

And I've heard from men directly, why get married? I'm getting what I want from her, so why bother?

In fact, it's interesting, I have two co-workers that are getting married in the next few months. One is a girl, and she's been living with this dude for years and years. She's having panic attacks because while this is important to her, he (the guy she's marrying), couldn't care less. He's not going to pay for the wedding, not going to plan for the wedding, doesn't want to take work off for the wedding, even suggested postponing the wedding for a company trip. Completely indifferent. Doesn't matter to him at all. By the way, she, asked him, to marry her.

Now the other is a guy. He asked her to marry him. He planned it. He saved money for it. He's is actually taking a new job, that pays more, specifically for this purpose. He's eager to get married, and is looking forward to it.

She can't understand why this guy who hasn't lived with this girl for any time at all, is interested in getting married, but her guy that she has lived with for years, isn't interested at all.

To me this is obvious. Because he's not getting anything, so he's interested in getting married. Her guy is getting everything. So why bother getting married?

Women today give themselves to guys so easily and so often, that to the average American male, marriage doesn't have any meaning. After a women gives him sex, and after they give him their time, and relationship... what more can a women give him that would make him interested in getting married?

As for why women don't want to bother getting married, it's usually from the negative experience sleeping around with men who they are not married to. They bounce around from one lover to another, thinking that each one will be dedicated to them. Of course they run off with someone else, so they assume marriage is the same.

In reality, marriage is the best way to have a man be dedicated to you. Not getting married is almost a guarantee he won't be.

And I think this dynamic spills over to marriage too. I think far fewer people would ditch their spouses, if they couldn't find someone else. Why does a man ditch his wife, and divorce her? Because in today's culture he can find someone else by the end of the night.

That is one of the reasons that is often cited for men not getting married. Right up there with having to give up space, loss of friends and what is viewed as loss of power and.........paperwork. Men in the media are depicted as oafs. This is not a valued position. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.


Oddly enough you are wrong on why women choose not to get married and have children. They don't want to get married and have children because the world is awesome and to be explored, they watch others get married because they are afraid of being alone, and there are options. In fact, guys are a dime a dozen if that is what you're looking for. What you have depicted as married life is absolute misery. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.

You know, I heard that claim before too. I've heard some women say exactly what you just said "because the world is awesome and to be explored".

I actually heard that from a friend of mine. She gave me this long list of all the amazing things she wanted to do, and she didn't want to get married because she wanted to do all these things.

So I was curious about this. We have been friends for several years, and we talked openly. So I decided to ask her about this. What have you done so far? I was expecting the tales of her adventures. Instead she talked about getting a job, and working. Where have you gone? Well I don't have time, and I need to keep working at my career. Well how many years have you been doing this? 10 years.

So she has remained single, for the last 10 years, working a steady job, never having the time in 10 years apparently to do anything, hasn't gone anywhere, and all she does is play video games and go to work.

Of course the punchline of this story is, roughly 6 months later after this conversation, she came on saying she got married, and they were going on a trip to the Bahamas. And that has been my experience numerous times. I think I've met only one girl that was single, and actually went everywhere and did stuff. One.

All the rest have had stories like the above. They say they want to be single to do all these amazing things... but then they end up just working a job, living alone, and doing nothing. Just saying.... that's what I've seen.

Really? Of the women I know they travel frequently and do a great many things. Perhaps, it's the job? I work in a pretty demanding field that many people can't do. So, getting away is imperative. Hell, I worked with a nurse that would use all of her vacation time traveling to Central and South America bringing medical supplies and doing the same thing she did at work. Made no sense to me but that was her thang. That and hanging out in New Orleans. I have also met women who are terrified of the interstate. Perhaps it's the person?

Like I said, it's just been my experience. One thing I always do, is ask people if they really are happy. Is this life they now have that they always wanted, really as great as they expected? That's when the truth comes out.

But I accept that you say those you are around are happy with their life choices. Even then I always wonder about such people, because 10 or 20 years down the line, when all the hope of having a real marriage and a real family are past, do they really end up saying it was worth it. When they reach their final years, and they either have no kids, or they spent so much time at work their kids are completely disconnected to them, and they have no husband of course, and most of their friends have move on to their own families.... was that career really worth everything?

It's funny because for decades in American history, it was wives begging their husbands not to be workaholics, and end up at the end of their lives finding no one cared for them.

