"Fingerprint" of Greenland ice melt seen in satellite sea level data

[Billy_Bob]

Can't capture the electricity for later use and heat the surface of the planet at the same time.

Why not? Walk me through it.

Can you lower the albedo of the surface and heat the planet at the same time?

Both of you are right to an extent but both of you are wrong to an extent.

Let me explain:

Downwelling Solar Radiation is not a one stop shopping experience. As the energy passes through our atmosphere it is met with resistance. Clouds, water vapor, dust, etc. Solar arrays are just like particles in they stop a portion of the downwelling solar radiation. Solar panels stop most of the visible spectrum, so they do stop energy from hitting the earth's surface. They do not fully stop the DWSR so the earths surface is still warmed. You also have the panels themselves heating up and that converted energy becomes longer in wavelength. LWIR which will slow the warming but not stop it.

So, both of you are right but both of you a wrong as well.

It is this duplicity in paths to warm objects that many do not understand. One of the main reasons our Global Circulation Models fail is they cannot predict how the Ocean reacts to slight changes in DWSR. The shift that Dr Archibald saw in 2016 is now causing cooling of our oceans. There is a small region of DWSR that penetrates our oceans to depth and causes warming. 0.2um -0.6um. We have seen a 3% shift to longer wave lengths (due to solar dimming- reaction changes on the sun - cooling of the reaction at the surface). This shift has slowed how fast the ENSO can recharge.

You folks are not alone in this. I have many PhD's who still can't grasp this simple concept.

 

[ding]

I'm suggesting you're very stupid if you don't think use of electricity doesn't produce waste heat. You use the term all the time, so I suppose you are also inconsistent with what you post. flip flopper I think it's called, or just.....stupid.

How does electricity heat the surface of the planet? Walk me though it. How does using electricity to perform work heat the surface of the planet?

 

[ding]

Both of you are right to an extent but both of you are wrong to an extent.

Let me explain:

Downwelling Solar Radiation is not a one stop shopping experience. As the energy passes through our atmosphere it is met with resistance. Clouds, water vapor, dust, etc. Solar arrays are just like particles in they stop a portion of the downwelling solar radiation. Solar panels stop most of the visible spectrum, so they do stop energy from hitting the earth's surface. They do not fully stop the DWSR so the earths surface is still warmed. You also have the panels themselves heating up and that converted energy becomes longer in wavelength. LWIR which will slow the warming but not stop it.

So, both of you are right but both of you a wrong as well.

It is this duplicity in paths to warm objects that many do not understand. One of the main reasons our Global Circulation Models fail is they cannot predict how the Ocean reacts to slight changes in DWSR. The shift that Dr Archibald saw in 2016 is now causing cooling of our oceans. There is a small region of DWSR that penetrates our oceans to depth and causes warming. 0.2um -0.6um. We have seen a 3% shift to longer wave lengths (due to solar dimming- reaction changes on the sun - cooling of the reaction at the surface). This shift has slowed how fast the ENSO can recharge.

You folks are not alone in this. I have many PhD's who still can't grasp this simple concept.

According to Todd all photons converted into electricity heat the surface of the planet. That just isn’t true. Which is why neither one of those idiots can explain it.

 

[jc456]

Both of you are right to an extent but both of you are wrong to an extent.

Let me explain:

Downwelling Solar Radiation is not a one stop shopping experience. As the energy passes through our atmosphere it is met with resistance. Clouds, water vapor, dust, etc. Solar arrays are just like particles in they stop a portion of the downwelling solar radiation. Solar panels stop most of the visible spectrum, so they do stop energy from hitting the earth's surface. They do not fully stop the DWSR so the earths surface is still warmed. You also have the panels themselves heating up and that converted energy becomes longer in wavelength. LWIR which will slow the warming but not stop it.

So, both of you are right but both of you a wrong as well.

It is this duplicity in paths to warm objects that many do not understand. One of the main reasons our Global Circulation Models fail is they cannot predict how the Ocean reacts to slight changes in DWSR. The shift that Dr Archibald saw in 2016 is now causing cooling of our oceans. There is a small region of DWSR that penetrates our oceans to depth and causes warming. 0.2um -0.6um. We have seen a 3% shift to longer wave lengths (due to solar dimming- reaction changes on the sun - cooling of the reaction at the surface). This shift has slowed how fast the ENSO can recharge.

You folks are not alone in this. I have many PhD's who still can't grasp this simple concept.

I know when one covers dirt with asphalt or concrete, the asphalt or concrete will be hotter than the dirt that was previously exposed prior to the new material over the dirt. increasing the heat in the area.

and for all of the AGW dumfks, that same asphalt or concrete eliminates the ability to absorb water from rain when it rains. ooops!!!!

 

[Billy_Bob]

According to Todd all photons converted into electricity heat the surface of the planet. That just isn’t true. Which is why neither one of those idiots can explain it.

That is correct. When we look at that point alone. photons excite the ions present in the medium causing a positive current flow. Energy cannot be in two places at once.

