Firefighters Watch As House Burns Down

[Trajan]

It pisses me off that the purveyor of this stupid OP makes an inference that REPUBLICANS are at fault here and that REPUBLICANS would stand around while people burned to death. DemonRats are just flat out disgusting people.

It was an all republican city council that voted the law in. No democrat would vote for people to have to pay a fee.
I am sure glad they didn't have this where I lived when our house caught on fire, especially when that fire was not our fault. My parent's house was saved because the fireman did their job.
We pay property taxes for a reason. And I am glad I live in a country where in most places we can count on the fire department saving our house when it catches on fire.

your point is apt , you paid your property taxes. No matter the vehicle of payment, you paid, he didn't.

How would you feel if your house caught fire and it burned down because the local dept. was busy putting a fire out in someones home who had not paid their taxes, fees etc...?

 

[Cuyo]

You tell me. What would Willow do?

I don't know. You're quite radical in your right wing views. Maybe, just radical enough that you'd say tough shit, he's a dead man. It's in your court, friend.

That's what I thought you'd think. Says a helluva lot more about your moronic ass than it says about me. You dumbtwats actually think Republicans would stand around and let human beings burn to death. Well fucktard I got news for you that's what you assholes do to people. Remember Waco?

Well if you would just answer the question, I wouldn't have to speculate, would I?

So if you acknowledge that you would never let a person die in the same situation, then the rest of your argument is moot. The same rigid free market principles should apply. To concede that they would not apply when a life is at risk is to concede that there are exceptions. For you, that does not include a person's life and worldly belongings being destroyed, but does include the person's life itself. I don't think it's right or proper to let a guys house burn down when you have the means to easily extinguish it. Put the fuckin thing out, then let the lawyers sort out who owes what to whom.

And both within and beyond the scope of this conversation, why do you have so much hate inside you? Who hurt you?

 

[WillowTree]

It pisses me off that the purveyor of this stupid OP makes an inference that REPUBLICANS are at fault here and that REPUBLICANS would stand around while people burned to death. DemonRats are just flat out disgusting people.

It was an all republican city council that voted the law in. No democrat would vote for people to have to pay a fee.
I am sure glad they didn't have this where I lived when our house caught on fire, especially when that fire was not our fault. My parent's house was saved because the fireman did their job.
We pay property taxes for a reason. And I am glad I live in a country where in most places we can count on the fire department saving our house when it catches on fire.

So you think that REPUBLICANS would stand around while people burn to death? What a moron. And it's not a Republican's fault this bozo let his house burn down. All he had to do was play by the rules. He's a moron too.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Rural Tennessee fire sparks conservative ideological debate | The Upshot Yahoo! News - Yahoo! News

Mea culpa. Firefighters actually did standby and watch someone lose their home and allow their animals to die - becasue $75 was not paid in advance. If that is fiscal conservativism, no thanks.
You RWers are more fucked up then even I imagined.

 

[Meister]

This issue of paying a separate fee every year for a specific purpose as fighting fires should have been addressed long before now. It could have if the community made an issue of it, but they didn't, democrats, nor republicans. Having said that....I'm sure all are aware of the system in place. If the firefighters did come out, anyone wonder how many people would have paid that fee next year?

Life isn't fair and never has been, if someone says different...they're lying.

 

[Luissa]

It pisses me off that the purveyor of this stupid OP makes an inference that REPUBLICANS are at fault here and that REPUBLICANS would stand around while people burned to death. DemonRats are just flat out disgusting people.

It was an all republican city council that voted the law in. No democrat would vote for people to have to pay a fee.
I am sure glad they didn't have this where I lived when our house caught on fire, especially when that fire was not our fault. My parent's house was saved because the fireman did their job.
We pay property taxes for a reason. And I am glad I live in a country where in most places we can count on the fire department saving our house when it catches on fire.

your point is apt , you paid your property taxes. No matter the vehicle of payment, you paid, he didn't.

How would you feel if your house caught fire and it burned down because the local dept. was busy putting a fire out in someones home who had not paid their taxes, fees etc...?

It didn't say he didn't pay his property taxes, it said he didn't pay a fee. Which was a dumb idea to begin with. And I would worry about it. If the fire department by my house was busy fighting another fire, there is another one three miles away from my house.

What about people who don't have health insurance and have no money to pay their medical costs, should we let them die if say stabbed, because of this?
We do not live in a third world country. We live in America, where we have people like firemen, to help us at our worst moments.

I have also heard the neighbors house caught on fire or at least part of it in this incident. I would be a little pissed if I was the neighbor. Yeah, they put his fire out, but his house didn't even need to catch on fire and wouldn't have if they had put out the original fire.

 

[Rambunctious]

Wanna know what a conservative only world looks like? Look no further than Obion County, Tennessee:

Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won’t respond, then watches it burn. That’s exactly what happened to a local family tonight. A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.

The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn’t do anything to stop his house from burning. Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay. The mayor said if homeowners don’t pay, they’re out of luck. [...]