Now women do the exact same thing, to a larger degree.

It's just like that survey from before showed... single professional women without kids are the most unhappy workers in the entire country.

I have heard some Boomers say they regret not having children in their little 3 paragraphs of Huffington Post crap. So BUT, I have heard an equal amount of regret from people who married and had kids. They will tell you straight up that they were too selfish and should never have taken that on. Men and women equally.

Every so many years somebody kicks out a whose happier survey. Never mind the fact that emotions cannot be quantified.
Older women happier? Yep.
No Groom, No Gloom: Never-Married Women Just as Happy

Single women happier? Yep.
Why single ladies (and men, too!) might be happier

Widows happier? Yep.
Single women are healthier and happier than married women - and it's no surprise

Married women happier? Yep.
Why Married Women Are Happier Than Single Women

According to all of these surveys, everybody is happier than everyone else.

I have no regrets. Of my closest friends, if they have regrets they aren't sharing them.

As you will ... but I don't believe it.

I presume you didn't ACTUALLY read your links ... the first one says that only older women (over 60) are just as happy. In fact, it really makes a strong case for man/woman pairing, unless, of course, you're interpreting it with a preconceived viewpoint.

The second article - written by a life-long single woman - tries mightily to justify her decisions, with really cool facts about their health, not their happiness, and tries to claim that being self-centered and alone somehow makes them "happier". It further claims that the relationship with friends is a suitable substitute for intimacy and caring between a loving couple.

The third claims that widows are "happier" because they have less stress because their husbands are dead and they only have to focus on themselves ... duh! Not happier - less stressed. Of course, they didn't bother to ask the ladies if they were "happier" without their husbands.

In short, you posted a bunch of slanted feminist propaganda that tries to justify a preconceived position, rather than provide a valid proof of an enhanced lifestyle.

More rationalization ....

It's a wonder the world survived with all those women being forced to put up with men. Probably should just take them all out and kill them, huh?

 

[Meane]

Suppose you next say that women who get tired of fucking their husbands have a flawed sexuality. Some obscene "scientists" are trying to find a cure for this "illness".

That foreign wives were better or cleverer is just an illusion, but in some countries marriages are more conservative and the women more automatically begin " filling their duties." They also pretend more to their husbands and only say bad things about then to certain people not all.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Now that the thread has descended into misogyny it is obvious that the OP question has an answer. NO.

Exactly when did honesty get labeled misogyny??

I complained about a few posts and the mods have deleted them. Cleaned up the thread. The point of my post still stands though.
What we have is a bunch of men telling women what they need to be happy. The OP is also a single guy so his coal face knowledge of the marriage situation is a bit questionable.

 

[Disir]

You need only rationalize to yourself ... which, I must admit, your post does a fine job.

Let me look here. Nope, not giving a damn what you think.

Then, I seriously suggest you go back and actually read the posts.

You're trolling. This is me, still not caring.

As you will ... but I don't believe a damn word of it.

That is one of the reasons that is often cited for men not getting married. Right up there with having to give up space, loss of friends and what is viewed as loss of power and.........paperwork. Men in the media are depicted as oafs. This is not a valued position. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.


Oddly enough you are wrong on why women choose not to get married and have children. They don't want to get married and have children because the world is awesome and to be explored, they watch others get married because they are afraid of being alone, and there are options. In fact, guys are a dime a dozen if that is what you're looking for. What you have depicted as married life is absolute misery. There is absolutely nothing to gain from being married.

You know, I heard that claim before too. I've heard some women say exactly what you just said "because the world is awesome and to be explored".

I actually heard that from a friend of mine. She gave me this long list of all the amazing things she wanted to do, and she didn't want to get married because she wanted to do all these things.

So I was curious about this. We have been friends for several years, and we talked openly. So I decided to ask her about this. What have you done so far? I was expecting the tales of her adventures. Instead she talked about getting a job, and working. Where have you gone? Well I don't have time, and I need to keep working at my career. Well how many years have you been doing this? 10 years.

So she has remained single, for the last 10 years, working a steady job, never having the time in 10 years apparently to do anything, hasn't gone anywhere, and all she does is play video games and go to work.

Of course the punchline of this story is, roughly 6 months later after this conversation, she came on saying she got married, and they were going on a trip to the Bahamas. And that has been my experience numerous times. I think I've met only one girl that was single, and actually went everywhere and did stuff. One.