 

[jc456]

How does electricity heat the surface of the planet? Walk me though it. How does using electricity to perform work heat the surface of the planet?

walk you through what? you didn't answer my question, does use of electricity produce waste heat? If you say no, I will go grab previous posts where you show that to be true. So answer my question and stop acting like a spoiled karen demofk.

Oh and read post 385

 

[ding]

walk you through what? you didn't answer my question, does use of electricity produce waste heat? If you say no, I will go grab previous posts where you show that to be true. So answer my question and stop acting like a spoiled karen demofk.

Walk me through your silly believe that photons converted into electricity will heat the earth’s surface.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I know when one covers dirt with asphalt or concrete, the asphalt or concrete will be hotter than the dirt that was previously exposed prior to the new material over the dirt.

and for all of the AGW dumfks, that same asphalt or concrete eliminates the ability to absorb water from rain when it rains. ooops!!!!

IN your analogy, the asphalt has a different albedo which allows greater energy capture. this increases the heat it holds. SO, the surface gets hotter, but that heat is transferred to the soil below making it hotter as well. The color and density of the asphalt is what allows it to get hot.

 

[ding]

walk you through what? you didn't answer my question, does use of electricity produce waste heat? If you say no, I will go grab previous posts where you show that to be true. So answer my question and stop acting like a spoiled karen demofk.

Oh and read post 385

Does work performed produce heat, dummy?

 

[ding]

walk you through what? you didn't answer my question, does use of electricity produce waste heat? If you say no, I will go grab previous posts where you show that to be true. So answer my question and stop acting like a spoiled karen demofk.

Oh and read post 385

How does waste heat warm the surface of the planet, dummy?

 

[Billy_Bob]

walk you through what? you didn't answer my question, does use of electricity produce waste heat? If you say no, I will go grab previous posts where you show that to be true. So answer my question and stop acting like a spoiled karen demofk.

Oh and read post 385

Are we arguing that the waste heat generated from the panel is warming the earth? Are we arguing that motors and other heat generating items warm the earth? Yes, this can occur and does occur..

 

[jc456]

IN your analogy, the asphalt has a different albedo which allows greater energy capture. this increases the heat it holds. SO, the surface gets hotter, but that heat is transferred to the soil below making it hotter as well. The color and density of the asphalt is what allows it to get hot.

yep, I never said it didn't get into the dirt below it, I know based on experience the temperature above the asphalt or concrete is hotter than dirt. Probably not sand though, sand can get very warm as well. But cities laced with asphalt and concrete create more heat in the cities.

 

[jc456]

Are we arguing that the waste heat generated from the panel is warming the earth? Are we arguing that motors and other heat generating items warm the earth? Yes, this can occur and does occur..

I know that running cable carrying 100's of amps worth of electricity will indeed warm the earth when there is load on the lines. Adding a panel and running cables to the grid add warmth, yes.

Ever use a vacuum cleaner? ever pull the cord from the outlet after using it and it's warm? added heat

Think there isn't heat coming from my refigerator or freezer?

How about incandescent lights?

 

[ding]

That is correct. When we look at that point alone. photons excite the ions present in the medium causing a positive current flow. Energy cannot be in two places at once.

Maybe you can help them. Does all electricity produce waste heat? What does waste heat actually warm? Is it really the surface of the planet?

 

[Billy_Bob]

I know that running cable carrying 100's of amps worth of electricity will indeed warm the earth when there is load on the lines. Adding a panel and running cables to the grid add warmth, yes.

Ever use a vacuum cleaner? ever pull the cord from the outlet after using it and it's warm? added heat

Think there isn't heat coming from my refigerator or freezer?

How about incandescent lights?

Everything doing work creates waste heat. It is generally LWIR energy, radiated.

why are we arguing over this minuscule amount of energy? It can only warm locally as it is insufficient to warm anything globally.

 

[jc456]

Everything doing work creates waste heat. It is generally LWIR energy, radiated.

why are we arguing over this minuscule amount of energy? It can only warm locally as it is insufficient to warm anything globally.

we aren't, ding is trying to say installing solar panels cools the planet. That's the argument.

 

[ding]

Everything doing work creates waste heat. It is generally LWIR energy, radiated.

why are we arguing over this minuscule amount of energy? It can only warm locally as it is insufficient to warm anything globally.

Walk me through the waste heat of an electric overhead crane? What percentage of the total energy produces heat and what percentage of the total energy performs work. Ball park estimates? I say 90% work and 10% losses. What say you?

 

[ding]

we aren't, ding is trying to say installing solar panels cools the planet. That's the argument.

And a horrible idea in the middle of an ice age. You people keep forgetting that part.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Walk me through the waste heat of an electric overhead crane? What percentage of the total energy produces heat and what percentage of the total energy performs work. Ball park estimates? I say 90% work and 10% losses. What say you?

THats my whole point. the waste heat is insignificant.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I’m glad you backed away from your claim. That was smart of you. Cowardly but smart.

You're funny.