We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception. “Anybody that’s not in the city of South Fulton, it’s a service we offer, either they accept it or they don’t,” Mayor David Crocker said.

Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground | WPSD Local 6 - News, Sports, Weather - Paducah KY | Local

As ThinkProgress points out:

A local newspaper further pressed Mayor Crocker about the city’s policy, which has been in place since 1990. Crocker, a Republican who was elected in 2008 and serves with a county commission where every seat is also filled by a Republican, likened the policy to buying auto insurance

Just one prime example of the difference between the way conservatives govern and the way progressives govern.

As TP put it:

One, the conservative vision, believes in the on-your-own society, and informs a policy agenda that primarily serves the well off and privileged sectors of the country. The other vision, the progressive one, believes in an American Dream that works for all people, regardless of their racial, religious, or economic background.

Think Progress Tennessee County’s Subscription-Based Firefighters Watch As Family Home Burns Down

That's the choice we have this november- The conservative fend-for-yourself (besides the companies that ship jobs overseas) choice, or the liberal I-am-my-brothers-keeper choice.

What scares you so much about doing for yourself and being responsible for your life and property. NOTHING IS FREE! Pay up deadbeat or someone will have to pay for ye.

 

[Luissa]

It pisses me off that the purveyor of this stupid OP makes an inference that REPUBLICANS are at fault here and that REPUBLICANS would stand around while people burned to death. DemonRats are just flat out disgusting people.

It was an all republican city council that voted the law in. No democrat would vote for people to have to pay a fee.
I am sure glad they didn't have this where I lived when our house caught on fire, especially when that fire was not our fault. My parent's house was saved because the fireman did their job.
We pay property taxes for a reason. And I am glad I live in a country where in most places we can count on the fire department saving our house when it catches on fire.

So you think that REPUBLICANS would stand around while people burn to death? What a moron. And it's not a Republican's fault this bozo let his house burn down. All he had to do was play by the rules. He's a moron too.

They are the ones who made the rules.

 

[Cuyo]

It was an all republican city council that voted the law in. No democrat would vote for people to have to pay a fee.
I am sure glad they didn't have this where I lived when our house caught on fire, especially when that fire was not our fault. My parent's house was saved because the fireman did their job.
We pay property taxes for a reason. And I am glad I live in a country where in most places we can count on the fire department saving our house when it catches on fire.

your point is apt , you paid your property taxes. No matter the vehicle of payment, you paid, he didn't.

How would you feel if your house caught fire and it burned down because the local dept. was busy putting a fire out in someones home who had not paid their taxes, fees etc...?

It didn't say he didn't pay his property taxes, it said he didn't pay a fee. Which was a dumb idea to begin with. And I would worry about it. If the fire department by my house was busy fighting another fire, there is another one three miles away from my house.

What about people who don't have health insurance and have no money to pay their medical costs, should we let them die if say stabbed, because of this?
We do not live in a third world country. We live in America, where we have people like firemen, to help us at our worst moments.

I have also heard the neighbors house caught on fire or at least part of it in this incident. I would be a little pissed if I was the neighbor. Yeah, they put his fire out, but his house didn't even need to catch on fire and wouldn't have if they had put out the original fire.

Furthermore, when property taxes cover the fire department (the way it usually is and should be), the fire department doesn't deny services when you're behind on your property taxes. Why would they? Letting someones house burn when you can easily put it out is unconscionable!!

 

[JBeukema]

The problem with WC's alternative universe theory is that Cranick doesn't live in the city. The city is not responsible for him except to the extent that he subscribes to particular services it provides to unincorporated areas.

He declined to subscribe.

He forgot.

The guy lost like 4 animals in the fire, along with all of his and his families things. And their house.
Yet you continue to make excuses as to why he deserved it.
As TP wrote:
It has been 28 years since conservative historian Doug Wead first coined the term “compassionate conservative.” It now appears that if any such philosophy ever existed, it has few adherents in the modern conservative movement.

Noone said he 'deserved it'.

 

[2Parties]

These type of actions by government to "punish" people show how screwed up their priorities are and how they waste money. Did it really cost them less to sit and wait than to just put it out? What happens if there is a fire 5 miles away they are responsible for from someone who paid the fee? Do you risk the fire you are currently at spreading to another paying household by leaving, or do you just let the other house burn? If they would have just fought the fire it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[JBeukema]

If my house had a chimney fire and the fire department came out, put the fire out and let me pay the fee afterwards, my thoughts would be "whew! we sure lucked out with that. Can't ever let that happen again cause next time we might not be so lucky" and I'd make damn sure that bill got paid.

This guy just assumed he'd be covered again.

That's the difference between conservative and liberal.

This has everything to do with common sense and nothing to do with political affiliation.

 

[Trajan]

It was an all republican city council that voted the law in. No democrat would vote for people to have to pay a fee.
I am sure glad they didn't have this where I lived when our house caught on fire, especially when that fire was not our fault. My parent's house was saved because the fireman did their job.
We pay property taxes for a reason. And I am glad I live in a country where in most places we can count on the fire department saving our house when it catches on fire.

your point is apt , you paid your property taxes. No matter the vehicle of payment, you paid, he didn't.