All the rest have had stories like the above. They say they want to be single to do all these amazing things... but then they end up just working a job, living alone, and doing nothing. Just saying.... that's what I've seen.

Really? Of the women I know they travel frequently and do a great many things. Perhaps, it's the job? I work in a pretty demanding field that many people can't do. So, getting away is imperative. Hell, I worked with a nurse that would use all of her vacation time traveling to Central and South America bringing medical supplies and doing the same thing she did at work. Made no sense to me but that was her thang. That and hanging out in New Orleans. I have also met women who are terrified of the interstate. Perhaps it's the person?

Like I said, it's just been my experience. One thing I always do, is ask people if they really are happy. Is this life they now have that they always wanted, really as great as they expected? That's when the truth comes out.

But I accept that you say those you are around are happy with their life choices. Even then I always wonder about such people, because 10 or 20 years down the line, when all the hope of having a real marriage and a real family are past, do they really end up saying it was worth it. When they reach their final years, and they either have no kids, or they spent so much time at work their kids are completely disconnected to them, and they have no husband of course, and most of their friends have move on to their own families.... was that career really worth everything?

It's funny because for decades in American history, it was wives begging their husbands not to be workaholics, and end up at the end of their lives finding no one cared for them.

Now women do the exact same thing, to a larger degree.

It's just like that survey from before showed... single professional women without kids are the most unhappy workers in the entire country.

I have heard some Boomers say they regret not having children in their little 3 paragraphs of Huffington Post crap. So BUT, I have heard an equal amount of regret from people who married and had kids. They will tell you straight up that they were too selfish and should never have taken that on. Men and women equally.

Every so many years somebody kicks out a whose happier survey. Never mind the fact that emotions cannot be quantified.
Older women happier? Yep.
No Groom, No Gloom: Never-Married Women Just as Happy

Single women happier? Yep.
Why single ladies (and men, too!) might be happier

Widows happier? Yep.
Single women are healthier and happier than married women - and it's no surprise

Married women happier? Yep.
Why Married Women Are Happier Than Single Women

According to all of these surveys, everybody is happier than everyone else.

I have no regrets. Of my closest friends, if they have regrets they aren't sharing them.

As you will ... but I don't believe it.

I presume you didn't ACTUALLY read your links ... the first one says that only older women (over 60) are just as happy. In fact, it really makes a strong case for man/woman pairing, unless, of course, you're interpreting it with a preconceived viewpoint.

The second article - written by a life-long single woman - tries mightily to justify her decisions, with really cool facts about their health, not their happiness, and tries to claim that being self-centered and alone somehow makes them "happier". It further claims that the relationship with friends is a suitable substitute for intimacy and caring between a loving couple.

The third claims that widows are "happier" because they have less stress because their husbands are dead and they only have to focus on themselves ... duh! Not happier - less stressed. Of course, they didn't bother to ask the ladies if they were "happier" without their husbands.

In short, you posted a bunch of slanted feminist propaganda that tries to justify a preconceived position, rather than provide a valid proof of an enhanced lifestyle.

More rationalization ....

It's a wonder the world survived with all those women being forced to put up with men. Probably should just take them all out and kill them, huh?

You missed the point. Happiness is an emotion. Emotion can't be quantified. Every few years someone kicks out a survey one way or the other. I can find a survey to say what I want. If you are making the claim that single working women are the most unhappy then I can find one that says the opposite. If you are going to troll at least make an attempt to be .intelligent. Since you have decided to be intentionally obtuse and create issues where none exist, welcome to ignore.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So I've said this before. My observation in the US is that women treat their husbands like crap. I can't count the number of jobs I've had were women co-works routinely vomit how terrible of awful their husbands are.

Alternatively, I had a co-work at my current job I'll call Tim, and his wife Jessica. Jessica is from Napal (not her real name obviously). And you can clearly see the difference. She loves him. I mean really. He's love her, you can tell. I was shocked to find that Tim was in his mid 50s, and she was in her mid 40s. Ironically Tim was married before, which is exactly why he got a wife from Napal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting they slobber all over each other like these idiotic college students. But you can see that even after being married 20 years, they still have something. Its one of the very few times where I saw a version of marriage that actually looks like something a man would want.

But what do we see in western 1st world countries? Women that don't do any of that. They don't want to give their husbands sex. Or time. Or affection. Sometimes not intimacy of any kind.

I happen to be listening to some podcasts, when one host mentioned in passing this article, and I was curious. So I looked it up.

Escorts are urging wives and girlfriends to listen to their men

One woman, who goes under the pseudonym Mrs Robinson, told news.com.au she feels like a “marriage counsellor” and that Australian women are failing to understand the needs of their partners as more and more men are driven to online apps to find intimacy.

“I do see a lot of married men and they’re not getting that intimacy at home, at all,” Mrs Robinson told news.com.au.

“Men are looking to be understood and be heard. They’re looking for that bit of love that they’re obviously missing. I could open up a school to teach women how to be intimate because there are so many out there that are not giving intimacy to their husbands.”

The 58-year-old woman said that 90 per cent of her clients, ranging in age from 20-45, pay $350 for half an hour to engage in a heightened degree of emotional intimacy.

In some cases, they engage in reciprocal sexual pleasure (girlfriend experiences), but in other cases, they won’t have sex at all (companionship experiences).

“There’s definitely more demand for it. I can’t tell you the number of times a client and I haven’t had sex. We may have just sit there and talk, we may have dinner. There’s so many times that you will not have sex. Sometimes there will be a run of it when I think ... ‘wow’.

“It’s not this wild, crazy, hang-from-the-chandeliers porn star experience they want. They just want to be with a girlfriend for an hour. Cuddling, being together, talking, having that intimacy with somebody. I’ve got clients in their 20s who want that. It’s pretty amazing. I’m still in shock over how many young guys are into me. It’s bizarre.”​

Now I don't know about you, but the vast majority of women, you bloom in your 20s, you reach your prime by the age of 30, and from there... over time, the flower fades. This is normal. Right?

Here's a lady almost 60.... and men from 20 to age 45, are coming to her. Some for sex, and many.... just to be held. Just to have someone talk to them. Just to have a companion.

To me this is both fascinating, and expected at the same time. Fascinating because here a women, is telling other women, the whole reason their husbands are unfaithful, isn't because they are bad men, but rather they are bad women. They are being terrible wives.

I was reading an article, supposedly from a Prostitute, who wrote the title "Things I learned about your husband".

One of them was, "He'd rather be with you, but you don't take care of him. So I do". Men cheating on their wives, because their wives don't want to be the lover, and intimate they need. The prostitute doesn't criticize and critique everything he says. She simply supports him and listens to him.

That's why some of these guys are not even getting sex. You women are not doing this for your husbands.

And you starve them out, and then get all angry and bitter, when he cheats, or goes to see an escort? Really?

I posted that thread months ago about mail order brides, and the women here started foaming at the mouth. Now I get why. Those women are giving their husbands what American girls don't, and they end up with happy marriages and American girls end up on Jerry Springer, and Doctor Phil.

What's funny is at the bottom of a different article, a man wrote that everything on there was exactly true. He didn't like going to see the prostitute, but his wife simply didn't want to pay attention to him. Every time he wanted a alone time, she had a headache, or backache, or something ache, or was tired, or busy, or blaw blaw blaw. Finally he figured out it was too hard to be intimate with her, so he goes to an "adult escort" twice a week. He openly says, he'd rather be with his wife. But she doesn't want to be a wife.

I can't help but think about how Christians deal with this, because obviously I'm a Christian (as the sig makes clear). Christians today really suck at teaching this. But the fact is we used to get this.... The puritans used to teach that if a women refuses to provide for her husbands needs, and he cheats... he was not to be punished, but rather the woman was at fault.

No don't get me wrong. If she did provide for him, then it was his fault. A man could be beaten, flogged, or put in stocks if he cheated on his wife. But if the women caused it by starving him out, then no, it's her fault.

This is why marriages fall apart today. Yeah I know there is the occasional abuse, or drug / gambling or other addiction. But the majority I would be willing to bet... is this.

My conclusion to this, I think this is caused by Feminism. I think women today are more interested in their careers, and their own pursuits, and have gotten into their head that they should be able to have it all, and they should not have to do anything to keep their husbands. I've even heard women say "I shouldn't have to...." (insert whatever he needs). And they go to work, and barf all over their co-workers what terrible husbands they have. While they themselves do nothing... put in zero effort to meet their husbands needs.

The Nepalese wife at work last week said... "I am starting to see why men in American don't want to get married".