How would you feel if your house caught fire and it burned down because the local dept. was busy putting a fire out in someones home who had not paid their taxes, fees etc...?

It didn't say he didn't pay his property taxes, it said he didn't pay a fee. Which was a dumb idea to begin with. And I would worry about it. If the fire department by my house was busy fighting another fire, there is another one three miles away from my house.

What about people who don't have health insurance and have no money to pay their medical costs, should we let them die if say stabbed, because of this?
We do not live in a third world country. We live in America, where we have people like firemen, to help us at our worst moments.

I have also heard the neighbors house caught on fire or at least part of it in this incident. I would be a little pissed if I was the neighbor. Yeah, they put his fire out, but his house didn't even need to catch on fire and wouldn't have if they had put out the original fire.

Yes I k now what you said, thats why I said no matter the vehicle of payment,.....if they take it our of property taxes or they ask for a separate fee, the point is moot, he knew he owed it, he chose to blow it off.

This was not his first time at the rodeo either as it appears they out a fire out in his home 3 years ago though he didn't pay. He knew he didn't pay, he said so. How many times do you think he should get a pass? 1-3-5?

 

[Luissa]

your point is apt , you paid your property taxes. No matter the vehicle of payment, you paid, he didn't.

How would you feel if your house caught fire and it burned down because the local dept. was busy putting a fire out in someones home who had not paid their taxes, fees etc...?

It didn't say he didn't pay his property taxes, it said he didn't pay a fee. Which was a dumb idea to begin with. And I would worry about it. If the fire department by my house was busy fighting another fire, there is another one three miles away from my house.

What about people who don't have health insurance and have no money to pay their medical costs, should we let them die if say stabbed, because of this?
We do not live in a third world country. We live in America, where we have people like firemen, to help us at our worst moments.

I have also heard the neighbors house caught on fire or at least part of it in this incident. I would be a little pissed if I was the neighbor. Yeah, they put his fire out, but his house didn't even need to catch on fire and wouldn't have if they had put out the original fire.

Furthermore, when property taxes cover the fire department (the way it usually is and should be), the fire department doesn't deny services when you're behind on your property taxes. Why would they? Letting someones house burn when you can easily put it out is unconscionable!!

They obviously have property taxes in that county, and I bet they pay for the salaries of those city officials and the Fire Chief. I guess that guy can pay for their salaries, but they cannot allow for the fire department to put out his fire, and allow him to pay his fee within a certain amount of time.
And if they had such a problem with the fee. Why didn't they put out the fire than charge him for the cost of putting out the fire?

 

[NYcarbineer]

We have a volunteer fire department,

but that only works when your town has enough pyromaniacs and guys who get boners over having a big set of lights on the roof of their pickup truck.

 

[Luissa]

We have a volunteer fire department,

but that only works when your town has enough pyromaniacs and guys who get boners over having a big set of lights on the roof of their pickup truck.

There is a volunteer fire department on the plateau above my house, since I am right by the county. They have also worked it out with the city, so if need be, the city will help them when they can't handle a situation.

 

[JBeukema]

I don't know if this has been brought up, I haven't read all the posts, but couldn't they have put out the fire and then billed him? It wouldn't have to be just the $75 or whatever the fee is, they could either come up with a cost for putting out the fire, or charge him $75 for every year he was in residence and didn't pay, whatever.

They charge $500 to come out. The $75 is a subscription to the service. They have no legal way of making you pay and ~1/2 of the people who use the service actually pay the recommended charge.

 

[Charles_Main]

We have a volunteer fire department,

but that only works when your town has enough pyromaniacs and guys who get boners over having a big set of lights on the roof of their pickup truck.

Wow way to insult those who risk their lives to save others. FOR FREE.

I have a good Friend who is Volunteer fire. He is not a pyromaniac, or a guy who gets boners for lights, his is a guy who lost his home to a house fire as a kid, and ever since wanted to help fight fire.

Many of them are the same way.

Do a poll of Firemen and you will find a large % of them suffered a fire in their past.

 

[JBeukema]

I find it amazing that some defend this slickster who thought he could get the same service as those who pay.

Indicative of personal values, IMO.

Who's defending him?


So far I've heard two major lines of response:

-Tough shit, shoulda payed

and

-Shouldn't be able to opt out


Everyone's agreed he's an idiot.

And it begs the question, how much disregard does one deserve for being an idiot?

I'm waiting for an answer one way or the other from the Cons who say the fire department was right - Do you, or do you not, put the fire out if the man was trapped inside?

[not holding my breath for response]

If there's someone inside? Save the person inside then punch the owner in the mouth and break a few of his ribs for not bothering to protect his family.

 

[Charles_Main]

Personally what I would have done, is put the fire out, then send him a bill for the entire cost, and sue him if he didn't pay.

But that is just me.