SO.... any opinions you'd like to add? Clean debate zone. (friendly reminder).

SO.....what I hear you saying is that a woman who gets PAID $350 for a half hour and does not have to take care of the kids, do his laundry, cook his food, listen to him snore or deal with his farting in bed has managed to figure out the secret to intimacy is 24/7 on demand sex. Is that right?

When you say getting paid, I think cost of a wife is millions of dollars over a life time. $350 is nothing. A wife gets my life, my home, my entire wage, my retirement, my investments, my everything. If a wife only cost $350, there would not be a single guy on the face of the Earth.

Anyway....
First off, I'm just reading what other women have written, and commenting on it.

Second, as I said before, these women from other countries seem to be able to meet their husbands need, and do so without complaining.

Are they all superheroines? Or is it a matter of priorities and making time?

Third, again for thousands of years, women have been able to do this.

The one difference between then and now, I would argue is that women because of the feminist movement, all want their own careers and high demand, high stress jobs.

So I gasp that after you spend all day at the office and you are exhausted, then you come home and still have to do all the chores in the home, then you have nothing left for your husband... yeah I get that.

Whose fault is that?

As these ladies in the article said... many of these men are paying them, not even to have sex, but just to have someone to talk to. The biggest need a man wants from a women outside of sex, is simply to have her believe in him, and support him. When he doesn't get that from home, he goes to someone else.

Now getting that intimate need met, naturally leads to close-ness and ultimately sex. That's why most affairs are started not for sexual needs, but for intimacy reasons. It's not because his office assistant had big breasts, or walked around in lingerie at the office.

It's because when he said "I was thinking about doing (x)" she said "Oh really? Tell me about that. That sounds like a great idea".

You know, I can't help but think of my sister. She's got this. When she needs alone time with her husband, she just kicks the kids out. Literally, you all go outside and play. "I don't wanna" Too bad, out. She simply makes time. By the way, she has 6 kids.

But women today don't have the choice to work, most of them. Both incomes are needed to pay the mortgage, etc. I always worked, but my husband lost his job in the crash. I worked two jobs just to keep us above water. I was careful never to be too tired for him, but it was hard coming home to a sink full of dishes, a dinner not made, laundry not done. His feelings were always paramount, but I never felt him pick up the slack for me. Over time I lost faith in him. Whose fault is that? Mine?

Obviously you are not starving him out sexually, or relationally, because you felt that you shouldn't ever have to meet his needs.

Since that doesn't describe you, then no. None of what you describe seems like your fault.

I think the primary thing that I would have done differently, had I been in your shoes.... is I would not have taken the second job.

I would have allowed the house to be foreclosed on (or sold it). I would have moved to an apartment if need be.

Now that sounds completely counter intuitive. But my experience with men that have had the absolute snot beat out of them, by a crash and the loss of a good job... is that they get into this mild but constant depression.

They get their wheels stuck in a deep rut that rolls around in a circle.

And what they really need more than anything else, is to have a crisis that forces them back into action, whether they want to or not. Most of the guys that get caught in this, the moment they get their wheels out of the rut, they take off again.

When you got the second job, in order to overt the foreclosure on the home, you inadvertently removed the best crisis motivation that would have forced him to move out of the rut. Since the crisis was no longer a concern, he just stayed in his stupor from being beat up.

My sister actually had a similar situation when she first got married. My brother in law came back from Iraq. He was not physically injured, but he watched people blown up, had to been through some dangerous situation, and he came back to the US, and just wanted to sit and watch TV.

My sister was working at the time, and basically said she was planning to quit her job, and if he didn't have an income, then they would lose their place. She would move back with mom and dad, and he would just do whatever. When he had a place for her to live, she'd come back. Guess who had a job in a week. And then once he had a job, guess who decided if he has to work, he's going to make some money, and got a better job. And now he's an EMT.

When he was faced with a crisis, he suddenly snapped out of it. And I've heard similar stories from numerous others.

So that is about the only thing I would have suggested. Have an eye-to-eye, come to Jesus meeting, and just have told him, I'm not getting another job, so you either find a way to bring in some income, or I'll move back home until you figure something out on your own. I'll come back when you have a place to live.

She is lucky he didn't eat a bullet.

 

[JoeMoma]

What promotes (most) prostitution?
* Horney Men
* Women that want to make a buck, quick and easy.